random topic about eltoo factories, LN and cores lack of bitcoin care

[franky1]

im writing this here because eltoo is not a bitcoin feature. its not even an blockchain so doesnt belong in the bitcoin or altcoin section. its a feature for a separate non blockchain network that will be used for multiple coins offchain.

i also going to moderate it purely to delete any anal people that just want to sling mud(insult) because of whatever PR bias they have to defend a social group, rather than actually talk about the topic.
but dont fear. if you actually reply to talk about the issue. without slinging insults you'll be fine

personal note
windfury ill give you a bit more respect than doomad as you dont sling insults in every post for drama entertainment
as for research. try google, not the boys club i see you keep conversing and echo chambering in. after all. if you havnt learned about eltoo yet, it seems they are not teaching you

now lets begin
first step down the factory rabbit hole
https://blockstream.com/2018/04/30/eltoo-next-lightning.html
"

Beyond Lightning
One such multiparty off-chain contract is the channel factories presented by Burchert et al. as a scalable way to fund any number of payment channels on top of a single on-chain transaction and to rebalance or reallocate them dynamically without ever touching the blockchain.

"

this is where it is saying that its adding another layer away from the onchain transaction
EG you dont fund a channel direct. you fund a factory onchain... then OFFCHAIN(emphasis) the factory funds a channel. and the channels settlement does not close back onchain. but the settlement returns funds back to a factory.

you can imagine it like funding fortknox with gold. and locking gold to fortknox. and then let fortknox hand out paper promissory notes (offchain tx) to individual channels (accounts).. then the accounts dont close by handing gold to the user, but handing the prommissory note back to the factory. where by the factory then gives new promissory notes to new channels(accounts) to avoid broadcasting back to the blockchain

the link to Burchert et al goes into more detail. but the funny part is the first opening paragraph. is the obvious bitcoin is broke cant scale wont scale mantra.. but if you actually care about bitcoin the network instead of core the monarchy. you will know why it cant scale. because core halted scaling onchain. (halting onchain to make lightning, to then have lightning supporters say the halted scaling means lightning is needed more(thats like starving your kid so you can eat then blaming your kid for not growing))

also i am providing links from the side i detest for good reason, just to show it the information is theirs and not some information gleamed from some social drama group. or a group that some people call the core opposer's.. that way it cant be said that i am linking information that is just biased against the eltoo/core crowd
(if it comes from the horses mouth. you cant say 'nah ignore it its just an ass(donkey) talking)

[franky1]

ok further down the rabbit hole. this can lead to 2 debates.
1, about how the team i detest so much self imposed restrictions to then self inflict that it cant scale...(facepalm)
2. discussing eltoo

so quick point about 1
the links in previous post start with the standard mantra of onchain cant scale.. yet blockchains actually have no technical limit. the only limit is that of what devs impose on a blockchain for their personal reasons.
in an day and age where data storage of 256gb is smaller than a postage stamp. and that there are multiple techniques of blockchain validation that dont actually need entire communities to validate one strand of chain(regional chains/sidechains) there are many ways to expand onchain. literally thousands of ways. but to say blockchains cant. and instead resort to non community consensus auditing entirely.. is the foolish notion

as for point 2.
once funds are locked into a factory. a 12decimal 'micropayment' is created. this in short is no longer a standard 'bitcoin' understandable tx as it has 12 decimals. and so becomes its own separate 'token' network. and because its not settled under the terms of bitcoin consensus. its not a bitcoin. its just a promise that A owes B and B owes A. with the factory managing it (as you read please do try reading with an unbiased bitcoin care hat on. and not a core defense league hat on)

you will read that they propose the factory (ill hearby refer to as fortknox and continue using bank analogies to simply the understand) is run by 20 users who collaberate.

Funds are committed to a group of other users instead of a single partner and can be moved between channels with just a few messages inside this collaborating group, which reduces the risk, as
an unprofitable connection can be quickly dissolved to form a better connection
with another partner. By hiding the channels from the blockchain, a reduction
in blockchain space usage and thus the cost of channels is achieved. For a group
of 20 nodes with 100 channels in between them,

the 20 node group (fortknox).. well its written above no need to repeat myself

the 100 channels. think of them as regional banks(hubs) which then like a tree. or as we call it in the UK banking terms then split off to bank branches. before then splitting into individual accounts(channels)..
the link to the burchart pdf calls it "sub channels" instead of regional banks.. but you get the idea.. if not.. ill highlight

3.5  Higher Order Systems
With larger groups, the coordination work required to sign a new allocation
rises, but it is advantageous to create large groups to save blockchain space and
have more partners for subchannels. It is possible to extend the system to more
layers, each layer having less parties per shared account,

notice how they talk about this group from a TOP-down topology rather than a bottom up
EG bank institution group splitting out to local bankers who split out to users level channels.

rather than user channel level creating a fixed route and then forming a hub to reduce channels of a route