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smooth nobody
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November 20, 2018, 08:57:51 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 07:36:43 AM by smooth nobody
 #1

i've been in the game since BTC was at $20. when it hit $1000 and tanked to $100 my buddy told me i was an idiot for not selling. i'm glad i didn't. he also said something that caught my attention. he started talking about how the government and banks want to destroy BTC cause it threatens/competes with the financial system. he also believes the uber rich want to control it and profit through manipulation. seeing these massive price drops makes me think back to when it hit $1000. there seems to be a pattern of huge drops and then explosive growth. what if big players are trying to influence the market by destroying confidence or make massive amounts by pushing the price down so they can buy it up? coin base says BTC market cap is $71 billion. there are plenty of individuals and corporations who can straight up buy every BTC in existence. bezos alone is worth $160 billion and some banks are worth hundreds of trillions. it would not take much effort to flood the market cause a panic and buy it up. i've heard plenty of stories about wealthy business men stroking fears after WW2 so people would rush to sell and they were there waiting to buy. there are so many angles on why somebody would want to destroy control or profit from BTC. governments want control over everything and are furious individuals are making tax free money. banks and payment processors are pissed people are able to cut out the middle man which hurts their revenue. some people are so rich they don't even care to make more money off it, they get wet just thinking about how they can squeeze it and poke at it and twirl it around their little fingers. when you get to a point you have so much having control means more than having another billion.
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November 20, 2018, 09:31:24 PM
 #2

 Some people are like that, if it's possible, it's probably happening.
 As for those people manipulating, there's all types of motivations moving people, there are so many players in the game, we have to separate them by their tempers, hatreds, loyalties. A perfect game is improbable, even if we closed every loop hole, there would still be aspects we simply must trust are operating honestly, but what can be done is educating people to notice... and at the least take part in their own narrative upon noticing manipulation; help the attacker and make money? or counter it and make money?

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November 20, 2018, 11:08:06 PM
 #3

Actually that theory has been in circulation for years but the problem is that we don't have any evidence to back it up so it will remain a good 'theory' to talk about maybe in another 10 years or so. And because this is a free market, its really hard not to see that it can really happened, that's why this market is prone to manipulation and if there's someone who's going to benefit from the price going down, its the whales or those people who can tons of money and they can control the price whatever they want, they could be big banks involved as well. Everyone is in the business of making money so I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of act is already happening at this point.

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November 20, 2018, 11:14:50 PM
 #4

I think this is nothing new, many know of the existence of whales (uber richs) and the government trying to manipulate the market or destroy it, but bitcoin is designed to resist attacks if we unite as a community, we potentially have more power over them, because we are more and we have more investment, the problem is that people are led by the FUD, making them easily manipulable.

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November 20, 2018, 11:29:09 PM
 #5

Where is money there are all kind of people trying to take profit. We are seeing all kinds of frauds and manipulations since long ago and now it is getting worse because btc has sky rocketed.
Thing is that average crypto investor/trader have no clue what is going on under scene. Since price is fluctuating a lot there is a lot of money to be made on trade. You have all kinds of market panipulations by whales who can control price, you have all kinds of ICO scams, trading bots that can make trades in milisec etc. But as always average trader is not the one who is taking profits but big fish. We learned that crypto on paper looks decentralized but with all that forks and manipulation it is clear that there is no such a thing.
It is interesting to watch crypto development and where it will end in a decade.
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November 20, 2018, 11:40:49 PM
 #6

Yes, I realized that there is a conspiracy theory in this cryptocurrency world especially now when Bitcoin is falling hard and this trend followed by all Altcoins and tokens. I guess there are some groups that manipulate the Crypto to take some advantage from others.
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November 21, 2018, 01:24:08 AM
 #7

no conspiracy

the 2013 spike explained.
in 2013 ASICS were released. this made it more expensive to mine. as such some hobbiests stopped gpu mining and instead found it cheaper to just buy bitcoin instead of mine.
those with asics seen the price rise. and more hashpower went on the network, at the same time people noticed the price going up and seen that a up-cycle of the price/hashrate(which would increase the price further) so a FOMO event occured. this cause what should ave been a movement upto $250 turn into a $1200 speculation FOMO price rise.
then events like mtgox killed off the speculation and the correction down started brought prices down closer back to the cost of mining cycle

the 2017 spike explained.
in november 2017 VC's needed to buy BTC to pay out btc to certain private contracts. this should have only caused a temporary rise to about $10k to cover the contracts(which would have correcting down to a few thousand). but again FOMO speculation made it go to $20k. again unsustainable temporary and so it corrected down. this time the corrections was not sparked by an event, but purely because the $20k went too far up. that naturally it had to fall
asic miners added more asics during the 2017 period bringing the costs and mining cycle of value up to near the $6k area.. which is why the correction of $20k settled to the $5800 area and prices remained above the $5800 for the year (from november 2017-2018)

these VC contracts, some of which had a 12 month lock, thus ending november 2018 at which time the holders were able to spend finally.

the novmber 2018 price movement
as said partially due to VC contracts finally unlocked. but also last month. ASIC manufacturers started testing next gen asics. but this time they didnt want to push up the hashrate as they learned from shooting themselves in the foot in 2013 that a short term adrenalin profit rush ended with a 2 year limp(2014-2016 stagnant pricing). this time they are swapping 2-3 old asics for 1next gen asic. thus keeping the hashrate from rising, but still keeping the hashrate within range to continue making blocks on time.
using efficient miners they can lower hashrate and still make blocks. due to the way mining works and how they calculated stats to plan it out before hand.
EG not only is 1 next gen 2x more hashes(thus only needing 1 next gen per 2 old gen). but with boost they can perform hashes sooner. so able to do adjust hashrate further but still stay in the target zone of blocktime

so with less asics running means less cost = more profitable to mine below the $5800 value baseline

which along with the VC funds release was what caused dipping below the $5800 value line.
difficulty dropped meaning asier to mine= cheaper to mine. and again abl to profit at lower prices.

