Post review

[hilariousetc]

Reviewing every post before approval would sure be a lot of work for the moderators and worst still it won't solve the problem.

Damn straight it would be a lot of work and whether it would solve the problem of spam or not....can you imagine the outcries from people when their posts get rejected?  We've already got members screaming that bitcointalk is like the censoring division of the bitcoinazi third reich when they get posts deleted or whole threads trashed.  That would create even more work for the mods and even more drama around here.

I think it would have a tremendous effect on spam. Imagine if every shit thread by a newbie just never makes it to being published. Every single bot that comes here to spam advertise or spread malware will never be seen publicly and staff can nuke them before they need to be reported and do any damage (which we would have to do anyway). I think the place would be cleaned up immediately, especially from spam by new users. Sure, it's a lot more work for staff, but you could argue it's work that we should already be doing anyway and it's because of the lack of action regarding spam that the forum is such a mess in the first place. As for people complaining, then it's only going to be the worse of the worst threads that get trashed which shouldn't be there in the first place. They can be given warnings or notifications as to why their post wasn't accept also.

Not a good idea.  It's not practical, and the current system of dealing with shitposts/spam:

User reports post.
Mod looks at report and deletes post if it is spam.

....is the best way right now. 

I would say this is more impractical. We have to hope users see and then report things and many don't because there's nothing in it for them (in fact, there's usually financial inventive for them not to report them and post in them instead). I think stopping it before it even starts would be a much better solution and at least nobody else has to read it. There are also similar systems on other forum's I've seen on before and it seems to work there (though I can't comment on how much extra workload it is and what the traffic size vs this one is, but still, no more spam from newbie accounts).

I do think more mods are needed and maybe some other changes, but I also think people aren't hitting that "report to moderator" button nearly enough when they come across garbage posts.  I used to spend hours going through threads in the Bitcoin Discussion section and reporting zero-value posts until I got tired of doing so.  I think maybe I'm going to reserve some time in the near future and do some reporting.

The issue is two-fold. There are not enough active mods and not enough active reporters. At least mods get paid, but there's really nothing in it for reporters other than a high score and potential badges (that might not come with any benefits other than the aesthetic of them). Sure, people are helping out the forum when they report but it's largely a waste of time and futile and thankless task when there's so much spam it's often like trying to bucket water out of a sinking ship and that's why most people will probably either just ignore the spam or just take part in it instead (which just exacerbates the problem).

[Thirdspace]

what happen if a post passed a mod's review but then reported as plagiarism the next day?
mods don't have enough time or appropriate tools to do those tasks (on all new posts)
then the new trend of blaming mods will begin in meta forum
furthermore they will start attacking mods credibility while keep spamming to overload mods' works

[hilariousetc]

what happen if a post passed a mod's review but then reported as plagiarism the next day?

Then it'd be removed. Some things will inevitably slip through the net but it's about minimising the damage in the first place.

mods don't have enough time or appropriate tools to do those tasks (on all new posts)

More mods can be added to meet demand, but spam is something we should be dealing with anyway. At least this kills it before it has a chance to be seen or spread.

then the new trend of blaming mods will begin in meta forum
furthermore they will start attacking mods credibility while keep spamming to overload mods' works

Well we'll always be damned whatever we do, but I don't see many people complaining in Meta about their trashed or locked spam mega thread, do you? Plenty of new users come here and ask the same old things that get trashed on sight but there's not much complaints about that either. There will always be resistance and complaints about anything we try to do to minimise spam (see the one merit requirement for Juniors) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying things, especially when we do still have a huge problem with spam and are likely to have for some time.

[Coyster]

what happen if a post passed a mod's review but then reported as plagiarism the next day?
mods don't have enough time or appropriate tools to do those tasks (on all new posts)
then the new trend of blaming mods will begin in meta forum

We could be rest assured that anything that gets past the mods would be at most 10% of spam/copy/pasting/plagiarised content..
I do not think,neither would you that anyone would complain at a 10% level spam content in the forum,considering we're at about a 100% at this moment
That's more or less inconspicuous and a development IMHO
No ones gonna be blamming the Mods
We'll only draw their attention to the little shrapnel of the exploded bomb(spam),that'll be left

[o_e_l_e_o]

I think it would have a tremendous effect on spam. Imagine if every shit thread by a newbie just never makes it to being published. Every single bot that comes here to spam advertise or spread malware will never be seen publicly and staff can nuke them before they need to be reported and do any damage (which we would have to do anyway). I think the place would be cleaned up immediately, especially from spam by new users.

I like this idea, but not without many more staff. Given that only a fraction of the spam is currently being reported, and it sometimes takes 24-48 hours for these reports to be acted upon in boards without a dedicated mod, it is easy to see how within a few days or weeks a backlog could build up which would never be cleared. Genuine newbies could potentially have their posts lost in this backlog and eventually give up when nothing they write is actually posted. We need more staff to guarantee this doesn't happen.

