Account Seller

[queennathalia]

Hello, This is account seller https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5058514.msg47337263#msg47337263. This is not trustworthy person.

[Findingnemo]

Hello, This is account seller https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5058514.msg47337263#msg47337263. This is not trustworthy person.

Tagging a newbie account is not worth but anyway @TP will tag that account soon when he see this thread,keep watching the trust rating if not have negative feedback for a while don't forget to bump this thread.

And also make archive of this thread for the proof.

[queennathalia]

Hello, This is account seller https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5058514.msg47337263#msg47337263. This is not trustworthy person.

Tagging a newbie account is not worth but anyway @TP will tag that account soon when he see this thread,keep watching the trust rating if not have negative feedback for a while don't forget to bump this thread.

And also make archive of this thread for the proof.

I thought that guys didn't know about account selling, That is not good to everyone. They can make a deal and that deals can make you cry in the end. Thanks for the support

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Account sell is not prohibited by the forum admin or moderator. Account sells allowed by them. If it breaks any rule then better to make complain to the forum admin sothat they can reconsider the case.

You're saying it's allowed by the admins and in the same breath you're recommending that account sales get reported to them?  Or maybe I just misinterpreted your post, which wasn't very clearly written.

In any case, even though account sales are allowed by the forum, many members here (including ones on DT) find it to be a very shady practice for a number of reasons, and I don't have the patience to write in this thread all the bad outcomes account sales can lead to.  Be advised that account sellers (and buyers) tend to get red-trust tagged by DT members, and that's probably why OP started this thread.

[shasan]

Account sell is not prohibited by the forum admin or moderator. Account sells allowed by them. If it breaks any rule then better to make complain to the forum admin sothat they can reconsider the case.

You're saying it's allowed by the admins and in the same breath you're recommending that account sales get reported to them?  Or maybe I just misinterpreted your post, which wasn't very clearly written.

I have read that account sales allowed but discouraged. I am trying to find it out. I will edit my post asap. Sorry but I am not recommending or encouraging account sales. I wanted to say if account sales against forum rule or it can make us harmful then we should complain to the forum admin sothat they can change their rule by mentioning account sales not allow.
Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0#post_faq
Rule number 18.
Please have a look. I am almost new. So, I might have mistake. Please dont take it seriously.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I have read that account sales allowed but discouraged. I am trying to find it out. I will edit my post asap. Sorry but I am not recommending or encouraging account sales. I wanted to say if account sales against forum rule or it can make us harmful then we should complain to the forum admin sothat they can change their rule by mentioning account sales not allow.

You don't have to edit your post--your thoughts and opinions aren't going to get you in trouble about this matter.  I was just trying to clarify the situation for you.

Also, the rule (or lack of one) about account selling isn't likely to change anytime soon, though it's been suggested many times.  It's the same with scammers.  They're free to scam as much as they like without facing any consequences from moderators or admins--but the community deals with them much the same way as account sellers (or at least some of them do).

[shasan]

I have read that account sales allowed but discouraged. I am trying to find it out. I will edit my post asap. Sorry but I am not recommending or encouraging account sales. I wanted to say if account sales against forum rule or it can make us harmful then we should complain to the forum admin sothat they can change their rule by mentioning account sales not allow.

You don't have to edit your post--your thoughts and opinions aren't going to get you in trouble about this matter.  I was just trying to clarify the situation for you.

Also, the rule (or lack of one) about account selling isn't likely to change anytime soon, though it's been suggested many times.  It's the same with scammers.  They're free to scam as much as they like without facing any consequences from moderators or admins--but the community deals with them much the same way as account sellers (or at least some of them do).

Sorry edited before seeing your post. As it is already discussed and there is no chance to change rule soon, I think negative trust is must. Though I think it might not stop account selling as almost all post made by newbie account which has no value and account seller can make deal on other site or social media which was mentioned on faq on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0#post_faq
If there is a way to find out account sellers that could be helpful for the forum. This is my personal thought and also I think developer or coder will do something.

[marlboroza]

@TP they are taking forum accounts as collateral. I think I have said more than enough with this.

Sorry but I am not recommending or encouraging account sales.

