Bitcoin Forum
May 27, 2019, 04:46:19 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.0 [Torrent] (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Do athletes like Caster Semenya have an unfair advantage over their colleagues?  (Read 139 times)
Pmalek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 952
Merit: 1033



View Profile
November 22, 2018, 07:23:22 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), paxmao (1), joniboini (1), acarli (1)
 #1

Introduction:
Caster Semenya is an inter-sex middle-distance runner from South Africa. She runs in the women’s 800m and 1500m.



She has won several World Championships and Olympic gold medals including:

World Championships in the women’s 800m:
2009 Berlin
2011 Daegu
2017 London

Olympic Gold medals in the women’s 800m:
2012 London
2016 Rio de Janeiro



I remember watching the Olympic Games 2016 when I first saw this athlete. She was one of the favourites and ended up winning the women’s 800m finals. The purpose of this thread is not meant to discriminate anyone in anyway. Sport is meant to bring us closer together but the 1st thing I thought of when I saw her is how is this allowed? How is this fair towards the other female athletes? She obviously had an unfair advantage in terms of strength, durability, speed and lean muscle mass and then yesterday I came across an interesting article about IAAFs new change of rules that actually confirmed everything I though and felt 2 years ago.


IAAF is The International Association of Athletics Federations. And The International Association of Athletics Federations has introduced new testosterone rules since 1st November 2018.

The new regulations require any athlete who has a Difference of Sexual Development (DSD) that means her levels of circulating testosterone (in serum) are five (5) nmol/L or above and who is androgen-sensitive to meet the following criteria to be eligible to compete:

(a) she must be recognised at law either as female or as intersex (or equivalent);
(b) she must reduce her blood testosterone level to below five (5) nmol/L for a continuous period of at least six months (e.g., by use of hormonal contraceptives); and
(c) thereafter she must maintain her blood testosterone level below five (5) nmol/L continuously (ie: whether she is in competition or out of competition) for so long as she wishes to remain eligible.

Events this applies for: 400m, hurdles races, 800m, 1500m, one mile races and combined events over the same distances.

The International Association of Athletics Federations believes its new rules will “preserve fair and meaningful competition in the female classification” because women athletes with high testosterone have an advantage of up to 9% over women with normal levels of testosterone.

It is believed that the new rules could slow Caster Semenya down by up to seven seconds if her testosterone levels were to drop below 5 nmol/L.

Research by the IAAF shows that in certain events testosterone does make an enormous difference. An IAAF report notes that “most females have low levels of testosterone circulating naturally in their bodies (0.12 to 1.79 nmol/L in blood); while after puberty the normal male range is much higher (7.7 – 29.4 nmol/L). Absent a DSD or a tumour, no female would have serum levels of testosterone approaching 5 nmol/L, but individuals with DSDs can have very high levels of natural testosterone, extending into and even beyond the normal male range.”

Such very high levels of natural testosterone can increase their muscle mass and strength, as well as their levels of circulating haemoglobin, and so significantly enhance their sporting potential.

“This evidence shows clearly that (at least in certain events) DSD athletes with levels of circulating testosterone in the normal male range have a very significant competitive advantage over female athletes with testosterone levels in the normal female range.”

I also want to point out that the allowed testosterone levels for DSD athletes used to be 10 nmol/L in the past before it was lowered to 5 nmol/L. Many of the medals she won stem from the period when the allowed testosterone levels were 10 nmol/L.

Increasing testosterone levels in women from 0.9 nmol/L to just 7.3 nmol/L increases muscle mass by 4% and muscle strength by 12-26%.



Do you think that she would have become World and Olympic Champion if she had the standard female testosterone levels (0.12 to 1.79 nmol/L)? Do you feel that the decision and rule change by the IAAF is fair towards female athletes or unfair towards DSD athletes? What is your general opinion about inter-sex athletes participating in women’s competitions?

I am going to share my opinion.

