Post review

[Coyster]

Due to the high level of crap/shit posting and a plethora of garbage posts in the forum,most especially the BD,AD,B&H and most recently the Meta section,i think it would only be wise to come up with a new post restriction of some sort,as I think new threads are to blame for the high level of spam posts, as it also invites spammers in the comments that follow suit.

So I postulate that any time a user makes a new post and submits his/her post, this post is made unavailable to other users,but to the MODs in charge of that very section,who's gonna scrutinize the post, and if it's meaningful and not redundant would make it available for all to see.
But if it's an overflogged/over discussed topic, the OP could get a message like"sorry your post doesn't suit our criteria,and hence would be unseen to the rest of the forum,this could be due to the fact that it's meaningless or redundant.

We could start with maybe newbies/jr member ranks,considering they(we)contribute 85% of the spam posts in this forum

Let's discuss this

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[joniboini]

Your solution will make the mods looks like this:

[Coyster]

Your solution will make the mods looks like this:

I know it's definitely gonna be difficult to implement and stressful to operate

We could get more MODS probably
I think the MODS already look that way looking out for redundant threads to trash,copy/pasters to ban and plagiarists to oust from the forum

It would rather make it easier for them,as every post would pass through them, and they'll check for redundancy,cheating,copy/pasting etc

Everything all at once(a proper scrutiny all at once)
It doesn't matter how long the post(note;new topic),would be pending,as long as it'll pass through scrutiny,then I don't mind

[Looking-upto-vod]

Due to the high level of crap/shit posting and a plethora

So I postulate that any time a user makes a new post and submits his/her post, this post is made unavailable to other users,but to the MODs in charge of that very section,who's gonna scrutinize the post,

This postulation will be time consuming and will great a post traffic in the forum. And beside what are the criteria of a good post. What might be trash to you might be treasure to another so one person can't decide what's should be allowed to be posted. That why when ever a spam post is made it get lashings from reply and the moderator has the option to either lock the post or move it. This forum is not a day old it has done a good over view of how to make the forum grow not saying ideas are not welcomed. But this is has been tackled

[actmyname]

This kind of safeguard to spam will ironically lead to spam attacks.

How easy it would be to flood the forum "pending post" database with huge numbers of posts to delay the moderators - Bitcointalk would have no chance.Consider the current state of the forum: how spam is dealt with.

User reports post.
Mod looks at report and deletes post if it is spam.

If there's still spam around the forum then certainly the problem is either not enough reporting or not enough moderating. I don't anticipate the addition of many mods which would alleviate the latter and I don't expect the former to change any time soon.Degradation has already set in with the Altcoin boards and I really don't expect posts to be moderated en masse. Do you really think mods will have time to pore over thousands of bounty reports, thousands of ICO comments, thousands of shills? Maybe if we get an equal amount of staff for the section

[LoyceV]

So I postulate that any time a user makes a new post and submits his/her post, this post is made unavailable to other users,but to the MODs in charge of that very section,who's gonna scrutinize the post

This will never happen: (I was slightly wrong: keep reading lower)

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

if it's meaningful and not redundant would make it available for all to see.

There's some irony in the fact that what you're suggesting has been suggested before. Your post would have been rejected by your own suggestion, creating more work for the Mods.

[Highpitched10]

Bitcointalk has a total board of about 240
With an average post of 8018.93 posts per day.
And an average of 322.94 topics per day..

How in God's name are the moderators going to handle about 300 pending posts all on their desk, considering the fact that they also have issues to handle in real life..

It's going to be life draining for the MODS and just cannot be implemented
There are other methods to draw their attention to spam/plagiarised posts, and that's the "report to moderator button"

Instead of literally killing the moderators with more work to be done it'll only be fair if the community(@OP you included),contribute their/your own quota by searching for or anytime you come across something fishy,check for plagiarism/spam/copypasting and call the attention of the MODS

MODS are humans also

[manfredmann]

some legend users has said that the forum has no problem with high traffic of post recorded daily. The only problem with it is the content of the post that should be regulated or controlled. In this case, altcoin boards has lot more problem and admins does not consider adding some staff to monitor thousands of posts to review.

Anyway, why would we really want to remove spam post? I read them a lot and I do not see any problem with it unless it that vague to read.

[actmyname]

Anyway, why would we really want to remove spam post? I read them a lot and I do not see any problem with it unless it that vague to read.

Are you kidding me?

