[2018-11-23] The assassination of Bitcoin

[gentlemand]

https://bonnerandpartners.com/the-assassination-of-bitcoin/

Personally I'm doubtful this fall has anything to do with central bank attacks. The morons who populate cryptoland can easily do it themselves.

There is however no doubt that the overall concept of BTC is a huge stone in their shoe and the noises they're making about wanting to take total control of money, and by extension us lot, are growing louder.

I see here on daily basis people believing a 'government crypto' is Bitcoin's biggest threat. That's a fine example of how mindless many posters are on here. Governmentcoin makes crypto more vital than ever and ever more opposed to it.

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[pixie85]

You're right that the morons are killing it. They overvalued the news about Bitcoin futures. Institutional money came in Autumn 2017 and left the scene between 20 and 10,000 USD. Below 10 it's the scared morons bleeding out one by one and mining companies going bankrupt.
In a year or 2 there will be another bull run started by some country adopting Bitcoin, and the poor morons will again buy too late and panic sell.

[KryptoKai]

The bitcoin attack came from multiple assassins, the biggest one of course being bitcoincash. If not for their idiotness bitcoin would be stable, and the ETF will probably succeed leading to a nice bullrun

[LeGaulois]

The bitcoin attack came from multiple assassins, the biggest one of course being bitcoincash. If not for their idiotness bitcoin would be stable, and the ETF will probably succeed leading to a nice bullrun

I don't understand why people keep using BCH as the excuse for the crash. Because of it' a senseless argument. On top of that, there are several other markets going down a lot, the crypto market isn't alone on the boat. It's definitely something else acting behind the scene. The ETF has probably nothing to do as well.

[blurryeyed]

Hopefully this will clear out all the expert wannabe wall street traders who thought they could get rich quick on magic internet money & who use anal animal terms like whale, bull, bear & any other stupid term they can think of in an effort to pretend that they know WTF they're talking about. I hope they got burnt.

This is a dump by large holders & miners. This is what happens when banks & large corporations get involved. The sooner we get rid of them, the sooner we can continue with evolving Bitcoin into what it can be - a replacement for these evil manipulative f*ckers.

[squatter]

https://bonnerandpartners.com/the-assassination-of-bitcoin/

Personally I'm doubtful this fall has anything to do with central bank attacks. The morons who populate cryptoland can easily do it themselves.

There is however no doubt that the overall concept of BTC is a huge stone in their shoe and the noises they're making about wanting to take total control of money, and by extension us lot, are growing louder.

I see here on daily basis people believing a 'government crypto' is Bitcoin's biggest threat. That's a fine example of how mindless many posters are on here. Governmentcoin makes crypto more vital than ever and ever more opposed to it.

I'm doubtful about this narrative as well. Unsurprisingly, it's a conspiracy theory with no evidence. Good old Bill Bonner.

It might not be irrational from the standpoint of central banks, but the market won't follow -- they must know that. Bitcoin is increasingly seen as an investment or store-of-value asset. How can central bank coins compete? All they can do is soak up a bit of the empty hype around digital currency.

[placergold]

The bitcoin up and down, it's quite normal. 2 years ago the price is almost 1/5 of the price now. Don't propose conspiracy theory because the price is down. It's just the normal market actions.

[1Referee]

I don't understand why people keep using BCH as the excuse for the crash. Because of it' a senseless argument. On top of that, there are several other markets going down a lot, the crypto market isn't alone on the boat. It's definitely something else acting behind the scene. The ETF has probably nothing to do as well.

People like to connect the dots that are the closest ones to connect to. We're witnessing pure panic exactly like what happened last year. Every time you thought the top was in, the price broke out higher, and we're following the exact same patterns right now. Today's bottom will turn out to be tomorrow's peak. It's clear, we're stearing towards that $3000 level.

$3000-$3500 is where I'll pump 25% of my total current fiat net worth in Bitcoin.
$2000-$2500 is where I'll probably go big with 50% and not touch anything anymore after that. It will be done and over.

25% in fiat is for mental comfort. I go big but never all-in.

[BitHodler]

I think we can find a bottom in the $3000 to $5000 range.

Ether, a double digit shitcoin.

- Arthur Hayes.

He was laughed at when he said it, but now people realize that he wasn't shit talking, but actually knew that it was going to happen. Who's laughing now? He must have shorted all the way through.

It's going to be interesting to see what he comes up with while the price is falling down close to his lowest bottom figure, especially with how he didn't share one single thought about the current market sentiment.

[gentlemand]

I think we can find a bottom in the $3000 to $5000 range.

