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Author Topic: @theymos please change the ban appeal message.  (Read 385 times)
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October 28, 2018, 05:33:05 AM
Last edit: October 28, 2018, 06:06:29 AM by TMAN
Merited by Foxpup (3), Vod (2), AT101ET (1), iasenko (1), S_Therapist (1)
 #1

As the forum is taking a strong stance against copypasta and all the other shady shit people are getting banned for, can you please do us all a solid and change the ban message.

What is the point of saying people can appeal and that it is ok to discuss the ban in meta? Also, if someone is banned for copypasta - why not tell them that in the ban message? it cant be too hard to add  a small note with the ban explaining that the thieving pricks and they are not welcome here.

Edit: removed pajeet as this is actually a serious issue and would benefit the forum.


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October 28, 2018, 05:56:56 AM
 #2


What is the point of saying Pajeets can appeal and that it is ok to discuss the ban in meta? Also, if someone is banned for copypasta - why not tell them that in the ban message? it cant be too hard to add  a small note with the ban explaining that the thieving pricks and they are not welcome here.
Even when a criminal is caught in the act of stealing,he/she is still allowed a fair trial in the court of law,and called a suspect until proven guilty by the law...

If copy/pasters/plagiarist were simply ousted from the forum without an appeal message/a thread to discuss about their ban
It wouldn't go down well with the forum as it'll be viewed for it's highhandedness and unwelcoming nature..
And these cheaters would moan about being unfairly treated by the forum
So it's much more healthy to give them a fair trial and still prove to them in the thread created here that they deserved their ban..

And considering that no one wins the appeal against a ban, I guess we shouldn't worry much about It, as they'll still be told they aren't welcome here.
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October 28, 2018, 05:57:59 AM
Merited by Foxpup (4)
 #3

Yeah, the message should be changed and the contact email should be removed if it's not being monitored at all (or hire someone to start monitoring it). There are probably people who email it for many months expecting an answer and it's both futile and unfair to them to keep them hanging, and then it just causes more spam in Meta when they ask there. At the very least we could change the warning to something like You have been banned for breaking the rules. This is usually for copy and pasting content or spreading malware, but please see the full rules here to check what you may have been banned for. If you wish to appeal you can do so in Meta, but bans for copy and pasting are permanent. Or something like that. As I've suggested before having a button that issues the ban and gives the reason automatically as copy and pasting would also be solve this and probably shouldn't be too difficult to implement.  

What is the point of saying Pajeets can appeal and that it is ok to discuss the ban in meta? Also, if someone is banned for copypasta - why not tell them that in the ban message? it cant be too hard to add  a small note with the ban explaining that the thieving pricks and they are not welcome here.
Even when a criminal is caught in the act of stealing,he/she is still allowed a fair trial in the court of law,and called a suspect until proven guilty by the law...

This isn't a court of law and copy and pasting is an open and shut case.

If copy/pasters/plagiarist were simply ousted from the forum without an appeal message/a thread to discuss about their ban

I don't agree with the op's language he chose but the ban message needs to be changed. At the moment permabanned users usually don't know or aren't 100% sure what they've been banned for (or think there might have been a mistake then can weasel out on). The answer to these threads is always the same though: You're permabanned for copy and pasting and no it won't be removed, so it's just a waste of everybody's time when we have to keep saying this.

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October 28, 2018, 06:04:52 AM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #4

Yeah, the message should be changed and the contact email should be removed if it's not being monitored at all (or hire someone to start monitoring it). There are probably people who email it for many months expecting an answer and it's both futile and unfair to them to keep them hanging, and then it just causes more spam in Meta when they ask there. At the very least we could change the warning to something like You have been banned for breaking the rules. This is usually for copy and pasting content or spreading malware, bur please see the full rules here to check what you may have been banned for. If you wish to appeal you can do so in Meta but bans for copy and pasting are permanent. Or something like that. As I've suggested before having a button that issues the ban and gives the reason automatically as copy and pasting would also be solve this and probably shouldn't be too difficult to implement.  