Even with the new rules where the allowed testosterone levels are 5 nmol/L, individuals with DSDs still have up to 5 times more testosterone compared to their female colleagues. She was born that way and she did not cheat or use drugs and illegal substances to increase her testosterone but still the fact is she has an advantage over all the other competitors, although not to a fault of her own. Taking all this into consideration I will have to agree with the IAAF and their way of protecting female athletes. Individuals with DSDs should in no way be discriminated from participating in competitions but they cannot and should not be allowed to have even a slight advantage because if they do then the playing field is not the same for everyone.


Used sources:
https://www.iaaf.org/news/press-release/eligibility-regulations-for-female-classifica
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/25/iaaf-testosterone-rules-caster-semenya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya
1558932379
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558932379

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558932379
Reply with quote  #2

1558932379
Report to moderator
1558932379
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558932379

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558932379
Reply with quote  #2

1558932379
Report to moderator
1558932379
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1558932379

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1558932379
Reply with quote  #2

1558932379
Report to moderator
PLAY OVER 3000 GAMES
LIGHTNING FAST WITHDRAWALS
PLAY NOW
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
odolvlobo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506
Merit: 1315



View Profile
November 23, 2018, 10:16:51 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4), Foxpup (3), paxmao (1)
 #2

It is not as straightforward as you might prefer. You can't just measure testosterone levels. The results are not unambiguous. Radiolab did a podcast a few months ago about this controversy: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/dutee

The crux of the problem is how maintain a policy of splitting people into male and female when there is no clear distinction.
Pmalek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 952
Merit: 1033



View Profile
November 26, 2018, 07:50:33 PM
 #3

I will listen to that podcast, thanks for that. But somehow I cant get this idea out of my head that Caster Semenya chose to participate in women's competitions because it is easier for her to be successful than in men's competitions.
acarli
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 191
Merit: 65


View Profile WWW
November 26, 2018, 08:47:56 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #4

From a medical standpoint, I say "yes, most definitely". Although I do not know his (or her) specific conditions, regardless the answer is yes. Here's why.
During his development, the circulating endogenous testosterone helped develop more muscle mass, bone density, and height. A rule of thumb is that men are about 10 cm more on average in height than females. This varies, but that is a quick rule of thumb. Here is a quick reference on differences in height in male vs females in different countries.

https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/height-chart.php

It is true, that in sports performance variations in men and women are largely based on height and mass and not sex.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/gender-differences-in-training-and-diet/

However, taking a full-grown male, who had the benefit of male hormones the entire life, and then removing those hormones does not mean that the height and mass have instantly disappeared. It is unfair to pit him against a woman who has not had those benefits.

Here is the best example I can think of. In the MMA sport, there is a man Fallon Fox, who was a man, and then competed in the women's division. He brutally beat most of the female competitors and raised the same question.
Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U4KGz72SEg

I am fine with people wanting to do anything they want as long as it does not harm others. Gender reassignment is not an issue for me. The only issue I have is when men compete unfairly in women's sports.


LTU_btc
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 634



View Profile WWW
November 27, 2018, 12:55:25 AM
 #5

Well, I have mixed minds about her. It's not her fault that she have high level of testosterone because naturale reasons. But it helped here to get big advantage against other athletes with normal level of testosterone. I think that IAAF made right decision, even if it looks like discrimination against Semenya. C'mon, it took maybe 10 years to found a way to prevent Semenya from winning gold medals.
I bring another case to this topic, even if it's completely not related to this story. Maybe you know Oscar Pistorius - Blade Runner without legs who killed his girlfriend few years ago. He participated in 2012 Olympics. But I can't understand how sprinter with artificial limbs made from carbon can run with other athletes. I think it's not fair fight.
odolvlobo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2506
Merit: 1315



View Profile
November 27, 2018, 07:09:39 AM
 #6

I will listen to that podcast, thanks for that. But somehow I cant get this idea out of my head that Caster Semenya chose to participate in women's competitions because it is easier for her to be successful than in men's competitions.

Isn't that the point of having separate competition for women?
Pmalek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 952
Merit: 1033



View Profile
November 27, 2018, 10:04:22 AM
 #7

Isn't that the point of having separate competition for women?

It is if only women are meant to participate in them. But not everybody declaring themselves as women are women. At least not from a biological/medical point of view even though that sound harsh.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!