Lost my "12 Word Phrase / Seed" for coinbase commerce - Need help

[ElPresidente2]

Dear forum visitors,
I really need your help. I hope somebody can give me some advice.


Ive got a coinbase-commerce account. When I registered to this services they gave me a 12 word phrase to create the wallets.
At the start I just used "electrum" wallet to receive bitcoin. This wallet still exists and is usable (I have access to my BTC at coinbase commerce).

BUT
I also received some ETH money and now wanted to withdraw this money. The problem is that I dont have the 12 word phrase anymore and I cannot withdraw the money without it.


Coinbase commerce delivers one "12 word phrase" identical for all crypto currencys they accept for me at registration. My idea was that I could gain access to the ETH coin due my xpriv / xpub key, that I could gain from the btc wallet file, which I still have access to.
The weird thing is that "electrum" offers a method to read out my "seed / 12 word phrase" but for this wallet its "greyed out". Even in the wallet file the line called "seed: ......." isnt existing.
BUT the wallet is working. I could transfer my BTCs from it to another wallet and I still receive new payments there successfully. Its not "readonly".


My question now is:
If coinbase delivers the same mnemonic seed (12 word phrase) for alle currencys (ETH, BTC, BTC-Cash, LTC) could there be a chance, that even the private (WIF-Key) could be the same and could be used for other currencys as well ?

Is it possible to generate a ETHEREUM private key that I could use in JAXX to transfer the money from this btc wallet key ?




PS: Coinbase Support told me they cannot help me, because they dont save the "private sentence / 12 word sentence / security sentence".

[TheBeardedBaby]

I'm not an expert but if you go into Electrum (it's not clear if you have access to it or only to your wallet trough coinbase)and choose from the menu Wallet>Seed, and you enter your password you should have access to the seed again.

I guess you have read trough this but still :
https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comments/91d9o5/coinbase_commerce_lost_recovery_phrase_have/

[ElPresidente2]

That would be easy...

in my case the field "seed" is greyed out

[AdolfinWolf]

That would be easy...

in my case the field "seed" is greyed out

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to do.

At the start I just used "electrum" wallet to receive bitcoin. This wallet still exists and is usable (I have access to my BTC at coinbase commerce).

Did you download and use electrum externally, or is it implemented IN "Coinbase Commerce"? I'm rather confused since you first mention you use Electrum, and then say you still have all your bitcoin in "Coinbase Commerce".
Or did you "import" that seed into electrum, and then forgot what the seed was exactly, is that it?

The weird thing is that "electrum" offers a method to read out my "seed / 12 word phrase" but for this wallet its "greyed out". Even in the wallet file the line called "seed: ......." isnt existing.
BUT the wallet is working. I could transfer my BTCs from it to another wallet and I still receive new payments there successfully. Its not "readonly".

How did you create this electrum wallet in the first place? Did you import the keys or the seed?

If coinbase delivers the same mnemonic seed (12 word phrase) for alle currencys (ETH, BTC, BTC-Cash, LTC) could there be a chance, that even the private (WIF-Key) could be the same and could be used for other currencys as well ?

Yes. LTC & BTC-Cash are both "forks" of Bitcoin. (Well LTC isn't really, a fork i think, but it's basically a copy of BTC too.), and thus they work the exact same way as BTC.

Ethereum also uses SECP256K1. Which means that you can use a "BTC" generated private key to generate an ethereum adress as well.
See https://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/6520/can-i-use-the-same-private-key-for-ethereum-and-bitcoin

But if that key will actually have any balance.. I'm not so sure. That seems pretty unlikely.


EDIT:

I just tried the following; I generated a extended private key using https://iancoleman.io/bip39/.

Code:

xprvA14zZuN9cNGz4p7csu5mgkiwHAZf55NHeAFwihowKfHvkv5GHhjxejpLRgiLqH4us3sEXy7D3h6TMHtQ6Mc5nxWttQD4r98susQzdQsVg9K

I then imported the xprv key into https://www.mobilefish.com/download/ethereum/hd_wallet.html (DO NOT DO THIS WITH YOUR ACTUAL KEYS, ALWAYS CHECK THE SOFTWARE YOU'RE USING!)
Which gives the following *first* public key;

Code:

Public key: 249536cfb9a2629e98c65f6f240e53e0cc1e986a8606a75f0081512895443aea273176ef5e40702d87447f89cb87e1cd959ca7e30682ffdc67d6b8b95805cc39

Which if you "decode" the first private key in https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

Code:

Kxepdb6GhDUSxrGeASofQYY4mahVSgE9YcfW3CjBiutHu1L6HTeU

Using https://iancoleman.io/bitcoin-key-compression/

Gives;

Code:

04249536cfb9a2629e98c65f6f240e53e0cc1e986a8606a75f0081512895443aea273176ef5e40702d87447f89cb87e1cd959ca7e30682ffdc67d6b8b95805cc39

Is the same? So yeah, if you have a XPRV key, you should be able to generate your ethereum adress from that.