..
now all we have to do is wait for the plateau or hashpower to rise and the cost value cycle to change

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November 21, 2018, 02:13:05 AM
 #8

i've been in the game since BTC was at $20. when it hit $1000 and tanked to $100 my buddy told me i was an idiot for not selling.
you mean when it went to $1200 and fell to $170 Wink
and depending on the context you might have been an idiot for not selling. a trader for example not selling is a big ass idiot. but an investor not selling is not. in other words it mainly depends on your strategy.

Quote
he started talking about how the government and banks want to destroy BTC cause it threatens/competes with the financial system.
volatile price does not "destroy" bitcoin so this theory can not be correct.

Quote
he also believes the uber rich want to control it and profit through manipulation.
this makes more sense as we have seen the manipulation and the large amounts of profit that has been made this way.

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November 21, 2018, 03:47:38 AM
Last edit: November 21, 2018, 04:02:37 AM by wnfakind
 #9

Mt. gox this and that.. funny how really the only two crypto's holding up are XLM and XRP created by the same dude... who launched Mt. Gox.. wrap your head around this. "Banker's coin" nope future coins.. Disrupt centuries worth of organizations.. I don't think so, Jed figured it out.

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November 21, 2018, 07:33:59 AM
 #10

It's not a ridiculous theory as bitcoin will do away with government control and risk economic uncertainty. See if there are any whale wallets dumping hard with government like transactions

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November 21, 2018, 07:53:49 AM
 #11

... there seems to be a pattern ...

Oh, look! It's a cute little baby conspiracy theorist! Aren't they just adorable?

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November 21, 2018, 08:49:19 AM
 #12

That's not a conspiracy theory, that's the truth of life. Of course, the whole market is manipulated, but there are some clear patterns that we can use to understand where we go. For example, the previous bear cycle had a clear capitulation candle, but that's not what we see now (as we lack volume), so I may assume a warmup and a further drop.
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November 21, 2018, 08:56:53 AM
 #13

In near future i believe people will talk like this "my biggest mistake in crypto is not buying bitcoin when its under 10k usd" same with me regreting not buying bitcoin when it was under 1k, crypto is future all we need is to hodl it stronger in bearish like now

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November 21, 2018, 09:08:12 AM
 #14

meh, there is always ups and downs in the market and there is also always manipulation in the market, there doesn't have to be more than that with some hidden agenda behind the scenes. everyone is trying to make more money and/or accumulate more bitcoin sometimes some of them have more power to push the market in their own desired direction which usually are called whales. it doesn't have to be conspiracy theory though Cheesy

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November 21, 2018, 09:11:31 AM
 #15

I think that there  could have  been price a manipulation from whale investors where btc and the rest of the alts are diving very low. Most people are now hoping for a speedy recovery of the crypto market since people might be leaving in their involvement as investors if this dip will continue further.
 

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November 21, 2018, 09:56:15 AM
 #16

Conspiracy theory are fun, entertaining, but mostly they are just that and nothing more. I mean these are possible, but as long as we don't have proofs, then I'm not thinking about these possibilities.

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November 21, 2018, 10:08:23 AM
 #17


...


So instead of making a profit in 5K$, they could make a profit with 3K$? Also, the 7nm asic developed for Bitmain... is like having two s9 with the same electricity consumption so maybe it's 50% more profitable?

So after the release of the asic to the public, the price went down quickly and it will until 3k$-4k$ as the sending day approach?

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November 21, 2018, 10:20:28 AM
 #18

I think this theory is nothing new and almost everyone in this porum knows it, that whales exist, and they are a great team to make a lot of money by manipulating crypto prices. it is very easy for them to manipulate prices because they hold large capital and have great tricks to create panic in the crypto market.

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November 21, 2018, 10:46:17 AM
 #19

i've been in the game since BTC was at $20. when it hit $1000 and tanked to $100 my buddy told me i was an idiot for not selling. i'm glad i didn't. he also said something that caught my attention. he started talking about how the government and banks want to destroy BTC cause it threatens/competes with the financial system. he also believes the uber rich want to control it and profit through manipulation. seeing these massive price drops makes me think back to when it hit $1000. there seems to be a pattern of huge drops and then explosive growth. what if big players are trying to influence the market by destroying confidence or make massive amounts by pushing the price down so they can buy it up? coin base says BTC market cap is $71 billion. there are plenty of individuals and corporations who can straight up buy every BTC in existence. bezos alone is worth $160 billion and some banks are worth hundreds of trillions. it would not take much effort to flood the market cause a panic and buy it up. i've heard plenty of stories about wealthy business men stroking fears after WW2 so people would rush to sell and they were there waiting to buy. there are so many angles on why somebody would want to destroy control or profit from BTC. governments want control over everything and are furious individuals are making tax free money. banks and payment processors are pissed people are able to cut out the middle man which hurts their revenue. some people are so rich they don't even care to make more money off it, they get wet just thinking about how they can squeeze it and poke at it and twirl it around their little fingers. when you get to a point you have so much having control means more than having another billion.

Of course there are whales, the rich people, but I highly doubt anybody is intentionally doing things at a loss just for fun or to feel control so to say.. They can predict the market because they can move the market and that's a major advantage at making money in exchanges Smiley

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November 21, 2018, 01:51:51 PM
 #20

     I think there is a theory of conspiracy, but there is no clear evidence in this direction. The whole market is being manipulated. Everyone is trying to earn more money in a faster way. For "whales" it's easy to manipulate prices because they have the bulk of the capital and have extraordinary tricks to create panic among people.

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