Are Mining Still Profit?

[Indamuck]

Piskeante if your so sure of Eth going below $50 I would like to see the short positions you are taking.  But you are probably just a troll, doubt any serious investor believes that.  Mining is a brutal business and people always try to deter others from entering because that just means increased difficulty and lower profits.

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[Maxumark]

@crazydane

After reading your posts in this thread I would say that your systematic approach to mining, and using your resources at hand is sound and profitable.
Also your thought process and reasoning are also valid and supported by the data you provided.
Mine-On and keep doing what you are doing!

(not that you need any validation from me or anyone else)   

[smoolae]

You can still mine with some profit when your electricity is free or really cheap. What makes mining rather pointless right now is the initial investment you have to pay to start the mining game. You have to pay several hundred or even a couple of thousands of dollars (depends on the scale of your mining operation). The fact that you are going to be making back this money over some years is the fact that makes mining rather useless at the moment.

[Branko]

You can still mine with some profit when your electricity is free or really cheap. What makes mining rather pointless right now is the initial investment you have to pay to start the mining game. You have to pay several hundred or even a couple of thousands of dollars (depends on the scale of your mining operation). The fact that you are going to be making back this money over some years is the fact that makes mining rather useless at the moment.

Most funny thing I see selling on net is this

https://www.asicminervalue.com/miners/innosilicon/a10-ethmaster-485mh

ROI on that thing is what, 6 years?

[Maxumark]

ROI is not relevant to me.
Why? Cost of equipment is a sunk cost and written off against income reducing tax liability, and I already own it.
Return Over Expense is what is relevant to me.
If I spend $1 for power and get $1.36 today during the bear market this still works for me.
I understand that this in no Lambo money, but it beats going back to have a JOB, and a BOSS.
I also understand that this may not work for home or hobby miners, or people looking to start mining now.
  

[badbart]

ROI is not relevant to me.
Why? Cost of equipment is a sunk cost and written off against income reducing tax liability, and I already own it.
Return Over Expense is what is relevant to me.
If I spend $1 for power and get $1.36 today during the bear market this still works for me.
I understand that this in no Lambo money, but it beats going back to have a JOB, and a BOSS.
I also understand that this may not work for home or hobby miners, or people looking to start mining now.
  

You mine full time?  What’s your setup?

[Maxumark]

Mining full time for a few years. Set up: 1.5 MW Mining/Hosting facility currently with a load of 600KW including 12 card GPU rigs, and hundreds of various asics. Currently all sha-256 miners are turned off as the margin is too close for me on those at the moment. With SHA-256 running my load would be about 1 MW.   

[Piskeante]

Piskeante if your so sure of Eth going below $50 I would like to see the short positions you are taking.  But you are probably just a troll, doubt any serious investor believes that.  Mining is a brutal business and people always try to deter others from entering because that just means increased difficulty and lower profits.

I entered mining just about September 2017. Bought my 12 cards RX 570 and 580 at great discounts because they were returned equipment with no problems at all. My initial idea was to mine and sell (by that time made total sense for me). i made some nice profit. The 13 of July 2018, i said, (and it's in my signature since then), that the price of ETH would be 600$ at best by the end of 2018. Reality is that it went much worse than what i considered to be a bad escenario.

i laughed, and did it hard to all those MANIPULATORS AND SCAMMERS that said wait for the Bullrun by the end of the year. I knew this was not gonna happen. Reasons=?

1º The End of anonymity is already here. Governments are putting a lot of preasure on exchanges to give them the info of how much coins, personal info, and all of that. And those exchanges that are keeping privacy as a main red line, are being destroyed with regulations that will make them shut down.

2º From the begining, from the very begining i entered, i knew that REGULATIONS would destroy crypto. Because crypto saw a huge pump while it was unregulated. It was used for money laundering quite hard. Black net was using crypto to sell and buy drugs, weapons, buy all type of services. The moment all the info had to be given to governments, THE MOMENT ALL GOVERNMENTS ANNOUNCED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO INTRODUCE REGULATIONS AND LAWS ON CRYPTO, that moment was January 2018. And look where we are now.

3º Decentralization is absolutely dead. Crypto was created with the main idea, to give people the possibility to win money by helping develop the blockchains. Every chain that appeared, and could be mined, was instantly focused by MOFOS with ASICS, to destroy any possibility of normal people with their GPU to mine. By that time, we had coins that were not profitable mining NOT EVEN AT HIGH PRICES WITH GPUS, due to ASICS which makes my point.

50% or more of BTC miners are in China. How can you call this DECENTRALIZATION???

4º 99% of the people that invest in crypto, DO IT EXCLUSIVELY FOR MONEY!!! They don't care about tech, developpement. Anything. Every hard fork of coins, which in many ways implies better tech performance, is just ignored. Look at ETH. It has updated ETH to Casper , reduced profit for miners, less production of coins reducing the inflation, and activating the difficulty bomb, but hey!! it's going down. This also proves my point.

