Is the Default trust system still working/active?

[coinlocket$]

CONSIDERATIONS

• 13 Accounts are on DT 1 list
• 235 Accounts are or were on the DT2 list
• 53 Accounts has been removed/Excluded from the DT2 list
• Some people are removed even with positive Trust for whatever reason
• 182 Accounts are the DT2 list
• Even if I spent a lot of time doing this report, forgive me if there are any inaccuracies this is a manual copy-paste job
• All accounts come from the public list here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust so I hope this is updated
• The last activity for accounts have been checked between 11.00-15.00 GTM +1 on 05/12/2018
• The activity for people removed from the DT2 list is not checked since it is not shown on the default trust list
• Some people on the DT2 list have a Trust score
• One person on the DT2 list has a red trust score
• With some exceptions like alt accounts the last account added on DT2 list is the number 881377 @Hhampuz
• No Accounts with 1xxxxxx are on the DT list
• Some DT2 members have no feedbacks
• Some DT2 members have sent no feedbacks
• Some DT2 members are currently inactive for years
• Some DT2 members are active but don't send feedbacks at all
• Some DT2 members are active and send a lot of feedbacks
• I'm considering to add the trust value on the table

DT1 LIST

_____________________	_____________________	_____________	___________________________	_____________
PROFILE	ID NUMBER°	BPIP	LAST ACTIVITY	LAST FEEDBACK
theymos	35	BPIP	December04,2018,11:59:22PM	22/03/18
HostFat	203	BPIP	December05,2018,03:34:21AM	07/06/18
dooglus	3420	BPIP	December04,2018,04:45:58PM	10/03/18
Maged	6347	BPIP	March24,2016,01:43:46AM	15/07/14
dserrano5	17768	BPIP	October17,2018,04:46:01AM	14/02/17
OgNasty	18321	BPIP	December05,2018,09:21:24AM	01/12/18
Tomatocage	37522	BPIP	May03,2018,11:46:06PM	14/02/18
SaltySpitoon	38894	BPIP	December05,2018,04:35:18AM	27/11/18
philipma1957	64507	BPIP	December05,2018,04:00:24AM	16/10/18
Cyrus	78147	BPIP	December05,2018,02:09:57AM	22/05/17
Blazed	134378	BPIP	December04,2018,05:03:14AM	05/11/18
hilariousandco	164822	BPIP	December04,2018,09:59:17PM	21/11/18
OldScammerTag	330472	BPIP	Never	Never

DT2 LIST NUMERICAL ORDER

_____________________	_____________________	_____________	___________________________	_____________
PROFILE	ID NUMBER°	BPIP	LAST ACTIVITY	LAST FEEDBACK
sirius	4	BPIP	January06,2018,01:12:21PM	26/05/13
allinvain	198	BPIP	December05,2018,12:00:50PM	11/04/18
Gavin Andresen	224	BPIP	October11,2018,05:08:38PM	Never
nanotube	1268	BPIP	July18,2018,01:31:49PM	Never
mikegogulski	2285	BPIP	July19,2018,02:06:48PM	25/05/13
casascius	2676	BPIP	November04,2018,08:37:10PM	23/01/16
Light	2818	BPIP	November25,2018,05:24:33AM	16/11/15
molecular	3771	BPIP	November30,2018,09:05:39PM	04/04/15
Raize	4171	BPIP	November05,2018,01:19:17AM	02/10/15
grue	5797	BPIP	August01,2018,03:00:20AM	21/01/18
EpiSKiNG	7351	BPIP	April23,2018,05:19:31PM	05/12/17
gmaxwell	11425	BPIP	December05,2018,03:47:11AM	27/11/18
Kluge	11671	BPIP	May25,2018,01:18:11PM	16/10/14
piotr_n	12089	BPIP	December04,2018,05:58:19PM	03/10/18
MiningBuddy	14001	BPIP	April04,2018,01:24:05PM	09/04/15
teukon	14685	BPIP	July09,2016,11:25:03PM	20/12/14
rb1205	14716	BPIP	February11,2018,08:35:47PM	13/07/13
majamalu	14792	BPIP	August25,2017,05:13:53AM	05/12/13
BurtW	14808	BPIP	November09,2018,12:51:19AM	25/08/14
Mousepotato	15510	BPIP	July26,2016,09:02:53PM	05/05/15
jwzguy	15540	BPIP	December05,2017,06:16:17PM	27/09/13
paci	15648	BPIP	November05,2018,10:36:08AM	29/12/16
Carnth	15682	BPIP	August21,2015,04:20:58AM	24/05/13
Caesium	15913	BPIP	March30,2017,09:48:43AM	02/08/14
tysat	17261	BPIP	July16,2018,12:54:28PM	27/08/17
piuk	17928	BPIP	June19,2015,07:52:05PM	Never
haploid23	18062	BPIP	March28,2015,04:14:50PM	18/03/15
phantastisch	18312	BPIP	November04,2018,05:00:25PM	13/03/18
SebastianJu	18640	BPIP	December05,2018,12:05:56PM	22/11/18
Stemby	18953	BPIP	November25,2018,01:56:25AM	19/05/17
zvs	19897	BPIP	November23,2018,03:30:13AM	06/12/17
-ck	19971	BPIP	December05,2018,04:22:19AM	05/06/18
jackjack	21053	BPIP	May13,2018,10:02:22AM	23/02/17
malevolent	23092	BPIP	December04,2018,05:26:20AM	04/10/18
yxt	23810	BPIP	December05,2018,07:41:42AM	20/11/18
qwk	24140	BPIP	December05,2018,09:53:42AM	21/11/18
the joint	24314	BPIP	November21,2018,06:58:56PM	18/06/15
aigeezer	24674	BPIP	December05,2018,03:05:24AM	Never
Matthew N. Wright	24749	BPIP	January23,2014,04:40:03AM	13/08/13
CrazyGuy	25223	BPIP	November30,2018,07:20:09PM	10/09/16
smoothie	25960	BPIP	December05,2018,11:02:15AM	28/05/17
sveetsnelda	26772	BPIP	January22,2018,06:56:46AM	27/01/15
naypalm	27273	BPIP	November06,2018,11:24:51PM	12/02/18
ziomik	27427	BPIP	December03,2018,01:30:18PM	26/06/16
Korbman	29254	BPIP	December02,2018,11:40:08PM	25/02/15
paraipan	29395	BPIP	June02,2014,01:33:58AM	19/10/13
Vod	30747	BPIP	December05,2018,11:15:37AM	02/12/18
John (JohnK.)	31288	BPIP	December05,2018,05:38:46AM	20/05/18
ercolinux	31410	BPIP	October25,2018,07:51:33PM	23/12/16
Michail1	31539	BPIP	November28,2018,04:57:35PM	30/12/17
danieldaniel	33781	BPIP	May28,2018,12:01:01AM	23/11/13
Mushroomized	34882	BPIP	March31,2018,08:23:16PM	21/04/17
wallet.dat	35123	BPIP	July07,2015,08:50:26PM	09/06/15
maxmint	36677	BPIP	November14,2018,06:52:05PM	16/07/16
dree12	37096	BPIP	December07,2017,05:27:02AM	17/08/14
ineededausername	40007	BPIP	December12,2016,11:36:17PM	26/05/13
DeaDTerra	40976	BPIP	October22,2018,03:26:31PM	08/09/13
DeathAndTaxes	41048	BPIP	April22,2015,11:53:28AM	09/01/15
BadBear	41911	BPIP	April02,2018,12:39:12PM	15/04/16
Shawshank	42880	BPIP	December04,2018,09:38:27PM	Never
mdude77	48765	BPIP	October07,2018,01:49:47AM	05/12/17
Bees Brothers	50107	BPIP	November26,2018,06:33:37PM	18/11/15
mprep	51173	BPIP	December05,2018,01:56:30PM	01/12/18
Blazr	51908	BPIP	July06,2018,08:54:56AM	17/02/18
xkrikl	53416	BPIP	October15,2014,12:09:43PM	24/05/13
vgo	53862	BPIP	November09,2018,08:22:03PM	18/08/17
Cablez	54059	BPIP	January28,2018,02:15:37AM	19/02/15
BCB	54113	BPIP	September09,2018,06:55:36PM	18/12/17
Dabs	54791	BPIP	December01,2018,04:04:21AM	15/02/18
DiamondCardz	55122	BPIP	May13,2018,04:28:09PM	27/05/16
diego1000	57872	BPIP	February26,2018,07:18:15PM	18/03/14
btharper	58297	BPIP	November25,2018,10:21:53PM	30/11/13
davecoin	58365	BPIP	December05,2018,06:07:19AM	08/05/17
burnside	59012	BPIP	December04,2018,07:01:19AM	05/12/13
DannyHamilton	60820	BPIP	September24,2018,01:39:55PM	07/03/18
LoweryCBS	61196	BPIP	December04,2018,01:27:30PM	20/03/14
bigtimespaghetti	65317	BPIP	November26,2018,11:44:16PM	14/04/18
stenkross	66253	BPIP	November18,2017,07:50:01AM	22/10/16
Benson Samuel	66510	BPIP	June20,2018,06:52:38AM	29/03/15
LuisCar	70416	BPIP	December02,2018,09:40:01AM	Never
KWH	70535	BPIP	December05,2018,12:25:32PM	19/08/18
kelpy	71769	BPIP	December05,2018,10:51:54AM	27/02/17
GIANNAT	73619	BPIP	March30,2018,11:13:20AM	29/09/17
bertani	76206	BPIP	October25,2016,07:43:56AM	13/08/15
Cripto	76216	BPIP	May19,2018,03:32:52PM	02/11/15
fernarios	76332	BPIP	November09,2018,08:47:26PM	22/11/13
shiftybugger	76857	BPIP	February10,2014,08:38:38PM	12/06/13
ThickAsThieves	79242	BPIP	September25,2016,04:29:56PM	02/03/14
Stunna	81292	BPIP	December03,2018,02:16:44AM	29/11/18
monkeynuts	81962	BPIP	December04,2018,11:44:59PM	22/05/18
fluidjax	83655	BPIP	December04,2018,06:44:17PM	Never
ioxoi	84221	BPIP	April03,2018,05:38:18PM	Never
Welsh	84521	BPIP	December05,2018,06:31:03AM	09/07/18
ibminer	84866	BPIP	December05,2018,02:25:32AM	11/11/18
Wardrick	85316	BPIP	January02,2018,03:55:11AM	23/10/17
byt411	87671	BPIP	December03,2018,11:59:11PM	18/05/15
dogie	87869	BPIP	December05,2018,03:58:03AM	27/04/18
BigBitz	95042	BPIP	July31,2018,02:17:27PM	21/01/15
buysolar	95512	BPIP	November30,2018,07:46:31PM	10/04/15
binaryFate	95738	BPIP	November05,2018,05:10:06PM	07/09/17
guitarplinker	95740	BPIP	December05,2018,01:56:03AM	18/04/18
markj113	95989	BPIP	December04,2018,09:49:40PM	12/10/18
xetsr	101763	BPIP	August22,2016,06:39:17AM	03/08/16
Xialla	103451	BPIP	December12,2017,01:19:01AM	11/12/15
TomUnderSea	103602	BPIP	July12,2017,09:04:41AM	23/06/13
dwdoc	105603	BPIP	January26,2018,01:46:50PM	29/12/13
NLNico	107762	BPIP	December05,2018,12:08:51PM	05/11/18
TookDk	109430	BPIP	September22,2018,07:33:29AM	17/07/18
Mitchell	113670	BPIP	December04,2018,02:58:01PM	19/09/18
idee2013	113819	BPIP	November15,2018,08:30:29AM	05/07/13
Tywill	120105	BPIP	June14,2013,10:14:36PM	24/05/13
gdassori	120714	BPIP	April16,2018,12:59:32PM	02/06/15
ghibly79	120821	BPIP	December03,2018,08:51:35PM	30/08/17
sayulita	120945	BPIP	February08,2018,04:42:16PM	18/07/13
DefaultTrust	122551	BPIP	Never	Never
wttbs	123869	BPIP	December05,2018,01:02:19PM	19/11/18
Taras	125747	BPIP	November29,2018,07:02:32AM	15/05/18
MarkAz	128716	BPIP	December05,2018,06:30:34AM	11/07/18
favdesu	130350	BPIP	December04,2018,06:47:28PM	03/11/17
monbux	133846	BPIP	August27,2018,06:08:22PM	15/07/18
devthedev	136592	BPIP	November29,2018,06:55:06PM	04/01/17
FiniteByDesign	136896	BPIP	November24,2018,11:40:26AM	12/10/18
BayAreaCoins	137773	BPIP	December05,2018,03:08:01AM	31/10/18
EFS	140584	BPIP	December05,2018,01:33:59PM	09/02/18
brutale2	151278	BPIP	October31,2018,04:20:07PM	16/06/17
LazerViking	154182	BPIP	March10,2018,01:31:53AM	11/03/16
gentlemand	155345	BPIP	December05,2018,12:41:25PM	13/04/15
hedgy73	162384	BPIP	December05,2018,01:12:19PM	30/07/18
Anon39	165089	BPIP	December04,2018,05:03:56AM	08/08/18
EcuaMobi	169515	BPIP	December05,2018,02:04:07AM	03/12/18
MadZ	174480	BPIP	December05,2018,09:56:37AM	30/12/99
shorena	181801	BPIP	November03,2018,05:03:13PM	03/03/18
Powell	202934	BPIP	November28,2018,05:03:34AM	02/02/15
ManeBjorn	208286	BPIP	December05,2018,06:09:45AM	22/05/18
mitzie	210680	BPIP	December05,2018,09:23:44AM	16/11/14
bithalo	224612	BPIP	December01,2018,05:07:55AM	20/06/17
cryptodevil	224980	BPIP	December04,2018,12:23:45PM	30/11/18
davvo	231686	BPIP	April20,2018,02:52:59PM	30/12/15
suchmoon	234771	BPIP	December05,2018,12:11:05PM	05/12/18
mindtrip	235982	BPIP	November24,2018,04:35:34PM	16/05/18
alch1mista	262971	BPIP	November29,2018,09:29:18AM	03/11/18
Rmcdermott927	289011	BPIP	December04,2018,06:22:21PM	07/11/18
ThePhwner	323638	BPIP	May25,2016,10:17:18PM	15/01/16
argovian	327072	BPIP	August22,2018,04:39:57PM	08/10/14
iluvbitcoins	337097	BPIP	December04,2018,06:13:45PM	21/11/18
Mexxer-2	341982	BPIP	December05,2018,10:18:26AM	19/11/18
minerjones	346731	BPIP	December05,2018,02:07:08PM	04/12/18
sapta	347141	BPIP	December05,2018,02:06:10PM	04/12/18
Finksy	347946	BPIP	February14,2018,04:02:30AM	21/02/17
HagssFIN	348185	BPIP	December05,2018,08:20:53AM	19/10/18
Gleb Gamow	349097	BPIP	June16,2018,04:07:42AM	Never
generalt	354479	BPIP	December05,2018,03:13:16AM	16/04/17
yahoo62278	355846	BPIP	December05,2018,02:01:04PM	23/11/18
MCHouston	371885	BPIP	December01,2018,01:49:47AM	01/06/18
xandry	382413	BPIP	December05,2018,11:08:19AM	11/11/18
kilo17	387443	BPIP	August26,2018,09:03:46PM	15/10/16
Rhavar	389331	BPIP	December05,2018,01:24:17AM	30/11/18
hilariousetc	397737	BPIP	December03,2018,04:24:25PM	08/10/18
LoyceV	459836	BPIP	December05,2018,01:07:20PM	04/12/18
actmyname	465017	BPIP	December04,2018,10:18:13PM	26/11/18
The Pharmacist	487418	BPIP	December05,2018,01:13:04AM	04/12/18
DarkStar_	507936	BPIP	December05,2018,05:40:50PM	04/12/18
Tomatocage1	517424	BPIP	May31,2015,06:18:04PM	Never
Lutpin	520313	BPIP	December04,2018,10:50:30PM	02/08/18
marlboroza	787736	BPIP	December05,2018,12:03:46PM	04/12/18
Hhampuz	881377	BPIP	December05,2018,10:52:55AM	02/12/18
loshia1974	1294878	BPIP	September18,2018,03:26:46AM	Never

