COINABUL wants to file a CTR for deal lower than 10K USD... WTF

[MasterKong]

They have an official "turnaround" time of 17 business days, which by itself ridiculous.
I couldn't receive the package on time, so I put it on hold because I had to catch a flight.
Now that I am back, they are making me wait another 17 days (WTF, why? Did they sell my gold to another customer?).
But that's not all, they are now filing bogus crap adding an extra delay.
Read the email I received from Nolan Gisser, support guy at Coinabul:

From: Nolan Gisser nolan@coinabul.com
To: Me
Date:  Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

I'm sorry for this additional delay. I have been reminded by Compliance after resubmitting this order that the amount exceeds the threshold for Transaction Reporting, so your order is unfortunately back on hold temporarily. Please review and respond to the following:

AML Documentation Request

In order to help combat money laundering and other illegal activity, we
must request some documentation from you in order to process your
shipments. Please note that after this documentation is provided, we will
keep this information on file in order to process your future orders
expediently. We will not share your information, and if you request we
will procure sensitive information verbally where possible in order to
protect your privacy via electronic transmissions.

Thank you for your understanding, and we look forward to answering any questions you have.


Please provide each of the following to
aml@coinabul.com:

Legal Name
Social security number / Tax Identification Number
Copy of identification documents as outlined in
“Business Accepted Photo ID” section

BUSINESS ACCEPTED PHOTO ID

Driver’s License (state or territory)
Passport
Temporary Resident Card (US Dept. of Justice)
US Military Card
Native American Tribal ID

As soon as we can verify the required documentation your order will ship immediately.

To which I replied:

From: Me
To: Nolan Gisser <nolan@coinabul.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

The reporting is required only when the amount exceeds 10K USD.
The value of this order was below that amount, so I am except from it.

Remind your staff this is an order paid last year.

Regards,

His answer:

From: Nolan Gisser nolan@coinabul.com
To: Me
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

Due to the fluidity of Gold spot, it is indeed close enough that we need documentation.

Thank you in advance,
Nolan Gisser

Wth? "Close enough"? What kind of regulation is that?
Wait a minute, "fluidity of Gold spot"? Are they trying to blame me for the appreciation of the gold I ALREADY OWN?

From: Me
To: Nolan Gisser <nolan@coinabul.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

That should be your problem not mine.
I executed the purchase under 10K USD, I am legally not required to show anything.

Stop goxxing me, please, I had enough with one site leaking my passport.

And I got this weird answer:

From: Nolan Gisser nolan@coinabul.com
To: Me
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

Given the significant value of your orders I have no doubt you are sophisticated enough to understand that we cannot proceed any further on shipping your order which remains in our vault nor transfer any sort of refund or credit until you comply fully with all legal requirements.

Coinabul has always and will remain in full compliance US Anti Money Laundering regulations as well as CTR regulations. We do not risk our reputation and good standing, period. Much of our success and longevity may be attributed to our full compliance with the law and our desire to provide highest levels of customer service.

We would be pleased to work with you to retain the the required identification information in the most private and discreet manner possible.

CTR again?

From: Me
To: Nolan Gisser <nolan@coinabul.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

Because I am sophisticated, I know that a CTR is required to be filed within 15 days of a cash-in transaction when it is a transaction HIGHER than 10,000 USD on form 8300, according to the FinCen.
The highest point the highest price point when I made my purchase on November 18 2013 was 669 USD/BTC per bitcoin, my order is 14.92 BTC, which translates to 9981.48 USD.

If you forgot to register the transaction back then, and you want to settle the payment today:
Today's market price is 666 USD/BTC, totalling 9936.72 USD.

So yes, I know my shit pretty well.
Forward this to your compliance officer, please.

To which Nolan gave me a very eyebrow-raising reply.

From: Nolan Gisser nolan@coinabul.com
To: Me
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

Yes, the calculations were considered. You have the last word from Compliance as of prior email message.

Again we do ensure your documentation will be secure.