I would also add a perk to this - earning a set amount of merit allows your posts to bypass the filter. It has to be earned merit, so all the hero and legendary shitposters get filtered too, but once you have proven you are a substantial poster by earning say 50 merit (example), your posts no longer need approved before posting. This isn't to say that your posts can't still be reported, or even have the privilege removed if you abuse it.

I don't see many people complaining in Meta about their trashed or locked spam mega thread, do you?

I can say from anecdotal evidence (not scientific, I know) that the majority of time the OP in spam mega threads is long gone. I bet most of them don't even realize their post turned in to a spam mega thread, let alone that it has been locked or trashed. For the most part they aren't interested in reading replies - they are only interested in churning out as many low effort posts in the shortest space of time possible.

[hilariousetc]

Let's suppose this gets implemented. What happens if a Newbie's posts are rejected? Does he get an instant ban, or can he keep posting more and give Mods a large work load? If he gets banned he'll probably just create another account. What about the thousands of bots that are spamming the forum now?

No, but it would depend on the type of post. Obviously bot accounts would be nuked on sight and I guess whether a genuine user is warned or banned or not would also depend on the post but that would be up for debate/discussion before this system was ever implemented. I don't think I would ban people straight away and have always rather warned people that gone straight to a ban, but I would rather the thread be trashed and they told the reasons why via PM (unsubstantial or duplicate thread or whatever).

I can imagine it works well once the forum is healthy, most new users create legitimate posts and a few users per day need banning. On Bitcointalk, we currently have 34000 posts, most of it spam, which would instantly lead to a very large backlog and large delays for the few new real users this forum has.

But we wouldn't be verifying all the 34000 posts. When I initially proposed it it was more of a solution to stopping bots and only a user's first post or so would need to be verified by a staff member. To them the post would still show up as normal but not to everyone else until it has been approved. If it hasn't been accepted or declined by a mod I think it would be helpful to state the reason so people can learn from their mistakes or what is an isn't acceptable here and at least spam threads from newbies will almost be eliminated.

[suchmoon]

I like this idea, but not without many more staff. Given that only a fraction of the spam is currently being reported, and it sometimes takes 24-48 hours for these reports to be acted upon in boards without a dedicated mod, it is easy to see how within a few days or weeks a backlog could build up which would never be cleared. Genuine newbies could potentially have their posts lost in this backlog and eventually give up when nothing they write is actually posted. We need more staff to guarantee this doesn't happen.

Maybe some "junior" type of moderator could be established who can only approve posts but can't delete/nuke/ban/etc. And there could be many of those, like a dozen on a busy board. So that the flow of acceptable newbie posts wouldn't be impeded much, but any garbage would have to wait for "senior" moderator's decision.

[Coyster]

Maybe some "junior" type of moderator could be established who can only approve posts but can't delete/nuke/ban/etc. And there could be many of those, like a dozen on a busy board. So that the flow of acceptable newbie posts wouldn't be impeded much, but any garbage would have to wait for "senior" moderator's decision.

It would be more effective this way,it shouldn't be a difficult task for the "junior" moderators to spot a fairly decent post.
This proposition isn't meant to simply restrict half decent posts but totally garbage/redundant and over discussed topic..
That way it'll be easy task for the "juniors" to approve a post,while the extreme garbage ones are moved over to the main moderators to decide what to do with them(ban/nuke/delete/etc)

In the BD section we could have about 10 "juniors",there's so much work to be done on that section..
The only issue now could be payments for the new moderators(That solely is theymos's call)

[hilariousetc]

I like this idea, but not without many more staff. Given that only a fraction of the spam is currently being reported, and it sometimes takes 24-48 hours for these reports to be acted upon in boards without a dedicated mod, it is easy to see how within a few days or weeks a backlog could build up which would never be cleared. Genuine newbies could potentially have their posts lost in this backlog and eventually give up when nothing they write is actually posted. We need more staff to guarantee this doesn't happen.

Maybe some "junior" type of moderator could be established who can only approve posts but can't delete/nuke/ban/etc. And there could be many of those, like a dozen on a busy board. So that the flow of acceptable newbie posts wouldn't be impeded much, but any garbage would have to wait for "senior" moderator's decision.

We already have junior mods. They're called patrollers, and I guess they'd probably help out with the verifying. We could even have a special team doing the verification's. There's already a fair few people who have probably earned their place on staff by now and then there's lot of other veteran members that I'm sure would help out when they can.

The only issue now could be payments for the new moderators(That solely is theymos's call)

The forum has plenty of money according to theymos so it's not like we couldn't hire some people to do this full time. We could do with some new mods with or without this change to be honest. There's always a never ending supply of work to be done here.