[1714908325]

1714908325

[coinlocket$]

THE REMOVED & ESCLUDED DT2 LIST

_____________________	_____________________	_____________
PROFILE	ID NUMBER°	BPIP
StephenGornick	2228	BPIP
Ryland R.Taylor-Almanza	4758	BPIP
TECSHARE	15728	BPIP
CanaryInTheMine	18614	BPIP
Phinnaeus Gage	24792	BPIP
Todamont	29696	BPIP
Anduck	31931	BPIP
ElCabron	44233	BPIP
Justin00	55432	BPIP
squall1066	55503	BPIP
Xian01	58223	BPIP
TheButterZone	60600	BPIP
lophie	62227	BPIP
TradeFortress 🏕	67058	BPIP
johnniewalker	72227	BPIP
escrow.ms	76380	BPIP
uhnonamiss	77188	BPIP
nubbins	78483	BPIP
Master-P	89329	BPIP
rammy2k2	94485	BPIP
TMAN	98986	BPIP
Lauda	101872	BPIP
blackarrow	105804	BPIP
pr0d1gy	106439	BPIP
isoneguy	109362	BPIP
Timelord2067	131361	BPIP
aTriz	135920	BPIP
nachius	138601	BPIP
minifrij	138940	BPIP
klaaas	147451	BPIP
marcotheminer	147773	BPIP
justbtcme	148389	BPIP
kashish948	152514	BPIP
bitmarket.io	162203	BPIP
artw1982	186695	BPIP
anonymous22	248833	BPIP
crunck	307195	BPIP
Jaaawsh	308108	BPIP
owlcatz	313016	BPIP
shdvb	318030	BPIP
dazedfool	327499	BPIP
LYCAN	344701	BPIP
Quickseller	358020	BPIP
Spodermen	366423	BPIP
Zepher	369879	BPIP
IronMarvel2	411686	BPIP
gate11	447885	BPIP
Last of the V8s	479624	BPIP
HabBear	662570	BPIP
digaran	806776	BPIP
Game-protect	874254	BPIP
nullius	976210	BPIP
Hector9	1937008	BPIP

[coinlocket$]

DT2 LAST FEEDBACK SENT ORDER

_____________________	_____________________	_____________	___________________________	_____________
PROFILE	ID NUMBER°	BPIP	LAST ACTIVITY	LAST FEEDBACK
Carnth	15682	BPIP	August21,2015,04:20:58AM	24/05/13
xkrikl	53416	BPIP	October15,2014,12:09:43PM	24/05/13
Tywill	120105	BPIP	June14,2013,10:14:36PM	24/05/13
mikegogulski	2285	BPIP	July19,2018,02:06:48PM	25/05/13
sirius	4	BPIP	January06,2018,01:12:21PM	26/05/13
ineededausername	40007	BPIP	December12,2016,11:36:17PM	26/05/13
shiftybugger	76857	BPIP	February10,2014,08:38:38PM	12/06/13
TomUnderSea	103602	BPIP	July12,2017,09:04:41AM	23/06/13
idee2013	113819	BPIP	November15,2018,08:30:29AM	05/07/13
rb1205	14716	BPIP	February11,2018,08:35:47PM	13/07/13
sayulita	120945	BPIP	February08,2018,04:42:16PM	18/07/13
Matthew N. Wright	24749	BPIP	January23,2014,04:40:03AM	13/08/13
DeaDTerra	40976	BPIP	October22,2018,03:26:31PM	08/09/13
jwzguy	15540	BPIP	December05,2017,06:16:17PM	27/09/13
paraipan	29395	BPIP	June02,2014,01:33:58AM	19/10/13
fernarios	76332	BPIP	November09,2018,08:47:26PM	22/11/13
danieldaniel	33781	BPIP	May28,2018,12:01:01AM	23/11/13
btharper	58297	BPIP	November25,2018,10:21:53PM	30/11/13
majamalu	14792	BPIP	August25,2017,05:13:53AM	05/12/13
burnside	59012	BPIP	December04,2018,07:01:19AM	05/12/13
dwdoc	105603	BPIP	January26,2018,01:46:50PM	29/12/13
ThickAsThieves	79242	BPIP	September25,2016,04:29:56PM	02/03/14
diego1000	57872	BPIP	February26,2018,07:18:15PM	18/03/14
LoweryCBS	61196	BPIP	December04,2018,01:27:30PM	20/03/14
Caesium	15913	BPIP	March30,2017,09:48:43AM	02/08/14
dree12	37096	BPIP	December07,2017,05:27:02AM	17/08/14
BurtW	14808	BPIP	November09,2018,12:51:19AM	25/08/14
argovian	327072	BPIP	August22,2018,04:39:57PM	08/10/14
Kluge	11671	BPIP	May25,2018,01:18:11PM	16/10/14
mitzie	210680	BPIP	December05,2018,09:23:44AM	16/11/14
teukon	14685	BPIP	July09,2016,11:25:03PM	20/12/14
DeathAndTaxes	41048	BPIP	April22,2015,11:53:28AM	09/01/15
BigBitz	95042	BPIP	July31,2018,02:17:27PM	21/01/15
sveetsnelda	26772	BPIP	January22,2018,06:56:46AM	27/01/15
Powell	202934	BPIP	November28,2018,05:03:34AM	02/02/15
Cablez	54059	BPIP	January28,2018,02:15:37AM	19/02/15
Korbman	29254	BPIP	December02,2018,11:40:08PM	25/02/15
haploid23	18062	BPIP	March28,2015,04:14:50PM	18/03/15
BensonSamuel	66510	BPIP	June20,2018,06:52:38AM	29/03/15
molecular	3771	BPIP	November30,2018,09:05:39PM	04/04/15
MiningBuddy	14001	BPIP	April04,2018,01:24:05PM	09/04/15
buysolar	95512	BPIP	November30,2018,07:46:31PM	10/04/15
gentlemand	155345	BPIP	December05,2018,12:41:25PM	13/04/15
Mousepotato	15510	BPIP	July26,2016,09:02:53PM	05/05/15
byt411	87671	BPIP	December03,2018,11:59:11PM	18/05/15
gdassori	120714	BPIP	April16,2018,12:59:32PM	02/06/15
wallet.dat	35123	BPIP	July07,2015,08:50:26PM	09/06/15
the joint	24314	BPIP	November21,2018,06:58:56PM	18/06/15
bertani	76206	BPIP	October25,2016,07:43:56AM	13/08/15
Raize	4171	BPIP	November05,2018,01:19:17AM	02/10/15
Cripto	76216	BPIP	May19,2018,03:32:52PM	02/11/15
Light	2818	BPIP	November25,2018,05:24:33AM	16/11/15
Bees Brothers	50107	BPIP	November26,2018,06:33:37PM	18/11/15
Xialla	103451	BPIP	December12,2017,01:19:01AM	11/12/15
davvo	231686	BPIP	April20,2018,02:52:59PM	30/12/15
ThePhwner	323638	BPIP	May25,2016,10:17:18PM	15/01/16
casascius	2676	BPIP	November04,2018,08:37:10PM	23/01/16
LazerViking	154182	BPIP	March10,2018,01:31:53AM	11/03/16
BadBear	41911	BPIP	April02,2018,12:39:12PM	15/04/16
DiamondCardz	55122	BPIP	May13,2018,04:28:09PM	27/05/16
ziomik	27427	BPIP	December03,2018,01:30:18PM	26/06/16
maxmint	36677	BPIP	November14,2018,06:52:05PM	16/07/16
xetsr	101763	BPIP	August22,2016,06:39:17AM	03/08/16
CrazyGuy	25223	BPIP	November30,2018,07:20:09PM	10/09/16
kilo17	387443	BPIP	August26,2018,09:03:46PM	15/10/16
stenkross	66253	BPIP	November18,2017,07:50:01AM	22/10/16
ercolinux	31410	BPIP	October25,2018,07:51:33PM	23/12/16
paci	15648	BPIP	November05,2018,10:36:08AM	29/12/16
devthedev	136592	BPIP	November29,2018,06:55:06PM	04/01/17
Finksy	347946	BPIP	February14,2018,04:02:30AM	21/02/17
jackjack	21053	BPIP	May13,2018,10:02:22AM	23/02/17
kelpy	71769	BPIP	December05,2018,10:51:54AM	27/02/17
generalt	354479	BPIP	December05,2018,03:13:16AM	16/04/17
Mushroomized	34882	BPIP	March31,2018,08:23:16PM	21/04/17
davecoin	58365	BPIP	December05,2018,06:07:19AM	08/05/17
Stemby	18953	BPIP	November25,2018,01:56:25AM	19/05/17
smoothie	25960	BPIP	December05,2018,11:02:15AM	28/05/17
brutale2	151278	BPIP	October31,2018,04:20:07PM	16/06/17
bithalo	224612	BPIP	December01,2018,05:07:55AM	20/06/17
vgo	53862	BPIP	November09,2018,08:22:03PM	18/08/17
tysat	17261	BPIP	July16,2018,12:54:28PM	27/08/17
ghibly79	120821	BPIP	December03,2018,08:51:35PM	30/08/17
binaryFate	95738	BPIP	November05,2018,05:10:06PM	07/09/17
GIANNAT	73619	BPIP	March30,2018,11:13:20AM	29/09/17
Wardrick	85316	BPIP	January02,2018,03:55:11AM	23/10/17
favdesu	130350	BPIP	December04,2018,06:47:28PM	03/11/17
EpiSKiNG	7351	BPIP	April23,2018,05:19:31PM	05/12/17
mdude77	48765	BPIP	October07,2018,01:49:47AM	05/12/17
zvs	19897	BPIP	November23,2018,03:30:13AM	06/12/17
BCB	54113	BPIP	September09,2018,06:55:36PM	18/12/17
Michail1	31539	BPIP	November28,2018,04:57:35PM	30/12/17
grue	5797	BPIP	August01,2018,03:00:20AM	21/01/18
EFS	140584	BPIP	December05,2018,01:33:59PM	09/02/18
naypalm	27273	BPIP	November06,2018,11:24:51PM	12/02/18
Dabs	54791	BPIP	December01,2018,04:04:21AM	15/02/18
Blazr	51908	BPIP	July06,2018,08:54:56AM	17/02/18
shorena	181801	BPIP	November03,2018,05:03:13PM	03/03/18
DannyHamilton	60820	BPIP	September24,2018,01:39:55PM	07/03/18
phantastisch	18312	BPIP	November04,2018,05:00:25PM	13/03/18
allinvain	198	BPIP	December05,2018,12:00:50PM	11/04/18
bigtimespaghetti	65317	BPIP	November26,2018,11:44:16PM	14/04/18
guitarplinker	95740	BPIP	December05,2018,01:56:03AM	18/04/18
dogie	87869	BPIP	December05,2018,03:58:03AM	27/04/18
Taras	125747	BPIP	November29,2018,07:02:32AM	15/05/18
mindtrip	235982	BPIP	November24,2018,04:35:34PM	16/05/18
John (JohnK.)	31288	BPIP	December05,2018,05:38:46AM	20/05/18
monkeynuts	81962	BPIP	December04,2018,11:44:59PM	22/05/18
ManeBjorn	208286	BPIP	December05,2018,06:09:45AM	22/05/18
MCHouston	371885	BPIP	December01,2018,01:49:47AM	01/06/18
-ck	19971	BPIP	December05,2018,04:22:19AM	05/06/18
Welsh	84521	BPIP	December05,2018,06:31:03AM	09/07/18
MarkAz	128716	BPIP	December05,2018,06:30:34AM	11/07/18
monbux	133846	BPIP	August27,2018,06:08:22PM	15/07/18
TookDk	109430	BPIP	September22,2018,07:33:29AM	17/07/18
hedgy73	162384	BPIP	December05,2018,01:12:19PM	30/07/18
Lutpin	520313	BPIP	December04,2018,10:50:30PM	02/08/18
Anon39	165089	BPIP	December04,2018,05:03:56AM	08/08/18
KWH	70535	BPIP	December05,2018,12:25:32PM	19/08/18
Mitchell	113670	BPIP	December04,2018,02:58:01PM	19/09/18
piotr_n	12089	BPIP	December04,2018,05:58:19PM	03/10/18
malevolent	23092	BPIP	December04,2018,05:26:20AM	04/10/18
hilariousetc	397737	BPIP	December03,2018,04:24:25PM	08/10/18
markj113	95989	BPIP	December04,2018,09:49:40PM	12/10/18
FiniteByDesign	136896	BPIP	November24,2018,11:40:26AM	12/10/18
HagssFIN	348185	BPIP	December05,2018,08:20:53AM	19/10/18
BayAreaCoins	137773	BPIP	December05,2018,03:08:01AM	31/10/18
alch1mista	262971	BPIP	November29,2018,09:29:18AM	03/11/18
NLNico	107762	BPIP	December05,2018,12:08:51PM	05/11/18
Rmcdermott927	289011	BPIP	December04,2018,06:22:21PM	07/11/18
ibminer	84866	BPIP	December05,2018,02:25:32AM	11/11/18
xandry	382413	BPIP	December05,2018,11:08:19AM	11/11/18
wttbs	123869	BPIP	December05,2018,01:02:19PM	19/11/18
Mexxer-2	341982	BPIP	December05,2018,10:18:26AM	19/11/18
yxt	23810	BPIP	December05,2018,07:41:42AM	20/11/18
qwk	24140	BPIP	December05,2018,09:53:42AM	21/11/18
iluvbitcoins	337097	BPIP	December04,2018,06:13:45PM	21/11/18
SebastianJu	18640	BPIP	December05,2018,12:05:56PM	22/11/18
yahoo62278	355846	BPIP	December05,2018,02:01:04PM	23/11/18
actmyname	465017	BPIP	December04,2018,10:18:13PM	26/11/18
gmaxwell	11425	BPIP	December05,2018,03:47:11AM	27/11/18
Stunna	81292	BPIP	December03,2018,02:16:44AM	29/11/18
cryptodevil	224980	BPIP	December04,2018,12:23:45PM	30/11/18
Rhavar	389331	BPIP	December05,2018,01:24:17AM	30/11/18
mprep	51173	BPIP	December05,2018,01:56:30PM	01/12/18
Vod	30747	BPIP	December05,2018,11:15:37AM	02/12/18
Hhampuz	881377	BPIP	December05,2018,10:52:55AM	02/12/18
EcuaMobi	169515	BPIP	December05,2018,02:04:07AM	03/12/18
minerjones	346731	BPIP	December05,2018,02:07:08PM	04/12/18
sapta	347141	BPIP	December05,2018,02:06:10PM	04/12/18
LoyceV	459836	BPIP	December05,2018,01:07:20PM	04/12/18
The Pharmacist	487418	BPIP	December05,2018,01:13:04AM	04/12/18
DarkStar_	507936	BPIP	December05,2018,05:40:50PM	04/12/18
marlboroza	787736	BPIP	December05,2018,12:03:46PM	04/12/18
suchmoon	234771	BPIP	December05,2018,12:11:05PM	05/12/18
Gavin Andresen	224	BPIP	October11,2018,05:08:38PM	Never
nanotube	1268	BPIP	July18,2018,01:31:49PM	Never
piuk	17928	BPIP	June19,2015,07:52:05PM	Never
aigeezer	24674	BPIP	December05,2018,03:05:24AM	Never
Shawshank	42880	BPIP	December04,2018,09:38:27PM	Never
LuisCar	70416	BPIP	December02,2018,09:40:01AM	Never
fluidjax	83655	BPIP	December04,2018,06:44:17PM	Never
ioxoi	84221	BPIP	April03,2018,05:38:18PM	Never
DefaultTrust	122551	BPIP	Never	Never
Gleb Gamow	349097	BPIP	June16,2018,04:07:42AM	Never
Tomatocage1	517424	BPIP	May31,2015,06:18:04PM	Never
loshia1974	1294878	BPIP	September18,2018,03:26:46AM	Never