Actually you do. When someone default, you will have to liquidate account.

[shasan]

@TP they are taking forum accounts as collateral. I think I have said more than enough with this.

Sorry but I am not recommending or encouraging account sales.

Actually you do. When someone default, you will have to liquidate account.

Bro, my loan thread is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5030169.0
For few member I keep their account as collateral. Sothat they cant take any other loan or cant make any scam. Anyway, if you think it breaks any rule or it may harm our forum please let me know. I will stop it. I want to say one thing that I do not want to do anything which will be harmful for the forum or any forum member.
Edit:I have edited my terms for collateral. Yet I am waiting for both of your opinion. According to my current rule I will not take account as collateral. But if you think it will not be harmful for forum then I may take account as collateral. Until you response that will remain stopped.

[bones261]

@TP they are taking forum accounts as collateral. I think I have said more than enough with this.

Sorry but I am not recommending or encouraging account sales.

Actually you do. When someone default, you will have to liquidate account.

Bro, my loan thread is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5030169.0
For few member I keep their account as collateral. Sothat they cant take any other loan or cant make any scam. Anyway, if you think it breaks any rule or it may harm our forum please let me know. I will stop it. I want to say one thing that I do not want to do anything which will be harmful for the forum or any forum member.
Edit:I have edited my terms for collateral. Yet I am waiting for both of your opinion. According to my current rule I will not take account as collateral. But if you think it will not be harmful for forum then I may take account as collateral. Until you response that will remain stopped.

I'm not a default trust member. However, I definitely think account sales are detrimental to this forum. Two major reasons people purchase an account is to either have a higher ranking account to cash in on signature campaigns or to give the impression that they are some reputable member in order to launch a project or engage in commerce. Unfortunately, many of the people who are buying accounts to cash in on signature campaigns fill the threads with low quality posts or even plagiarize. Also, quite a few people who purchase accounts to launch a project or engage in commerce, end up scamming people. The only reason that account selling is not outright disallowed by the forum is because there is no real way to enforce it. People can just take this outside of the forum, (and many do.)
It's really up to you if you want to give people the opportunity to offer their accounts as collateral for loans. On one hand, it will make it easier for you to get customers. On the other hand, it may result in you getting a red tag on your trust rating by some DT members, if you get caught trying to sell an account that you confiscated. However, I know that I always look deeper into a negative trust rating. If I am interested in getting a loan, (which I haven't been yet) I would read the comments in the trust ratings. If I see that you were red tagged for account sales but are already up front that you accept accounts as collateral, It would probably not really discourage me from doing business with you.

[The Cryptovator]

Anyway, if you think it breaks any rule or it may harm our forum please let me know. I will stop it. I want to say one thing that I do not want to do anything which will be harmful for the forum or any forum member.

I am not sure it's harmful for forum or not but it's really harmful for you. Collateral an account equal to account trade. What you will do if borrower never return your loan? Will you attempt to sale account ? Or only leave with red trust? However you will in lose. For example if someone want to sale his account, he will not post himself due to red trust. But he could take loan from you if you allow for collateral. He will take loan from you and skip with fund. You can't do anything except sale account. On the other hand you don't know the account from where came on. May be someone hacked others account, who know ? Although you are directly not involved with account sale but if you accept for collateral it's means you are encourage them to trade account which is shady work. So better avoid account collateral for loan. It's totally my own opinion. Since account sale allowed by forum I can't force you. But personally I really don't like who involved with account trade.

[shasan]

People can just take this outside of the forum, (and many do.)

Many people can buy/sell accounts out of posting on bitcointalk. Steps should take ASAP:

If there is a way to find out account sellers that could be helpful for the forum. This is my personal thought and also I think developer or coder will do something.

[bones261]

Many people can buy/sell accounts out of posting on bitcointalk. Steps should take ASAP:

If there is a way to find out account sellers that could be helpful for the forum. This is my personal thought and also I think developer or coder will do something.

I'm not sure how effective that would be. There are too many personal message apps that can be used, as well as e-mail. There is only so much that a web crawler can do. Also, someone can take on many different identities on the internet. Moreover, AFAIK, engaging in account sales is not an illegal act in any jurisdiction. Furthermore, I do not think Theymos wants to expend time and money to issue cease and desist letters and other legal action to try and stop this in civil court.

