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Author Topic: Is there no fix for the triple question mark in trust  (Read 255 times)
jackg
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November 14, 2018, 12:40:31 PM
 #1

I thought the triple question mark would eventually be fixed be we don’t seem to have even that lucky. It’s been like that ever since I’ve got here and I was wondering if there’s a way to fix it.

You shouldn’t trade with people based only on the scores their trust has, however, they are something we have in place so it would be nice if we could have it cleaned up a bit.

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November 14, 2018, 12:58:03 PM
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 #2

Yesterday I located 45 such cases when posting a Thread on DT2 Trust distribution. The detail is as follows:
Code:
trust               rank                userId    username                      lastactive          URL
???: -1 / +2        Newbie              989408    altpool-tech                  2017-07-14          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=989408
???: -1 / +2        Member              82132     AU                            2014-02-16          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=82132
???: -1 / +2        Hero Member         110699    BitJohn                       2017-11-07          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=110699
???: -2 / +4        Hero Member         156878    BITMAIN                       2018-05-28          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=156878
???: -1 / +3        Legendary           165142    bittaitaliana                 2018-04-24          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=165142
???: -2 / +7        Legendary           553066    BlockEye                      2018-11-01          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=553066
???: -1 / +4        Hero Member         795961    cryptoheadd                   2018-11-02          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=795961
???: -1 / +2        Member              265149    CryptoKilla                   2014-08-12          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=265149
???: -1 / +6        Full Member         107656    cwil                          2018-10-08          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=107656
???: -2 / +5        Legendary           131952    cyclops                       2018-11-03          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=131952
???: -1 / +2        Sr. Member          338329    darkx3                        2018-08-03          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338329
???: -1 / +2        Donator             41048     DeathAndTaxes                 2015-04-22          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41048
???: -1 / +2        Hero Member         40149     Deprived                      2014-03-14          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40149
???: -1 / +2        Hero Member         105195    DrahogErusiel                 2016-09-21          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=105195
???: -2 / +4        Legendary           349097    Gleb Gamow                    2018-06-16          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=349097
???: -1 / +3        VIP                 17548     Graet                         2014-10-14          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17548
???: -1 / +4        Legendary           89189     gravitate                     2018-04-16          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=89189
???: -1 / +2        Full Member         117290    grbox2001                     2017-12-11          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=117290
???: -1 / +7        Legendary           233989    IBGigglin                     2018-09-05          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=233989
???: -1 / +4        Sr. Member          411686    IronMarvel2                   2018-10-27          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=411686
???: -1 / +4        Legendary           72227     johnniewalker                 2016-12-20          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=72227
???: -1 / +4        Legendary           43085     juggalodarkclow               2014-08-11          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43085
???: -1 / +3        Sr. Member          148389    justbtcme                     2018-03-21          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=148389
???: -1 / +2        Hero Member         662310    Kolder                        2018-11-01          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662310
???: -2 / +4        Full Member         811840    Liad.Services                 2017-03-06          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=811840
???: -1 / +4        Hero Member         341982    mexxer-2                      2018-11-02          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=341982
???: -1 / +8        Legendary           138940    minifrij                      2018-08-27          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=138940
???: -1 / +5        Hero Member         52741     MPOE-PR                       2016-04-18          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=52741
???: -1 / +3        Hero Member         19534     MRBONG411                     2018-05-20          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=19534
???: -1 / +3        Member              533570    MrLehmann                     2017-08-21          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=533570
???: -1 / +2        Hero Member         265513    NattyLiteCoin                 2018-02-27          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=265513
???: -1 / +2        Sr. Member          149388    nbphuoc                       2017-09-12          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=149388
???: -1 / +4        Legendary           148037    niktitan132                   2016-10-20          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=148037
???: -1 / +2        Legendary           24792     Phinnaeus Gage                2018-11-03          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=24792
???: -1 / +3        Hero Member         265035    socal                         2018-02-09          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=265035
???: -1 / +2        Hero Member         88501     steelboy                      2018-10-23          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=88501
???: -1 / +2        Sr. Member          156892    surfer43                      2018-11-02          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=156892
???: -1 / +2        Legendary           147307    SwingFirst                    2018-08-28          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=147307
???: -1 / +5        Sr. Member          430758    TheAnalogKid                  2018-01-02          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=430758
???: -1 / +2        Hero Member         144117    topminingcontracts            2018-10-15          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=144117
???: -1 / +4        Hero Member         538922    TwitchySeal                   2018-10-19          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=538922
???: -1 / +3        Legendary           100039    winter                        2018-11-02          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=100039
???: -1 / +6        Hero Member         798632    Woshib                        2018-11-02          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=798632
???: -1 / +13       Legendary           101763    xetsr                         2016-08-22          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=101763
???: -1 / +2        Sr. Member          67194     zeeshanblc                    2018-04-13          https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=67194