Huh?, such calculations were considered, and yet he still wants to file a CTR?
Lets refresh our memory: http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/FIN-2012-G001.pdf
http://www.fincen.gov/whatsnew/html/ctr_faqs.html
So, what the hell is going on?

From: Me
To: Nolan Gisser <nolan@coinabul.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

May I ask exactly why are you asking for the documents, because I don't see any current regulation that would compel you to be siphoning customer's private information.
Give me a full explanation and I will send you my documents.

To which I had no response back.

I think it is in my right to know why this documentation is needed.
I think that at least I should get a reasonable bullshit that is believable.
Regarding to the Form 8300, hell the title itself says "Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000" (http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin8300_cashover10k.pdf)
This interim ruling is incumbent to their industry (Jewelry and precious metals): http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/faq060305.html
And ratifies the reporting of OVER 10,000 USD only.

In any case, I don't mind sending them over my private information since I have nothing to hide, but at least I want to know that it is really required by law, Isn't that my fucking right? But so far they had been giving me ambiguous or plainly wrong explanations about their supposed requirement.

So dear forum members, what do you make of this?
Is there any new regulations that are forcing them to act like dicks, or they are just dicks?
Or are they chasing my ass to file a SAR for busting their balls?
What's the "threshold" I am supposed to be exceeding? He mentions Transaction Reporting, and the only one I know of is CTR, and CTR is for exceeding 10,000 USD.
Btw, they were supposed to have reported it in November within 15 days I sent my payment, why would they be doing it now?
The payment was in NOVEMBER 2013, I AM JUST RE-REQUESTING THE SHIPMENT OF MY PURCHASED GOODS.

Someone with a clue please enlighten me.

[malevolent]

Coinabul is a known scammer, with some luck you might eventually receive some or all of the gold you ordered if you comply with their terms. It may take some extra waiting, though.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=42204

We do not risk our reputation and good standing, period.

I lol'd.

[kibblesnbits]

Remind your staff this is an order paid last year.

Coinabul took a serious hit if you ordered last year when (I'll assume was Nov/Dec) before BTC price dropped.  I'd ask for a refund and at least get your BTC back.  It's a shitty game to play, and I'd bet that order would have shipped mighty-quick if the BTC price doubled during the time of your order. 

[DeathAndTaxes]

You have been scammed.   Sorry but no sense in getting your hopes up.  Coinabul has a long history of ripping people off.  The CTR is limited to cash (i.e. the real physical currency of the US or foreign nation) and virtual currencies don't meet the requirement, hell even a bank wire in dollars doesn't meet the requirement.  Unless you paid them with a stack of US federal reserve note there is no need for a CTR.   Still that is beside the point, even if a CTR was required it doesn't require any sort of delay not even a single minute.  You have been scammed.

[MasterKong]

Remind your staff this is an order paid last year.

Coinabul took a serious hit if you ordered last year when (I'll assume was Nov/Dec) before BTC price dropped.  I'd ask for a refund and at least get your BTC back.  It's a shitty game to play, and I'd bet that order would have shipped mighty-quick if the BTC price doubled during the time of your order.  

Well, I tried asking them a refund SINCE NOVEMBER and they said that it is not possible.
Nolan said that they would have to ship it anyways, even when I said I wouldn't be able to receive it.
They refused the refund, and offered a buyback after I receive it (sounds like a retarded bureaucracy)
The other option was to hold it until I came back. So at the end that's what happened. What's funny is that I have to go through the 17 days "turnaround" all over again, plus this KYC out of nowhere. (why didn't they ask me before?)

Btw, Nolan said up there:

Given the significant value of your orders I have no doubt you are sophisticated enough to understand that we cannot proceed any further on shipping your order which remains in our vault nor transfer any sort of refund or credit until you comply fully with all legal requirements.

This feels like Gox v.2.
I just hope that Jay Shore isn't the American Mark Karpeles.

[BCB]

hell even a bank wire in dollars doesn't meet the requirement.  