Spam posts are just that: spam. Whether it's redundancy or generality, they contribute nothing to the topic and only create a buffer between actual, useful posts. If anyone is actually reading the thread, they don't want to see regurgitated content or one-liner replies of "good project".Imagine for a second. Any time you wanted to read a useful paragraph, you also had to skim through 5 (I'm being generous) paragraphs that either reference the same thing or add nothing new to your knowledge. It's absolutely absurd.

[DdmrDdmr]

<…>With an average post of 8018.93 posts per day. <…>
 

Actually, those averages likely aggregate all historical data, so they are way below current values if we want to look at it from a recent standpoint. For example, the average data for the last month is:

Code:

	31/10/2018	27/09/2018	Diff	Avg/day
Posts	47408491	46206303	1202188	34348
Topics	 1169540	1155646	        13894	  397
Users	 2440959	2392993	        47966	 1370

Way more work as per  OPs intent...

[Kopyleft]

Reviewing every post before approval would sure be a lot of work for the moderators and worst still it won't solve the problem.

Irrelevant posts is just part of the issue, and usually gets deleted. The problem is posts which are relevant (or to an an extent) but is flooded with repetitive replies and it goes on and on till it becomes a spam mega thread and thread makers barely cone back to check up on their threads and lock it if necessary.
Mods can not really go through all replies and spam it seems can not be completely eradicate. We can only reduce it with the combined effort of all users.

[coinlocket$]

~

The solution could be to hide the altcoin marketplace section to newbies (they may purchase copper rank if they want to post there).
I think with this "solution" the overall spam decrease by around 70%.

[hilariousetc]

This is pretty much what I already suggested in the community generated suggestions thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4893744.msg44062249#msg44062249

Requiring manually whitelisting of all new accounts before they can post. All new users will essentially be shadowbanned until they've been verified by a mod. This will eliminate 99% of bots and spammers before they even start. Spam threads can be trashed on sight before they even become spam megathreads.

And beside what are the criteria of a good post. What might be trash to you might be treasure to another so one person can't decide what's should be allowed to be posted.

Moderators already get to decide what is trash or not so this isn't really any different.

This kind of safeguard to spam will ironically lead to spam attacks.

How easy it would be to flood the forum "pending post" database with huge numbers of posts to delay the moderators - Bitcointalk would have no chance.

As easy as it is to spam it currently. I don't think there's any logic to what you're postulating because if this was going to happen then they'd be doing it now where it will have more exposure. Staff already have to handle and deal with spam so the only difference is whether it be public or not. At least everyone else doesn't have to see it and spam threads or bots will never make it through the net making the forum cleaner in the process.

So I postulate that any time a user makes a new post and submits his/her post, this post is made unavailable to other users,but to the MODs in charge of that very section,who's gonna scrutinize the post

This will never happen:

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

This isn't really what's being suggested though. Theymos even put the suggestion in the 'maybe' category so it's not out of the question: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4893744.msg44432901#msg44432901

[dothebeats]

Time-consuming and very resource intensive, I should say. The mods are already handling tons of reports and requests every day with the same nature of approach. Also, some mods are doing work voluntarily and not really paid that much (CMMIIW) by this forum. Hiring more mods doesn't necessarily solve the issue of spam, and this might seen as somewhat controlling the freedom of newbies and lower-rank members to post whatever they like (lol). If you happen to see such posts that does not go well with the topic or is somewhat inappropriate to the board in which it was posted, the report to moderator button works wonders.

[atmanagari]

That's not a good option I think. That needs lots of efforts from the mods, and will consume much times and energies.

Just tag or punish or temp ban to the the spammers, the case can be closed easily.

[hilariousetc]

<…>With an average post of 8018.93 posts per day. <…>
 

Actually, those averages likely aggregate all historical data, so they are way below current values if we want to look at it from a recent standpoint. For example, the average data for the last month is:

Code:

	31/10/2018	27/09/2018	Diff	Avg/day
Posts	47408491	46206303	1202188	34348
Topics	 1169540	1155646	        13894	  397
Users	 2440959	2392993	        47966	 1370

Way more work as per  OPs intent...

With my suggestion at least it wouldn't be manually approving every single post or thread, but just the first ones or so of new users (or I guess you could extend it to a certain rank or maybe until all members have received a merit or something). It's about limiting spam and stopping bots because anyone who goes in bitcoin discussion can see that it's a complete shit fest with little worth posting about. If shithreads were trashed on site before they were even made public I think the forum would be a much better place.

and this might seen as somewhat controlling the freedom of newbies and lower-rank members to post whatever they like (lol).

But isn't that the entire problem in the first place? We really don't need another dozen threads from a newbie about who is satoshi, how much you think bitcoin is going to be worth by tomorrow/5pm today/christmas/2019, and asking how do I earn money here.

