SolidCoin v2.01 Released

[johnj]

What you want to check in the source is whether or not you're told the truth about the "greatness" of a design. So the idea is, if the design sounds incoherent in the first place, there's much less of an incentive to check the source...

So is this the new public stance of the trolls now?

Backing off from "validate, show us the source" to "we don't care to look at the source anymore"?  That's rather convenient and petty....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50673.msg603950#msg603950

I already addressed this earlier in the thread.  Now we're having the discussion we should have had at launch.  And most of the questions have to do with things outside the source.

Keep up.

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[Explodicle]

I purpose a fork with the following features:
1) Open source from the start, and
2) Controlled by someone other than RealSolid.

It would probably never be worth anything, but could be fun.  
We could call it FairSolidCoin, or I0SC, or LiteSolid...

[DeathAndTaxes]

Except by the time they see SolidCoin as a threat the people with the most money will be people who share the values of people like you and myself. There is only a limited amount of coins in existence and if they are owned by people with the right values then there is nothing a government can do.

"Most of the money" is irrelevent only concentrations of >1 M ScamCoins matter.  If you don't think the government couldn't buy there way into ownership well that is your most grand delusion yet.

Your argument that it makes it less secure than bitcoin is pretty stupid though. You do realize you need both MINING and MONEY to attack SolidCoin.

No you don't.  You just need money.  He who controls the control nodes owns the network.  You changes the block reward from 32 SC to 5 SC.  The control nodes enforced that decision.  Anyone who refused was using invalid client and thus blocked by the control nodes.  What ability did they have to block that change and keep mining 32 SC blocks?  None.  They could try but without the control node their blocks never became part of the block chain.

If government controls the control node (plural is dubious and obfuscating) they can halt the blockchain by refusing to sign any block as valid except their own.  You have completely removed the need for 51% control.

Today you have most (all) of the control money thus have absolute control over the network.
If in the future you have most (all) of the control money you will retain absolute control over the network.
If in the future the govt takes your buyout option and has 51% of the control money they have absolute control over the network.

He who controls the control nodes has absolute and complete control over the network.

Your actions in making unliateral changes to the protocol have provided proof of that.

[localhost]

Backing off from "validate, show us the source" to "we don't care to look at the source anymore"?  That's rather convenient and petty....

Hm, let's try to explain that more simply:
- if CH explains a great-looking design, then it's worth checking the source just to check that he actually implemented this great design and not something else
- if CH explains a crappy-looking design, then we can safely assume that this design is _at best_ what we'll find when reading the source (since he's not here to undermine his own currency, we can assume he exposes his design to make it look as good as possible). Or to put it in other words: it's not worth checking if it's not as good as described, if it's not good enough in the description in the first place.

Plus what LoupGaroux and DeathAndTaxes said.

[MrGaSp]

CH just keeps digging a deeper hole each time he opens his mouth eh? 

[makomk]

4) The change to payout rate ensures nobody except RS will have enough coins to have a trusted node.

5) I think that the existing trusted nodes can conspire to stop anyone else from becoming a trusted node. It appears that in order to be a trusted node, you need 1 million SC in a single address and you need to transfer it there in a single transaction. (Look at CTransaction::ConnectInputs.) If the trusted nodes refuse all such big transactions, no-one else can ever become one.

Also, it may actually be possible for RealSolid - or anyone else - to spend money in the trustfund accounts if they're clever about how they do it and if the account still has at least 1 million SC in it. It's not possible to use money from those addresses for anything except trusted block validation, and the first output of that validation transaction has to go to the same address that the coins originated from, but I can't see anything to stop someone from creating a second output and sending themselves some money at a different address.
Edit: Never mind, that won't work due to a check elsewhere in the code:

Code:

if(vtx[1].vin.size()!=1 || vtx[1].vout.size()!=1)   return error("VerifyBlock() : trusted block second tx more than 1 input or output");

Additionally, it appears that the code only restricts the minimum amount of coins that creators of trusted blocks must pay to RealSolid, with no maximum amount:

Code:

 if(valDiff<blockValue)                                              return error("ConnectInputs() : trusted tx p
ayment less than CPF");

[LoupGaroux]

When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.

