Bitcoin Forum
May 23, 2019, 02:26:48 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Space Development and Space Science Together, an Historic Opportunity  (Read 167 times)
bluefirecorp_
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 102


View Profile
November 02, 2018, 08:06:44 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), dbshck (2)
 #1

Quote
The national space programs have an historic opportunity to help solve the global-scale economic and environmental problems of Earth while becoming more effective at science through the use of space resources. Space programs will be more cost-effective when they work to establish a supply chain in space, mining and manufacturing then replicating the assets of the supply chain so it grows to larger capacity. This has become achievable because of advances in robotics and artificial intelligence. It is roughly estimated that developing a lunar outpost that relies upon and also develops the supply chain will cost about 1/3 or less of the existing annual budgets of the national space programs. It will require a sustained commitment of several decades to complete, during which time science and exploration become increasingly effective. At the end, this space industry will capable of addressing global-scale challenges including limited resources, clean energy, economic development, and preservation of the environment. Other potential solutions, including nuclear fusion and terrestrial renewable energy sources, do not address the root problem of our limited globe and there are real questions whether they will be inadequate or too late. While industry in space likewise cannot provide perfect assurance, it is uniquely able to solve the root problem, and it gives us an important chance that we should grasp. What makes this such an historic opportunity is that the space-based solution is obtainable as a side-benefit of doing space science and exploration within their existing budgets. Thinking pragmatically, it may take some time for policymakers to agree that setting up a complete supply chain is an achievable goal, so this paper describes a strategy of incremental progress.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1609.00737


This paper resonated with me. If we can setup a complete supply chain in space, we could ship back finished goods rather than raw material.

However, it's crazy to think that the payload of one shuttle of a precious metal, such as gold, is equivalent to over 50 years of surface mining. It's crazy how many precious metals are on asteroid impact sites on the moon.

I think we're ready to start the true space race and finally hit post-scarcity.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Vod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2744
Merit: 2168


Licking my boob since 1970


View Profile WWW
November 02, 2018, 11:30:06 PM
 #2

I think we're ready to start the true space race and finally hit post-scarcity.

I can't find the /. link right now, but some government just announced a new material that is 7x? stronger than needed to build a space elevator.

o_e_l_e_o
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 1907



View Profile
November 03, 2018, 10:02:05 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4), Vod (2)
 #3

Here you go:

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2170193/china-has-strongest-fibre-can-haul-160-elephants-and-space

Apparently this new carbon nanotube is between 9 and 45 times stronger than previous materials and has a tensile strength of 80 gigapascals - with 7 gigapascals bring the strength hypothesized to be required for a space elevator. In layman's terms, apparently 1cm3 of the fibre would weigh only 1.6g but support 800 tonnes.

There are a lot more issues to overcome before building a space elevator than simply finding strong enough materials though. Also, although it exists, producing it in bulk may be financially prohibitive.
paxmao
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 433


Spanish Community Translation and Strategy review


View Profile
November 05, 2018, 12:33:47 PM
Last edit: November 09, 2018, 01:23:37 PM by paxmao
Merited by dbshck (2)
 #4

...producing it in bulk may be financially prohibitive.

That is the case with many of the new technologies. I am sure that I won't see that in the next 10 years, but I am also sure that it will eventually happen. Cell phones were initially as heavy as a TV and the batteries were stupidly expensive and useless. Yet now everyone has access to cell telephony even in countries that.

There are a few technologies that could (I think will) make a big impact when industrialized, mostly the ones dealing with nano tech, water treatment, personalized medicine, cybernetics and AI and solar energy.

...In layman's terms, apparently 1cm3 of the fibre would weigh only 1.6g but support 800 tonnes...

