Dorian, Bitcoin, and NSA

[christiancoin]

These are simply my thoughts.

In light of recent information provided by Snowden, I believe we should all at least consider any theories that might have value.  We should also pause when labeling a theory crazy or a person a "conspiracy theorist."  Mr. Snowden revealed that the "fanatical" theories of a decade ago weren't so fanatical after all.  

Bitcoin and the NSA

It is certainly not a stretch to think that the NSA was involved in the creation of Bitcoin.  

http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm#Conclusion

This article shows that the NSA was certainly aware of cryptocurrencies and their possibilities long before Bitcoin.  I'm well aware that Bitcoin solved problems that weren't solved in this study, and I'll get to that later.

So it's clear they knew about the "possibilities" associated with a cryptocurrency.  But wait, what are the possibilities of a cryptocurrency for the NSA?  We are talking about the NSA doing research on a "currency" and not a financial branch of the government.  The NSA has no core purpose for a currency other than to fulfill its ultimate purpose...monitoring.

What better way to monitor transactions than a public ledger?  Especially a public ledger that has an illusion of anonymity.  

So, you give it the illusion of anonymity, but you provide a way to ultimately track if it's converted to cash.  How do you do that?  You don't label it a currency.  You create a new label.  The new label requires a money transmitter's license.  I'm sure many of us have looked at the requirements for a license and understand how it limits the number of people/companies that can fulfill these requirements.  FinCEN limited the number of companies to monitor and I can assure you the AML reporting requirements are heavy.

Why wouldn't the government just crush Bitcoin?  Please don't tell me that they couldn't if they wanted to.  They might not be able to stop it, but they could cripple it enough during this stage to put its future in jeopardy.  They could outlaw it, bash it in the media (as if they aren't already...but I believe I know why), and give it an even worse reputation making legit U.S. businesses turn from it.  It might not kill it, but it would hurt.  Not to mention the pressure they would put on the many governments they give money to to make it illegal as well.  Don't think those things don't happen.

In my humble opinion, I believe this started as an NSA project.  It started to track the movement of money.  Only they aren't just trying to track the movement of money to make arrests.  However, that's a topic I won't discuss.

We have a situation now, where I believe Bitcoin has evolved past their expectations.  What started as a project has become a successful one.  Now, banks (i.e. J.P. Morgan) are scrambling to figure out how to get in.  They realize they are at risk of being squeezed out.  They are getting patents, and I'm sure lobbying to get laws passed that will help them fit in.  Of course, it will be under the disguise of protecting us.  The big, more established banks will of course be able to "protect" us better (sarcasm).

Where does Dorian fit in?

In my OPINION, I believe Dorian is Satoshi.  I just don't believe Satoshi is a person.  I believe it is a group...the NSA.  I believe Dorian (Satoshi) was a component of the group.  I do believe he was a key component.  I believe Dorian solved the previously mentioned problems that were absent in the original NSA cryptocurrency study.  I am NOT a computer person, but I do know the blockchain was a significant contribution that solved previous problems.  I'm sure there are many others well above my head.

The point is that Dorian clearly had an avenue to showcase his skills before the NSA.  He worked in a field that involved cryptography (to the best of my knowledge...please don't blast me if I'm not technically correct) and for a company clearly involved with the NSA.  He also worked on classified projects.  I believe this eccentric man solved some of the problems and became the name they gave the person who created it.  I'm not sure if they didn't realize what that could lead to (highly unlikely), or they simply thought they could create enough doubt if he ever was found (and it was a big deal).

Of course Dorian denies he created Bitcoin.  I wouldn't expect any other thing.  Him acting like he can't speak English well, calling it Bitcom, or any of those other things don't matter to me much either.  It is INCONCEIVABLE that Satoshi wouldn't have rehearsed how he was going to act if someone questioned him or revealed him.  I would certainly have played out the scenario in my head many times.