[TheBeardedBaby]

That would be easy...

in my case the field "seed" is greyed out

Doesn't sound good, I was thinking that if you have your private keys and you have the password should be possible to generate the seed from the private key (the private key is generated from the seed).

See here :

i don't see anyone mentioning this but it doesn't work the other way around! meaning you can not create a seed from a private key. instead you create a seed then get different private keys from that seed. it is an Hierarchy after all.

It was actually mentioned in the very first reply (2nd post)

It is not possible to generate seed out of private key, because private keys are generate from the seed.

However, theoretically, you CAN actually generate a seed from a private key as, in their simplistic form, both are simply large numbers... so there is no reason you couldn't use a private key to make a seed. It just probably isn't advised


Long geeky example of converting a 32 byte hex to a mnemonic string:

Private Key (WIF): Kx45GeUBSMPReYQwgXiKhG9FzNXrnCeutJp4yjTd5kKxCitadm3C
Private Key (HEX): 18E14A7B6A307F426A94F8114701E7C8E774E7F9A47E2C2035DB29A206321725

The HEX = 32 bytes = 256 bits (max allowed ENT for BIP39 as per the spec), so we can just use the HEX as as our ENT.

We also need to calculate the checksum as the first ENT/32 bits of the SHA-256 of the ENT.

SHA-256(ENT): 547E964D2262DFCF5C03DA93F54AC0FE66B2856240F8A70AB0C582DE5860D062 => first 8 bits = first byte => "54" => 0101 0100

ENT + CS = 0001 1000 1110 0001 0100 1010 0111 1011 0110 1010 0011 0000 0111 1111 0100 0010 0110 1010 1001 0100 1111 1000 0001 0001 0100 0111 0000 0001 1110 0111 1100 1000 1110 0111 0111 0100 1110 0111 1111 1001 1010 0100 0111 1110 0010 1100 0010 0000 0011 0101 1101 1011 0010 1001 1010 0010 0000 0110 0011 0010 0001 0111 0010 0101 0101 0100

As per the BIP39 spec, we slice it up into 11 bit chunks and convert to words from the BIP39 wordlist

Code:

word 1 : 00011000111 -> 199  -> body
word 2 : 00001010010 -> 82   -> apart
word 3 : 10011110110 -> 1270 -> paddle
word 4 : 11010100011 -> 1699 -> stamp
word 5 : 00000111111 -> 63   -> among
word 6 : 10100001001 -> 1289 -> patrol
word 7 : 10101010010 -> 1362 -> prevent 
word 8 : 10011111000 -> 1272 -> pair
word 9 : 00010001010 -> 138  -> bacon
word 10: 00111000000 -> 448  -> day
word 11: 01111001111 -> 975  -> ketchup
word 12: 10010001110 -> 1166 -> mushroom
word 13: 01110111010 -> 954  -> jar
word 14: 01110011111 -> 927  -> initial
word 15: 11100110100 -> 1844 -> track
word 16: 10001111110 -> 1150 -> more
word 17: 00101100001 -> 353  -> club
word 18: 00000001101 -> 13   -> accuse
word 19: 01110110110 -> 950  -> item
word 20: 01010011010 -> 666  -> fashion
word 21: 00100000011 -> 259  -> call
word 22: 00011001000 -> 200  -> boil
word 23: 01011100100 -> 740  -> frame
word 24: 10101010100 -> 1364 -> pride

Seed Mnemonic: body apart paddle stamp among patrol prevent pair bacon day ketchup mushroom jar initial track more club accuse item fashion call boil frame pride

[ElPresidente2]

That would be easy...

in my case the field "seed" is greyed out

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to do.

In "electrum" you can show up your "seed" by clicking on "wallet" / "seed". Theres a simple option for that. But in my case the seed wasnt saved in wallet file, so electrum just shows me a "greyed out" option for showing the seed / i cant use this easy method.

At the start I just used "electrum" wallet to receive bitcoin. This wallet still exists and is usable (I have access to my BTC at coinbase commerce).