Because there are already reports accessible for auditors, regulators and law enforcement for all bank wires.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm curious as to which bank Coinabul is using.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/11/15/bitcoin-companies-and-entrepreneurs-cant-get-bank-accounts/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hacker-news-feed-50+%28Hacker+News+50%29

“They tried to force me to take a cashier’s check but I refused,” said Shore who worried he wouldn’t be able to deposit it elsewhere. He made a dozen trips to U.S. Bank because they wouldn’t give him more than $30,000 at a time. “The money is now sitting in our corporate vaults along with our metals.”

The day you give Coinabul your name and just one other vital, they know more about you than you know about them. Who the hell is this Nolan Gisser fuck?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

https://www.goldstockbull.com/articles/warning-buy-gold-silver-coinabul/

Update 11/19/13: A customer service representative finally called me back after I had left a few messages in the past week and had never been able to get through. His name was Nolan and he said they have my order and it should ship within the next few days. When I suggested that Coinabul let customers know that orders could be delayed by weeks (despite the cart saying next day delivery), he told me about banking regulations being a pain and running out of stock on silver eagles. I am sure those things are true, I just wish they would be up front with their customers and tell everyone when they are out of stock and can’t deliver for weeks or months.

[RodeoX]

Well you can't expect them to risk their business over this. I see their point about it being close enough that it might go over the threshold. I also see yours that it apparently did not go over. But if I were in their shoes I might risk loosing a customer to be sure I survive an audit.
Could you cancel and buy less at a few places?

[MasterKong]

Well you can't expect them to risk their business over this. I see their point about it being close enough that it might go over the threshold. I also see yours that it apparently did not go over. But if I were in their shoes I might risk loosing a customer to be sure I survive an audit.
Could you cancel and buy less at a few places?

As I said before, I requested cancellation as soon as I purchased it in November 2013, because I realized I wouldn't be able to receive it (I had a flight to catch, never expected to take half a month to get a "next day" delivery).
They refused it.

Now, they are still refusing cancellation and refunds.
So now I am here without gold and without bitcoins.

[bitwinwin]

They have an official "turnaround" time of 17 business days, which by itself ridiculous.
I couldn't receive the package on time, so I put it on hold because I had to catch a flight.
Now that I am back, they are making me wait another 17 days (WTF, why? Did they sell my gold to another customer?).
But that's not all, they are now filing bogus crap adding an extra delay.
Read the email I received from Nolan Gisser, support guy at Coinabul:

From: Nolan Gisser nolan@coinabul.com
To: Me
Date:  Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

I'm sorry for this additional delay. I have been reminded by Compliance after resubmitting this order that the amount exceeds the threshold for Transaction Reporting, so your order is unfortunately back on hold temporarily. Please review and respond to the following:

AML Documentation Request

In order to help combat money laundering and other illegal activity, we
must request some documentation from you in order to process your
shipments. Please note that after this documentation is provided, we will
keep this information on file in order to process your future orders
expediently. We will not share your information, and if you request we
will procure sensitive information verbally where possible in order to
protect your privacy via electronic transmissions.

Thank you for your understanding, and we look forward to answering any questions you have.


Please provide each of the following to
aml@coinabul.com:

Legal Name
Social security number / Tax Identification Number
Copy of identification documents as outlined in
“Business Accepted Photo ID” section

BUSINESS ACCEPTED PHOTO ID

Driver’s License (state or territory)
Passport
Temporary Resident Card (US Dept. of Justice)
US Military Card
Native American Tribal ID

As soon as we can verify the required documentation your order will ship immediately.

To which I replied:

From: Me
To: Nolan Gisser <nolan@coinabul.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

The reporting is required only when the amount exceeds 10K USD.
The value of this order was below that amount, so I am except from it.

Remind your staff this is an order paid last year.

Regards,

His answer:

From: Nolan Gisser nolan@coinabul.com
To: Me
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

Due to the fluidity of Gold spot, it is indeed close enough that we need documentation.

Thank you in advance,
Nolan Gisser

Wth? "Close enough"? What kind of regulation is that?
Wait a minute, "fluidity of Gold spot"? Are they trying to blame me for the appreciation of the gold I ALREADY OWN?