I've read the blog where a crepe shop claims that Dorian is someone who used Bitcoin in 2011 at their shop.  I was suspicious at first, but it looks as though they at least have a confirmed Bitcoin transaction from around the time for approximately the amount stated.  It's just one piece, but it is interesting.  I know that the Bitcoins in the transaction might not trace to a known Satoshi address, but is it at all possible that he mined some along the way in various addresses?  I'm seriously asking.  Couldn't he have mined some before 2011 without it being clear to everyone it was him?  I can tell by how smart the people are on this forum that someone will surely be able to tell me.

If the NSA was involved, Dorian might not even have any or many Bitcoins.  Think about it...how many people want neither money, nor fame, nor recognition?  There have been few people like that throughout history.  Satoshi could be one of them, but looking at the leadership in this world, the possibility of someone wanting none of those "benefits" of such an astounding creation are slim.  The possibility of a group that has other benefits to gain from such a wonderful creation would be willing to turn away from money, fame, and prestige is much more likely.  Not many humans could.  The NSA would be willing and able to hold ~4% of the currency in case of serious success.  They are also clearly not concerned with fame.

Dorian agreed to have his name used thinking it wouldn't amount to much.  I'm not sure if he could have possibly realized what would come of this.  The post under Satoshi's account was Dorian in a panic (or whomever actually communicated as Satoshi) or under directions from people quickly capable of telling him how to provide doubt to the public.  The fact that it was released so quickly showed diversion.  I'm not sure I care that it wasn't signed.  I look at it like this, why in the world would someone just then hack into his account and become active.  In my short time on this forum, I've already seen scams beyond what I had imagined.  These scammers and hackers are quick with their plans.  It is inconceivable that a person who could hack that account and likes playing jokes would wait until this.  He/she would have no idea of this coming in the future and would have surely used those skills to gain access prior to this exact moment and fulfilled his/her kicks for playing with people.  Notice how short the message is.  It gives no room for evaluation.  It is to distract.  It is meant to place enough doubt that people will continually argue...grow the legend...and no one will really know what the truth is amongst the convoluted mess.  If Satoshi really cared enough to release that message in Dorian's defense, surely he would do a follow up to squash all doubt and protect Dorian.

I could go on and on, but I'm sure I've violated many forum rules already.  I'm new to forums, and I respect all constructive comments.  I'll probably ignore rude ones much like I would in person.  Once again, these are my OPINIONS.  If you don't agree then that's okay.  I'll listen.  I like to figure things out, and if you have something useful then I'd love to hear it.

[Joshuar]

I haven't read through the whole thing because it's so damn long..but I did skim through and I can say I agree if Satoshi is connected to any government agency with the creation of Bitcoin, they might not even allow him to use the Bitcoins he/they mined.

[christiancoin]

I haven't read through the whole thing because it's so damn long..but I did skim through and I can say I agree if Satoshi is connected to any government agency with the creation of Bitcoin, they might not even allow him to use the Bitcoins he/they mined.

I got carried away.  I noticed and stopped.  That's why it ends so abruptly. 

[mjc]

Anything is possible.  I love the argument that Bitcoin is the currency of the under world.  More guns, drugs, sex and other evil are paid for with the US Dollar, which is far more difficult to track. 

I would not put it past the government or the NSA to create it in an effort to track money movement. 

That said I don't believe that they did.  If they did why did it take an accidental find (fake passports) to bring down  Silk Road?  If they have the ability to track, but don't use it in an effort to not let it out of the bag then what good is it?

[slaveforanunnak1]

Take a look at this reddit topic.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zx5la/this_may_be_a_dumb_question_but_im_going_to_ask/

[christiancoin]

Anything is possible.  I love the argument that Bitcoin is the currency of the under world.  More guns, drugs, sex and other evil are paid for with the US Dollar, which is far more difficult to track. 

I would not put it past the government or the NSA to create it in an effort to track money movement. 

That said I don't believe that they did.  If they did why did it take an accidental find (fake passports) to bring down  Silk Road?  If they have the ability to track, but don't use it in an effort to not let it out of the bag then what good is it?

