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Question: Interested?
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Author Topic: Considering Dev of a Bitcoin Hardwallet  (Read 3265 times)
PR06AM3R
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March 09, 2014, 02:55:03 AM
 #1

Essentially I've been toying with making a Bitcoin hardwallet myself what with none having been released yet and those that are going for well over $150 with no real estimate as to release anyway. All I'm thinking at the moment is a simple Raspberry or pcDuino with a touchscreen thrown on. It would be run on a minimalistic Linux distro blocking all ports except those affiliated with the Bitcoin Network and disabling any access to the general Internet. Running Armory for easy backup to USB and Cold Storage via USB/SD or Paper Wallets and allowing Wifi for easy transactions without the pain of Offline Signing. Currently looking at about $70-90 depending on the components. Just trying to get a feel if this is too high for people or whether it's reasonable. I wouldn't be putting in a huge profit on each since I don't want to be like the guys selling them for huge amounts, rather this be a step for Bitcoin as a whole providing an easy way for people to trade with Bitcoin securely. Thinking a $20 markup at the most, seem fair?

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PR06AM3R
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March 12, 2014, 11:43:25 AM
 #2

Would anyone have any input as to whether they see this as being useful. The whole idea of this is to simply get a product out there that allows users to feel safe in the knowledge that their bitcoins are safe in a dedicated and secure device while allowing mobile transactions anywhere that there is Wifi. Allowing people to take their bitcoins with them wherever they go and make purchases easily, like ordering a coffee.

Would having the blockchain already downloaded on to the device threaten people's trust in it? I would delete the wallet.dat file to ensure people don't use the wallet on their thinking it's unique forcing the wallet to generate new when they open the client however I could see how any opening or manipulation of the Bitcoin files may seem suspicious.
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March 12, 2014, 11:49:21 AM
 #3

my answer to your questions and what i think about hardware wallets is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=511725.msg5655817#msg5655817

in a few words: I think they will only be successful if they have a wide spread, cheap and reliable internet connection, cognitive radio would be the best solution.
PR06AM3R
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March 12, 2014, 11:54:53 AM
 #4

The problem with this is that it isn't widespread enough to be reliable. I'm not trying to revolutionise the world. Just make using Bitcoin easier and more secure for the majority of people.

If you're saying you'd need a hotspot to actually use this most people's phone have Hotspot capabilities.
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March 12, 2014, 12:03:34 PM
 #5

i already use a raspberry pi as my wallet store, and only plug it into the internet to move some funds from cold wallet to a small hotwallet.

even though its smaller then a whole laptop, i still find it a pain in the neck to plug in, load the OS then send funds.

but something more like this:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TgbH7chcL._SY300_.jpg

could be more useful

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March 12, 2014, 12:04:21 PM
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The problem with this is that it isn't widespread enough to be reliable. I'm not trying to revolutionise the world. Just make using Bitcoin easier and more secure for the majority of people.

If you're saying you'd need a hotspot to actually use this most people's phone have Hotspot capabilities.

Why would I need a hardware wallet if my android wallet is just as good?

If ur creating it for cold storage how can u gauarntee reliability?

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March 12, 2014, 12:16:15 PM
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i already use a raspberry pi as my wallet store, and only plug it into the internet to move some funds from cold wallet to a small hotwallet.

even though its smaller then a whole laptop, i still find it a pain in the neck to plug in, load the OS then send funds.

but something more like this:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TgbH7chcL._SY300_.jpg

could be more useful

That's the point of the WiFi and touchscreen. No plugging shit in, no having to worry about bulk of carrying around a mouse or keyboard and no worrying about having to have another hotwallet since it should be secure enough on the device as is to use for transactions. I'll also be throwing in an onboard battery since without it it kind of defeats the entire mobile idea of it.

Why would I need a hardware wallet if my android wallet is just as good?

If ur creating it for cold storage how can u gauarntee reliability?

Because android has had a few issues with security and it's a pain to backup your wallets off a phone. Especially those without SD support. It's not true cold storage since it'd be online however it'd have all the ports blocked that arn't related directly to the network as well as running off Linux with internet and all that shit disabled. Also allowing people to easily backup wallets via USB or SD should the shit hit the fan.
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March 12, 2014, 02:10:06 PM
 #8

Any features people would want?
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March 12, 2014, 03:38:38 PM
Last edit: March 12, 2014, 03:57:55 PM by franky1
 #9

OP if using a raspberry PI. your forgetting two things.
1. power (imagine carrying large battery pack)
2. power switch.
3. camera for QR codes

now imagine your raspberry pi with the touchscreen, camera and a batterypack. even layered ontop of each other its still an inch thick.

where as using a cheap ipaq/under $40 cell phone and reprogramming/rooting it to change the OS to a more secure specification is much better. plus it comes with a camera built into it for QR code scanning

simply find a rootable phone/PDA, put ubunto on it (whichever version you prefer) job 98% done for your prototype


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March 12, 2014, 03:52:48 PM
 #10

While the idea of a hardwallet is of course a good one, I'm not really into idea of connecting them to the internet directly in any way for obvious security reasons.

