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Author Topic: Is the Default trust system still working/active?  (Read 22153 times)
suchmoon
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January 09, 2019, 09:00:15 PM
 #121

Neither of us have any misunderstandings of each other

No lies, please. You misunderstood me heavily. I told you this (2+ times), and tried to explain what I meant, but you stick to your prejudice. You refused to truly listen to what I had to say, and you kept deliberately understanding my words in the worst possible way.

Unless there was some hidden discussion that I'm not aware of, this doesn't make any sense. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean your opponent misunderstands you. From what I've seen Salty understood you perfectly well and engaged in a lengthy discussion with you.

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SaltySpitoon
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January 09, 2019, 09:02:05 PM
Last edit: January 09, 2019, 10:29:01 PM by SaltySpitoon
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 #122

Neither of us have any misunderstandings of each other

No lies, please. You misunderstood me heavily. I told you this (2+ times), and tried to explain what I meant, but you stick to your prejudice. You refused to truly listen to what I had to say, and you kept deliberately understanding my words in the worst possible way.

Consensus pretty much is that self-bidding on an auction here is not cool.

I know this and agree completely. I've done all my auctions without vendor bids since I learned that it's not cool here.



There would have been zero discussion about the matter for the last few years if the bolded statement was true. People make mistakes, they take actions to fix them, and its done. Unless they constantly defend their mistakes. You don't get to say, hey I'm sorry I was wrong, but actually I was right you just don't understand. I can almost guarantee there would never have been a problem with Vod, or me now, had you just said, "yeah, it was my mistake" when someone called you on it.

I absolutely completely understood your justification to me. And thought it was wrong. Its not prejudice, there are just inconsistencies in the story which lead me to believe you are not being truthful. If you are being truthful, it doesn't change anything, because it still makes me question your ability to rectify your mistakes. Being able to convince yourself that you are the victim for screwing someone else over is WAYYY more alarming to me than making a mistake due to a cultural difference. I've been trying to avoid telling you what the correct answer to the situation would have been, on the off chance that figuring it out on your own would have given a possibility of redemption.

The analogy I told you about the tourist giving people the middle finger, and whether it made sense for them to continue giving people the finger after being told of the cultural difference in meaning, was meant to spark the idea that you should have stopped defending yourself and simply given up on the idea that its ok to do something untrustworthy because of a cultural difference. When you find out you made a mistake due to a cultural difference, you say, hey sorry, this is why I thought this was ok, but I understand its different here. I'm sorry. You don't go on defending your actions and calling others out because they are misunderstanding your culture. Making a mistake and fixing it isn't a big deal. Making a mistake and continuing to try and justify your mistake for years says something about your character.

The reason I was so sure of my decision was because we fully discussed everything. I got an inside look at how your thought processing works, and thats where I found the problem. My feedback isn't meant to warn people that you are a dishonest scammer, its that there is the possibility of them getting screwed over by you, because you are exceptionally able to warp and twist what most would call common sense in order to justify your own actions, even when not a single person is on your side.

I have absolutely nothing invested in my negative feedback to you. Its not a fight I need to win, power tripping, or a matter of pride. If I had to say I had any attached emotion, it'd be that I'm a little irritated that you think I'm being hasty, when we've spent so much time talking. Claiming I'm misunderstanding the situation when I've given you ample time to clear up any misunderstanding, and even responded back on any unclear points I might have had is a little demeaning.


TLDR:

My tie in to why this is relevant to this thread, is that DT takes effort. I don't leave someone a negative on something iffy, and many other DT members do the same. It took hours of discussion with you before I felt comfortable doing so. I absolutely believe I gave you a fair shake and put in far more effort than is reasonably expected to coax your true intentions out. That said, DT's purpose is to give accurate/reliable feedback. You might disagree with me, but I gave people resources to investigate my claim for themselves. If they don't agree with me, they don't need to heed my advice. Thats essentially all there is to it. The same is true to your feedback about me, if they don't agree with your claim, they are free to ignore your feedback. Thats how it works, DT is just a good starting point for those who don't know who to trust yet. Give a member a few months here, and they create their own weighted trust lists, at least in their head if not by physically altering their list.

We are not going to agree with one another, and I'm perfectly alright with that. I just hope that we can agree that each other's feedback will only matter those those who choose to value it based on their own perception of its merit.



*edit* Quoting for my own future reference...

Unless they constantly defend their mistakes

I am solely saying that vendor bidding is not unethical, scam, untrustworthy or bad behavior in general, when it's applicable. Vendor bidding is done in various auctions around the world. I fully understand that it is not part of Bitcointalk auctions. I told you this many many times, but you just refuse to listen.