[coinlocket$]

_____________________	_____________	_____________
PROFILE	LAST ACTIVITY	LAST FEEDBACK
Tywill	14/06/2013 22:14	24/05/2013

_____________________	_____________	_____________
PROFILE	LAST ACTIVITY	LAST FEEDBACK
MatthewN.Wright	23/01/2014 04:40	13/08/2013
shiftybugger	10/02/2014 20:38	12/06/2013
paraipan	02/06/2014 01:33	19/10/2013
xkrikl	15/10/2014 12:09	24/05/2013

_____________________	_____________	_____________
PROFILE	LAST ACTIVITY	LAST FEEDBACK
haploid23	28/03/2015 16:14	18/03/2015
DeathAndTaxes	22/04/2015 11:53	09/01/2015
Tomatocage1	31/05/2015 18:18	Never
piuk	19/06/2015 19:52	Never
wallet.dat	07/07/2015 20:50	09/06/2015
Carnth	21/08/2015 04:20	24/05/2013

_____________________	_____________	_____________
PROFILE	LAST ACTIVITY	LAST FEEDBACK
ThePhwner	25/05/2016 22:17	15/01/2016
teukon	09/07/2016 23:25	20/12/2014
Mousepotato	26/07/2016 21:02	05/05/2015
xetsr	22/08/2016 06:39	03/08/2016
ThickAsThieves	25/09/2016 16:29	02/03/2014
bertani	25/10/2016 07:43	13/08/2015
ineededausername	12/12/2016 23:36	26/05/2013

_____________________	_____________	_____________
PROFILE	LAST ACTIVITY	LAST FEEDBACK
Caesium	30/03/2017 09:48	02/08/2014
TomUnderSea	12/07/2017 09:04	23/06/2013
majamalu	25/08/2017 05:13	05/12/2013
stenkross	18/11/2017 07:50	22/10/2016
jwzguy	05/12/2017 18:16	27/09/2013
dree12	07/12/2017 05:27	17/08/2014
Xialla	12/12/2017 01:19	11/12/2015

_____________________	_____________	_____________
PROFILE	LAST ACTIVITY	LAST FEEDBACK
Wardrick	02/01/2018 03:55	23/10/2017
sirius	06/01/2018 13:12	26/05/2013
sveetsnelda	22/01/2018 06:56	27/01/2015
dwdoc	26/01/2018 13:46	29/12/2013
Cablez	28/01/2018 02:15	19/02/2015
sayulita	08/02/2018 16:42	18/07/2013
rb1205	11/02/2018 20:35	13/07/2013
Finksy	14/02/2018 04:02	21/02/2017
diego1000	26/02/2018 19:18	18/03/2014
LazerViking	10/03/2018 01:31	11/03/2016
GIANNAT	30/03/2018 11:13	29/09/2017
Mushroomized	31/03/2018 20:23	21/04/2017
BadBear	02/04/2018 12:39	15/04/2016
ioxoi	03/04/2018 17:38	Never
MiningBuddy	04/04/2018 13:24	09/04/2015
gdassori	16/04/2018 12:59	02/06/2015
davvo	20/04/2018 14:52	30/12/2015
EpiSKiNG	23/04/2018 17:19	05/12/2017
jackjack	13/05/2018 10:02	23/02/2017
DiamondCardz	13/05/2018 16:28	27/05/2016
Cripto	19/05/2018 15:32	02/11/2015
Kluge	25/05/2018 13:18	16/10/2014
danieldaniel	28/05/2018 00:01	23/11/2013
GlebGamow	16/06/2018 04:07	Never
BensonSamuel	20/06/2018 06:52	29/03/2015
Blazr	06/07/2018 08:54	17/02/2018
tysat	16/07/2018 12:54	27/08/2017
nanotube	18/07/2018 13:31	Never
mikegogulski	19/07/2018 14:06	25/05/2013
BigBitz	31/07/2018 14:17	21/01/2015
grue	01/08/2018 03:00	21/01/2018
argovian	22/08/2018 16:39	08/10/2014
kilo17	26/08/2018 21:03	15/10/2016
monbux	27/08/2018 18:08	15/07/2018
BCB	09/09/2018 18:55	18/12/2017
loshia1974	18/09/2018 03:26	Never
TookDk	22/09/2018 07:33	17/07/2018
DannyHamilton	24/09/2018 13:39	07/03/2018
mdude77	07/10/2018 01:49	05/12/2017
GavinAndresen	11/10/2018 17:08	Never
DeaDTerra	22/10/2018 15:26	08/09/2013
ercolinux	25/10/2018 19:51	23/12/2016
brutale2	31/10/2018 16:20	16/06/2017
shorena	03/11/2018 17:03	03/03/2018
phantastisch	04/11/2018 17:00	13/03/2018
casascius	04/11/2018 20:37	23/01/2016
Raize	05/11/2018 01:19	02/10/2015
paci	05/11/2018 10:36	29/12/2016
binaryFate	05/11/2018 17:10	07/09/2017
naypalm	06/11/2018 23:24	12/02/2018
BurtW	09/11/2018 00:51	25/08/2014
vgo	09/11/2018 20:22	18/08/2017
fernarios	09/11/2018 20:47	22/11/2013
maxmint	14/11/2018 18:52	16/07/2016
idee2013	15/11/2018 08:30	05/07/2013
thejoint	21/11/2018 18:58	18/06/2015
zvs	23/11/2018 03:30	06/12/2017
FiniteByDesign	24/11/2018 11:40	12/10/2018
mindtrip	24/11/2018 16:35	16/05/2018
Stemby	25/11/2018 01:56	19/05/2017
Light	25/11/2018 05:24	16/11/2015
btharper	25/11/2018 22:21	30/11/2013
BeesBrothers	26/11/2018 18:33	18/11/2015
bigtimespaghetti	26/11/2018 23:44	14/04/2018
Powell	28/11/2018 05:03	02/02/2015
Michail1	28/11/2018 16:57	30/12/2017
Taras	29/11/2018 07:02	15/05/2018
alch1mista	29/11/2018 09:29	03/11/2018
devthedev	29/11/2018 18:55	04/01/2017
CrazyGuy	30/11/2018 19:20	10/09/2016
buysolar	30/11/2018 19:46	10/04/2015
molecular	30/11/2018 21:05	04/04/2015
MCHouston	01/12/2018 01:49	01/06/2018
Dabs	01/12/2018 04:04	15/02/2018
bithalo	01/12/2018 05:07	20/06/2017
LuisCar	02/12/2018 09:40	Never
Korbman	02/12/2018 23:40	25/02/2015
Stunna	03/12/2018 02:16	29/11/2018
ziomik	03/12/2018 13:30	26/06/2016
hilariousetc	03/12/2018 16:24	08/10/2018
ghibly79	03/12/2018 20:51	30/08/2017
byt411	03/12/2018 23:59	18/05/2015
Anon39	04/12/2018 05:03	08/08/2018
malevolent	04/12/2018 05:26	04/10/2018
burnside	04/12/2018 07:01	05/12/2013
cryptodevil	04/12/2018 12:23	30/11/2018
LoweryCBS	04/12/2018 13:27	20/03/2014
Mitchell	04/12/2018 14:58	19/09/2018
piotr_n	04/12/2018 17:58	03/10/2018
iluvbitcoins	04/12/2018 18:13	21/11/2018
Rmcdermott927	04/12/2018 18:22	07/11/2018
fluidjax	04/12/2018 18:44	Never
favdesu	04/12/2018 18:47	03/11/2017
Shawshank	04/12/2018 21:38	Never
markj113	04/12/2018 21:49	12/10/2018
actmyname	04/12/2018 22:18	26/11/2018
Lutpin	04/12/2018 22:50	02/08/2018
monkeynuts	04/12/2018 23:44	22/05/2018
ThePharmacist	05/12/2018 01:13	04/12/2018
Rhavar	05/12/2018 01:24	30/11/2018
guitarplinker	05/12/2018 01:56	18/04/2018
EcuaMobi	05/12/2018 02:04	03/12/2018
ibminer	05/12/2018 02:25	11/11/2018
aigeezer	05/12/2018 03:05	Never
BayAreaCoins	05/12/2018 03:08	31/10/2018
generalt	05/12/2018 03:13	16/04/2017
gmaxwell	05/12/2018 03:47	27/11/2018
dogie	05/12/2018 03:58	27/04/2018
-ck	05/12/2018 04:22	05/06/2018
John(JohnK.)	05/12/2018 05:38	20/05/2018
davecoin	05/12/2018 06:07	08/05/2017
ManeBjorn	05/12/2018 06:09	22/05/2018
MarkAz	05/12/2018 06:30	11/07/2018
Welsh	05/12/2018 06:31	09/07/2018
yxt	05/12/2018 07:41	20/11/2018
HagssFIN	05/12/2018 08:20	19/10/2018
mitzie	05/12/2018 09:23	16/11/2014
qwk	05/12/2018 09:53	21/11/2018
MadZ	05/12/2018 09:56	00/01/1900
Mexxer-2	05/12/2018 10:18	19/11/2018
kelpy	05/12/2018 10:51	27/02/2017
Hhampuz	05/12/2018 10:52	02/12/2018
smoothie	05/12/2018 11:02	28/05/2017
xandry	05/12/2018 11:08	11/11/2018
Vod	05/12/2018 11:15	02/12/2018
allinvain	05/12/2018 12:00	11/04/2018
marlboroza	05/12/2018 12:03	04/12/2018
SebastianJu	05/12/2018 12:05	22/11/2018
NLNico	05/12/2018 12:08	05/11/2018
suchmoon	05/12/2018 12:11	05/12/2018
KWH	05/12/2018 12:25	19/08/2018
gentlemand	05/12/2018 12:41	13/04/2015
wttbs	05/12/2018 13:02	19/11/2018
LoyceV	05/12/2018 13:07	04/12/2018
hedgy73	05/12/2018 13:12	30/07/2018
EFS	05/12/2018 13:33	09/02/2018
mprep	05/12/2018 13:56	01/12/2018
yahoo62278	05/12/2018 14:01	23/11/2018
sapta	05/12/2018 14:06	04/12/2018
minerjones	05/12/2018 14:07	04/12/2018
DarkStar_	05/12/2018 17:40	04/12/2018
DefaultTrust	Never	Never

