My thoughts on why threads that are spam-flooded should be deleted on sight

[alani123]

If you visit bitcointalk's home page without any board filters, you will notice that many promotional threads, mostly from the altcoin boards, are filled with trash posting. One response after another, often hundreds per day. All done in an effort to keep threads in the front page. This has to end. Apparently altcoin promoters think it is a viable advertisment solution and this has created a black market and entire ring of spamming.

This market has to die. We need a strict approach on how SPAM initiators are treated here. Those that initiate the campaigns. Those that need then to promote their threads. Banning all the accounts that spam various threads might be a sisyphian task if we can't tackle the motivation behind it.


I think targeting the root of the problem would be to also punish those utilising this kind of spam for.their benefit. And since oftentimes altcoin promoters hire an experienced member of the forum just to post their thread, deleting the thread would be enough. Just in case somebody would say that the OP could be found guilty by association.
Deleting the thread because the spam is done in the first place for increasing visibility. If the thread is locked or deleted the ones who paid for the spamming get a lesson good enough, as it could damage the image of their project and have even the opposite effect. But the loose stance on this has created a black market for "pay me to spam your thread to the front page 24/7".

Mods, trust me, start deleting or locking threads where obvious spam is noted, and you'll see how campaign managers will start complying. Suddenly, as the word gets out, this market will die sooner than later.

[eternalgloom]

Oh what I would give to be able to clean up the entire Altcoin Discussion board...

It's not even worth it anymore to spend more than 5 minutes on writing a thread there, since most people just reply to the threads that have 1 measly sentence in it.

I've mostly given up on creating new threads in Altcoin Discussion, I usually post them to Altcoin Service Discussion instead. (that category usually applies as well)
Way less visibility of course, but the replies you're getting are generally better quality.

Bitcoin Discussion on the other hand has gotten better I've noticed. Sure, spam still gets posted there, but it's usually removed pretty quickly.

I do generally agree with your post, but if you report those kinds of posts, they usually get deleted.
Maybe just the Altcoin section in specific is dealing with a lack of moderators.

Or there's just so much crap, that people feel a bit overwhelmed to report it?

[mk4]

If you mean those generic topics with more than 400+ replies then yes, those threads do deserve a lock in my opinion as the replies are most likely just redundant anyway. I really don't suggest deleting them though, as people could potentially read them for knowledge.

I honestly think we should go as far as making the merit requirement of Jr member from 1 to 5, or 3 at least, just to potentially eliminate a significant amount of spammers. The good ones should rank up from Jr member to member pretty quick anyway. 1 merit is too easily obtainable as I think some of the newbies actually buy those merits from some sources.

Oh what I would give to be able to clean up the entire Altcoin Discussion board...

It's not even worth it anymore to spend more than 5 minutes on writing a thread there, since most people just reply to the threads that have 1 measly sentence in it.

This. It's really a pity. Though the usefulness of other alts like Ethereum are debatable, I've always liked reading about discussions about some alts and their potential use-cases. But yeah, it's pretty much just a spam subforum. Might as well rename that subforum. Unfortunately I'd have to go to Reddit r/cryptocurrency instead for slightly better discussions.

[Gloverwrt]

There is the risk that users start complaining about the arbitrary system of ruling in BT.
Most of these bounty/ANN threads require users to post weekly reports on the forum. This clogs up the boards and lead to mega threads with zero quality contribution.
If they are motivated to use a Google form it would lighten the load on the forum.

Also, since regular users barely return to threads which they started and which sometimes grow to spam mega threads, these can also be locked or archived by moderators.
There could be an unofficial system where mods use their discretion to decide if the discussion on a thread has effectively ended and if the thread had served its purpose.

There are lots of historical threads I would love to be left open and bumped often if possible.

[Marshall14]

We've obviously been over this time and time again,and it's irking that at the end of it all, discussions simply come to an end without a sort of inkling to a solution,and more so annoying it seems to go unnoticed...
"The AD section is an absolute spam fest",we have said that over and over again,and come up with one solution or the other, even if most ideas aren't consensual by all contributors to the topic,but that's what makes it a forum, different ideas from different individuals..