Did you download and use electrum externally, or is it implemented IN "Coinbase Commerce"? I'm rather confused since you first mention you use Electrum, and then say you still have all your bitcoin in "Coinbase Commerce".

I installed electrum localy on my pc. Coinbase is just giving you the seed directly in the process of registration, nothing else and you can use the seed to connect by any wallet service to this money wallet created by coinbase for you. Theyre not offering a wallet service on coinbase commerce. Coinbase commerce does a read only check of my balance of my wallets, nothing else.  I think they only save the public-key for that. You can do payouts directly in your userinterface at coinbase commerce BUT you need the seed. If you do so you are asked for the 12 word security seed phrase. Months ago I combinend my local electrum wallet with the seed phrase and till today I can receive and spend my bitcoin. Yesterday I send an amount to another wallet. Thats still possible. But without the seed I cannot get in contact with my other currency money, which for I didnt setup a wallet for ETH with the seed, when I was still able to. BTW: You only get one seed for all currency you can accept with coinbase commerce. Theyre all the same. Months ago I just activated my BTC electrum wallet. Didnt tought of the point that electrum wont show me the seed again, if it would be nessecary later again. I used electrum some times before, and I was used to it that its showing the seed by the option menu. But unluckly like I am, ... this time this didnt worked. Seed wasnt saved in the wallet file, but wallet is working (Thats my hope )

Or did you "import" that seed into electrum, and then forgot what the seed was exactly, is that it?


YES exactly. I lost the phrase, but still got full access to one of my wallets.

The weird thing is that "electrum" offers a method to read out my "seed / 12 word phrase" but for this wallet its "greyed out". Even in the wallet file the line called "seed: ......." isnt existing.
BUT the wallet is working. I could transfer my BTCs from it to another wallet and I still receive new payments there successfully. Its not "readonly".

How did you create this electrum wallet in the first place? Did you import the keys or the seed?

I imported the seed (12 word phrase) given by coinbase

If coinbase delivers the same mnemonic seed (12 word phrase) for alle currencys (ETH, BTC, BTC-Cash, LTC) could there be a chance, that even the private (WIF-Key) could be the same and could be used for other currencys as well ?

Yes. LTC & BTC-Cash are both "forks" of Bitcoin. (Well LTC isn't really, a fork i think, but it's basically a copy of BTC too.), and thus they work the exact same way as BTC.

Ethereum also uses SECP256K1. Which means that you can use a "BTC" generated private key to generate an ethereum adress as well.
See https://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/6520/can-i-use-the-same-private-key-for-ethereum-and-bitcoin

But if that key will actually have any balance.. I'm not so sure. That seems pretty unlikely.


EDIT:

I just tried the following; I generated a extended private key using https://iancoleman.io/bip39/.

Code:

xprvA14zZuN9cNGz4p7csu5mgkiwHAZf55NHeAFwihowKfHvkv5GHhjxejpLRgiLqH4us3sEXy7D3h6TMHtQ6Mc5nxWttQD4r98susQzdQsVg9K

>> My key is in bip32 (I got this information our of my wallet-file). Does that matter ? I used this website http://bip32.org/ to decode the xprv key from the wallet file to a shorter one.

I then imported the xprv key into https://www.mobilefish.com/download/ethereum/hd_wallet.html (DO NOT DO THIS WITH YOUR ACTUAL KEYS, ALWAYS CHECK THE SOFTWARE YOU'RE USING!)
Which gives the following *first* public key;

Code:

Public key: 249536cfb9a2629e98c65f6f240e53e0cc1e986a8606a75f0081512895443aea273176ef5e40702d87447f89cb87e1cd959ca7e30682ffdc67d6b8b95805cc39

Which if you "decode" the first private key in https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

Code:

Kxepdb6GhDUSxrGeASofQYY4mahVSgE9YcfW3CjBiutHu1L6HTeU

Using https://iancoleman.io/bitcoin-key-compression/

Gives;

Code:

04249536cfb9a2629e98c65f6f240e53e0cc1e986a8606a75f0081512895443aea273176ef5e40702d87447f89cb87e1cd959ca7e30682ffdc67d6b8b95805cc39

Is the same? So yeah, if you have a XPRV key, you should be able to generate your ethereum adress from that.

[AdolfinWolf]

>> My key is in bip32 (I got this information our of my wallet-file). Does that matter ? I used this website http://bip32.org/ to decode the xprv key from the wallet file to a shorter one.

Don't use such sites ever again when dealing with private keys that may or may not have actual balance.. http://bip32.org/ might be open source, but that doesn't mean that it is safe. It doesn't even have HTTPS.