Those are good questions.  I was under the impression Silk Road was brought down by a mistake in a forum, but that's a side point.  I have two possibilities and they aren't mutually exclusive.  For this to take off in illegal activities it must look as though it will succeed in illegal activities.  In other words...it has to work for awhile to gain momentum.  Secondly, it isn't to a point to fully track yet.  Sure, you can track addresses and make assumptions or occasionally link transactions.  However, the systems will have to mature to connect all dots.  That's where the classification as something other than a currency and the regulations associated comes in.  One more note...you notice Ulbricht didn't spend much.  He would have possibly been tracked had he.

[MrPiggles]

GCHQ are literally in love with bitcoin, I've seen a report from GCHQ which was basically raving about it's utility.

It's still possible to anonymise it, but a mistake is permanent and public and believe me for everyone who does it perfectly there are 99 other people who fuck up and can be traced.

[christiancoin]

Take a look at this reddit topic.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zx5la/this_may_be_a_dumb_question_but_im_going_to_ask/

I like it.  It looks like he is getting hammered in the responses though.  Many different concepts get bashed...at first.

[jonald_fyookball]

Interesting theory...

However,  Conventional wisdom would certainly say that the
Last thing on earth the global elite would ever want
to do, is start the cryptocurrency revolution and
challenge their own control over the issuance of money.
This would be death to the banksters that rule the US
Government.  But,it could have been something that slipped
Away from them.

However, if it turns out the NSA is behind Bitcoin,
I think it is better to have a public blockchain
if it means a return to honest money and the end
of federal reserve , fractional reserve, inflation and other
shenanigans.

And I think we don't even have to worry about that
because smart people are already working on
Anonymity features.

Btw the only way people would believe it, is
If the nsa signed a satoshi msg

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Interesting theory...

However,  Conventional wisdom would certainly say that the
Last thing on earth the global elite would ever want
to do, is start the cryptocurrency revolution and
challenge their own control over the issuance of money.
This would be death to the banksters that rule the US
Government.  But,it could have been something that slipped
Away from them.

However, if it turns out the NSA is behind Bitcoin,
I think it is better to have a public blockchain
if it means a return to honest money and the end
of federal reserve , fractional reserve, inflation and other
shenanigans.

And I think we don't even have to worry about that
because smart people are already working on
Anonymity features.

Btw the only way people would believe it, is
If the nsa signed a satoshi msg

I think you broke the 7-5-3-1 free-style poem format by including that last line, otherwise nice poem.

[christiancoin]

Interesting theory...

However,  Conventional wisdom would certainly say that the
Last thing on earth the global elite would ever want
to do, is start the cryptocurrency revolution and
challenge their own control over the issuance of money.
This would be death to the banksters that rule the US
Government.  But,it could have been something that slipped
Away from them.

However, if it turns out the NSA is behind Bitcoin,
I think it is better to have a public blockchain
if it means a return to honest money and the end
of federal reserve , fractional reserve, inflation and other
shenanigans.

And I think we don't even have to worry about that
because smart people are already working on
Anonymity features.

Btw the only way people would believe it, is
If the nsa signed a satoshi msg

These people think long term.  I'm not fully convinced they want to share a money system with "us" as the classes grow wider.  It seems they would much rather prefer a system that tracks for us and a cash/commodity system for them.

[MrPiggles]

lol, yeah the "global elite" "banksters" would never release a currency where from the beginning they owned 10+ % under one sole name (Satoshi) plus whales control the majority of the rest of it.

Don't the richest 85 people in the world control 50% of the money.

Bitcoin is controlled by the 0.1% too

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/03/forget-the-1-percent-in-the-bitcoin-world-half-the-wealth-belongs-to-the-0-1-percent/



Ooh yeah, currency of the people. lol

[christiancoin]

lol, yeah the "global elite" "banksters" would never release a currency where from the beginning they owned 10+ % under one sole name (Satoshi) plus whales control the majority of the rest of it.

Don't the richest 85 people in the world control 50% of the money.

Bitcoin is controlled by the 0.1% too

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/03/forget-the-1-percent-in-the-bitcoin-world-half-the-wealth-belongs-to-the-0-1-percent/



Ooh yeah, currency of the people. lol

It might be the .1% that owns them, but in my humble opinion it's the smart people...which ultimately divides further.  I could go into much more detail, but I'm not sure this forum is fully ready for my philosophies.