From: Me
To: Nolan Gisser <nolan@coinabul.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

That should be your problem not mine.
I executed the purchase under 10K USD, I am legally not required to show anything.

Stop goxxing me, please, I had enough with one site leaking my passport.

And I got this weird answer:

From: Nolan Gisser nolan@coinabul.com
To: Me
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

Given the significant value of your orders I have no doubt you are sophisticated enough to understand that we cannot proceed any further on shipping your order which remains in our vault nor transfer any sort of refund or credit until you comply fully with all legal requirements.

Coinabul has always and will remain in full compliance US Anti Money Laundering regulations as well as CTR regulations. We do not risk our reputation and good standing, period. Much of our success and longevity may be attributed to our full compliance with the law and our desire to provide highest levels of customer service.

We would be pleased to work with you to retain the the required identification information in the most private and discreet manner possible.

CTR again?

From: Me
To: Nolan Gisser <nolan@coinabul.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

Because I am sophisticated, I know that a CTR is required to be filed within 15 days of a cash-in transaction when it is a transaction HIGHER than 10,000 USD on form 8300, according to the FinCen.
The highest point the highest price point when I made my purchase on November 18 2013 was 669 USD/BTC per bitcoin, my order is 14.92 BTC, which translates to 9981.48 USD.

If you forgot to register the transaction back then, and you want to settle the payment today:
Today's market price is 666 USD/BTC, totalling 9936.72 USD.

So yes, I know my shit pretty well.
Forward this to your compliance officer, please.

To which Nolan gave me a very eyebrow-raising reply.

From: Nolan Gisser nolan@coinabul.com
To: Me
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

Yes, the calculations were considered. You have the last word from Compliance as of prior email message.

Again we do ensure your documentation will be secure.

Huh?, such calculations were considered, and yet he still wants to file a CTR?
Lets refresh our memory: http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/FIN-2012-G001.pdf
http://www.fincen.gov/whatsnew/html/ctr_faqs.html
So, what the hell is going on?

From: Me
To: Nolan Gisser <nolan@coinabul.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: Coinabul Order Staus

May I ask exactly why are you asking for the documents, because I don't see any current regulation that would compel you to be siphoning customer's private information.
Give me a full explanation and I will send you my documents.

To which I had no response back.

I think it is in my right to know why this documentation is needed.
I think that at least I should get a reasonable bullshit that is believable.
Regarding to the Form 8300, hell the title itself says "Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000" (http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin8300_cashover10k.pdf)
This interim ruling is incumbent to their industry (Jewelry and precious metals): http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/faq060305.html
And ratifies the reporting of OVER 10,000 USD only.

In any case, I don't mind sending them over my private information since I have nothing to hide, but at least I want to know that it is really required by law, Isn't that my fucking right? But so far they had been giving me ambiguous or plainly wrong explanations about their supposed requirement.

So dear forum members, what do you make of this?
Is there any new regulations that are forcing them to act like dicks, or they are just dicks?
Or are they chasing my ass to file a SAR for busting their balls?
What's the "threshold" I am supposed to be exceeding? He mentions Transaction Reporting, and the only one I know of is CTR, and CTR is for exceeding 10,000 USD.
Btw, they were supposed to have reported it in November within 15 days I sent my payment, why would they be doing it now?
The payment was in NOVEMBER 2013, I AM JUST RE-REQUESTING THE SHIPMENT OF MY PURCHASED GOODS.

Someone with a clue please enlighten me.

Very interesting...

[ratacat]

I placed an order last September, for around the same amount total USD, maybe 11-12k.  After dealing with Nolan's bullshit for several months, and repeated delays, corrections, more data needed(which I fulfulled each and every one)...they still haven't shipped anything or refunded me my money. 

As sad as it is...we got hosed. I have prettymuch given up on ever seeing it again, although I will be launching a little present their way shortly to thank them for all the BULLSHIT they've sent me =)

[acs267]

Coinabul scammed me, but something completely different from their 'services'. Never really got any help with that. And it was September of 2011, I think.