This is me not believing it. Me wants see it.

bluefirecorp_
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 102


View Profile
November 07, 2018, 01:33:48 AM
 #5

So, I'm not really sure why the thread derailed into space elevators. The paper's about a moon base supply chain being feasible.
DigitalCyberius
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 100
Merit: 11


View Profile
November 07, 2018, 04:59:20 AM
 #6

That's a really interesting concept. Would these assembly lines by automated or manned? On the same concept, you could perhaps build spaceships, research stations, and more factories and refineries in space from the materials you mine, which would consume less fuel getting them from the Earth into space. It could make colonizing other planets much easier as well. Wouldn't it be interesting to hitch a ride on a resource-rich asteroid, and use the mined materials to create facilities and spaceships on/inside the asteroid as it hurtles off in whichever direction... it could, in essence, become a mothership to help build a mothership, and you could even perhaps build thrusters to help propel it along even faster.

Space is exciting! Let's also not forget the Ocean depths, which are pretty much as mysterious. As to mining, I recently read that Planetary Resources was acquired by an Ethereum-centric blockchain startup. Also, it's not just metals, Helium-3 mining on the moon could be very profitable as well.

Thanks for posting,
The Cyberius team.
sister1001
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 244
Merit: 37


View Profile
November 11, 2018, 10:23:54 AM
Last edit: November 12, 2018, 08:25:11 PM by sister1001
 #7

That's a really interesting concept. Would these assembly lines by automated or manned?...

As far as I am concerned, humans should be only creators of the new and steering the wheel of history with direction and innovation. Would no one consider natural that if a robot can do my bid I should have more free time to be human, to communicate with others and enhance the life of all?

Yet here are the factic powerhouses of the world, conspiracy or not, providing the eighteen century recipe three centuries past their time - if there was ever a time - to convince us, the people, that our worth is no more than that of a metal piece. Hail to the King of the chain greasers! Long life the President of the door-knob polishers!

And yes all the absurd kingdoms need a church so let´s build one that we will call the "dream". The dream will slash our enemies with words ("more powerful than the sword") and will overcome any need for a rational thinking. The "dream" will separate the believers from the terrorist and the worthy individuals from the lazy hordes that plague the Earth, forever guilty of their own hunger.

Be forever blessed "dreamer" who thinks that his worth is that of his last day of inhuman work and devours whatever new buzz runs in the hive of the neo-capitalism and the old-communism that could never understand, describe nor serve the future Mankind -  our children.
bluefirecorp_
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 102


View Profile
November 11, 2018, 08:58:31 PM
 #8

As far as I am concerned, humans should be only creators of the new and steering the wheel of history with direction and innovation. Would no one consider natural that if a robot can do my bid I should have more free time to be human, to communicate with others and enhance the life of all?

Yet here are the factic powerhouses of the world, conspiracy or not, providing the eighteen century recipe three centuries past their time - if there was ever a time - to convince us, the people, that our worth is no more than that of a metal piece. Hail to the King of the chain greasers! Long life the President of the door-knob polishers!

And yes all the absurd kingdoms need a church so let´s build one that we will call the "dream". The dream will slash our enemies with words ("more powerful than the sword") and will overcome any need for a rational thinking. The "dream" will separate the believers from the terrorist and the worthy individuals from the lazy hordes that plague the Earth, forever guilty of their own hunger.

Be forever blessed "dreamer" who thinks that his worth is that of his last day of inhuman work and devours whatever new buzz runs in the hive of the neo-capitalism and the old-communism that could never understand, describe nor serve the future Mankind -  our children.

Dude, I have no idea what sort of drugs you've been consuming, but stop. Your "religion" has no place here.

Also, many products every day are manufactured by automatic processes on earth. Hell, you're communicating with me via Bitcointalk which has an automatic serving system just waiting for your request of information to publish online.

I have no idea why you think just because it's on the moon, it wouldn't be "human" driven.
SaltySpitoon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142
Merit: 1762


Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?


View Profile
November 12, 2018, 01:24:28 AM
Merited by Foxpup (5), suchmoon (4)
 #9

We are at the point where expanded space technologies are becoming viable, but not feasible.  Its progress, but media science tech articles do a really shitty job of over-promising, or rather leaving out the unexciting details. And tech journals don't become popular if they aren't vague enough to allow people to imagine a few details for themselves. It wouldn't be nearly as interesting to read if it had a forewarning that the topic of the article has been proposed, it'll finally be built in 10 years, and may be able to be produced in 30 years.