If you happen to see such posts that does not go well with the topic or is somewhat inappropriate to the board in which it was posted, the report to moderator button works wonders.

But this still requires the same effort from mods and because we don't have people patrolling the forum 24/7 looking for things to do they are more often than not are left there to fester with crap. Those threads should go straight in the trash when they're made but at least they don't clog up the forum in the meantime and continue to keep it an eyesore.

That's not a good option I think. That needs lots of efforts from the mods, and will consume much times and energies.

Just tag or punish or temp ban to the the spammers, the case can be closed easily.

The second sentence contradicts the first here. It's a hell of a lot of time and effort to ban people as well and we still have to handle the spam when it's posted. The spam threads just wont make it public in the first place if they have to be verified first and at least that cleans up the place even if it is a little more work for staff but the benefits would be evident very fast.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Reviewing every post before approval would sure be a lot of work for the moderators and worst still it won't solve the problem.

Damn straight it would be a lot of work and whether it would solve the problem of spam or not....can you imagine the outcries from people when their posts get rejected?  We've already got members screaming that bitcointalk is like the censoring division of the bitcoinazi third reich when they get posts deleted or whole threads trashed.  That would create even more work for the mods and even more drama around here.

Not a good idea.  It's not practical, and the current system of dealing with shitposts/spam:

User reports post.
Mod looks at report and deletes post if it is spam.

....is the best way right now. 

I do think more mods are needed and maybe some other changes, but I also think people aren't hitting that "report to moderator" button nearly enough when they come across garbage posts.  I used to spend hours going through threads in the Bitcoin Discussion section and reporting zero-value posts until I got tired of doing so.  I think maybe I'm going to reserve some time in the near future and do some reporting.

[LoyceV]

So I postulate that any time a user makes a new post and submits his/her post, this post is made unavailable to other users,but to the MODs in charge of that very section,who's gonna scrutinize the post

This will never happen:

Limiting newbie participation is very harmful for a community. Newbie jail will never return: I consider the newbie-jail period to have been extremely damaging to the forum. When barriers to participation are too high, then the best people often just won't go to the trouble of joining, and the people who are willing to jump through the hoops are often people who aren't good for the community: people with nothing better to do, scammers, get-rick-quickers, etc. Having a permanent newbie jail policy would improve things a lot in the short-term, but would end up being a fatal poison to the community.

This isn't really what's being suggested though. Theymos even put the suggestion in the 'maybe' category so it's not out of the question: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4893744.msg44432901#msg44432901

I think I had a different impression of "Newbie jail".
Shadow banning Newbies could work, but the huge number of posts will be a problem.
Let's suppose this gets implemented. What happens if a Newbie's posts are rejected? Does he get an instant ban, or can he keep posting more and give Mods a large work load? If he gets banned he'll probably just create another account. What about the thousands of bots that are spamming the forum now?
I can imagine it works well once the forum is healthy, most new users create legitimate posts and a few users per day need banning. On Bitcointalk, we currently have 34000 posts, most of it spam, which would instantly lead to a very large backlog and large delays for the few new real users this forum has.

can you imagine the outcries from people when their posts get rejected?

The good thing is: nobody but Mods will read their outcries.

[Coyster]

Reviewing every post before approval would sure be a lot of work for the moderators

Would it be a more difficult task than they already have on their hands,i think you and I know the answer to that, it's a NO

Mods still rummage through crap sections all day,searching for low content topic and plagiarists
Even when you hit the report to moderator button,its not as if that's were the work ends, a mod still attends to the issue
Thats still down to the much work you're talking about here...

This suggestion would help quell spam posts and plagiarised content from the grassroots..
Screaming it's gonna be much work, is so wrong
Take time to think it through,all posts pass through them, it actually reduces their duty, they scrutinize the post once it's posted,so they are rest assured that anything on the forum is legit and no need rummaging all day..
And did we ever think quelling spam posts was going to be an easy,walk in the park task?
It'll definitely take some doing

Who cares about the cries that'll follow suit, we had likewise cries when we enhanced 1merit>jr member,what did it change??,nothing except a reduction in spam content

[sudeshkumar]

Post review shall be made at the time of posting so that its effects should be curbed immediately and the readers should be escaped from their loss of time.

[hilariousetc]

Reviewing every post before approval would sure be a lot of work for the moderators and worst still it won't solve the problem.

Damn straight it would be a lot of work and whether it would solve the problem of spam or not....can you imagine the outcries from people when their posts get rejected?  We've already got members screaming that bitcointalk is like the censoring division of the bitcoinazi third reich when they get posts deleted or whole threads trashed.  That would create even more work for the mods and even more drama around here.