Sooner or later something really has to be done about it, be it 5 merits---Jr member,that would be a sort of stricter rule...
The 1merit to Jr member really had it's effect on the forum,but it seems to be fading off this days TBH

But most of those bumped threads are done by newbies,who are paid to do so, and they rarely really care about being merited

[jonemil24]

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I think targeting the root of the problem would be to also punish those utilising this kind of spam for.their benefit. And since oftentimes altcoin promoters hire an experienced member of the forum just to post their thread, deleting the thread would be enough. Just in case somebody would say that the OP could be found guilty by association.
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Mods, trust me, start deleting or locking threads where obvious spam is noted, and you'll see how campaign managers will start complying.

If there's no ICO bounty on the forum, I do believe that the spam, redundant, and plagiarized post will reduce drastically. Who knows, it might also eliminate scam ICOs if there is no dedicated section for them here.

Trust me @OP, no ICO bounty = clean forum.

[HODL2090]

I personally don't see the correlation between ICOs bounty and scam ICOs and how limiting one would stop or reduce the other.
ICOs is a complex, and although not always convenient, an integral part of the cryptocurrency ecosystem. And this is the largest cryptocurrency forum.

Trust me @OP, no ICO bounty = clean forum.

All the options are available to theymos, and he of course has considered the pros and cons.
A solution would be stricter moderation on ICO ANN threads, which constitutes majority if the posts on the forum.
There are lots of spam to get through, and we may need more hands on deck.
Users are encouraged to report, spam, pliagarism, and phishing links whenever they come across it.
We can put hands together to clean the forum.

[hilariousetc]

I honestly think we should go as far as making the merit requirement of Jr member from 1 to 5, or 3 at least, just to potentially eliminate a significant amount of spammers. The good ones should rank up from Jr member to member pretty quick anyway. 1 merit is too easily obtainable as I think some of the newbies actually buy those merits from some sources.

I'm all for making the merit requirements higher (to either become a Junior Member or get a sig - which I think should be ten merit), but this doesn't really solve the spam issue op is talking about. As long as there's benefits to having the thread bumped then it will continue to happen. As I suggested before, you could make it so posts from lower-ranked members don't bump the thread at all which should take care of the bot bumping. Also as I've suggested before, we could change the Alt Coin section up a bit and scrap the current format and make it so that to list your thread here you need to pay a fee and when you do you get your very own sub board. That should remove the need/point of bumping as it would be pointless.

[Karisma Black]

I think anyone has the possibility to report a mega thread for being too spammy.
Then it's up to the moderator to lock the thread or not.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

If you visit bitcointalk's home page without any board filters

How anyone can do that and still keep their sanity is beyond me, and since I value my own mental health I have to have quite a few sections on ignore.

Mods, trust me, start deleting or locking threads where obvious spam is noted, and you'll see how campaign managers will start complying.

I agree that would probably work as a solution, but I get the feeling Theymos doesn't want the mods to do it--and the reason I have that feeling in the first place is that he hasn't acted on any proposed solutions like this, and I'm pretty sure he knows what options are available.

All the options are available to theymos, and he of course has considered the pros and cons.

Exactly.  My personal solution is to put the whole damn altcoin section buffet on ignore, which I hate to do.  There have been some topics that were at least interesting in Altcoin Discussion, but even that section is a complete mess now. 

[Harlot]

I am only in favor of deleting/locking ANN threads to developers who support bump bots and spam fillers to their thread as this shows the abuse of the bump system in the forum. But for mega-threads I don't think it is a good idea on deleting their threads as some of the post their are actually have good points to make, deleting the thread right away will also affect members who are actually posting something good, the only thing they will do wrong is trying to post in a megathread when that rule happens.