I don't have specific numbers to back it up, but I'd be willing to bet that it isn't feasible to transport gold back to earth, even without any labor. Just the transportation costs alone would be a few times the cost of the precious metals. Robot space mining makes a really cool scifi story, but when we do get around to it, it'll probably be for the purpose of getting water, rather than metals.
bluefirecorp_
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 308
Merit: 102


View Profile
November 12, 2018, 02:33:21 AM
 #10

We are at the point where expanded space technologies are becoming viable, but not feasible.  Its progress, but media science tech articles do a really shitty job of over-promising, or rather leaving out the unexciting details. And tech journals don't become popular if they aren't vague enough to allow people to imagine a few details for themselves. It wouldn't be nearly as interesting to read if it had a forewarning that the topic of the article has been proposed, it'll finally be built in 10 years, and may be able to be produced in 30 years.

I don't have specific numbers to back it up, but I'd be willing to bet that it isn't feasible to transport gold back to earth, even without any labor. Just the transportation costs alone would be a few times the cost of the precious metals. Robot space mining makes a really cool scifi story, but when we do get around to it, it'll probably be for the purpose of getting water, rather than metals.

If you click the link and read the paper, it's actually all the numbers to show it's feasible, and practical.

This isn't a link to a news site, but directly to a research paper.
SaltySpitoon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142
Merit: 1762


Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?


View Profile
November 12, 2018, 03:48:20 AM
Merited by Foxpup (3), paxmao (2)
 #11

We are at the point where expanded space technologies are becoming viable, but not feasible.  Its progress, but media science tech articles do a really shitty job of over-promising, or rather leaving out the unexciting details. And tech journals don't become popular if they aren't vague enough to allow people to imagine a few details for themselves. It wouldn't be nearly as interesting to read if it had a forewarning that the topic of the article has been proposed, it'll finally be built in 10 years, and may be able to be produced in 30 years.

I don't have specific numbers to back it up, but I'd be willing to bet that it isn't feasible to transport gold back to earth, even without any labor. Just the transportation costs alone would be a few times the cost of the precious metals. Robot space mining makes a really cool scifi story, but when we do get around to it, it'll probably be for the purpose of getting water, rather than metals.

If you click the link and read the paper, it's actually all the numbers to show it's feasible, and practical.

This isn't a link to a news site, but directly to a research paper.

I read a few pages up to the point where the plan was done being laid out, and resident expert on drone asteroid mining, Bill Gates was referenced. I figure at that point, its filler.

I'm disagreeing, and qualifying the paper as the type that leaves out the unexciting details. It may be theoretically possible, but it leaves out some inconvenient details like how far out the time frame would be to make it possible. In its credit, it does mention that they expect it'll take 2-4 decades to actually put into place once the international community comes together on it. But it doesn't provide a time frame for creating the technologies needed to do it in the first place. The concepts may exist, but if you don't have the machinery on earth to reliably manufacture the parts you need to get your project going, you need to wait for the manufacturing capacity to exist. If the leaders were convinced today, would it take 20-40 years to produce? Or 80 years, 40 to setup the manufacturing, and 40 to get it launched. People get a lot less interested in projects when they are more than 1 lifespan out. As someone who has written papers that are supposed to be technically factually accurate, but still pandering to people to gain support, its written like a template.

I'm not really blaming them, you have to do it. I just don't get excited by things like this, because I don't care about things more than one lifespan out.
paxmao
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 433


Spanish Community Translation and Strategy review


View Profile
November 12, 2018, 10:03:40 AM
Last edit: November 12, 2018, 10:17:30 AM by paxmao
 #12

I read a few pages up to the point where the plan was done being laid out, and resident expert on drone asteroid mining, Bill Gates was referenced. I figure at that point, its filler...

Isn't he now on the toilet business? I wonder what type of filler were they looking for for this paper.


...would it take 20-40 years to produce? Or 80 years, 40 to setup the manufacturing, and 40 to get it launched...

Absolutely, these ideas are far ahead of their time feasibility window, just as much as travelling to the Moon was on Jules Verne on his times. I am willing to dream about it, but not put my money where my dreams are.


Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!