I think it would have a tremendous effect on spam. Imagine if every shit thread by a newbie just never makes it to being published. Every single bot that comes here to spam advertise or spread malware will never be seen publicly and staff can nuke them before they need to be reported and do any damage (which we would have to do anyway). I think the place would be cleaned up immediately, especially from spam by new users. Sure, it's a lot more work for staff, but you could argue it's work that we should already be doing anyway and it's because of the lack of action regarding spam that the forum is such a mess in the first place. As for people complaining, then it's only going to be the worse of the worst threads that get trashed which shouldn't be there in the first place. They can be given warnings or notifications as to why their post wasn't accept also.

Not a good idea.  It's not practical, and the current system of dealing with shitposts/spam:

User reports post.
Mod looks at report and deletes post if it is spam.

....is the best way right now. 

I would say this is more impractical. We have to hope users see and then report things and many don't because there's nothing in it for them (in fact, there's usually financial inventive for them not to report them and post in them instead). I think stopping it before it even starts would be a much better solution and at least nobody else has to read it. There are also similar systems on other forum's I've seen on before and it seems to work there (though I can't comment on how much extra workload it is and what the traffic size vs this one is, but still, no more spam from newbie accounts).

I do think more mods are needed and maybe some other changes, but I also think people aren't hitting that "report to moderator" button nearly enough when they come across garbage posts.  I used to spend hours going through threads in the Bitcoin Discussion section and reporting zero-value posts until I got tired of doing so.  I think maybe I'm going to reserve some time in the near future and do some reporting.

The issue is two-fold. There are not enough active mods and not enough active reporters. At least mods get paid, but there's really nothing in it for reporters other than a high score and potential badges (that might not come with any benefits other than the aesthetic of them). Sure, people are helping out the forum when they report but it's largely a waste of time and futile and thankless task when there's so much spam it's often like trying to bucket water out of a sinking ship and that's why most people will probably either just ignore the spam or just take part in it instead (which just exacerbates the problem).

[Thirdspace]

what happen if a post passed a mod's review but then reported as plagiarism the next day?
mods don't have enough time or appropriate tools to do those tasks (on all new posts)
then the new trend of blaming mods will begin in meta forum
furthermore they will start attacking mods credibility while keep spamming to overload mods' works

[hilariousetc]

what happen if a post passed a mod's review but then reported as plagiarism the next day?

Then it'd be removed. Some things will inevitably slip through the net but it's about minimising the damage in the first place.

mods don't have enough time or appropriate tools to do those tasks (on all new posts)

More mods can be added to meet demand, but spam is something we should be dealing with anyway. At least this kills it before it has a chance to be seen or spread.

then the new trend of blaming mods will begin in meta forum
furthermore they will start attacking mods credibility while keep spamming to overload mods' works

Well we'll always be damned whatever we do, but I don't see many people complaining in Meta about their trashed or locked spam mega thread, do you? Plenty of new users come here and ask the same old things that get trashed on sight but there's not much complaints about that either. There will always be resistance and complaints about anything we try to do to minimise spam (see the one merit requirement for Juniors) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying things, especially when we do still have a huge problem with spam and are likely to have for some time.

[Coyster]

what happen if a post passed a mod's review but then reported as plagiarism the next day?
mods don't have enough time or appropriate tools to do those tasks (on all new posts)
then the new trend of blaming mods will begin in meta forum

We could be rest assured that anything that gets past the mods would be at most 10% of spam/copy/pasting/plagiarised content..
I do not think,neither would you that anyone would complain at a 10% level spam content in the forum,considering we're at about a 100% at this moment
That's more or less inconspicuous and a development IMHO
No ones gonna be blamming the Mods
We'll only draw their attention to the little shrapnel of the exploded bomb(spam),that'll be left

[o_e_l_e_o]

I think it would have a tremendous effect on spam. Imagine if every shit thread by a newbie just never makes it to being published. Every single bot that comes here to spam advertise or spread malware will never be seen publicly and staff can nuke them before they need to be reported and do any damage (which we would have to do anyway). I think the place would be cleaned up immediately, especially from spam by new users.

I like this idea, but not without many more staff. Given that only a fraction of the spam is currently being reported, and it sometimes takes 24-48 hours for these reports to be acted upon in boards without a dedicated mod, it is easy to see how within a few days or weeks a backlog could build up which would never be cleared. Genuine newbies could potentially have their posts lost in this backlog and eventually give up when nothing they write is actually posted. We need more staff to guarantee this doesn't happen.