We could also have a sticky thread for Ban appeals if you must give them a chance to appeal, Add a link in the message to 1 thread, change the message to say " you are only allowed to appeal your ban here xxx any posting outside of this thread will equate to ban evasion.

It is just boring having to read the same thing over and over and I am seriously worried about Suchmoon's health - Alcoholism is a worrying problem and unless you act Suchmoon will be Drinking from morning to night! can you really look in the mirror and be happy that you are making a cool member of this forum drink so much?

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October 28, 2018, 06:06:17 AM
 #5

As the forum is taking a strong stance against copypasta and all the other shady shit people are getting banned for, can you please do us all a solid and change the ban message.

One of the reasons you have gotten that idea that the forum has taken a strong stance against pligarizers and other rule breakers it's cause of the multiple appeals we see daily, it would also serve as a deterrent to others users, a sort of public execution to show the repercussions for breaking forum rules.

I support removing the email part of it truly is non functioning.
It costs moderators nothing to reply to a user with the reason, as some sometimes claim to be oblivious of what or where the copy pasted.
But everyone has a right to appeal, the fact that one user has won such an appeal shows that though rarely there can be flaws, and it would be unfair to the next one user among the thousands.

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October 28, 2018, 06:07:34 AM
 #6

I don't agree with the op's language

Edited the OP - Serious message so you are right I might as well be a grown up about it!

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October 28, 2018, 06:12:53 AM
 #7

As I've suggested before having a button that issues the ban and gives the reason automatically as copy and pasting would also be solve this and probably shouldn't be too difficult to implement.

I think that if the ban message would also contain a link to the post with violation then most of the users will not be asking in Meta about why their profiles were banned.

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October 28, 2018, 06:25:45 AM
 #8

We could also have a sticky thread for Ban appeals if you must give them a chance to appeal, Add a link in the message to 1 thread, change the message to say " you are only allowed to appeal your ban here xxx any posting outside of this thread will equate to ban evasion.

I wouldn't be against having a sticky for appeals of which they are only allowed to post in. It would clean Meta up and some people in the past have also tried to bend the rules on technicalities and just started posting in any threads they could in Meta because they're 'technically' only allowed to post in Meta so they'd post in threads that didn't concern them whilst they essentially evaded their ban.

It costs moderators nothing to reply to a user with the reason, as some sometimes claim to be oblivious of what or where the copy pasted.

It costs time and energy which equals money, and that's probably why the current email isn't monitored or replied to as theymos doesn't have time. If we changed the message and appeal process then this would cut down on the need to even address the majority of cases and save everybodies time.

But everyone has a right to appeal, the fact that one user has won such an appeal shows that though rarely there can be flaws, and it would be unfair to the next one user among the thousands.

It's pointless even appealing a permaban in the current system. If they're told what they were banned for and that it's permanent then most except the truly desperate probably wouldn't even bother trying.

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October 28, 2018, 06:32:08 AM
Last edit: October 28, 2018, 07:13:12 AM by S_Therapist
 #9

Agreed with OP. All the copypasta bans are valid. So, there is no mean of letting them apeal once again = flood in meta = more loads on mods.
I had also shared an idea previously. We can simply add a banlog where reason behind the ban will be mentioned.

Sometimes there are exceptions.
I missed a word "Almost"
Thank you for the correction.

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October 28, 2018, 06:36:18 AM
 #10

Quote from: hilariousetc link=topic=5058600.msg47344729#msg47344729
It's pointless even appealing a permaban in the current system. If they're told what they were banned for and that it's permanent then most except the truly desperate probably wouldn't even bother trying.
90% of banned users know the real reason why they were banned, they obviously Knew when they tried to cheat the system by copy and pasting in the hope of getting unnoticed,but when eventually caught and banned still make an appeal here in meta about their ban

So what's to say that telling them the obvious reason which they already know would derail them from making redundant threads about the ban,that doesn't just yield anything

Whichever way the ban message appears,banned users would still make threads about their ban
Only if the rules of ban appeal is removed,and any user who post about a ban with his/her alts would get banned immediately
That will end the whole furore
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October 28, 2018, 06:50:49 AM
Last edit: October 28, 2018, 05:35:52 PM by CryptopreneurBrainboss
 #11

What is the point of saying people can appeal and that it is ok to discuss the ban in meta?
For users who still feels they have a chance to appeal, I feel this will be the best option
"New Child Board for banned users" I also have some additional suggestion. I notice all members who started the topic on ban accounts are new members and that can only mean as a ban user you lose the privileges to start topics or rely on topics so the only option is to create a new account to appeal your case. I believe this isn't the best solution since most users get banned and most times don't know why. So in addition to creating a separate child board for banned users, they should also have the privileges of using their old account to appeal their cases only on the child board section. this will prevent the amount of alt account created on the forum.