What you can try is the following: (Emphasise on try , as i highly doubt that this will work)

Download this library: https://github.com/ethereumjs/ethereumjs-wallet

put the extended bip32 privkey in there and generate a couple of private keys + their corresponding adresses. Depending on the derivation method used by coinbase, you might find your balance. It's worth a try.

-snip-

Would that also be possible with just an xprv? I don't think OP has any "normal" private keys. (Forgive my ignorance here, just wondering.  )

[TheBeardedBaby]

~
Would that also be possible with just an xprv? I don't think OP has any "normal" private keys. (Forgive my ignorance here, just wondering.  )

Unfortunately I have no idea as I'm not so advanced. I hope someone can give a bit more info about the case.
It's also interesting for me.

[HCP]

The issue with using a "non Electrum" 12 word seed mnemonic in Electrum... is that you need to select the "BIP39 seed" option. When you do this... Electrum DOES NOT save an encrypted copy of the seed mnemonic into the wallet file like it does when you create a default Electrum seed (which will be non BIP39 compatible).

What Electrum does is convert the BIP39 seed mnemonic into an "xprv" and it will save that xprv into the wallet file... this is why the "seed" option is greyed out in Electrum if you're using imported seed mnemonics.

However, it might be possible to use that xprv to derive the private keys needed to get access to the ETH. Note that this is likely to be quite a fiddly process... probably not going to be a "plug and play" quick import into a wallet type exercise and will likely require some knowledge of derivation paths used by Coinbase to derive the ETH private keys/addresses etc.

What you definitely WILL NOT be able to do, is to convert the xprv back into the original seed mnemonic... it's just not possible due to the use of "one-way" hashing functions etc.

[ElPresidente2]

Hello,

2 years later my lost ETH are worth 13000 EUR (2018 it was 800 EUR) and my will to get them back is back again either.

https://i.ibb.co/557mJKr/Bildschirmfoto-2021-05-15-um-09-24-07.png

Some of you had nice ideas, but I dont think I am able to handle this alone. Is there anyone that would help me for a reward ?
I pay a reward of 1000 EUR if its successfull to get them back to the one, who helped me out.

What I got at this moment:

-> Full access to coinbase commerce account (Password, 2FA)
-> A full working electrum wallet that is combinend with that coinbase commerce account, but which is not showing the seed due to the option is grayed out. I am stillable to transfer my coinbase commerce btc amounts with that.
https://i.ibb.co/S3SGPjh/Bildschirmfoto-2021-05-15-um-09-26-59.png

-> Access to stored wallet file
-> XPRV and XPUB in bip32 generated from electrum out of my seed in 2018
-> A list of exported private keys from electrum
-> Infos about the transactions generating the ETH, which seem to be lost due to missing seed phrase
https://etherscan.io/tx/0x0c8785c60993e65fdff9ca4d7ab041551226c9d2ff147671b6a5c056cc581b35
https://etherscan.io/tx/0x36bef58f1708c9b22f1b3883c9c2d8a8654d01f75c49d0c56d500c1755d3047c

What I do not have:
-> The seed (12 words)


Is there any way to get this done ? I only need to transfer the money out of those two eth transactions to a coinbase account to sell the eth there.


Regards
Tim

[HCP]

Is there any way to get this done ? I only need to transfer the money out of those two eth transactions to a coinbase account to sell the eth there.

As far as I can tell... the problem you're going to run into is that the "xprv" that you have access to in the Electrum wallet is going to be an "Account Extended Private Key" derived from your 12 word seed... and not the actual BIP32 "root key".

This means that the derivation path for this extended key will be the equivalent of the BTC derivation path of m/44'/0'/0' (or m/49'/0'/0' or m/84'/0'/0', depending on if it's using Legacy, Nested Segwit or Native Segwit respectively).

Now, according to this post by "coinbasesupport" on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comments/i5sl3b/mods_is_coinbase_commerce_bip39_bip44_complaint/g7x6vnp/

...
For ETH & ERC20 tokens, Coinbase Commerce has implemented a forwarding machinery, ensuring that all payments eventually end up at m/44'/60'/0'/0/0.

It would seem that the ETH (and ERC20 token) payments eventually end up in the address derived at m/44'/60'/0'/0/0


As these derivation paths are all hardened, you cannot derive the m/44'/60'/0'/0/0 address starting from the m/44'/0'/0' derivation path that the extended private key stored in the Electrum wallet represents.


TLDR; There is simply no way you can get from "what you have" to "what you need"