[Bobnova]

4) The change to payout rate ensures nobody except RS will have enough coins to have a trusted node.

5) I think that the existing trusted nodes can conspire to stop anyone else from becoming a trusted node. It appears that in order to be a trusted node, you need 1 million SC in a single address and you need to transfer it there in a single transaction. (Look at CTransaction::ConnectInputs.) If the trusted nodes refuse all such big transactions, no-one else can ever become one.

Also, it may actually be possible for RealSolid - or anyone else - to spend money in the trustfund accounts if they're clever about how they do it and if the account still has at least 1 million SC in it. It's not possible to use money from those addresses for anything except trusted block validation, and the first output of that validation transaction has to go to the same address that the coins originated from, but I can't see anything to stop someone from creating a second output and sending themselves some money at a different address.
Edit: Never mind, that won't work due to a check elsewhere in the code:

Code:

if(vtx[1].vin.size()!=1 || vtx[1].vout.size()!=1)   return error("VerifyBlock() : trusted block second tx more than 1 input or output");

Additionally, it appears that the code only restricts the minimum amount of coins that creators of trusted blocks must pay to RealSolid, with no maximum amount:

Code:

 if(valDiff<blockValue)                                              return error("ConnectInputs() : trusted tx p
ayment less than CPF");

That last bit is brilliant, it means that RS can, in fact, loot the funds quite nicely.
Just tell one, any one, to send 1m coins for the trusted block fee instead of the minimum amount.
Presto!  CPF with >1,000,000 coins!
Now the CPF is a trusted node.

[Syke]

That a full peer review and testing of the code can be done in the first 30 minutes or so?

I'd call this a partial source code release. There were no makefiles, so there's no way to know if something is missing. Has anyone been able to build from source yet?

[makomk]

That last bit is brilliant, it means that RS can, in fact, loot the funds quite nicely.
Just tell one, any one, to send 1m coins for the trusted block fee instead of the minimum amount.
Presto!  CPF with >1,000,000 coins!
Now the CPF is a trusted node.

It might actually be worse than that, after a closer look. The payment is done in two parts: a transaction fee on the trusted node's payment which feeds into a coinbase transaction that pays out to the CPF. The code checks that the coinbase has a total value equal to the fees plus the amount generated, and it checks that the first coinbase output on trusted blocks goes to the CPF, but it doesn't seem to place the same "only one output" restriction on the coinbase part that it does on the trusted node's original payment. So a trusted node could in theory pay as much trustfund money as they like to whatever address they like in any trusted block they create, just so long as they make a token payment of a fraction of a SolidCoin to the CPF too.

[Raoul Duke]

That last bit is brilliant, it means that RS can, in fact, loot the funds quite nicely.
Just tell one, any one, to send 1m coins for the trusted block fee instead of the minimum amount.
Presto!  CPF with >1,000,000 coins!
Now the CPF is a trusted node.

It might actually be worse than that, after a closer look. The payment is done in two parts: a transaction fee on the trusted node's payment which feeds into a coinbase transaction that pays out to the CPF. The code checks that the coinbase has a total value equal to the fees plus the amount generated, and it checks that the first coinbase output on trusted blocks goes to the CPF, but it doesn't seem to place the same "only one output" restriction on the coinbase part that it does on the trusted node's original payment. So a trusted node could in theory pay as much trustfund money as they like to whatever address they like in any trusted block they create, just so long as they make a token payment of a fraction of a SolidCoin to the CPF too.

If that is true RealSolid should fix that and thank you for finding the bug. Or is it a feature?
Or you should just go ahead and commit the fix on github.(sorry if my git wording is not right)

[d.james]

I designed SolidCoin v2.0 so that it could protect itself against government threats, the highest level of attacks we may face if very successful. To me there is no point in............................................................................. ........

Please explain how exactly are you going to protect the network against government threats.

How are you going to prevent the government from physically taking over those "trusted" nodes?

Do you have a bigger sand castle than Bin Laden?

[Spacy]

Please explain how exactly are you going to protect the network against government threats.