[Lauda]

For some random reason, theymos doesn't seem fond of removing inactive users (which are liabilities). It took forever to kick out DeadTerra for example.
I wonder whether this will cause flame-wars again or have people grown tired of them.

It is a bit weird that a lot of people on dt are getting positive and negative trust.

Don't question the establishment and no negatives will be sent your way.

[jackg]

I’m surprised Sirius isn’t dt1, afaik he’s still holding the domain for this site.

A lot of the people removed from dt2 were re over for food reason. I think Taf was taken off for security reasons. Atriz scammed people in icos.

It is a bit weird that a lot of people on dt are getting positive and negative trust. theymos even got a negative recently too...

[The Sceptical Chymist]

People have called me a nincompoop, unintelligent, ignorant, and lots of other things and to an extent I can see how I can come off that way when discussing certain things--and man do I feel completely stupid for not knowing a lot of these things posted above, like that TMAN & owlcatz were removed from DT2 or that nullius and aTriz were even on it. 

I also didn't fully realize how small the DT1 list is.  I know I've seen it before, but for some reason I had the impression that it had a lot more members on it than it apparently does.

If a DT1 member trusts someone for whatever reason, I think the DT1 member is fully justified in adding the member to his trust list, thereby making that member a DT2 member.  It shouldn't matter in the least if the newly-anointed DT2 member is active or leaves a lot of feedback or anything else.  The point is that the DT2 member can be trusted.  He's not required to be a scam buster or to use his DT status for anything if he doesn't want to.  Hell, I don't recognize half the DT2 members on that list, but I wouldn't argue that they should be removed just because they're inactive. 

What I worry about is inactive accounts getting hacked or sold.  If you could get your hands on a DT2 account, you could probably work a decent scam and make a good chunk of change before you got caught.  Wasn't there some allegation that the Master-P account was sold or something?  I know it wasn't that long ago that he pulled his exit scam, but I forget the details.

I like this thread.  Thanks for posting all of this data, coinlocket$.

[Lauda]

What I worry about is inactive accounts getting hacked or sold. 

For some random reason, theymos doesn't seem fond of removing inactive users (which are liabilities). It took forever to kick out DeadTerra for example.

^this. I had to bring this case up several times.

[jackg]

What I worry about is inactive accounts getting hacked or sold. 

For some random reason, theymos doesn't seem fond of removing inactive users (which are liabilities). It took forever to kick out DeadTerra for example.

^this. I had to bring this case up several times.

Maybe there should be some sort of secban in place for people who don’t log in for 30 days. Then get an automated system that validates a signed message for a stamped address from a given post id.

[ibminer]

• 235 Accounts are or were on the DT2 list
• 53 Accounts has been removed from the DT2 list

The Pharmacist touched on this, but if someone is excluded, it doesn't necessarily mean they were once included. I believe there are some DT1 members that have excluded accounts whom have never been included, I assume to avoid them getting easily included in the future.

[coinlocket$]

The Pharmacist touched on this, but if someone is excluded, it doesn't necessarily mean they were once included. I believe there are some DT1 members that have excluded accounts whom have never been included, I assume to avoid them getting easily included in the future.

Got it, fixing the posts n°1&2.

[tmfp]

The most recent thoughts of our Esteemed Leader that I could find about DT were in reply to a proposal to include Level 3 by default setting (as I vaguely recall it being in the Old Days).
 

I've thought about that, but I tend to think that it'd be better to make it broader rather than deeper.

Well, the only logical way to do that would be to promote selected level D2's to D1, they in turn would bring their currently included DT3's into Level 2. It seems reasonable to think that, if you believe the overall system has value and integrity, that is the only way that any sort of quality control could be maintained.
How to select which current DT2 members for upgrade from the current 200 odd is another matter. Two choices that I can see: either those  currently included by the most DT1's, or by centralized dictat.

For some random reason, theymos doesn't seem fond of removing inactive users (which are liabilities).

Yes. Apart from the hijack/hack danger, trust is dynamic not static.

[Coin-1]

I recently analyzed the Marketplace Trust network and created this thread:
[TOP-200] The most trusted members (DT1, DT2, DT3)

I am sure that the Default Trust system is still working. I am also astonished by how many inactive members are in the DT2 list.

• With some exceptions like alt accounts the last account added on DT2 list is the number 881377 @Hhampuz

As far as I know, the last account added to the DT2 list is iluvbitcoins.

Anyways, good work, @OP.

By the way, I need to update my thread, although there are no significant changes.

[coinlocket$]

As far as I know, the last account added to the DT2 list is iluvbitcoins.

Anyways, good work, @OP.
~

I meant the last account created and added on the DT list (id not in base of the temporal line), so far no accounts above the account n=881377 as been added on the DT list, we have only u=1294878 loshia1974, but reading feedbacks Here is only an alt account

Code:

his original account was hacked.


his new account just paid and fixed a 25 ltc mining issue on the http://ltc.tbdice.org/

pool

I am pretty sure of

loshia1974 = real

loshia = hacked 

[eddie13]

not required to be a scam buster

I think DT is more for placing valid scammer tags and the only sure avenu to becoming DT is to become a scambuster and leave a lot of valid negative feedback.
DT positive is very conservative because you are basically staking your reputation to vouch for someone, or risking the reputation of your judgment for not much gain. Moreso adding someone to DT2 because then you are staking your judgment on them not only not to scam, but on their judgment of others not to scam. It's just much easier and safer not to, and their isn't much upside.

Negatives are much more common and easier because you just prove a fact and that's it, and can't really be undone or later disproved while deserving a positive vouch can easily be undone in the future by a fact of bad action.
It is widely accepted that one shouldn't leave a positive just for any successful trade because blah blah risk not proof etc.
Negatives are 99.9% provable fact and positives are a judgement call, the way feedback is used.

I think it also has a lot to do with benefit to the community.
Scambusters and negative tags are very beneficial to the community to warn others and stop bad actors while positives are only good for what?, saving some traders some escrow fees and slight complexity in trading?
Positives don't really help a person much while negatives have a massive impact.

It is a lot less risky and more beneficial to add someone to DT2 that places a lot of valid scammer tags than it is to add someone who places a lot of positive feedback.

This site has turned more into a place for service gigs like advertising in one form or another, work you don't really need to be trusted to do, and less p2p trading where trust between parties is key and positive feedback is beneficial.

From what I see, not that I completely agree, not directed at TP, just my 2C.

[jackg]

@eddie, I don’t like that sort of system as we have now.

I don’t think scam busters should be on dt merely for being scam busters and it’s why quite a few have gone on to scam and also why mdayonliner got negative trust too.
A system in which verifiable trades get chives positive trust in return, is as I see it, a much better system. Call me old fashioned, I like people to only give trust when they’ve had something at stake and it’s paid off.

[eddie13]

@eddie, I don’t like that sort of system as we have now.

I don’t think scam busters should be on dt merely for being scam busters and it’s why quite a few have gone on to scam and also why mdayonliner got negative trust too.
A system in which verifiable trades get chives positive trust in return, is as I see it, a much better system. Call me old fashioned, I like people to only give trust when they’ve had something at stake and it’s paid off.

It could be worse. The system we have isn't perfect but what system is?

I am suspicious of users "Gunning for DT", I think we all should be, we need to keep an eye on them, and even they should understand that and be open to it.
The merit system has made it a bit worse, or should I say increased that activity, because the same avenue is also an outstanding path to a lot of merits. 
But you can't just hate them. I can't blame a guy for being ambitious and some of them have turned out pretty good. But this is crypto, and the internet, and we should be suspicious of everything and keep in mind their ultimate motives.

I don't think a person should be added to DT only for having left a lot of valid feedback, but should also display very good judgment in complex cases, and also be trustworthy enough not to be setting up for a long con. But leaving valid feedback is a good reason to add them.
It's not like DT=Trusted escrow though. I'm not sure I would trust half of them just to not screw up and lose my coins, and be willing and able to reimburse me if they did.

I understand the ideas behind wanting to leave positive feedback for all successful trades, or only trades where you took a risk, or only to those you would vouch for, or be against positive feedback left in the absence of any trade, or for it, or for or against leaving a negative with no trade. They all have pros and cons.
I'm generally for anybody doing whatever they think is the right thing to do even if their ideas are not parallel. As long as they have good intentions mostly in line with my view Satoshi's vision of liberty I guess.

[Lauda]

A system in which verifiable trades get chives positive trust in return, is as I see it, a much better system.

All cheer for trust farming via 0.01 BTC trades.

For some random reason, theymos doesn't seem fond of removing inactive users (which are liabilities).

Yes. Apart from the hijack/hack danger, trust is dynamic not static.

It looks like a lot of people don't understand this here, or at least do not mention it that often. An examplatory question: If you trusted someone after a few smaller trades a few years ago, do you still trust him equally now (assuming you didn't trade with the user anymore after  that e.g.)? The sensible answer would be a no. Decay and inappropriate actions should make it shift.

[LoyceV]

I meant the last account created and added on the DT list (id not in base of the temporal line), so far no accounts above the account n=881377 as been added on the DT list, we have only u=1294878 loshia1974, but reading feedbacks Here is only an alt account

This surprised me too after seeing your sorted list. I didn't expect DT to be filled with mainly old members. The newest DT1 is more than 5 years old (I'm ignoring OldScammerTag here), and about 90% of DT2 is more than 4 years old.
I would guess many of the current DT-members were much less than 4 years old when they were added, which would mean getting on DT is harder now than it was 4 years ago. Of course it doesn't help that so many new users are spammers, but the number of decent posters went up too when Bitcoin gained popularity.