[pugman]

I agree that would probably work as a solution, but I get the feeling Theymos doesn't want the mods to do it--and the reason I have that feeling in the first place is that he hasn't acted on any proposed solutions like this, and I'm pretty sure he knows what options are available.

Even if mods start thrashing the threads, those idiots would come here bitching about why their posts got deleted. So spam doesn't reduce, it only becomes more, it spreads like an actual disease. People will continue spamming in the boards they used to spam and then in the not so spammy boards like Meta or Reputation.

Remember when people lost their shit when mods went on a delete streak, and a lot of campaign participants weren't able to meet their requirements which led them asking questions like "Why mY poSt get removed?" ,"nazi mods hate me", and this: How to avoid deleted posts by Bitcoin forum admin when you join a bounty?.

It seems a whole lot easier when said, but actions speak better than words. 

[Lauda]

Deleting the thread because the spam is done in the first place for increasing visibility. If the thread is locked or deleted the ones who paid for the spamming get a lesson good enough, as it could damage the image of their project and have even the opposite effect. But the loose stance on this has created a black market for "pay me to spam your thread to the front page 24/7".

Mods, trust me, start deleting or locking threads where obvious spam is noted, and you'll see how campaign managers will start complying. Suddenly, as the word gets out, this market will die sooner than later.

How to win in one step: Hire a spam-service and use it on competitor's thread -> it gets locked/trashed.

[alani123]

Deleting the thread because the spam is done in the first place for increasing visibility. If the thread is locked or deleted the ones who paid for the spamming get a lesson good enough, as it could damage the image of their project and have even the opposite effect. But the loose stance on this has created a black market for "pay me to spam your thread to the front page 24/7".

Mods, trust me, start deleting or locking threads where obvious spam is noted, and you'll see how campaign managers will start complying. Suddenly, as the word gets out, this market will die sooner than later.

How to win in one step: Hire a spam-service and use it on competitor's thread -> it gets locked/trashed.

Which ICOs and altcoins would you see as competing? I'd say that all of them are competing with each other in a way or another.

Basically, if a thread is locked, it's position in the front page will be replaced by others. It would be very expensive to drown out the competition this way.

I am not aware of any instance of such framing up until now. But threads with spamming have totally been  getting locked or deleted, at least sporadically. So it's not to day that this couldn't have happened even with current conditions.

But even if it happens under a steciter moderation policy, one can't pay for spamming forever. A respectable manager could temp lock the thread to wait for the spam to end on their own and call to the admins for help, potentially turning the thread to self moderated. If they were the ones that had paid for the spamming , drowning it wouldn't be a concern to them.

[tmfp]

Deleting the thread because the spam is done in the first place for increasing visibility. If the thread is locked or deleted the ones who paid for the spamming get a lesson good enough, as it could damage the image of their project and have even the opposite effect. But the loose stance on this has created a black market for "pay me to spam your thread to the front page 24/7".

Mods, trust me, start deleting or locking threads where obvious spam is noted, and you'll see how campaign managers will start complying. Suddenly, as the word gets out, this market will die sooner than later.

How to win in one step: Hire a spam-service and use it on competitor's thread -> it gets locked/trashed.

Sounds better by the minute.

[stompix]

This has been discussed so many times and so many proposals have been made but it seems like theymos isn't planning on rushing with a solution. You could at least limit some of the spam by:

- limiting the bump effect to only jr members or higher
- limiting the bump effect to 15 or 30 or 60 minutes, or any other value
- limit the effect to x times in 24h (this could be abused)
..
- nuke the entire board 

[Lauda]

Which ICOs and altcoins would you see as competing? I'd say that all of them are competing with each other in a way or another.

People trying to market the same/similar thing are directly competing with each other.

Basically, if a thread is locked, it's position in the front page will be replaced by others. It would be very expensive to drown out the competition this way.

You fail to realize that these "bumping services" are very likely to cost small amounts. You could kill a competitor's thread by investing a couple hundred $, which is nothing given that projects are commonly having soft/hard caps in millions of $. This is why this policy wouldn't work; too prone to abuse.