How are you going to prevent the government from physically taking over those "trusted" nodes?

I think the trusted nodes are spread around the world, with backup nodes setup ready to go live when something happens... You can just copy the "trusted" wallet to a new server, install solidcoind, set the config to trusted-node-mode, and the network will continue... So the US-Army has to find the new location and send the special forces there, enough time to setup other servers...

[Raoul Duke]

Please explain how exactly are you going to protect the network against government threats.

How are you going to prevent the government from physically taking over those "trusted" nodes?

I think the trusted nodes are spread around the world, with backup nodes setup ready to go live when something happens... You can just copy the "trusted" wallet to a new server, install solidcoind, set the config to trusted-node-mode, and the network will continue... So the US-Army has to find the new location and send the special forces there, enough time to setup other servers...

Just one question... Why the US army? I think you should be more afraid of the Greek and Portuguese army.

[Spacy]

Please explain how exactly are you going to protect the network against government threats.

How are you going to prevent the government from physically taking over those "trusted" nodes?

I think the trusted nodes are spread around the world, with backup nodes setup ready to go live when something happens... You can just copy the "trusted" wallet to a new server, install solidcoind, set the config to trusted-node-mode, and the network will continue... So the US-Army has to find the new location and send the special forces there, enough time to setup other servers...

Just one question... Why the US army? I think you should be more afraid of the Greek and Portuguese army.

I don't think ALL of the trusted nodes are located in Greece or Portugal

[FlipPro]

Please explain how exactly are you going to protect the network against government threats.

How are you going to prevent the government from physically taking over those "trusted" nodes?

I think the trusted nodes are spread around the world, with backup nodes setup ready to go live when something happens... You can just copy the "trusted" wallet to a new server, install solidcoind, set the config to trusted-node-mode, and the network will continue... So the US-Army has to find the new location and send the special forces there, enough time to setup other servers...

Just one question... Why the US army? I think you should be more afraid of the Greek and Portuguese army.

Didn't you know we're always the bad guys. 

[johnj]

I think the trusted nodes are spread around the world,

What you think about the SC network is irrelevent.  Unless you're one of those trusted nodes, hmmm?

[Raoul Duke]

Please explain how exactly are you going to protect the network against government threats.

How are you going to prevent the government from physically taking over those "trusted" nodes?

I think the trusted nodes are spread around the world, with backup nodes setup ready to go live when something happens... You can just copy the "trusted" wallet to a new server, install solidcoind, set the config to trusted-node-mode, and the network will continue... So the US-Army has to find the new location and send the special forces there, enough time to setup other servers...

Just one question... Why the US army? I think you should be more afraid of the Greek and Portuguese army.

I don't think ALL of the trusted nodes are located in Greece or Portugal

Wait a moment there... You said the trusted nodes were spread around the world... If the US-army tried to come to my country for one of their special-ops I wouldn't be pleased and I would kick their ass myself.
The US doesn't own the world. Or do they in your own twisted vision of it? Because if the US can invade ANY country, so can Greece or Portugal...

Stop being so US centric, it annoys people, you know?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Additionally, it appears that the code only restricts the minimum amount of coins that creators of trusted blocks must pay to RealSolid, with no maximum amount:

Code:

 if(valDiff<blockValue)                                              return error("ConnectInputs() : trusted tx p
ayment less than CPF");

So much for the 12M being unspendable.  No maximum transfer from trusted node signing the block to RS wallet.

So if a trusted node "accidentally" sent its entire balance (or any other amount) to RealSolid well those "unspendable" coins would suddenly become very spendable.

[Explodicle]

Please explain how exactly are you going to protect the network against government threats.

How are you going to prevent the government from physically taking over those "trusted" nodes?

I think the trusted nodes are spread around the world, with backup nodes setup ready to go live when something happens... You can just copy the "trusted" wallet to a new server, install solidcoind, set the config to trusted-node-mode, and the network will continue... So the US-Army has to find the new location and send the special forces there, enough time to setup other servers...

"Once something happens" is too late. They have now sent soldiers to go meet your family and discuss your whereabouts. You will never see your children again if you refuse to cooperate.