I think DT is more for placing valid scammer tags and the only sure avenu to becoming DT is to become a scambuster and leave a lot of valid negative feedback.

I was put on DT without leaving a lot of negatives. But when I do, I try to be thorough.

[jackg]

Quick seller got caught out, why won’t others @lauda.
@loycev, I’m not surprised by that at all. Generally, like gaining merit, users seem to want to focus on others’ history. It goes without saying mid you’ve been here longer you have more history and more references than someone who has been here for a much shorter amount of time.

Nullius gaining so much trust makes me think he’s a known alt of someone too. There as a core dev or at least someone around bitcoin a few years ago who went by a similar name.

[theymos]

I don't like how the current system is working at all. It was never intended to be a top-down "decision-making body". Everyone is supposed to set a custom list, and DefaultTrust is supposed to just be a stepping stone for newbies.

But what do you propose to fix it? Keep in mind that:
 - The #1 thing to be avoided is someone keeping illegitimate positive trust for long, since that facilitates scamming.
 - It's kind of OK for someone to get illegitimate negative trust, but if it's wrong then it should be removed eventually.
 - Other than that, it's best to have as many ratings trusted as possible.

Some possibilities which have come to my mind:

Force custom lists

Display an annoying message instead of a trust score next to every post until the person sets a custom list with the assistance of the set initial trust page.

Pros:
 - No remnant of top-down decision-making remains.
Cons:
 - Newbies will often choose poorly, especially since the suggested list is possibly manipulable.
 - I've been thinking that I might want to enable trust for non-users, and that'd be impossible with this.

Athenian democracy

Every month, pick ~30 random users from the set of users who meet certain fairly strict criteria. Those users are DT1 for the month. As a special exception to the normal trust network construction algorithm, distrusts in DT1 will also affect DT1; ie. if a user on DT1 has -1 or less net trusters on DT1, then they will not be considered to be on DT1 anymore.

Pros:
 - I think that it'd end up being fairly accurate on average.
 - It strongly encourages people to maintain good trust lists at all times.
 - Since it'd be erratic, it'd encourage people to not use DefaultTrust, which I don't want people to be doing.
 - It's not very top-down, though in some cases major failures might require manual adjustment.
 - It can be used by non-users.
Cons:
 - The stability everyone has gotten used to with DT will be gone.
 - Some degree of abuse is inevitable. There will be constant battles to get things working reasonably.

Voting

I'm not a fan of voting, especially in an environment like this where sockpuppets are impossible to prevent, but maybe it could be made to work with sufficient layers and oversight. For a while I was thinking about a complicated system in which users would self-assign themselves to "tribes", elect tribal leaders, and then the leaders would construct DT1 (plus some other stuff). I think I've decided that this particular method would be overly complicated and not sufficiently useful, though. Alternatives are possible.

Algorithmic

Maybe there's some algorithmic way of looking at the universal trust graph and pulling out a DT1 which would guarantee several important properties, even in the face of manipulation. I thought about it for a while, but I couldn't figure anything out.


If you have specific suggestions for alterations to the current DT1 list, then make a topic about it. I think that the system is structurally flawed as it is now, though.

[suchmoon]

I don't see anything particularly bad about forcing custom lists. Yes, some users will choose poorly but the other options are potentially as much or more dangerous - e.g. if there's a flaw or loophole in the algorithm it would impose wrong choices on users without their knowledge or input.

Other than that - some combination of "Athenian" + "Voting" perhaps, where a certain set of users can vote? Random sounds a bit scary.

[jackg]

Maybe start with the annoying message once people reach member status or even full member. With a hint that if they don’t know who to add, then dot add anyone.

DT seems to be overvalued and seems to be made a rank in itself for some reason...

[OgNasty]

I've always thought the trust system worked pretty well.  Even in cases where users have positive trust that I don't agree with, it seemed to take community opinion over a "top-down" approach.  However, I'm always open to seeing improvements.

Every month, pick ~30 random users from the set of users who meet certain fairly strict criteria.

It sounds like the benefit of this approach would be more DT1 users, but also a rotating approach that could help point out users with poor networks who could use adjusting.  Over time, I could see this being great, but would likely involve a more hands on approach from the users being selected and random is a bit scary.

Why not expand the current DT1 system?  It sounds like most of the complaints about it are that people aren't included.  Why not take a look at how expanding the current DT1 members to 30 would effect the system and perhaps moving to a random rotating approach if that goes well?

[Anduck]

I’m surprised Sirius isn’t dt1, afaik he’s still holding the domain for this site.

He's not holding the domain.

If a DT1 member trusts someone for whatever reason, I think the DT1 member is fully justified in adding the member to his trust list, thereby making that member a DT2 member.

This is how it should be, but in practice hasn't been like that for years.

It shouldn't matter in the least if the newly-anointed DT2 member is active or leaves a lot of feedback or anything else.  The point is that the DT2 member can be trusted.  He's not required to be a scam buster or to use his DT status for anything if he doesn't want to.  Hell, I don't recognize half the DT2 members on that list, but I wouldn't argue that they should be removed just because they're inactive.

I agree. Sadly, DT1 members do not agree with us. I've talked recently with few DT1 members (who I could contact, several of them are unresponsive or inactive) and how they describe DT is very far from your view.

not required to be a scam buster

I think DT is more for placing valid scammer tags and the only sure avenu to becoming DT is to become a scambuster and leave a lot of valid negative feedback.
DT positive is very conservative because you are basically staking your reputation to vouch for someone, or risking the reputation of your judgment for not much gain. Moreso adding someone to DT2 because then you are staking your judgment on them not only not to scam, but on their judgment of others not to scam. It's just much easier and safer not to, and their isn't much upside.

I disagree. DT should be a list of people who are unlikely to scam others. Nothing else. It should not be used as some "ultimately trusted people" -list, as that's as real as unicorns. There have been plenty of scammers in DT. And I can tell you that scammers know their way in to that list, no matter how curated or small you want to keep it. So DT, if it has to exist, should merely act as a list of people unlikely to scam others. People should in general form their own trust networks, so I find the whole DT list largely unneeded.

Negatives are 99.9% provable fact and positives are a judgement call, the way feedback is used.

Untrue. Negatives are largely based on pure opinions and incompetence. E.g. look at my trust rating received from SaltySpitoon (a DT1 member). He rated me red, because I did a vendor bid on my auction ~3 years ago. I had not stated that the auction was without reserve, as it was not without reserve. (E.g. the U.S. law states that auctions are by default with reserve and all no reserve is a special rule.) So I did this vendor bid, which is a sort of a concealed reserve price. SaltySpitoon is lying that I didn't honor the auction. I didn't back then know about the Bitcointalk auction standard, which is quite vague and not specified anywhere, but is something one just has to know. I didn't know back then that vendor bids are not cool in here. They're very commonly done in my country. In any case, vendor bids are not scamming, unethical or anything like that. So this rating by SaltySpitoon is wrecking my trust score and is listed in "trusted rating" page for all the people who trust DT, and it's based on SaltySpitoon's incompetent opinion. It's unfair, unjust and shows incredibly bad judgement, but there's nothing anyone can do about it except theymos. Nobody will go against a DT1 member publicly, Believe me, cliques and what not exist around DT.

Scambusters and negative tags are very beneficial to the community to warn others and stop bad actors while positives are only good for what?, saving some traders some escrow fees and slight complexity in trading?
Positives don't really help a person much while negatives have a massive impact.

Agree. And when negatives are used poorly, like they are... There have been various cases where DT members are misusing or abusing the system to boost their ego or whatever. In even more cases, the negative and positive ratings are given without proper basis. E.g. Vod rated me because I told him privately that I don't specifically trust him. Ego got hurt and shows.

@eddie, I don’t like that sort of system as we have now.

I don’t think scam busters should be on dt merely for being scam busters and it’s why quite a few have gone on to scam and also why mdayonliner got negative trust too.
A system in which verifiable trades get chives positive trust in return, is as I see it, a much better system. Call me old fashioned, I like people to only give trust when they’ve had something at stake and it’s paid off.

This also highlights one of the issues about DT: people have very different views about what it should be. And people in DT positions have different views too, and use them according to their own view. This makes it a bad thing.

DT list should be removed completely. Right now it's acting as a "elite", "trusted people" list while that's only the perception of it. Reality may be totally different. There have been very nasty scammers on the DT list, even on DT1. It took a long time until the worst ones got removed. There are still untrustworthy people who do their shit only occasionally, so they are not removed. My point is that it's not a list I would suggest trusting. It has objectively not worked very well at protecting big scams from happening. It has and is only working to protect newbies from getting scammed in some ridiculous way. So it should be used for that purpose only. Best would be to remove the DT completely -- it would encourage people to make their own lists just like trust networks are supposed to work. Of course there's some steep curve in the beginning, but isn't there always?

Also, DT1's who have added people to DT2 may have been completely inactive for years, so who will remove them? Curating is not working properly and it's in the hands of a couple people. Not good.

I would guess many of the current DT-members were much less than 4 years old when they were added, which would mean getting on DT is harder now than it was 4 years ago. Of course it doesn't help that so many new users are spammers, but the number of decent posters went up too when Bitcoin gained popularity.

I asked to be included in the DT list. I've been here for years, and around the scene for years. I've also traded a lot, and so on. I've also acted as "a judge" on various cases as I've moderated e.g. Bitcoin IRC channels for years.

I received mainly three kinds of responses from DT members:
1) Adding anyone who has a negative from some other DT is not possible without insane drama. This is where DT has evolved. There are tons of drama always around and obviously some people (DT1) get the heat.
2) I don't post enough positive or negative feedbacks. (one of this came from someone who is a lot less active regarding feedbacks than me, so I wonder this a little...)
3) I've rated positively someone they don't like. (and the person I have rated positively has dozens of positive ratings from various other people too, also from people on DT)

Some possibilities which have come to my mind:

Force custom lists

Display an annoying message instead of a trust score next to every post until the person sets a custom list with the assistance of the set initial trust page.

Pros:
 - No remnant of top-down decision-making remains.
Cons:
 - Newbies will often choose poorly, especially since the suggested list is possibly manipulable.
 - I've been thinking that I might want to enable trust for non-users, and that'd be impossible with this.

I think this is the best option. They will anyway rely on using DT (with the current system) and this is a step forward where there's no real DT, but still something (individual) that acts as such. Also new users would need to pick the users themselves, so they'd acknowledge it at that very point that they have chosen those "trusted" users themselves, and nobody did it for them.

If you have specific suggestions for alterations to the current DT1 list, then make a topic about it. I think that the system is structurally flawed as it is now, though.

Here's mine: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5081293.new#new

[Cashi]

Improving the DT system is a good idea, but we should consider the consequences if we remove someone from DT or make a weak system changing every month. Don't forget about the bounty cheaters which will see a chance of getting their account rid of a red tag. When Lauda was removed from DT2 many tagged accounts were untagged. Imagine if some more DT2 are removed, the spam would go to moon  
Adding more members to DT1 or DT2 is inevitable in my opinion. There are so many accounts not tagged yet for bounty abuse although the proof is obvious. The few DT members tagging them are too busy and it's just unfair if most of the recently reported cheaters can still escape. I provided a proof of hacked or sold accounts abusing bounties and they are still not tagged.
There are so many reports not reviewed. If all the cheaters will be tagged the spam would be reduced a lot.

Therefore I would increase the DT1 members up to 30 by adding trustworthy DT2 members. This will keep the existing ratings intact and fix some issues we have right now (not enough DT to tag already reported cheaters).

Edit:
@OP, the link to dserrano5 is wrong, correct version is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17768

[r1s2g3]

Best way is to use your own brain and judgement while dealing with others and you do not need any custom list/forum supplied list/ or more people in DT.

[Findingnemo]

Lot of cheaters aren't getting tagged due to unavailability of DT members on this forum and only few members were constantly finding cheaters and negging them so we need to add more DT members for the system to work with full potential I believe.

[coinlocket$]

I think the idea of the current DT system is working in a good way the only problem is that is the that the list of Dt1 is stopped at 5 years ago and the list dt2 is stopped a couple of years ago.
Maybe you just have to expand this list and add a couple of trusted people to the list dt1 (without shady past) and a dozen active people to the list dt2.
Also, you could add to the list dt2 some people who "are taking care of the forum" and who punish the people who are abusing the forum and not only people who managing the marketplace.
Or creating a new DT2 rank with any name and doing this kind of work, it's unpleasant to see that a large part of people here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.new#new and here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4695194.msg42378900#msg42378900 are not tagged for abusing since a year, since almost nobody of DT cares about them.
Finally, I do not believe that a dynamic dt1 is a great idea, in the end it could be a goot trust network, but for the first months we would have trustworth people with negative rep for revenge and vice versa scammers with positive rep.

[Vod]

Default Trust has done a pretty good job of holding scammers at bay.

I believe without the system, the amount of scams would be several times higher.