[bitrebel]

almost correct. But slightly off mark.
My thoughts.

from - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240095.0

In Spaceship Earth, Bucky lays out the grand scheme of change.
The Old World Order consisted of Kings and bloodlines who ruled the Earth.
These bloodlines built large ships to travel across the ocean and bring back goods and products, including foods, oils, cloth, and jewelry and gold and silver.
The Kings built their empires by taking from other lands and importing wealth via large maritime ships. These were the first Pirate Ships.
The Pirate ships had to be led by Captains versed in sailing the high seas, and thus the Captains and their crew were so depended upon by the kings and land rulers that they became subservient to them in the long run. Without the Merchant vessels being led by able Captains the Kings could not gain more ground, and build more wealth. The Captains of the ships, the Pirates became the new wealthy. They ruled the Maritime, and brought it on shore with the advent of Maritime Law, combined with Merchant Law and Equity. These were the new wealthy elite, the Pirates, otherwise known as the Freemasons.
The Freemasons built a solid, powerful empire on land, created all forms of governments, and created the most powerful, devastating force the world has ever had to reckon and deal with, the Modern Fiat Federal Reserve Central Banking System, which now loans it's imaginary credit to all nations, takes land, and wealth in the form of interest on those loans and preys on all people, behind the scenes, and in almost complete stealth. They are now the true rulers of man.
Buckminster Fuller wrote about how there is a new elite evolving on the planet since the advent of computers. Now, in this modern day and age, it's different than it was70 years ago. Today, the governments of the world rely on computers for all forms of communication, economics, banking, and most importantly, WAR!  But the elite money makers rely on one new group of people for their survival, the new technocracy, the technological crowd, the geeks, the programmers, the nerds, and the underdogs of society, to many. These "geeks and nerds" have no desire for war, they only want to hack, crack codes, and play games. But they are NEEDED by the banking elite to enforce the agenda of the New World Order.
So, while the bankers are busy funding government, funding war, funding surveillance and code breaking, the new technological crowd decided they would change the game, once and for all, COMPLETELY, and finally OVERTHROW the Old World Banking crowd, and institute their new form of democratic technology (technocracy) at it's finest,

and we now have "Bitcoin".

Goodbye Bankers, Goodbye!

 (in other words, .... They did it for their OWN ends, not to create a currency that could be tracked, but to create one they could use themselves, that COULD NOT be tracked.)

[christiancoin]

almost correct. But slightly off mark.
My thoughts.

from - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=240095.0

In Spaceship Earth, Bucky lays out the grand scheme of change.
The Old World Order consisted of Kings and bloodlines who ruled the Earth.
These bloodlines built large ships to travel across the ocean and bring back goods and products, including foods, oils, cloth, and jewelry and gold and silver.
The Kings built their empires by taking from other lands and importing wealth via large maritime ships. These were the first Pirate Ships.
The Pirate ships had to be led by Captains versed in sailing the high seas, and thus the Captains and their crew were so depended upon by the kings and land rulers that they became subservient to them in the long run. Without the Merchant vessels being led by able Captains the Kings could not gain more ground, and build more wealth. The Captains of the ships, the Pirates became the new wealthy. They ruled the Maritime, and brought it on shore with the advent of Maritime Law, combined with Merchant Law and Equity. These were the new wealthy elite, the Pirates, otherwise known as the Freemasons.
The Freemasons built a solid, powerful empire on land, created all forms of governments, and created the most powerful, devastating force the world has ever had to reckon and deal with, the Modern Fiat Federal Reserve Central Banking System, which now loans it's imaginary credit to all nations, takes land, and wealth in the form of interest on those loans and preys on all people, behind the scenes, and in almost complete stealth. They are now the true rulers of man.
Buckminster Fuller wrote about how there is a new elite evolving on the planet since the advent of computers. Now, in this modern day and age, it's different than it was70 years ago. Today, the governments of the world rely on computers for all forms of communication, economics, banking, and most importantly, WAR!  But the elite money makers rely on one new group of people for their survival, the new technocracy, the technological crowd, the geeks, the programmers, the nerds, and the underdogs of society, to many. These "geeks and nerds" have no desire for war, they only want to hack, crack codes, and play games. But they are NEEDED by the banking elite to enforce the agenda of the New World Order.
So, while the bankers are busy funding government, funding war, funding surveillance and code breaking, the new technological crowd decided they would change the game, once and for all, COMPLETELY, and finally OVERTHROW the Old World Banking crowd, and institute their new form of democratic technology (technocracy) at it's finest,