The first largest Altcoin IN THE WORLD, updates their chain with goodies and only 22% of the users update their chain. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??

5º the last, and probably the most important one. ETH had a cap in January 2018 of 134 Billion $. Now it has 13 Billion. What has happened to ETH, that has lost so much money on Cap?? Any problem? IN stock, a drop like this a BRUTAL BANKRUPT. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR THIS DROP TO HAPPEN, Except if there is MANIPULATION ON THE MARKET BY VERY POWERFULL PEOPLE.

The dumbest argument ever exposed and proposed here was to accept the idea that powerfull people were "bearing" the market to enter and then pump the hell out of it. The prices are low, were are those guys??Where are those "manipulators" dumping the coins to hell, and then buying?? Simple answer is : THERE ISN'T. The market is just in hands of very very very few people with a lot of money, pumping and dumping themselfs a hole market to make profit. we have seen it so many times, that it's impossible to stick to one. Every small coin that pumped 200 or even 2000% and then drop to almost 0 is a good example.

Talking about ETH, i want to note one question: How can we value ETH for what it is, and not what people say it is valued??? Only one way: saying the amount of smart contracts and the amount of money the blockchain is capable of generating. ETH core devs HAVE NEVER SAID THIS. If the market values the blockchain in 13 Billion right now, WHICH % OF THE BLOCKCHAIN MAKES MONEY???

I mean, if ETH is valued in 13 Billion, but smart contracts only make 1 Billion, ETH is over stimated by a huge lot. Would you buy ETH if you knew this??? If Core DEVS had ETH with smart contracts of more than 13 Billion, would you think they would use this point to try to hold the value of their own coin?? Reality, and truth is we don't know, BUT i guess the value in Smart contracts of ETH is way way less than what the market values ETH, which is INEVITABLY  a sign of market manipulation, and moreover, a sign , a clear sign of run away.

Am i a bear? NO. Am i a Bull? NO. I simply don't believe in this market anymore. i'm advicing people to sell all and leave. Everyone will evaluate if they can or can't do it according to the amount of money potentially lost in the operation.

If i were a Bear , with a lot of money, i can tell you i would be very very rich. I predicted (and it's in this forum if you want to see my point) 6 drops , 2 of them massive, in a row. i even announced it here. Don't go away too much. Just look at my post of which you answered. I told you that in this post: i said: Do they expect to see a pump in price?? 5 days with the ETH market moving flat. Indication that there is going to be sell pressure. Maybe today, probably tomorrow.  

Well, in the last 24 hours, ETH has lost a 7%. i expect it to dump another 4-8% more. if i were rich, i would have made a 7% profit in 24 hours. Don't believe me? just prove me wrong. See all my post (it's easy, just takes time), and you´ll see i'm not lying.

[dragonmike]

You have the right to your opinion, Piskeante and I am not going to speak against your points, I probably agree on a majority of them.

You first point however, is the most interesting one. The end of anonymity combined with government pressure on kyc etc.
Wouldn't that be a massively strong argument in favour of the good anonymous coins? The "Z's", the XMR's, the "BEAM's" etc of this world? I am a massive fan of VEIL currently. I'm getting as many as I can.

We might never see the huge influx of money into crypto we saw in 2017 anymore. Large firms are more interested in the blockchain tech than the actual crypto side of it.

But there will always be people who want to hide their tracks. I can't see privacy coins disappear any time soon.

[Piskeante]

You have the right to your opinion, Piskeante and I am not going to speak against your points, I probably agree on a majority of them.

You first point however, is the most interesting one. The end of anonymity combined with government pressure on kyc etc.
Wouldn't that be a massively strong argument in favour of the good anonymous coins? The "Z's", the XMR's, the "BEAM's" etc of this world? I am a massive fan of VEIL currently. I'm getting as many as I can.

We might never see the huge influx of money into crypto we saw in 2017 anymore. Large firms are more interested in the blockchain tech than the actual crypto side of it.

But there will always be people who want to hide their tracks. I can't see privacy coins disappear any time soon.

It doesn't matter if those coins are private or anonymous. You have to trade with exchanges, and those are BEING FORCED to say who is moving those coins, who much money they can get with those coins and all this. You can obviously evade exchanges and trade hand to hand. Which is what BTW is being done at the moment.

Governments can control exchanges, THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE EVADING EXCHANGES. The price "of the coins" is created on the exchanges. if there is no movement on the exchanges, it's considered as "no demand" so prices drop.  but this is obviously a huge manipulation on the market. And it's directly related to government putting their fucking noses on bussiness to "get their part" for nothing.