[shasan]

Anyway, if you think it breaks any rule or it may harm our forum please let me know. I will stop it. I want to say one thing that I do not want to do anything which will be harmful for the forum or any forum member.

I am not sure it's harmful for forum or not but it's really harmful for you. Collateral an account equal to account trade. What you will do if borrower never return your loan? Will you attempt to sale account ? Or only leave with red trust? However you will in lose. For example if someone want to sale his account, he will not post himself due to red trust. But he could take loan from you if you allow for collateral. He will take loan from you and skip with fund. You can't do anything except sale account. On the other hand you don't know the account from where came on. May be someone hacked others account, who know ? Although you are directly not involved with account sale but if you accept for collateral it's means you are encourage them to trade account which is shady work. So better avoid account collateral for loan. It's totally my own opinion. Since account sale allowed by forum I can't force you. But personally I really don't like who involved with account trade.

I have already edited my terms on loan thread (only altcoin as collateral). Giving loan by taking bct account as collateral almost same to non collateral loan. If take bct account as collateral then s/he will not be able to take another loan or will not be able to trade or do any violation which can be harmful for the forum. For example: pinkman12345 took two loan at a time and defaulted. If it was taken collateral by the first person then s/he could not default another one. I/you (we cant read anyone's mind but we should be conscious as much as possible.
If I give loan by taking bct account as collateral or without collateral I check signature. Or give bitcoin to previous staked address (as exchange address cant be used to verify signature).
And also if take account as collateral then s/he will try to repay as soon as possible. If any borrower still default a loan then nothing to do.
actmyname asked loan without collateral and received from two person .25BTC I guess as I have not followed latter. And once s/he checked he refunded last sender. So,it is difficult to understand by rank who will default and who not. Someone defaulting 0.0001BTC and someone not defaulting .5BTC

I'm not sure how effective that would be. There are too many personal message apps that can be used, as well as e-mail. There is only so much that a web crawler can do. Also, someone can take on many different identities on the internet. Moreover, AFAIK, engaging in account sales is not an illegal act in any jurisdiction. Furthermore, I do not think Theymos wants to expend time and money to issue cease and desist letters and other legal action to try and stop this in civil court.

If there is a way to stop a harmful effect for forum, I think that should do for the forum.

[bones261]

I'm not sure how effective that would be. There are too many personal message apps that can be used, as well as e-mail. There is only so much that a web crawler can do. Also, someone can take on many different identities on the internet. Moreover, AFAIK, engaging in account sales is not an illegal act in any jurisdiction. Furthermore, I do not think Theymos wants to expend time and money to issue cease and desist letters and other legal action to try and stop this in civil court.

If there is a way to stop a harmful effect for forum, I think that should do for the forum.

What would probably help the most is for the forum to implement silver, gold, platinum and diamond memberships. Silver would get you the same editing privileges as a member; gold as a full member; platinum as a Sr member and diamond as a hero/legendary. That way people can have the option for paying for privileges directly to bitcointalk rather than buying a higher ranked account, or hoping to rank up. Furthermore, if they paid for a membership, they may be encouraged not to go about trying to get away with copy/paste bullshit by creating an endless supply of throw-away accounts. The new memberships probably will not completely stop the account market, however; it may decrease the demand by quite a bit and make it less profitable.

[shasan]

I'm not sure how effective that would be. There are too many personal message apps that can be used, as well as e-mail. There is only so much that a web crawler can do. Also, someone can take on many different identities on the internet. Moreover, AFAIK, engaging in account sales is not an illegal act in any jurisdiction. Furthermore, I do not think Theymos wants to expend time and money to issue cease and desist letters and other legal action to try and stop this in civil court.

If there is a way to stop a harmful effect for forum, I think that should do for the forum.