I would also add a perk to this - earning a set amount of merit allows your posts to bypass the filter. It has to be earned merit, so all the hero and legendary shitposters get filtered too, but once you have proven you are a substantial poster by earning say 50 merit (example), your posts no longer need approved before posting. This isn't to say that your posts can't still be reported, or even have the privilege removed if you abuse it.

I don't see many people complaining in Meta about their trashed or locked spam mega thread, do you?

I can say from anecdotal evidence (not scientific, I know) that the majority of time the OP in spam mega threads is long gone. I bet most of them don't even realize their post turned in to a spam mega thread, let alone that it has been locked or trashed. For the most part they aren't interested in reading replies - they are only interested in churning out as many low effort posts in the shortest space of time possible.

[hilariousetc]

Let's suppose this gets implemented. What happens if a Newbie's posts are rejected? Does he get an instant ban, or can he keep posting more and give Mods a large work load? If he gets banned he'll probably just create another account. What about the thousands of bots that are spamming the forum now?

No, but it would depend on the type of post. Obviously bot accounts would be nuked on sight and I guess whether a genuine user is warned or banned or not would also depend on the post but that would be up for debate/discussion before this system was ever implemented. I don't think I would ban people straight away and have always rather warned people that gone straight to a ban, but I would rather the thread be trashed and they told the reasons why via PM (unsubstantial or duplicate thread or whatever).

I can imagine it works well once the forum is healthy, most new users create legitimate posts and a few users per day need banning. On Bitcointalk, we currently have 34000 posts, most of it spam, which would instantly lead to a very large backlog and large delays for the few new real users this forum has.

But we wouldn't be verifying all the 34000 posts. When I initially proposed it it was more of a solution to stopping bots and only a user's first post or so would need to be verified by a staff member. To them the post would still show up as normal but not to everyone else until it has been approved. If it hasn't been accepted or declined by a mod I think it would be helpful to state the reason so people can learn from their mistakes or what is an isn't acceptable here and at least spam threads from newbies will almost be eliminated.

[suchmoon]

I like this idea, but not without many more staff. Given that only a fraction of the spam is currently being reported, and it sometimes takes 24-48 hours for these reports to be acted upon in boards without a dedicated mod, it is easy to see how within a few days or weeks a backlog could build up which would never be cleared. Genuine newbies could potentially have their posts lost in this backlog and eventually give up when nothing they write is actually posted. We need more staff to guarantee this doesn't happen.

Maybe some "junior" type of moderator could be established who can only approve posts but can't delete/nuke/ban/etc. And there could be many of those, like a dozen on a busy board. So that the flow of acceptable newbie posts wouldn't be impeded much, but any garbage would have to wait for "senior" moderator's decision.

[Coyster]

Maybe some "junior" type of moderator could be established who can only approve posts but can't delete/nuke/ban/etc. And there could be many of those, like a dozen on a busy board. So that the flow of acceptable newbie posts wouldn't be impeded much, but any garbage would have to wait for "senior" moderator's decision.

It would be more effective this way,it shouldn't be a difficult task for the "junior" moderators to spot a fairly decent post.
This proposition isn't meant to simply restrict half decent posts but totally garbage/redundant and over discussed topic..
That way it'll be easy task for the "juniors" to approve a post,while the extreme garbage ones are moved over to the main moderators to decide what to do with them(ban/nuke/delete/etc)

In the BD section we could have about 10 "juniors",there's so much work to be done on that section..
The only issue now could be payments for the new moderators(That solely is theymos's call)

[hilariousetc]

I like this idea, but not without many more staff. Given that only a fraction of the spam is currently being reported, and it sometimes takes 24-48 hours for these reports to be acted upon in boards without a dedicated mod, it is easy to see how within a few days or weeks a backlog could build up which would never be cleared. Genuine newbies could potentially have their posts lost in this backlog and eventually give up when nothing they write is actually posted. We need more staff to guarantee this doesn't happen.

Maybe some "junior" type of moderator could be established who can only approve posts but can't delete/nuke/ban/etc. And there could be many of those, like a dozen on a busy board. So that the flow of acceptable newbie posts wouldn't be impeded much, but any garbage would have to wait for "senior" moderator's decision.

We already have junior mods. They're called patrollers, and I guess they'd probably help out with the verifying. We could even have a special team doing the verification's. There's already a fair few people who have probably earned their place on staff by now and then there's lot of other veteran members that I'm sure would help out when they can.

The only issue now could be payments for the new moderators(That solely is theymos's call)

The forum has plenty of money according to theymos so it's not like we couldn't hire some people to do this full time. We could do with some new mods with or without this change to be honest. There's always a never ending supply of work to be done here.