I've thought about building something like the Trezor myself but with added Bluetooth so it can be used for signing wirelessly.
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March 12, 2014, 06:59:10 PM
 #11

wanna listen to one of my safer idea?
Make a client on all machines that communicates with QR code input.
And your hardwallet generates private key SIGNED special code with the qr code for the client to read, and the client just relay the message to the QT.
client will keep track of the public key and can be used to check the balance, and send necessary information through QR code back to your hard wallet so it know which block to sign.

Cumbersome but secure, as the hard wallet is taking very limited input and outputs and cannot be accessed any way but physically.

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PR06AM3R
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March 13, 2014, 02:41:45 PM
 #12

While the idea of a hardwallet is of course a good one, I'm not really into idea of connecting them to the internet directly in any way for obvious security reasons.

I've thought about building something like the Trezor myself but with added Bluetooth so it can be used for signing wirelessly.
Shouldn't be an issue with ports blocked and no internet access.

wanna listen to one of my safer idea?
Make a client on all machines that communicates with QR code input.
And your hardwallet generates private key SIGNED special code with the qr code for the client to read, and the client just relay the message to the QT.
client will keep track of the public key and can be used to check the balance, and send necessary information through QR code back to your hard wallet so it know which block to sign.

Cumbersome but secure, as the hard wallet is taking very limited input and outputs and cannot be accessed any way but physically.
Like I said I want this to be easy and mobile not for the incredibly paranoid seeking utmost security. This would be fine for home transactions however is still a pain and would not be as portable. Just seems overkill when a hardwallet like this should be secure enough.

OP if using a raspberry PI. your forgetting two things.
1. power (imagine carrying large battery pack)
2. power switch.
3. camera for QR codes

now imagine your raspberry pi with the touchscreen, camera and a batterypack. even layered ontop of each other its still an inch thick.

where as using a cheap ipaq/under $40 cell phone and reprogramming/rooting it to change the OS to a more secure specification is much better. plus it comes with a camera built into it for QR code scanning

simply find a rootable phone/PDA, put ubunto on it (whichever version you prefer) job 98% done for your prototype
I was actually looking at this however most phones are simply ugly and are difficult for it to reprogram a new OS onto like Linux. To be honest I also liked the idea of it being usable as true cold storage as well with no inbuilt WiFi though the price seems to be quite large for the components.

However if anyone knows of a device with a camery, battery, possible wifi and touchscreen that is able to support Linux for under $100 please tell me as that would be amazing.
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March 13, 2014, 06:17:02 PM
 #13

Someone make a wallet app for the Nokia N900 and you would have the perfect hardware wallet/phone/internet device.
compubinks
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March 13, 2014, 07:46:21 PM
 #14

Closest thing I see that is rootable would be an Acer Iconia B1 Tablet.

Refurbished for $91.67
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8894511&CatId=6957

New for $117.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834314170

Just a thought.
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March 15, 2014, 11:33:08 AM
 #15

Essentially I've been toying with making a Bitcoin hardwallet myself what with none having been released yet and those that are going for well over $150 with no real estimate as to release anyway.

Search harder. S.NSA's Cardano, for instance, is currently in development and scheduled for demos next month. Of course, this'd be slanted rather hard on the security side of things. But of course, why'd you bother with something that wasn't?

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March 15, 2014, 09:32:14 PM
 #16

Cardano is not a hardware wallet.

PR06AM3R
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March 16, 2014, 12:58:44 PM
 #17

Cardano is not a hardware wallet.
Thankyou for actually reading the thread. Tongue
Essentially I've been toying with making a Bitcoin hardwallet myself what with none having been released yet and those that are going for well over $150 with no real estimate as to release anyway.

Search harder. S.NSA's Cardano, for instance, is currently in development and scheduled for demos next month. Of course, this'd be slanted rather hard on the security side of things. But of course, why'd you bother with something that wasn't?
You realise this is in no way related to what I'm trying to do. Either you don't understand the product and what it's doing (merely GPG signing) or you don't understand what I'm doing. Either way that is not this.

Edit: Also like to mention the fact that you're obviously advertising or are one of the people behind it due to you're thread about it in Oct. Is it still ready for a Xmas release of last year?

For the life of me cannot find a small smartphone or tablet that can run Linux. Anyone able to think of any?
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March 16, 2014, 02:02:36 PM
 #18

For the life of me cannot find a small smartphone or tablet that can run Linux. Anyone able to think of any?

IMHO a cheap android tablet/phone that you trim down with your custom Android version could be an option - f.e. http://dx.com/p/a13-7-capacitive-touch-screen-android-4-0-tablet-pc-w-tf-camera-wi-fi-g-sensor-white-148468

something else to investigate (but then reading/speaking Chinese could help), a generic feature phone that you'll be able to reflash - f.e. http://elovo.en.alibaba.com/product/1454085431-0/popular_small_size_2_4_Linux_feature_phone_for_sale.html ; or other cheap stuff from Mediatek - http://elinux.org/images/9/9a/Getting_the_First_Open_Source_GSM_Stack_in_Linux.pdf

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