I absolutely agree that we will never see ETH at 1.000$. BTC will never be 20k $. That past situation has never ever happened before and will never happen again, because a huge amount of investors lost all of their money, and will never come back.

[Branko]

I absolutely agree that we will never see ETH at 1.000$. BTC will never be 20k $. That past situation has never ever happened before and will never happen again, because a huge amount of investors lost all of their money, and will never come back.

I think you greatly underestimate FOMO 

[Metroid]

Once crypto starts going 10% up then nobody dumps, then another 15% up and nobody dumps, another 20% and no dump yet, then we will see the fomo in action hehe which will take crypto to a huge bullrun which will range from 10 to 100 times rise in value. For fomo to start, it needs only a 50% price increase, if btc hits $5000 then you will see going to $10.000 easy.

[Piskeante]

Once crypto starts going 10% up then nobody dumps, then another 15% up and nobody dumps, another 20% and no dump yet, then we will see the fomo in action hehe which will take crypto to a huge bullrun which will range from 10 to 100 times rise in value. For fomo to start, it needs only a 50% price increase, if btc hits $5000 then you will see going to $10.000 easy.

i would agree with you if we were in 2018 January - March. But we are in 2019, and the situation of crypto is widely known. I bet your expectations will fail.

[badbart]

High pessimism is great for market bottoms  .

[Piskeante]

High pessimism is great for market bottoms  .

Another big lie in crypto, is saying that bottoms are used by investors to see the potential margin of profit they can make. If a coin will not go below 80, for example, this means you can buy at 80 and be quite sure that the coin will not fall below that.

go and see how many users in this forum have bought ETH at 500$ thinking it would not go below that. Moreover, if the market condition is like it is right now, i can assure you that noone is willing to pump the coins if afterwards, and apart from risk, they will have to pay from 20 to 30% taxes thing that didn't happen in the past (so you were more willing to take that risk for extra profit).

and another thing: watch out bears, the market is dying. If you keep dumping coins , making it impossible for bulls to succeed, you can be facing a disaster. This problem with crypto related to everyone watching for their own pocket not taking care if the market lasts 2 years or 2 weeks, just squeezing as much money as possible before it goes to hell,  reminds me of a scene that i personally saw in my country.

A company was giving away umbrellas for free on an airport a rainy day. The moment they announced it, people were getting 2,3 or even 4 umbrellas. They didn't care if there was people interested aswell. They only cared about them.

If you dump, and dump and dump, and always this way, you are destroying the market now, when you could just let it live for more. I don't understand this greedy bastards (the risk traders) doing what they do collapsing a hole system. Anyway, i don't care, i have nothing in crypto so get rekt (the market) if it has to.

[badbart]

High pessimism is great for market bottoms  .

Another big lie in crypto, is saying that bottoms are used by investors to see the potential margin of profit they can make. If a coin will not go below 80, for example, this means you can buy at 80 and be quite sure that the coin will not fall below that.

go and see how many users in this forum have bought ETH at 500$ thinking it would not go below that. Moreover, if the market condition is like it is right now, i can assure you that noone is willing to pump the coins if afterwards, and apart from risk, they will have to pay from 20 to 30% taxes thing that didn't happen in the past (so you were more willing to take that risk for extra profit).

and another thing: watch out bears, the market is dying. If you keep dumping coins , making it impossible for bulls to succeed, you can be facing a disaster. This problem with crypto related to everyone watching for their own pocket not taking care if the market lasts 2 years or 2 weeks, just squeezing as much money as possible before it goes to hell,  reminds me of a scene that i personally saw in my country.

A company was giving away umbrellas for free on an airport a rainy day. The moment they announced it, people were getting 2,3 or even 4 umbrellas. They didn't care if there was people interested aswell. They only cared about them.

If you dump, and dump and dump, and always this way, you are destroying the market now, when you could just let it live for more. I don't understand this greedy bastards (the risk traders) doing what they do collapsing a hole system. Anyway, i don't care, i have nothing in crypto so get rekt (the market) if it has to.

Sounds like march 2009 in stocks.

[lunobird]

@Piskeante.

You sound like my one of many of my buddies that all of sudden got into crypto at a 10k+ btc due to the masses of dumb money entering in.

They cried market manipulation, Blah blah and all that newb stuff when they took a hit.

The fact your still  around I congratulate you for going through the market cycles where most of my friends left for good. I've made very dumb moves also and I got into crypto early 2017. I bought some btc @ 18k. I've bought some dead on arrival miners obelisk dcr1. I over traded and payed more to IRS than myself.

I really want all of us that still around to be rich in the future and not settle for break even. So best of luck to all on next bull run. Anyone that accumulates a good amount this year, after all the dumb money left, will have life changing money in the next 4 years

[angel55]

lunobird we have all made mistakes, no one is perfect.  I have a tendency to linger on my past mistakes but its better to just learn and move on.