Ether, a double digit shitcoin.

- Arthur Hayes.

He was laughed at when he said it, but now people realize that he wasn't shit talking, but actually knew that it was going to happen. Who's laughing now? He must have shorted all the way through.

It's going to be interesting to see what he comes up with while the price is falling down close to his lowest bottom figure, especially with how he didn't share one single thought about the current market sentiment.

ETH will be the poster child for this. Its ICO spawn caused all this ridiculousness in the first place. Double digits are in the bag. It all started with the ETF denial when ETH was single figures so you never know...

Doubt he gives a shit about sharing thoughts. By the time this is all over he'll have made unspeakable amounts. Hope he's insta dumping his BTC though.

The bitcoin attack came from multiple assassins, the biggest one of course being bitcoincash. If not for their idiotness bitcoin would be stable, and the ETF will probably succeed leading to a nice bullrun

Not how it feels to me. This was going to happen anyway, Bcashes might have accelerated it. An ETF won't happen for many years yet. By the time they're all put to sleep early next year no one will care any more.

[BitHodler]

It's clear that you aren't in with your own money gentlemand. It's easy to talk like that without much or anything to lose, because you would rock a different tone if your money was on the line.

Blaming ETH is basic "I don't know what else to blame" nonsense more Bitcoiners struggle with, an attitude working against you rather than for you. If you by now still consider ETH a shitcoin, something is wrong with you.

[hubballi]

Now everyone start to blame to all old news but no one knows the correct information for the recent crash. Actually it has to happen as Christmas is near all holders need money to expense and who are holding from starting have started to sell and will come back next year to buy back.

[gentlemand]

It's clear that you aren't in with your own money gentlemand. It's easy to talk like that without much or anything to lose, because you would rock a different tone if your money was on the line.

Blaming ETH is basic "I don't know what else to blame" nonsense more Bitcoiners struggle with, an attitude working against you rather than for you. If you by now still consider ETH a shitcoin, something is wrong with you.

Au contraire. I'm down several million dollars in paper gains. I don't give a shit. We'll see what's what in 2020/21.

I admire the effort and innovation that goes into ETH. I think it's fundamentally unsound and primed to be replaced by something that simply works in a way BTC won't be.

[Kakmakr]

The bitcoin attack came from multiple assassins, the biggest one of course being bitcoincash. If not for their idiotness bitcoin would be stable, and the ETF will probably succeed leading to a nice bullrun

I don't understand why people keep using BCH as the excuse for the crash. Because of it' a senseless argument. On top of that, there are several other markets going down a lot, the crypto market isn't alone on the boat. It's definitely something else acting behind the scene. The ETF has probably nothing to do as well.

If you say that is bullshit, then you have to come up with some other fact that would trigger a large scale panic attack like this. The whole Bitcoin Cash fork drama started all this and it spiraled out of control after that. <Roger Ver and CW will always go down as the villains, if Bitcoin fails now.>

You only need a small spark to cause I wild fire panic situation like this, in a market that are saturated with speculators. A lot of these speculators came in last year and they are definitely fueling the panic selloff now. 

[darkangel11]

It's clear that you aren't in with your own money gentlemand. It's easy to talk like that without much or anything to lose, because you would rock a different tone if your money was on the line.

Blaming ETH is basic "I don't know what else to blame" nonsense more Bitcoiners struggle with, an attitude working against you rather than for you. If you by now still consider ETH a shitcoin, something is wrong with you.

Au contraire. I'm down several million dollars in paper gains. I don't give a shit. We'll see what's what in 2020/21.

I admire the effort and innovation that goes into ETH. I think it's fundamentally unsound and primed to be replaced by something that simply works in a way BTC won't be.

That was my attitude from the start with the small difference. Earlier in the game I allowed the bear market to get into me and I felt so exhausted by it that I took a break from the forum in 2016. I didn't sell, but the overall negativity was too much to bear. A friend told me in early 2017 that everything is back to normal, and that was when I started following the price again. I held through the worst part of $100 BTC, and there's not much that can scare me now. If we went back to triple digits it would be a disaster and a death of adoption, but not the death of BTC, not the end of my dreams.

[figmentofmyass]

The bitcoin attack came from multiple assassins, the biggest one of course being bitcoincash. If not for their idiotness bitcoin would be stable, and the ETF will probably succeed leading to a nice bullrun

I don't understand why people keep using BCH as the excuse for the crash. Because of it' a senseless argument. On top of that, there are several other markets going down a lot, the crypto market isn't alone on the boat. It's definitely something else acting behind the scene. The ETF has probably nothing to do as well.