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November 14, 2018, 01:32:12 PM
 #3

I thought the triple question mark would eventually be fixed be we don’t seem to have even that lucky. It’s been like that ever since I’ve got here and I was wondering if there’s a way to fix it.

Why do you think it needs fixing? AFAIK it's intentional. If someone had positive trust and gets neg trust but not enough to make them red they'll get the "undefined" score. It's a bit more complex than that but that's the gist of it. More details here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1066857.0

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November 14, 2018, 02:48:40 PM
 #4

I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.
This account for example, Koshgel. The user has +6 rating and -3 which I believe means 6 positive ratings and 3 negative. S/hes trust rating is red (-2).

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?
How are members in my trusted group rated?
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November 14, 2018, 02:57:23 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 03:08:40 PM by Harkorede
 #5

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?
How are members in my trusted group rated?

I guess it does, A users rating doesn't show automatically on users forum profile if given by just another user outside the DT List, Only a DT member ratings is shown, but others can be found on the user's rating history and should a claim be verified DT member will a user found guilty of mischief. So, logically every well referenced and proven scam accusation of mischief somewhat counts too.

The DT List/group is ranked differently, I'll check for the link.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust

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November 14, 2018, 03:01:02 PM
 #6

I thought the triple question mark would eventually be fixed be we don’t seem to have even that lucky. It’s been like that ever since I’ve got here and I was wondering if there’s a way to fix it.

Why do you think it needs fixing? AFAIK it's intentional. If someone had positive trust and gets neg trust but not enough to make them red they'll get the "undefined" score. It's a bit more complex than that but that's the gist of it. More details here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1066857.0

What about vod and anduck's trusts?

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November 14, 2018, 03:04:16 PM
 #7

I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.
This account for example, Koshgel. The user has +6 rating and -3 which I believe means 6 positive ratings and 3 negative. S/hes trust rating is red (-2).

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?
How are members in my trusted group rated?

Base on my understandings DT has given the privileged to give negative trust rating to a certain user if found out to be not trusted especially in trading. And on the contrary only DT also has the privilege to change negative trust rating to positive trust rating. I think this is how things work here and about the positive feedback given to other users that are not DT's are just a basis or reference for a users trust rating. Anyone could give a positive feedback to a certain user with just intention is to promote trust and confidence to a certain user but not the trust ratings because again only DT has the privilehe to do it.

Like to what you say that the positive feedback given to the users has nothing to do when a DT has given his feedback that for sure will record the user's trust rating. There are many DT's that you can PM to check on someone's activity if you think that they are scamming or promoting something that is scam. I bet they are attentive for this because they were users entrusted by the admins.

Nevertheless, if all of my understandings are right then one must be careful in trading with users with red trust rating because they are evaluated already with the DT to be not trusted. This is why their rule in this forum on evaluating trust rating for the users were very important. Thanks to them!

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November 14, 2018, 03:04:57 PM
Last edit: November 14, 2018, 03:17:38 PM by S_Therapist
 #8

I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.
Rating from DT members only visible to people's profile, by default though. You can always have a custom list. Anyway, @suchmoon has shared a link and it will be worthy for you to have a look.
The first score- Total rating. It also quite related to the time span from receiving the feedback. It also counts more feedbacks from a single user, imo.
2nd score- Number of unique negative feedback users. One may get 3 negative feedback from single user. The score will be 1.
3rd score- Number of unique positive feedback sender.

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?
No, afaik. It depends the time of receiving the negative trust along with the total number of negative feedbacks.