Looks like you got red trusted for supporting EOS, I don't own myself because it is centralized but I still think thats unfair.

[Piskeante]

@Piskeante.

You sound like my one of many of my buddies that all of sudden got into crypto at a 10k+ btc due to the masses of dumb money entering in.

They cried market manipulation, Blah blah and all that newb stuff when they took a hit.

The fact your still  around I congratulate you for going through the market cycles where most of my friends left for good. I've made very dumb moves also and I got into crypto early 2017. I bought some btc @ 18k. I've bought some dead on arrival miners obelisk dcr1. I over traded and payed more to IRS than myself.

I really want all of us that still around to be rich in the future and not settle for break even. So best of luck to all on next bull run. Anyone that accumulates a good amount this year, after all the dumb money left, will have life changing money in the next 4 years

nope, absolutely not. i had at least 3 contingency plans on what to do if the situation got worse and worse. mine, was not an unconsious movement. I did it warned that it could go terribly wrong (specially by my father), a high rank employee in one the biggest banks here in Spain with 40 years of experience managing personal investments. I knew it could go wrong, and considered every scenario to be "already taken into account".

i never entered to get rich. My only idea was to invest in crypto to get around 300$ a month after costs. So my expectations on crypto were low.

i don't think is time is a cycle. I trully believe this market has left so many dead corpses aside, that it's going to be a brutally difficult task to continue this ponzi scheme.


 i don't agree that we will get rich in the future. We are never going to see ETH at 1000$ or BTC at 20k. That is the past. Present looks black. Hope i'm mistaken, but , since September 2017, i can count with the fingers of one hand how many times i was mistaken, and i can tell you that there are fingers unused.


BTC and ETH is not profitable mining right now. You are probably mining at a loss if you have Electricity of 0,08 or more. Breaking even at 0,07 more or less, and winning little to mid profit if 0 to 0,06cnt/kW.


You can keep mining ETH even in Casper has been applied. The matter is: do you believe in a bull run? i don't. This market is dying. IMO.

[lunobird]

@Piskeante.

You sound like my one of many of my buddies that all of sudden got into crypto at a 10k+ btc due to the masses of dumb money entering in.

They cried market manipulation, Blah blah and all that newb stuff when they took a hit.

The fact your still  around I congratulate you for going through the market cycles where most of my friends left for good. I've made very dumb moves also and I got into crypto early 2017. I bought some btc @ 18k. I've bought some dead on arrival miners obelisk dcr1. I over traded and payed more to IRS than myself.

I really want all of us that still around to be rich in the future and not settle for break even. So best of luck to all on next bull run. Anyone that accumulates a good amount this year, after all the dumb money left, will have life changing money in the next 4 years

nope, absolutely not. i had at least 3 contingency plans on what to do if the situation got worse and worse. mine, was not an unconsious movement. I did it warned that it could go terribly wrong (specially by my father), a high rank employee in one the biggest banks here in Spain with 40 years of experience managing personal investments. I knew it could go wrong, and considered every scenario to be "already taken into account".

i never entered to get rich. My only idea was to invest in crypto to get around 300$ a month after costs. So my expectations on crypto were low.

i don't think is time is a cycle. I trully believe this market has left so many dead corpses aside, that it's going to be a brutally difficult task to continue this ponzi scheme.


 i don't agree that we will get rich in the future. We are never going to see ETH at 1000$ or BTC at 20k. That is the past. Present looks black. Hope i'm mistaken, but , since September 2017, i can count with the fingers of one hand how many times i was mistaken, and i can tell you that there are fingers unused.


BTC and ETH is not profitable mining right now. You are probably mining at a loss if you have Electricity of 0,08 or more. Breaking even at 0,07 more or less, and winning little to mid profit if 0 to 0,06cnt/kW.


You can keep mining ETH even in Casper has been applied. The matter is: do you believe in a bull run? i don't. This market is dying. IMO.

I invested in more efficient team green 33 gpus with 11x 1080 ti , 3x 1080 and 18x 1070 ti and 1x 1070. All titanium power supply.

According to what to mine I still make $160 extra each month after electric at 8 cents rate. I don't sell what i mine and pay for electric with my day job.

A lot of people invested in cheaper team red and they are not doing so well for efficiency.

I can mine like this for many years but I didn't get into crypto just to race to the bottom and fight for table scraps. I got into  mining so I can buy out the restaurant.

Paying more for efficiency has paid off in the bear market. I don't have to liquidate my gear.

You gota have some vision of you ever want to grow and expand and be able to take  some big blows when the going gets tough.

But you have the right to your viewpoints and your good at being a realist and not a typical moonboy. You should look into shorting the market it would work well with your mindset.

A pro can survive any market up or down. But I'm too much on the hodl side so I need to adjust strategy and get better myself.