Edited:
Sometimes there are exceptions.
After investigation, and with help from the rest of the mod team, I've determined that inbizin = bitkoinguru$$$. He created that blog post (registering the domain in June) and then made that post in Meta in order to frame you. The moderator who actually did the banning was not a Russian moderator, but was acting upon what seemed to be a clear case of plagiarism. The thought of this type of attack had occurred to me before, but this is the first time that it's actually been done successfully. I'll have to think about countermeasures. You're unbanned. Sorry about that.
For users who still feels they have a case to appeal, I feel this will be the best option
<...>

But why not actually tackle the problem at the source of the issue? That's just sweeping the dirt under the rug or into a different room. The crap is still going to be there just out of sight. Change the ban message or give them the details of why they were banned and that should stop most people from even asking about their ban. Of course some will still protest but the numbers of them will be greatly reduced.
.

that's why I gave the following suggestion above, we're humans sometimes there could be mistakes so let's give ban users a chase to appeal their ban but it should be done from their banned accounts to prevent the creation of alt accounts here and there.

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October 28, 2018, 07:03:58 AM
 #12

Agreed with OP. All the copypasta bans are valid.

Sometimes there are exceptions.



After investigation, and with help from the rest of the mod team, I've determined that inbizin = bitkoinguru$$$. He created that blog post (registering the domain in June) and then made that post in Meta in order to frame you. The moderator who actually did the banning was not a Russian moderator, but was acting upon what seemed to be a clear case of plagiarism. The thought of this type of attack had occurred to me before, but this is the first time that it's actually been done successfully. I'll have to think about countermeasures.

You're unbanned. Sorry about that.

I unbanned it. Please make sure you leave a note and source at the top or bottom that it has been published elsewhere in future.

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October 28, 2018, 07:24:06 AM
 #13

A user ban for whatever they have right to know why he banned. There is appeal system but it's no more effective. No one helping them officially exeptc hilariousetc . So what is the meaning of ban appeal if there is no solutions. Just over flooding on meta. They should have answer if no possible unban. In that case his temp account should be also ban so that he can't make spam anymore.

It's really poor support about ban and hacked account. A sub board or sticky post could reduce spam from meta I think. Especially admin should give priority for hacked account who have enough evidence.

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October 28, 2018, 07:27:16 AM
Merited by Foxpup (3)
 #14

Quote from: hilariousetc link=topic=5058600.msg47344729#msg47344729
It's pointless even appealing a permaban in the current system. If they're told what they were banned for and that it's permanent then most except the truly desperate probably wouldn't even bother trying.
90% of banned users know the real reason why they were banned, they obviously Knew when they tried to cheat the system by copy and pasting in the hope of getting unnoticed,but when eventually caught and banned still make an appeal here in meta about their ban

But I don't think a lot of them do. Most of them probably didn't think they were doing anything wrong, because why would they even ask in the first place? Most people are probably completely oblivious to the rules, and seem to think that as long as they make a post or change a few words it's ok. If they knew the rules here they wouldn't bother asking if they can be unbanned either since they'd know it's not going to happen for such an infraction.

What is the point of saying people can appeal and that it is ok to discuss the ban in meta?
For users who still feels they have a case to appeal, I feel this will be the best option
"New Child Board for banned users" I also have some additional suggestion. I notice all members who started the topic on ban accounts are new members and that can only mean as a ban user you lose the privileges to start topics or rely on topics so the only option is to create a new account to appeal your case. I believe this isn't the best solution since most users get banned and most times don't know why. So in addition to creating a separate child board for banned users, they should also have the privileges of using their old account to appeal their cases only on the child board section. this will prevent the amount of alt account created on the forum.