I'm OK with pushing custom lists (I don't use them) but removing the trust system completely would be a mistake of epic proportions.  People would run ponzis, promote paypal, bid on their own auctions,  post fake facts, etc. etc. 

Personally I have tagged over 1,300! untrustworthy people.  My actions have led to the majority of scammers thinking twice about pulling a common scam.

[yahoo62278]

I think the idea of the current DT system is working in a good way the only problem is that is the that the list of Dt1 is stopped at 5 years ago and the list dt2 is stopped a couple of years ago.
Maybe you just have to expand this list and add a couple of trusted people to the list dt1 (without shady past) and a dozen active people to the list dt2.
Also, you could add to the list dt2 some people who "are taking care of the forum" and who punish the people who are abusing the forum and not only people who managing the marketplace.
Or creating a new DT2 rank with any name and doing this kind of work, it's unpleasant to see that a large part of people here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.new#new and here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4695194.msg42378900#msg42378900 are not tagged for abusing since a year, since almost nobody of DT cares about them.
Finally, I do not believe that a dynamic dt1 is a great idea, in the end it could be a goot trust network, but for the first months we would have trustworth people with negative rep for revenge and vice versa scammers with positive rep.

The current dt2 list did not stop 2 years ago. Marlboroza and the pharmacist were recently added within the last 6 months.

Regardless, it does feel like a good ol boys club at times and more people need to be added to dt1 so the current lists can increase and more users have a valuable opinion as far as who is or who isnt a scammer.

Right now with all the scam icos going around, you can never have enough eyes protecting the community.

Doesnt matter what is done, some people will be pissed off while some will obviously be pleased.

There will always be users who just do not get along. Only thing I would like to see is people consider the drama train that will arise when deciding on whom to add to either list. Choose users who can have an unbiased opinion and help the forum vs assholes who will go on a power trip.

There really is no reason to create a new list every month or whatnot. The users that made dt1 have earned that prestige. They have proven they belong on the list.

I do agree however that inactives or scammers should be immediately removed.

[Quickseller]

I tried using my own custom trust list, but was fairly quick to find problems with trust ratings within my trust network, and frequently had to research why  certain people whose ratings I didn't agree with was in my trust network, and excluding many who either gave many ratings I disagreed with, or who included many people who I didn't want in my trust network.

I suspect the root cause reason why so many do not use custom trust lists is because so many people are bad at creating maintaining a custom list, and cannot be bothered to keep it updated. It only takes a small number of people whose ratings/list is 'trusted' that maintains a bad trust list to cause problems in the entire trust network.

I want to think about this topic some more....more to come on this subject

[The Cryptovator]

I don't like how the current system is working at all.

Trust system is working fine, but DT list should refresh. I have made a thread about inactive DT member list, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5025480.msg45474059#msg45474059 . There are lots if DT inactive. Especially on DT1. So if DT1 is inactive who will add new DT2? And I think there is more people's who deserve DT member's. I think list has not updated from long time. I believe list need to refresh. More DT could be add due many are inactive.

I'm not a fan of voting,

You can get suggestion from existing DT member's if you don't trust on voting. However current trust system should be continue due to prevent scam from forum. Just need improve with time. I think it's possible upgrade few members from DT2 to DT1 so DT1 could expand thier trust network.

[jackg]

I sense cryptocvators idea is essentially what theymos has already  shunned (making dt3 viewable like 1 and 2 are).

If it goes ahead, a lot of moderation of inaccurate forefinger ,Igbo be required as dt3 members might have given some negs where a dt2 would have given a neutral for example.

[eddie13]

I don't like how the current system is working at all.

I don't mind the current DT system however centralized it may be because I trust and have great respect for the vast majority of those currently enlisted.
I think they check eachother pretty well also when their are disagreements everyone comes together to make sense of the situation, even non-DT have a voice, and usually everyone steps away with continuing mutual respect. Everyone misunderstands or is wrong sometimes.

But, if you really don't like it for being a "top down" structure I think you could scrap the appointed positions of power part and rather use an algorithm to calculate the weight of everyones sent feedback to be summed to each accounts final trust score.

Something like..
[(Activity/1000)Rank](Trust/20) = Weight of left feedback

Variables for "Rank" could be something like Legendary=1 Hero=0.75 Sr.=0.5 Full=0.25 with all lower ranks zero and "Trust" would be the feedback leavers current trust score. If the solution is negative (negative summed trust) weight=0
(Abuse resistance)

For a 900 activity hero with a trust score of 50 leaving a positive trust [(900/1000)0.75](50/20)=1.6875 round to 2 decimals would give the feedback receiver +1.69 to their trust score.

For a (very trusted old member) legendary with 2000 activity and 200 trust score giving a positive [(2000/1000)1](200/20)= 20 would leave +20

So the more established and trusted a member is, the harder their trust hits (more weight), and you would have to be atleast a full member, with net positive trust, for your feedback to carry any weight at all.  

A persons Trust score would be the sum of all received feedback. Negative left feedback would just be negative in the sum and subtract from the final score with equal weight.

In the risked BTC column you could give the option to enter a modifier from 0 to 1 so a person could reduce the weight of their feedback if they want.
He could type in "1.25 #0.5" so the legendary example above could leave only +10, or type "1.25 #0.1" to leave only +2. (for 1.25 risked BTC example)
[(Activity/1000)Rank](Trust/20)(user modifier)

So a person could tone down the weight of the feedback they leave if they feel it is appropriate so they wouldn't have to be so conservative with every feedback they leave which is the case now. Maybe leave it continually editable for later changes.

If you wanted to keep the Time part you could add [(Activity/1000)Rank](Trust/20)(Time)(user modifier) where each month equals 0.1 maxing out in 10 months as 1 so it would grow throughout 10 months to its full strength.

I'm no mathematician and I just chose my numbers to try to get a reasonably ranged result.

I don't much like to make suggestions because I am just a nobody and not a genius but I think a system like this would be cool to see.
I don't think this should be done but rather should be considered and brainstormed upon unless their are serious flaws in my logic I am not seeing.

I would probably just leave it alone because it is a lot better than nothing. Maybe an algorithmic system like this could be implemented in parallel with the current system at first so the old system doesn't have to get completely scrapped while working out the bugs and adjusting to the new system.

I don't consider this "a suggestion for alteration to the current DT1 list" so won't make an OP about it.

[Vod]

Variables for "Rank" could be something like Legendary=1 Hero=0.75 Sr.=0.5 Full=0.25 with all lower ranks zero and "Trust" would be the feedback leavers current trust score. If the solution is negative (negative summed trust) weight=0
(Abuse resistance)

This forum stands out by not tying a person's trustworthiness to how often they post.

[coinlocket$]

~
I do agree however that inactives or scammers should be immediately removed.

In the end, I agree with what you say and I don't think we need to change the DT system (but they can do, is not a big deal to me if it will be a better version of this one), we just need to add few DT1 and some DT2 with them.
I think that with only adding very active people it can change the forum in a better place.

[Anduck]

Any updates regarding this?

[LoyceV]

Any updates regarding this?

There's this suggestion:

With the introduction of reporting badges on the horizon we should consider introducing badges for other things. Most importantly I think looking at the possibly of rewarding a badge for setting a custom trust list. The trust system is wholeheartedly broken and theymos has even said himself its not working as intended.  We are not sure of the positive effects that badges bring at the moment. But this is why reporting statistics should be released before the implementation of the badges and then after an initial period (3 months) we should look to see if this has increased the number of reports being made.

I think it's a very good idea! A shiny badge under a name will be something others notice, and if clicking it brings you to your trust settings, more users can be encouraged to make their own list.
(I haven't made my own list yet, because I want to be able to see trust the way most users see it)

[suchmoon]

Or we could airdrop worthless tokens Howeycoins for creating custom lists. 90% of the forum would do it overnight.

[Anduck]

I think it's a very good idea! A shiny badge under a name will be something others notice, and if clicking it brings you to your trust settings, more users can be encouraged to make their own list.
(I haven't made my own list yet, because I want to be able to see trust the way most users see it)

I agree. The link should lead to that 'suggest' page, so the custom list would really get made.

Or we could airdrop worthless tokens Howeycoins for creating custom lists. 90% of the forum would do it overnight.

Actually not even that bad idea, as I am sure it would work quite nicely. But it's a bit silly... no real need for new shitcoins & it would cause loads of problems for the future to have such a bag to carry.

I think that force is the best way. Just remove DT and people have no other choice than to use the 'suggest' page to make their trust list. A "personal DT" would be much better, because users would know that the list is formed by their own choices, by their hand-picked users.

[coinlocket$]

I'm starting to have a big number of feedback sent, does it have a limit in numbers?

[Vod]

I'm starting to have a big number of feedback sent, does it have a limit in numbers?

You have just over 500 neg trust sent.   The highest person is The Pharmacist, with almost 2,500.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

You have just over 500 neg trust sent.   The highest person is The Pharmacist, with almost 2,500.

So I guess that makes me the alpha negger on bitcointalk--that actually surprises me, because this is a statistic that I've never even thought about before.  If you'd asked me to guess who'd given out the most negs, I would have said either you or Lauda.  Interesting.

If I'm not mistaken, I think most of the red trust I've given out has been for account selling or buying, so this just goes to show how bad that particular problem is on the forum.

[LoyceV]

I'm starting to have a big number of feedback sent, does it have a limit in numbers?

If I remember correctly, there used to be problems loading the trust page if it was too big. That's why the trust page no longer shows the status of the tagged/tagging user.

[Quickseller]

I'm starting to have a big number of feedback sent, does it have a limit in numbers?

If I remember correctly, there used to be problems loading the trust page if it was too big. That's why the trust page no longer shows the status of the tagged/tagging user.

This was because the forum server needed to calculate everyone’s trust score who appeared on someone’s trust page. This could not be done periodically globally because everyone’s trust settings, including their trust list is potentially different.

I don’t necessarily think it is a good thing to have sent a lot of negative ratings. Above all, it is important to have accurate ratings, including those that meet the definition of the description of the type of rating you are giving and that third parties are not in disagreement with. Another useful metric would include the number of people that openly dispute your ratings, although it should be acknowledged that some people will simply be unreasonable and will refuse to accept their behavior indicates they are either a scammer or will try to scam in the future.

Also, uncovering a difficult to detect scam that has gone unnoticed by others is better than tagging many low hanging fruits and/or tagging after checking others’ work.

[raveron]

I am totally schoked. I have never imagine that a forum can have such a fucked up trust system.

Maybe because it is so big and going for such a long time?

Maybe because corruption and image is more important?

This is bad, nice for sharing this info! You have some merit from me

[coinlocket$]

I'm starting to think that we need an additional system that works in parallel with the actual system, I've reported over 600 accounts for abusing from newbies to legendary, only 20 has been tagged from DT members 2 DT members.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4695194.msg42378900#msg42378900

[raveron]

I'm starting to think that we need an additional system that works in parallel with the actual system, I've reported over 600 accounts for abusing from newbies to legendary, only 20 has been tagged from DT members 2 DT members.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4695194.msg42378900#msg42378900

Not really, I think what we should do is stop tagging for usefull reasons. That might be a first.

Second, having a DT system based on activity and trading

[Vod]

I am totally schoked. I have never imagine that a forum can have such a fucked up trust system.

It worked well in your case - prevented you from scamming an innocent user.

[raveron]

I am totally schoked. I have never imagine that a forum can have such a fucked up trust system.

It worked well in your case - prevented you from scamming an innocent user.

Yes, I am totally agree with you. You're at this moment a reason why I think the system is wrong.

[Vod]

I am totally schoked. I have never imagine that a forum can have such a fucked up trust system.

It worked well in your case - prevented you from scamming an innocent user.

Yes, I am totally agree with you. You're at this moment a reason why I think the system is wrong.

Ok, so you would prefer a system where new users could not be prevented from scamming?

Do you think that would help the forum community, or just the scammers?

[raveron]

I am totally schoked. I have never imagine that a forum can have such a fucked up trust system.

It worked well in your case - prevented you from scamming an innocent user.

Yes, I am totally agree with you. You're at this moment a reason why I think the system is wrong.

Ok, so you would prefer a system where new users could not be prevented from scamming?

Do you think that would help the forum community, or just the scammers?

Oh no, obviously not. God fuck the scammers, but where is the case of scamming with a collateral? A collateral may not be valid for you, it might be valid to someone else.

I just saw you red trusted someone willing to have as Collateral CRGO coin.

This is so stupid and wrong, I have no idea if you are a person that understands crypto or someone with a lot of free time

[Vod]

Oh no, obviously not. God fuck the scammers, but where is the case of scamming with a collateral? A collateral may not be valid for you, it might be valid to someone else.

My definition of collateral is pretty clear.

Collateral is something that can easily be resold to cover the loan value plus interest

[The Sceptical Chymist]

A collateral may not be valid for you, it might be valid to someone else.

Here's the problem:  it would be a scammer's tactic to ask for a loan with a shitcoin or token that he knows can't be sold and therefore is worthless for him to hold.  In your lending thread, it looked exactly like you were just waiting for a sucker to take the bait.  People were explaining to you that your token might be unsalable, and you basically kept responding "yeah well, everyone can make up their own mind". 