How are members in my trusted group rated?
If you include me in your trust list, all of my feedback will be visible to you.
Again, if you remove a DT from your trust list, you will not see the feedback in people's profile. It will be in untrusted feedback.
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November 14, 2018, 03:19:23 PM
 #9

I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.
I more or less understand how the system works, but a few things still perplex me.  I don't know if it was Theymos who designed the trust system, but I've always been of the opinion that whoever did is brilliant with math and creating complex algorithms but doesn't grasp human behavior quite so well.  I have my own reasons and opinions for thinking the latter, but the former is pretty obvious.

And yeah, those question marks have always just looked weird to me.  There ought to be a better way to visually represent a member who has mixed DT trust.

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November 14, 2018, 03:20:00 PM
Merited by S_Therapist (1)
 #10

I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.
This account for example, Koshgel. The user has +6 rating and -3 which I believe means 6 positive ratings and 3 negative. S/hes trust rating is red (-2).

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?
How are members in my trusted group rated?

Only ratings of the members of your trust list (or DT if you don't have a custom list) and yourself count in the score. Negative ratings have an exponential effect (2 to the power of number of negs) so in your example the score is 6 - 2^3 = 6 - 8 = -2

Detailed formula is linked in the post just above yours: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1066857.0

What about vod and anduck's trusts?

What about it? Anduck got a counter-rating so he's at 0 now I think (can't say for sure as I don't use the default settings).

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November 14, 2018, 03:36:00 PM
Last edit: November 17, 2018, 09:36:33 AM by S_Therapist
 #11

What about vod and anduck's trusts?

Negative ratings have an exponential effect (2 to the power of number of negs)
From this formula, anduck has a point of 7
If user receives negative feedback, and score is greater than 0, the below formula is applied.
from his first negative feedback-
He got 2 positive feedback.
Unique Positive- Unique Negative
=2-1
=1

In the case of Vod,
If user doesn't have any negative feedback,
For each positive feedback, user get 1 point initially, later, for each month it get +1, it increased up to 10.

Here are the stats of Vod's score- 142

Tomatocage- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Monbux- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
KWH- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Light- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
John- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Taras- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Haploid- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Stunna- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
The joint- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Hedgy- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
The Pharmacist- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Marlboroza- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Madz- 8 (Rating is older than 8 months = 8
ibminer- 4 (Rating is older than 4 months = 4)

Suchmoon- 28
philipma1957- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
cryptodevil- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Vod- 8 (Rating is older than 8 months = 8
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November 15, 2018, 02:28:34 AM
 #12

Suchmoon- 28
philipma1957- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
cryptodevil- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Vod- 8 (Rating is older than 8 months = 8
I see. So I better always stick in this section for more learnings and understanding about the forum technicalities. I was assuming that I knew about trust rating that I even state my opinion which is relatively wrong. Anyway, the explanation above was a simple terms for the trust rating of a user and it adds also how to compute the following on getting red trust qouted below. 

Only ratings of the members of your trust list (or DT if you don't have a custom list) and yourself count in the score. Negative ratings have an exponential effect (2 to the power of number of negs) so in your example the score is 6 - 2^3 = 6 - 8 = -2

Detailed formula is linked in the post just above yours: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1066857.0

Whoever implemented this idea has a brilliant thinking and in fact the trust rating in the forum works well. I saw more users in the marketplace with red trust and that obviously means that I have to stay away or be careful to do trading with them. Hoping for new comers to get with this discussions and for them to have clarified about trust rating.

Up for this thread.

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November 15, 2018, 03:19:35 AM
Last edit: November 15, 2018, 01:30:15 PM by Quickseller
 #13

The purpose of the triple question mark is to give an early warning of someone potentially starting to scam people via a long con.

If someone has positive trust, and receives a single negative rating, each positive rating will be worth a maximum of 1 point, and if the negative rating is insufficient to take the trust rating below zero, their trust score will be a triple questionmark. Assuming n is greater than 0, the sum of the score from all the negative ratings is 2n

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November 15, 2018, 04:24:52 AM
 #14

The purpose of the triple question mark is to give an early warning of someone potentially starting to scam people via a long con.

If someone has positive trust, and receives a single negative rating, each positive rating will be worth a maximum of 1 point, and if the negative rating is insufficient to take the trust rating below zero, their trust score will be a triple zero. Assuming n is greater than 0, the sum of the score from all the negative ratings is 2n

Triple zero? You sound like you need double A.

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