But why not actually tackle the problem at the source of the issue? That's just sweeping the dirt under the rug or into a different room. The crap is still going to be there just out of sight. Chnage the ban message or give them the details of why they were banned and that should stop most people from even asking about their ban. Of course some will still protest but the numbers of them will be greatly reduced.

Agreed with OP. All the copypasta bans are valid.

Sometimes there are exceptions.



After investigation, and with help from the rest of the mod team, I've determined that inbizin = bitkoinguru$$$. He created that blog post (registering the domain in June) and then made that post in Meta in order to frame you. The moderator who actually did the banning was not a Russian moderator, but was acting upon what seemed to be a clear case of plagiarism. The thought of this type of attack had occurred to me before, but this is the first time that it's actually been done successfully. I'll have to think about countermeasures.

You're unbanned. Sorry about that.

I unbanned it. Please make sure you leave a note and source at the top or bottom that it has been published elsewhere in future.

Well, those were cases of mistaken instances. One was even a well orchestrated set-up, but there's usually no exceptions for anyone who genuinely does copy other's content (though cyrus did unban one user onetime).

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October 28, 2018, 08:24:01 AM
 #15

As some mentioned in here, since some people have actually be banned by mistake, would be better to rectify the message explaining that unless you are innocent and wrongly banned, there is no point in appealing.

It's clearly going out of hand and people are giving it a shot no matter what.  Smiley
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October 28, 2018, 10:17:15 AM
Last edit: October 28, 2018, 10:33:58 AM by vphasitha01
 #16

As some mentioned in here, since some people have actually be banned by mistake, would be better to rectify the message explaining that unless you are innocent and wrongly banned, there is no point in appealing.
Actually, I'm also agreeing with the @Piggy because I know how I felt when I got auto-banned by one of the global mod by mistakenly.

In my case, I have created this SMART CONTRACTS, simply explained... thread by transcribing the content of a video and I have already mentioned the link of the original video. But one member misunderstood my wording (actually it's my mistake not using the right word) in the OP and report my thread to one of the mod. Then mod auto banned me while I am writing my explanation to the member who claimed that I'm a plagiarist. Next day @theymos unbanned me with the request made by the global mod by reading my ban appeal.

I just want to express there can be some misunderstanding by even mods. Luckily I knew why I have been auto-banned since the member posted his claim in my thread. If he didn't do that I won't be able to find out the reason for my auto ban. Sometimes it would be the end up my career in bitcointalk forum since most of my friends told me there is little chance that you get unbanned and it will take a long time with the request system which isn't helpful as my observations. Therefore I also believed that reason to be shown on their ban message with the reference post. If that happened I believed most of the copy-paste spammers would think it is useless to create a ban appeal thread in Meta unless they have strong evidence. Meta is now almost filled with only ban appeals and appeals of hacked accounts. Showing the reason for banning wouldn't do any harm at all but can reduce the some of the useless requests which already clogged the Meta.



Edit - The author of the medium article excerpted the content of the video without mentioning the source. I just shared the original source but not the plagiarist (medium author). That's what misunderstood the member who claimed that I'm a plagiarist.
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October 28, 2018, 01:19:50 PM
 #17

It is just boring having to read the same thing over and over and I am seriously worried about Suchmoon's health - Alcoholism is a worrying problem and unless you act Suchmoon will be Drinking from morning to night! can you really look in the mirror and be happy that you are making a cool member of this forum drink so much?

I can quit drinking any time. After tomorrow Grin

As for your suggestion - I'm not convinced if it will change much, since those complainers don't read or they deliberately waste our time, but it doesn't seem like a big job and may be worth a try. Could try having a sticky too. Don't even need theymos for that, do we?

I also think the other suggestion floating around - to add an alert next to the "Post" button every time you create a post (sorry to whoever suggested that... can't remember so can't credit properly) has a chance of actually preventing one or two users from suicide, which is preferable to dealing with consequences, so ideally we should have that AND the appeal process improvements.