This forum is rife with examples of loan scamming where people put up either worthless collateral or collateral that they're simultaneously trying to sell.  That's why you got tagged.  However, I'm not calling you a scammer outright, just pointing out that there were huge red flags in your lending thread.  Maybe you have too much faith in the future of GRVS, and maybe you intended to just pay back the loan honestly.  Who knows?  Vod called it as he saw it, and while it might seem pretty strict of him to tag you, there isn't much you can do about it unless you work out an arrangement with him. 

Vod is reasonable, but you have to understand that he's seen so many scams and attempted scams here that his position is to take no chances, especially with relative newbies.

[mikeywith]

there is a good chance that you are an honest person and you were actually going to repay the loan, but honestly using a shitcoin that is not even on CMC as a collateral is as bad as going to the pawn shop with your underwear as a collateral, while you may think it worth a lot, to most people it's useless and have 0 value. and given the amount of scammers around, the smallest thing you do puts you on the scammers side. so before you try to buy/sell/lend/load you need to think 10 times before you become a scam suspect.

[raveron]

Hmm very interesting point of view..I can say that at that moment I had faith in grvs, for now I still have as things are changing for good again. Scammers scammers scammers, this doesn't help, this makes people to scam. You have to stop saying this around all time because this is what creates. Whatsoever, you can look at logs, I have closed the thread before receiving any kind of trust feedback from the people, it was not my intent at all to care at least about scaming. I can't take serious someone like the description licking boobs, even if I am a very big fan of family guy. More or less, many things as this has to be changed soon enough

[suchmoon]

Scammers scammers scammers, this doesn't help, this makes people to scam.

It doesn't work that way. Look at Vod's received feedback:


Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

Has it made him scam?

[mikeywith]

I can't take serious someone like the description licking boobs

who doesn't like licking boobs ? i sometimes's stop and stare at that profile picture, it actually has a tongue moving. .

anyway if you plan to trade again on the forum, just be extra careful, offer a valid collateral if you need a loan.

Good luck.

[raveron]

@suchmoon, that's different, it's a mental problem there.

@mikeywith I don't like boobs, I like nipples as fact lol

[fonship]

Well, this is a feature which majority don't care and understand. I think very less attention given to this topic.
Even after years, I don't understand how this trust system works.
I think we need more transparency in this.

[S_Therapist]

Even after years, I don't understand how this trust system works.
I think we need more transparency in this.

I have tried my best to explain both the trust system and DT. Hope you will find it worthy. Feel free to ask question. I will happily try to help you understanding the system.
[Explained] How Trust Score is calculated
and
[Explained] How DT system works

[fonship]

I went through both link, simple and very good explanation. Thank you for that.
Now I don't understand why despite that I have 4 ratings, they are not showing up on my profile?

[TryNinja]

I went through both link, simple and very good explanation. Thank you for that.
Now I don't understand why despite that I have 4 ratings, they are not showing up on my profile?

Because they are coming from untrusted users (from the default trust point of view). Read the second thread again (How DT system works).

[S_Therapist]

I went through both link, simple and very good explanation. Thank you for that.
Now I don't understand why despite that I have 4 ratings, they are not showing up on my profile?

TryNinja has already said that they are from untrusted networks. Now, if you go to your trust setting and include the name of those persons from whom you got feedback, you can see those in your profile. No one else will see as long as they will also be included in their trust list. For example, if I add sparkweb in my trust list, I will see the feedback. I have just added sparkweb in my trust list for showing you.

[fonship]

Now this makes sense. Got it now.
So until I get trust from some very big level it won't be visible enough.

[S_Therapist]

Now this makes sense. Got it now.
So until I get trust from some very big level it won't be visible enough.

There is nothing called big level although we have some members called DT. If everyone uses a custom trust list, the DT member will not be big level anymore. If you have included someone in your trust list, you will be able to see his feedback to other's profile or in your profile.
I think you should again read the two threads earlier I suggested and try to understand how it works.

[fonship]

Yeah I have read it.
Problem is majority users are not aware of how to use trust system and merit system
So mostly for trust, its big level what i was referring to is having trust from one DT person, bcoz that will be visible to everyone.
I think forum moderators can see how many poeple have custom trust setting, i assumption is that they should be very very few.

May be BT should start some area to educate or some weekly email to users with these details, or whoever sign-up few should get somehow to use this platform effectively.

[S_Therapist]

Yeah I have read it.
Problem is majority users are not aware of how to use trust system and merit system
So mostly for trust, its big level what i was referring to is having trust from one DT person, bcoz that will be visible to everyone.
I think forum moderators can see how many poeple have custom trust setting, i assumption is that they should be very very few.

May be BT should start some area to educate or some weekly email to users with these details, or whoever sign-up few should get somehow to use this platform effectively.

It's true that custom trust list is used by only a few people. I personally am not using custom list because I trust most of the DT people and I want to see feedback from them by default.
Theymos is promoting/encouraging people to use custom trust list by the forum ads slot. Check the 60th number text in factoid slots.

[yahoo62278]

Now this makes sense. Got it now.
So until I get trust from some very big level it won't be visible enough.

Trust score may not increase when you get feedbacks from users who are not DT, but it is still good to receive positive feedbacks from those users. Users read your feedbacks(Most should anyways) and get a sense of how reliable you are to make trades with, hire, or trust period.

Another thing, when you leave feedback on others try to make sure to include a reference link so that the action or transaction has merit and cannot be viewed as a fake feedback. Hopefully others that leave you feedback do the same.

[LoyceV]

I think forum moderators can see how many poeple have custom trust setting, i assumption is that they should be very very few.

Trust is public, you can see it too:

https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz

I made it so that'll update every Saturday at 02:52 UTC. -> is "trusts", and -/> is "excludes". Only people with at least 1 post are included. If someone has never touched their trust list, then their trust in DefaultTrust is not shown.

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list:

Code:

theymos
allinvain
HostFat
teff
LZ
Elwar
satamusic
btchris
Bimmerhead
Stephen Gornick
Peter Todd
fabianhjr
midnightmagic
ColdHardMetal
Chuck
dishwara
chmod755
Jason
ryepdx
Luke-Jr
dooglus
Astro
Raize
keystroke
Nekrobios
phantomcircuit
Miner-TE
spacediver
GCInc.
Sahtor
defaced
RchGrav
Maged
SteveB
trilogy456
layer1gfx
Inaba
server
mithrandi
algaidaman
Grix
edd
Raoul Duke
luv2drnkbr
topynate
someguy123
Bit_Happy
tabsa
SgtSpike
romeorickl64
wariner
gmaxwell
gsan
Kluge
Josh
zapeta
Mikers
BookofNick
jspielberg
enmaku
MiningBuddy
wangxinxi
organofcorti
bitpop
twmz
justusranvier
rb1205
Peter Lambert
RyNinDaCleM
Dracov
Mousepotato
jwzguy
Soros Shorts
tonto
Carnth
TECSHARE
Caesium
IIOII
drrussellshane
Acejam
stellan0r
Chefnet
redcomet
emersonlogan62
tysat
desired_username
iCEBREAKER
Dacm4n
dserrano5
kokojie
random_cat
rupy
haploid23
Micon
ixne
Cluster2k
phantastisch
OgNasty
Jessi
RockDJ
2weiX
CanaryInTheMine
Oldminer
SebastianJu
Rudementry
Stemby
cc5alive
AndyRossy
str4wm4n
Bind
jamesg
whirlpool
-ck
Haembi
SyRenity
newguy05
hypersire
Xer0
bbit
xaxistech
Ente
Zodiac1233
R2Pleasent
themusicgod1
Schleicher
SLVR4ME
ullikume
Lord F(r)og
Ratman2050
gwillen
chiliftw
malevolent
2GOOD
zefir
Elokane
dego
yxt
EpicFail
qwk
the joint
Vrs
goozman96
CoinBoerse.com
Garr255
pankkake
bluetowel
oxi
hendo420
leevancleef
BTC-Joe
smoothie
preparation
koopa
GreekBitcoin
naypalm
ziomik
prodigits7
fydel
julz
BCwinning
jdebunt
X68N
manfred87
blizzen
forexmasterja
Korbman
paraipan
goxed
BitcoinEXpress
rafsoaken
Lincoln6Echo
mameise
dlasher
Northwave
jaebird
cocodapuf
loglow
John (John K.)
andy3
ercolinux
Unacceptable
Michail1
Olly_K
Anduck
mc_lovin
rihannafully
ssateneth
MsBitcoin
Immuzikation
abracadabra
THCGroup
pekv2
FCTaiChi
fronti
taserz
epicrate
Nigmar
juhakall
skilo
wallet.dat
Maidak
crzr
kano
dscotese
SgtMoth
ry0t
maxmint
dree12
imsaguy
Wobberdk
rdponticelli
Tomatocage
arij
Mushoz
DrG
enlightened
wknight
SaltySpitoon
canton
phantitox
exxe
securo
misternoodle
ineededausername
camerali
Donrulezz
runeks
Gyom
Khanduras
BadBear
FreeTrade
fsb4000
Eveofwar
Turbor
escialsped
bitcoinbear
juggalodarkclow
ocminer
Forobitcoins
manic
DiThi
silverfuture
Scott J
Tinua
Come-from-Beyond
jddebug
rudrigorc2
yo-blin
mdude77
Vagnavs
scintill
Seal
mrbubl3s
Hexadecibel
agibby5
wolverine.ks
Frizz23
Bees Brothers
dpb
xqus
augustocroppo
nbtcminer
Rubberduckie
vual
pidobir
nlovric
darkmule
rini17
mprep
ldrgn
01BTC10
Cranky4u
af_newbie
UnderGod
Blazr
xeerog
LiteBit
Lohoris
Liam W
LouReed
MrTeal
mda
testconpastas2
silverbox
saddambitcoin
ildubbioso
BCB
starsoccer9
tcp_rst
PsychoticBoy
Dabs
Varyg
DiamondCardz
Foxpup
opentoe
ShireSilver
Voogru
Dalkore
jwplayer0
caffeinewriter
thatbluedude
RooKIED
investr
Winterfrost
zinjo
fhh
whiskers75
b0nfire
elgreco
Xenophon
miaviator
gweedo
Lethos
Darkwin
nimda
diego1000
NereuFajardo
bitcats
KIDC
piit79
Xian01
xuemike
davecoin
doothewop
cantor
Entropy-uc
Choroid Plexus
hm
burnside
IveBeenBit
Newar
adamas
Brassguy
Kaleidoscope
bitcoinplaza
Akka
Bitcoines
macromode
BitcoinNational
bixcoin
lassdas
DannyHamilton
420
strello
Crankerer
LoweryCBS
AmDD
Bjork
CaptChadd
Muis
merve10495
Kivela
fbastage
sedric398
nemercry
Gyrsur
opodark
Capture
scalar33
Prozak
MichaelBliss
Joori
bitdaniel
Darktongue
austinsimonson
nameface
Ebo
awoland
dyingdreams
btcstore
2501
001sonkit
Carlton Banks
philipma1957
biodieselchris
sLide.
jborkl
nlovlyn
Uuno
bigtimespaghetti
alka66
eestimees
InfiniTcell
FundsMoney
ekremboz1
QuantumKiwi
Tak
MonocleMan
ApeXz
Ginsley
SRG
Benson Samuel
yrtrnc
warhawk187
BTCMiners.net
SLok
ZuonKing
buysellbitcoin
sangaman
bestbiz9
PatMan
CoinHoarder
sacko
wh00per
HenryRomp
koelen3
polrpaul
amigaman
jjoshp1
omgitsmehehe
kuusj98
Siturb
Lab_Rat
OpenYourEyes
pheaonix
pkarc
KWH
kralle
eid
Emergenz
mnightwaffle
int03h
lewisrafael40
kelpy
Amitabh S
mirny
QuestionAuthority
Mikej0h
whistle11
rme
DebitMe
soy
GIANNAT
alexeysh77
maco
Atruk
lunarboy
tel
BG4
subvolatil
nexus6
bcboilermaker
Razick
Chefin
Digikeys
Seccour
MoneypakTrader.com
BTC4Amazon
escrow.ms
umairsaleem010
Bicknellski
madpoet
Walter Rothbard
cptmooseinc
nexusakachus
uhnonamiss
Kempelen
Foxcool
sunk818
joinmicah
Trading
shadowhax
tom1
icey
mobile
Cyrus
Evolyn
brooksby
frank0929
cjanthony
ruggedman_dan
agath
algorista
EndTheFed321
velacreations
bennybong
ProfMac
sublime5447
n00b2013
MagicBit15
mwax321
louong
hephaist0s
Rawted
100x
dreamliner
A1ex
dobetter
DBG
Parazyd
Xqisit
Wolf0
Coiner.de
gates
notserp
flound1129
gogxmagog
ny2cafuse
frga13
mmitech
BitcoinLady
Cognitive
monkeynuts
PRab
AU
eorituz
ccl
Mevius
e4xit
sharknutzz
shawshankinmate37927
erpalum
chalbersma
elaramus
ohac
durnkenWiz
InvalidSnack
Nemo1024
22naru
badgerman
hingleMC
galbros
bitspill
temor
JedWafu
MWNinja
portice
FullLife
Felipeo
marto74
bitstrange
Fabrizio89
dipsy
Welsh
shibaji
zif33rs
cchan
BitCoinNutJob
d5000
grnbrg
Omen1855
reneg
Wardrick
BKM
ahmed_bodi
mycketbra
pivavar
Sword Smith
wizzardTim
kcud_dab
mrbrt
oldbushie
hanti
Abdussamad
petrosc
Bytas
Bitcoin BEAR
No 1
LeChatNoir
fran2k
needmoney
EddyGameta
MadAlpha
dupeddonk
xan_The_Dragon
GodFatherTiZ
GPK260
lazlopanaflex
Neupleu
spark
dogie
nottm28
Bitdonator
CoinFeeder
finlof
NitrogenSports
freedomno1
dchapes
W-M
MikeMark
SamGriffin
elitenoob
shitaifan2013
Wolf Rainer
ebloo
thomashrev89
realrover
chicobr
Mogumodz
pitchbend
dnaleor
mariusg
marcetin
ivanlabrie
Chainsaw
Gimpeline
o3u
culexevilman
CharlyKa
rottenchris
danosphere
Pokokohua!
spunkybd
Luckybit
Exocyst
gateway
elchorizo
RDMINER
The 4ner
gavrilo
likl3sfuhjh
WildFire.ca
Sy
traderman
kirch
M!tch
Silfax
Azure
pisciolatzu
sterob
ThunderSheep
Operatr
gadman2
furuknap
Snail2
stevendevlin
rouf553
digititus
klotzenhotz
bitterdog
bitcoinminer42
The_Catman
Foofighter
orymh
Frost
datguyian
zulover
Alesfatalis
Ikinoki
Pitchotto
rammy2k2
Vigil
Nucivar
bitwarrior
Nightowlace
mr_john
xrobau
CheapYoutubeHits
BigBitz
Rub3n
Swimmer63
Sophokles
jimhsu
Prelude
bluudz
mjb
binaryFate
guitarplinker
SilentSonicBoom
serge79
nst6563
Spendulus
iban
lerelerele
Guido
stfnnn
lubah
dacman61
tutorialevideo
alexius89
axorb
reb0rn21
8fold
oda.krell
lyno
Cheshyr
defcon23
radiumsoup
ReCat
androz
nairb131
shrimpdigger
TMAN
Searing
StarbucksShop
EnJoyThis
trader19
mullick
webchris
klabaki
zackie
theemstra
tom04137
BRADLEYPLOOF
MikeMike
statdude
pascal257
dzyk
yayayo
shakezula
Gws24
Macno
Lauda
crazyivan
klrgoten
Passion_ltc
helloge
BitcoinBoss
mmmd
Blood Ninja
AbraxasCcs
ASIC-8Tile
Mr. Jinx
escalicha
kwilliams
Hiroaki
Dragooon
TomUnderSea
mickeld
chanberg
Polyatomic
Slipage
stslimited
Mad_Max
tk1337
rascal777
td services
kimosan
Quartx
wayner
hypnos2k
nomad13666
Farthom
DrahogErusiel
awgilyas
s_stylez
BitcoinDroid
Vl4dim1r
btcmcdizzle
Vega
pr0d1gy
wavefan
Kouye
Genom
cyberhacker
Dunkelheit667
candidakefyr
AbiTxGroup
E.Sam
Micky25
Wed
Spjer
n00bwastaken
laris2
Pale Phoenix
S110RE
DM90
shapemaker
Zich
TookDk
Badman0316
jlsminingcorp
monocolor
goose20
cptdome1
Cryptocables
dmcdad
chnchapters
paul3
maxpower
Chris_Sabian
itphobia
americandesi
xibeijan
Tursk
krysta11
PeBo
peonminer
BitcoinCharlie
dreamhouse
JoeChmoe
xjack
Equate
stevenlam
Deathwing
terrahash
KS
Vlad2Vlad
Rannasha
colinistheman
AZIZ1977
torepia
Adriano
btcee
BitcoinBarrel
Mitchell
derekleong75
Gregc1131
fisheater
itod
qwep
Biomech
FiiNALiZE
MsCollec
juicejoyce
nightyj
bitwhizz
OnkelPaul
BeepBeep2
Datto
Entz
zerocode20
macros
altsay
CreationLayer
badalien
tinus42
MExpat911
phm
jonoiv
leepsteer00
ibuybtc
judasiscariot
helipotte
mrfakename
aurel57
oneinamillion
bitdominion
pablotextoris
superresistant
Orngrimm
elasticband
gjpminingco
sylpalma
CryptoBullion
Jamievs
granathus
Quark
Verlaufen
nkocevar
halfawake
copyfile
Min€r
Ruggito
harlemx
coinmaster222
Rigon
guitar82
BTCat
Olegcho
tecscott
Thrash
LimLims
cosacipwr
Tywill
Rakessh
padalin
vlees
BitcoinBaBa
gdassori
Mota
ghibly79
vizique
slashopt
zackclark70
jimmijames73
ahmedbodi
bitzox
Fuserleer
adub
mrtchipr
Xaxer
Breen2543
AndrewHenson
cardcomm
djcoin
El Extranjero
klintay
arnbrd
~Money~
Weppel
boewie
OmarG
Taborresen
HabbyGab
digit
Yzord
bardi.harborow
stex2009
sacskate
zakorus
snatchmonkey
edn247
piecinitup
Anmol_Verma
natey1
chickenfried12
hack_
Ratio
n00ber
demontn
LottoPool
Beastlymac
STT
feohdale
mishax1
btcapparel
play
cryptocyprus
KyrosKrane
dj6230
Blazr2
MarkAz
bitdigger2013
krusin
JustAnotherBitcoinFan
_rusty_
jacktarli
gh2k
cardedon
Damnsammit
tinyteapot
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[Anduck]