and we now have "Bitcoin".

Goodbye Bankers, Goodbye!

 (in other words, .... They did it for their OWN ends, not to create a currency that could be tracked, but to create one they could use themselves, that COULD NOT be tracked.)

Ahhh...someone is ready for my thoughts.  I agree with you.  I don't know the end or claim to.  I can't possibly think along the lines of these people.  I can only hope to put things together afterwards through critical thinking and project forward based on my beliefs.  I have several theories on how they will/can use Bitcoin to their advantage.  We have to remember...even they must react.  They plan actions to solicit reactions.  They can't be assured of the reactions but they can react to them.  

I definitely agree that they need the tech crowd.  Why not create Bitcoin to insure those are the people that survive?  Aren't the tech people primarily getting in?  Or at least people that are smart enough to understand it?  Why not create a currency that we can fight over?  While they have commodities.  

[bitrebel]

here is what I posted as a theory of conversation or thought.
BTW, I liked your post a lot. You think for yourself, at least, I can tell.



Bankers to NSA:  Okay, NSA, you can have some funding. We'll give you x number of dollars and we need to build a bulletproof cryptographic key system to keep all our military communications secret.

NSA to Bankers: Great, I believe we can work together. You'll pay us how much to do this?

Bankers to NSA: We'll pay you 500 Million dollars and each of your workers get's $250,000 per year.

NSA to Bankers: Sure, we'll agree to that.

NSA to NSA (Inside the Agency) : Can you believe this bullshit? We only get paid $250,000 per year and these guys create money out of thin air to loan back to us, AND we have to pay TAXES ON THAT!!!

NSA to NSA (Inside the Agency) : FUCK THAT!, let's build our own currency, and see how they like it!

Now, of course this conversation is hypothetical, but can anyone imagine that some computer geeks working for the NSA are going to actually believe in what the Bankers are doing to the world, knowing full well, they can build a better system, and replace them, and create their own funding mechanism at the same time?

It never had to be the NSA, all it took were a couple well intentioned geeks, with another agenda completely. A prankster or two, working inside, to topple the status quo, once and for all.

[bitrebel]

Regardless of who is correct about theories. You should definitely read Spaceship Earth by Bucky Fuller. It's a mind blower, for sure.

[AgentofCoin]

Interesting theory...

However,  Conventional wisdom would certainly say that the
Last thing on earth the global elite would ever want
to do, is start the cryptocurrency revolution and
challenge their own control over the issuance of money.
This would be death to the banksters that rule the US
Government.  But,it could have been something that slipped
Away from them.

However, if it turns out the NSA is behind Bitcoin,
I think it is better to have a public blockchain
if it means a return to honest money and the end
of federal reserve , fractional reserve, inflation and other
shenanigans.

And I think we don't even have to worry about that
because smart people are already working on
Anonymity features.

Btw the only way people would believe it, is
If the nsa signed a satoshi msg

I think you broke the 7-5-3-1 free-style poem format by including that last line, otherwise nice poem.

That isn't free-style poem format, thats NSA code format.

[christiancoin]

Regardless of who is correct about theories. You should definitely read Spaceship Earth by Bucky Fuller. It's a mind blower, for sure.

I'll check it out.

[jonald_fyookball]

Alt coins are a good thing, me thinks, to help
Create a more even wealth distribution...

Like someone said, wealth is always going to get
Concentrated, might as well be an early adopter.

NSA or not, crypto revolution is here to stay and is a good thing