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October 28, 2018, 02:15:08 PM
Last edit: October 28, 2018, 03:59:44 PM by The Pharmacist
Merited by Foxpup (3)
 #18

Even when a criminal is caught in the act of stealing,he/she is still allowed a fair trial in the court of law,and called a suspect until proven guilty by the law...
As hilariousandco correctly pointed out, bitcointalk isn't a court of law; it's an internet discussion forum.

If copy/pasters/plagiarist were simply ousted from the forum without an appeal message/a thread to discuss about their ban
It wouldn't go down well with the forum as it'll be viewed for it's highhandedness and unwelcoming nature..
Plagiarists aren't welcomed here.  And I would add that members who get banned do in fact get a message with an e-mail to which they can send their ban appeal to.  What they don't get when the ban is issued for copy/pasting is a message stating that fact--even though I'm pretty sure most of them know what they did.  

I absolutely agree with TMAN.  Discussing your ban in Meta is pretty much useless unless there's been a mistake made.  That happens rarely, though.  Most of these threads are just excuses, begging, and time-wasting.  At least if the ban message included something like "You've been banned for plagiarism", it might help cut down on the amount of appeal threads being made.  In any case, it won't hurt anything to include one.

would be better to rectify the message explaining that unless you are innocent and wrongly banned, there is no point in appealing.
I'd support that, too, except I'm sure that most of these moronic copy/pasters think they're innocent and wrongly-banned.  That's why I suggested in another thread that an example of the plagiarism be included in the ban message.

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October 28, 2018, 03:54:37 PM
 #19

Yeah, the message should be changed and the contact email should be removed if it's not being monitored at all (or hire someone to start monitoring it). There are probably people who email it for many months expecting an answer and it's both futile and unfair to them to keep them hanging, and then it just causes more spam in Meta when they ask there. At the very least we could change the warning to something like You have been banned for breaking the rules. This is usually for copy and pasting content or spreading malware, but please see the full rules here to check what you may have been banned for. If you wish to appeal you can do so in Meta, but bans for copy and pasting are permanent. Or something like that. As I've suggested before having a button that issues the ban and gives the reason automatically as copy and pasting would also be solve this and probably shouldn't be too difficult to implement.  
Firstly, most people who get perma-banned come back, unless they are so done with the forum. I don't see the problem with the current Ban message, it'd be easier if the banned users know why they are banned for. IIRC, some users were aware why they were banned for, as it was stated in the ban message.

But one thing, remove that darn email, we know nothing ever happens to those redundant crying letters.

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October 29, 2018, 01:18:54 PM
 #20

Yeah, the message should be changed and the contact email should be removed if it's not being monitored at all (or hire someone to start monitoring it). There are probably people who email it for many months expecting an answer and it's both futile and unfair to them to keep them hanging, and then it just causes more spam in Meta when they ask there. At the very least we could change the warning to something like You have been banned for breaking the rules. This is usually for copy and pasting content or spreading malware, but please see the full rules here to check what you may have been banned for. If you wish to appeal you can do so in Meta, but bans for copy and pasting are permanent. Or something like that. As I've suggested before having a button that issues the ban and gives the reason automatically as copy and pasting would also be solve this and probably shouldn't be too difficult to implement.  
Firstly, most people who get perma-banned come back, unless they are so done with the forum. I don't see the problem with the current Ban message, it'd be easier if the banned users know why they are banned for. IIRC, some users were aware why they were banned for, as it was stated in the ban message.

But one thing, remove that darn email, we know nothing ever happens to those redundant crying letters.

Most people will just evade their bans. There's absolutely no checks from the admins whatsoever, even when we find 100 accounts and ban them all manually they could be evading on 200 more for all we know. You could even just create another one from the very same IP, pay the fee (if there is one) and you're good to go again. You'll only ever be punished for ban evading if you slip up and publicly link the accounts somehow and then you'll likely get red-tagged by the community, but any other accounts they may have that we don't know about are still free to roam around. And the only people who know what they're banned for are temp banned users as the reason is always given. 99% of permabanned users have no reason stated on their ban hence why they're confused and ask here.

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