What would probably help the most is for the forum to implement silver, gold, platinum and diamond memberships. Silver would get you the same editing privileges as a member; gold as a full member; platinum as a Sr member and diamond as a hero/legendary. That way people can have the option for paying for privileges directly to bitcointalk rather than buying a higher ranked account, or hoping to rank up. Furthermore, if they paid for a membership, they may be encouraged not to go about trying to get away with copy/paste bullshit by creating an endless supply of throw-away accounts. The new memberships probably will not completely stop the account market, however; it may decrease the demand by quite a bit and make it less profitable.

I think if admin make paid membership as you mentioned then account trade will decrease 95%. But in this case what will be the benefit? What will be the benefit by stopping account sales by the way you mentioned? traded account and paid membership can be used on same purpose.

[marlboroza]

~
Bro, my loan thread is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5030169.0
For few member I keep their account as collateral. Sothat they cant take any other loan or cant make any scam. Anyway, if you think it breaks any rule or it may harm our forum please let me know. I will stop it. I want to say one thing that I do not want to do anything which will be harmful for the forum or any forum member.
Edit:I have edited my terms for collateral. Yet I am waiting for both of your opinion. According to my current rule I will not take account as collateral. But if you think it will not be harmful for forum then I may take account as collateral. Until you response that will remain stopped.

It is really non of my business what you will do, I only expressed my personal opinion about taking accounts as collateral because, at some point, you will have to sell them and I don't really want to talk about account trades on this forum because it has been discussed many times.

For other "why is it allowed" related questions, read forum rules and eventually you will get to this part:

Q: I saw a guy selling Bitcointalk accounts. Why is that allowed?
A: Since we can't effectively prevent these sales (proxies, TOR, sales in other forums), we don't because otherwise we would be giving the users a false sense of security.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Will you attempt to sale account ? Or only leave with red trust?

Of course the account will be sold--that's the whole point unless the person who took it as collateral plans to use it for a campaign himself.  Leaving a neg on it does no good at all once it's out of the original owner's hands.

This is where the whole iluvbitcoins debacle stemmed from.  He took an account as collateral and later tried to sell it--and he did so using his own account in the sales thread.  Now, I don't think account selling is right, and I don't like that accounts are being offered as collateral for loans, but most people these days create a throwaway account when they're selling an account.

Depending on rank and how many merits an account has, and account could be decent collateral, but I thought the account-selling market had pretty much bottomed out.  Anyway, I really wish lenders would stop accepting them as collateral because that only perpetuates account selling.  And yeah, we've been over this a thousand times already.

[bones261]

I think if admin make paid membership as you mentioned then account trade will decrease 95%. But in this case what will be the benefit? What will be the benefit by stopping account sales by the way you mentioned? traded account and paid membership can be used on same purpose.

If account sales dropped 95%, it will probably make quite a few account farmers stop. Many account farmers are also guilty of posting spam and plagiarized content in order to try and and rank up accounts.

[shasan]

It is really non of my business what you will do, I only expressed my personal opinion about taking accounts as collateral because, at some point, you will have to sell them and I don't really want to talk about account trades on this forum because it has been discussed many times.

Thanks for your clarification.

Depending on rank and how many merits an account has, and account could be decent collateral, but I thought the account-selling market had pretty much bottomed out.  Anyway, I really wish lenders would stop accepting them as collateral because that only perpetuates account selling.  And yeah, we've been over this a thousand times already.

I was waiting to get response from you and marlboroza. I follow several persons and both are you on that list. As taking collateral is not harmful and it is not account trading I will take account as collateral. In this way, there will have hurry to repay, there will be no chance to scam more by account trading or any scam trading eg: paypal skrill or take any other loan like pinkerman---. But I will never sell any account.

Thanks both of you.

If account sales dropped 95%, it will probably make quite a few account farmers stop. Many account farmers are also guilty of posting spam and plagiarized content in order to try and and rank up accounts.

I agree with you. Also after merit system, rank up is too high so account trading should decrease day by day. Earlier anyone could rank up account only by saying: hi, hello, +1 etc. But now it is impossible. There is no chance to get a single merit without good post. I think 50% trade should be stopped within few months. There are few others reasons too. Bounty abusers are getting tagged, account traders are getting tagged, spammer are getting tagged, scammer are getting tagged, Paid ann promoters also getting tagged.