If you say that is bullshit, then you have to come up with some other fact that would trigger a large scale panic attack like this. The whole Bitcoin Cash fork drama started all this and it spiraled out of control after that. <Roger Ver and CW will always go down as the villains, if Bitcoin fails now.>

You only need a small spark to cause I wild fire panic situation like this, in a market that are saturated with speculators. A lot of these speculators came in last year and they are definitely fueling the panic selloff now. 

if the likes of roger ver can make bitcoin fail, then it never had a chance to begin with!

i think you give these guys too much credit. as you point out, this has always been a speculative market, full of FUD and attempts at manipulation. the most these guys can do is dump a few thousand coins here, a few thousand coins there, and make a bunch of noise on social media. big deal! if the market can't absorb that, then there really isn't much demand for bitcoin, is there?

bitcoin is known for this type of volatility and panic. this is par for the course.

[CoinClarity]

i think you give these guys too much credit. as you point out, this has always been a speculative market, full of FUD and attempts at manipulation. the most these guys can do is dump a few thousand coins here, a few thousand coins there, and make a bunch of noise on social media. big deal! if the market can't absorb that, then there really isn't much demand for bitcoin, is there?

Everything you just said panned out exactly as such. Ver and Wright only needed to dump a few thousand coins to trigger panic and a widespread sell-off, which BTC obviously couldn't support, which is why the price is so depressed. Ver and Wright sold BTC not only to pay for hash power but also to prop up the price of their own dying coins in their battle to see who has the biggest ego in crypto.

bitcoin is known for this type of volatility and panic. this is par for the course.

Agreed, I still hold out hope for BAU to return to BTC by early next year.

[care2yak]

so let anyone who panic sells, panic. let them sell and let bitcoin change hands. i only hope bitcoin goes to non-institutional hands so bitcoin will remain with the people and not those who wish to control it or lock it up and or just keep it so it's scarce and won't be able to thrive!

that article is saying that banks, governments - they all want to have their own cryptocurrency, one that they can regulate (ponder on all the synonyms that equates to and what it implies) and profit from.

despite the dips, bitcoin remains a threat because whatever cryptocurrency they create, it will still be handled the way fiat is handled and people who have been aware of and exposed to bitcoin and altcoins with similar attributes (decentralized, pseudonymous, immutable, etc) will not want to go back to a system that controls wealth and prevents you from moving funds wherever you want to move it to, needs kyc info before releasing your funds and moving them elsewhere, and diminishes your purchasing power by - among others - charging you numerous fees for allowing them to "safeguard" your money and taking a variety of their services.

i'm with those who're still positive that bitcoin will develop more and live on.

[aigeezer]

I'm doubtful about this narrative as well. Unsurprisingly, it's a conspiracy theory with no evidence. Good old Bill Bonner.

I'm not sure how you mean the Bonner name-drop, but fwiw I first started mining BTC early in 2011 because of endorsements by Bonner's then-associate Joel Bowman. Bonner has been fence-sitting of late, with his company often endorsing crypto-pumper Teeka Tiwari while Bonner himself muses about volatility - I think he's a gold bug at heart. Anyway, this particular article was written by Dan Denning, not Bonner, and Denning's stuff often turns up on conspiracy-oriented sites, for whatever reasons.

As for causes of the current crash, I have no idea but enjoy the stimulus of trying to figure it out. Back when BTC was worth pennies or a few dollars, the real-world effects of the volatility were trivial. Now large paper fortunes are made and lost, so in that sense this one is the most alarming yet.

[TraderTimm]

We've been through this more than once.

https://howmuch.net/articles/bitcoin-all-major-crashes (Updated to include November.)

We're in a Bear market after the all-time highs, which happens every goddamned cycle. Anyone else talking about "what made it do that" doesn't know what they're talking about.
Backfitting news on to events is something CNBC does, why follow their example?

As for ETH -- its a future shitcoin from their scaling problems. They kicked the can, govt debt style, by removing the logic bomb that would have frozen their chain. All this does is
allow fancy terms "plasma" and "sharding" to be bandied about without any real resolution.

Proof-of-(mis)Stake is going to be the biggest debacle that 24 years-young-Vitalik has ever made. I think he's realizing this, since he was part of the group that decided to delay.
In addition, Vitalik has decided to "step back from the project", which tells me he's trying to do a side-exit before it all crashes down and he gets (rightly) all the blame.

It wouldn't surprise me if he got all chummy with the Cashies, since he's been hanging around their events and popping in on different meetings they've had.

You read it here first.