I don't defend my mistake. (This is obvious from my very first message regarding this.) I defend myself when people call me a scammer, because I've not scammed anyone.

Vod told me that he doesn't see anything untrustworthy in how the auction went. Even though his rating mentions the vendor bid. He misunderstood me illogically, and didn't listen when I told him how he read my words illogically. See this.

You're talking about my thought process with quite a confidence.

Your description of why you're rating me is not in line with your other output. For example, you implied that your DT position played a significant role in that event, as you felt that by rating me negatively I wouldn't need to "worry about Vod anymore".

Also, you're applying double standards as you're not red-rating someone who changed auction rules mid-auction. Yet you do a fresh red-rating to someone who didn't know about bitcointalk auction standard (and didn't change auction rules.)


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January 09, 2019, 09:15:23 PM
Last edit: January 10, 2019, 02:22:13 AM by Anduck
 #123

Unless they constantly defend their mistakes

I am solely saying that vendor bidding is not unethical, scam, untrustworthy or bad behavior in general, when it's applicable. Vendor bidding is done in various auctions around the world. I fully understand that it is not part of Bitcointalk auctions. I told you this many many times, but you just refuse to listen. You just keep on telling me how you think that vendor bidding is absolutely dishonest and that I'm bullshitting you when I say that it's actually quite common practice. I presented you various sources where you can go and educate yourself, but you refused and instead believe your prejudice.

I don't defend my mistake. (This is obvious from my very first message regarding this.) I defend myself when Vod (and you?) call me a scammer, because I've not scammed anyone.

Vod told me that he doesn't see anything untrustworthy in how the auction went. Even though his rating mentions the vendor bid. He misunderstood me illogically, and didn't listen when I told him how he read my words illogically. See this.

You're talking about my thought process with quite a confidence.

Your description of why you're rating me is not in line with your other output. For example, you implied that your DT position played a significant role in that event, as you felt that by rating me negatively I wouldn't need to "worry about Vod anymore". That is abuse of position and so called "power tripping".

Also, you're applying double standards as you're not red-rating someone who changed auction rules mid-auction. Yet you do a fresh red-rating to someone who didn't know about bitcointalk auction standard (and didn't change auction rules.)



Consensus pretty much is that self-bidding on an auction here is not cool.

I know this and agree completely. I've done all my auctions without vendor bids since I learned that it's not cool here.


There would have been zero discussion about the matter for the last few years if the bolded statement was true.

Have a try at explaining how the bold statement is untrue? I've not done a vendor bid since that auction ~3 years ago. Bitcointalk auction standard doesn't include vendor bidding. Anyway, your logic is flawed and your attempts at steering opinions or whatever with such no content sentences are pathetic.



My feedback isn't meant to warn people that you are a dishonest scammer, its that there is the possibility of them getting screwed over by you, because you are exceptionally able to warp and twist what most would call common sense in order to justify your own actions, even when not a single person is on your side.

This makes no sense. What's your beef with me? Your prejudice is what you call "common sense", now? How about digging up real common sense and stop harassing me.

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January 10, 2019, 10:32:40 AM
 #124

Have just come across this thread. Who do I have to thank for removing or excluding me from DT2?

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January 10, 2019, 10:37:04 AM
 #125

Have just come across this thread. Who do I have to thank for removing or excluding me from DT2?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full shows: hilariousandco, Lutpin, DarkStar_, Tomatocage, EcuaMobi have you excluded. I don't think it's an exclusion problem, but rather an inclusion one. Whoever had you included, removed the inclusion from what I can tell. Wrong thread though?

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January 10, 2019, 10:50:27 AM
 #126

Have just come across this thread. Who do I have to thank for removing or excluding me from DT2?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full shows: hilariousandco, Lutpin, DarkStar_, Tomatocage, EcuaMobi have you excluded. I don't think it's an exclusion problem, but rather an inclusion one. Whoever had you included, removed the inclusion from what I can tell. Wrong thread though?

Thanks for the info, I don't believe it's the wrong thread as my UID details etc form the basis of one entry of the list the tread is based around.

Tom & Hilarious are understandable. Lupin is a supprise. Dark Star & Ecuai - no idea.

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184177.0;dt
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January 10, 2019, 01:27:21 PM
 #127

I will probably do an update
Let me archive this thread, so we have a copy of DT1 and 2 before the changes.

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January 11, 2019, 12:05:22 AM
 #128

New topic here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095716.0 ,  This one is archived and It will be closed soon.

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