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

[OgNasty]

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

That list also includes people who have Default Trust included on their trust lists.  It is actually a good sign and shows that thousands of people are augmenting DT with their own alterations as advised.  I'd disagree with your interpretation and say this is better than I'd thought.  I wonder what sort of growth is happening with users augmenting their lists?

[marlboroza]

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

DT should be removed.

This is one of the reasons why DT should be removed completely.

The problem is that DT exists.

Just remove DT

~

Can you exclude accounts who have DT in their trust network and make a list of accounts with only custom list? Just to see how many people have removed DT from the list.


How can I see someone's trust list without including them to my trust list?

[S_Therapist]

How can I see someone's trust list without including them to my trust list?

It's not possible. Don't know what can you get by digging here- https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz (I never tried)
I got a same kinda thread from 2015 and theymos has shared this link only. Here you go- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1175364.0

[Anduck]

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

That list also includes people who have Default Trust included on their trust lists.  It is actually a good sign and shows that thousands of people are augmenting DT with their own alterations as advised.  I'd disagree with your interpretation and say this is better than I'd thought.  I wonder what sort of growth is happening with users augmenting their lists?

I have DT in my trust list, and I use custom trust list, and I am heavily against DT.

Fact is that a really really small portion of forum users have a custom trust list. Quite small amount of users know about the trust system in the first place, but even when that is so, 4000 users having customized their trust list means that users aware of the trust system are clearly not customizing their trust lists.

The heaviest reason to include DT in the customized list is that there's no real reason to remove it as it was there by default. Another reason is that people want to have some sort of overview about what the view is for most of the users.

People should use custom lists and they should be encouraged and incentivized to do so. There should not be a structure like DT as it skews the whole trust system. Of course people who get something out of it tend to not find any reasons to object it, that's largely human nature. It's exactly the same thing as can be seen in the politics, but maybe by acknowledging it we can be better than that?

DT list is an anomaly in the trust system/network. Such should not exist, because eventually it builds up to be like any other top-down hierarchy as the time passes.

I'm happy to see that the one (also being the only one) who can truly change this DT thing doesn't like how it works either.

I am against DT and I also have DT on my custom trust list. It appears that you don't get why it is so. Maybe I or others can help you out? Feel free to PM me.

[cryptohunter]

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list

This is very bad, worse then I thought. DT needs to go, so people can finally start using the trust system as it's intended. Either completely remove DT and start healing trust system slowly, or dilute DT which encourages people to make their own lists.

That list also includes people who have Default Trust included on their trust lists.  It is actually a good sign and shows that thousands of people are augmenting DT with their own alterations as advised.  I'd disagree with your interpretation and say this is better than I'd thought.  I wonder what sort of growth is happening with users augmenting their lists?

I have DT in my trust list, and I use custom trust list, and I am heavily against DT.

Fact is that a really really small portion of forum users have a custom trust list. Quite small amount of users know about the trust system in the first place, but even when that is so, 4000 users having customized their trust list means that users aware of the trust system are clearly not customizing their trust lists.

The heaviest reason to include DT in the customized list is that there's no real reason to remove it as it was there by default. Another reason is that people want to have some sort of overview about what the view is for most of the users.

People should use custom lists and they should be encouraged and incentivized to do so. There should not be a structure like DT as it skews the whole trust system. Of course people who get something out of it tend to not find any reasons to object it, that's largely human nature. It's exactly the same thing as can be seen in the politics, but maybe by acknowledging it we can be better than that?

DT list is an anomaly in the trust system/network. Such should not exist, because eventually it builds up to be like any other top-down hierarchy as the time passes.

I'm happy to see that the one (also being the only one) who can truly change this DT thing doesn't like how it works either.

The problem with presenting such FACTS in meta is that you are sadly relating this information to

1. people who are already fully aware of this
2. People who are deriving power/advantage from the systems operating in this way.

The REAL members who are likely in their ANN threads supporting their projects or on the btc discussion boards likely do not know about meta. They will only find out about it when they get hacked or something.

DT and MERIT need either to be tightened up and not left open and completely subjective to the point of your like or dislike of LEMONS being responsible for you losing your ability to PAID2POST  or trade.  Or they need to be abolished.

Need strict clear criteria for both systems. Punishment/removal from position for not meeting that criteria.

Enforcing this criteria would not even be hard. Just produce the criteria and these system controllers will follow it or they will be booted out. No more voting your mates in to collude with you.  There is no colluding. There is a mandate. There is criteria set. Follow it or you are gone.

Why will they follow the mandate and criteria set? because they like the power. I have no issue with authority or people having power so long as that power is fairly applied to all members in a manner we all understand. Let them have some power. I mean they are likely to have been bullied and dominated in RL. So on the internets let them have some power for a change. I think everyone should sample different ends of the spectrum in all things.

You will then see red trust you won't have to read to see if they like LEMONS. You will know they have demonstrated behaviour that REALLY will mean they are likely to scam you. Of course if they were stealing LEMONS then that is something you need to watch out for.

[Anduck]

That list also includes people who have Default Trust included on their trust lists.

There's no data about that. I parsed the list.

https://anduck.net/files/bct_trustlists.txt shows some additional data, gathered from the https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz file.

[OgNasty]

I am against DT and I also have DT on my custom trust list.

Yes, you have become one of DT's biggest critics despite not having an understanding of why it exists, yet you still include it on your list.    That means you are a hypocrite & DT has value even to it's biggest critics.  I don't think you're making the point you're trying to make.

[LoyceV]

Can you exclude accounts who have DT in their trust network and make a list of accounts with only custom list? Just to see how many people have removed DT from the list.

I can't, the data dump doesn't show "DefaultTrust", only individual usernames.

How can I see someone's trust list without including them to my trust list?

See https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz, or for the uncompressed version from 3 days ago: https://pastebin.com/3CiX1T9p

It may be interesting to see the total number of entries: 22,605. That means just a few entries per user on average, which is far from enough to replace the DT-system.

People should use custom lists and they should be encouraged and incentivized to do so.

Encourage them: drop a link to Trust settings once in a while

[Lauda]

I count 3890 users with a custom trust list:

That's rather surprisingly low. Thanks for parsing that, I've always wondered how many people used custom lists!

[marlboroza]

How can I see someone's trust list without including them to my trust list?

See https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz, or for the uncompressed version from 3 days ago: https://pastebin.com/3CiX1T9p

Thanks.

It may be interesting to see the total number of entries: 22,605. That means just a few entries per user on average, which is far from enough to replace the DT-system.

I completely agree. Some members are excluding accounts who negatively tagged them(I checked few accounts) and I noticed one member has removed DT from their network and excluded 3 DT members which one of them -ve them and two "neutralized" them with "begging for merit" comment. Eh, it all goes to statistics.

[Anduck]

I am against DT and I also have DT on my custom trust list.

Yes, you have become one of DT's biggest critics despite not having an understanding of why it exists, yet you still include it on your list.    That means you are a hypocrite & DT has value even to it's biggest critics.  I don't think you're making the point you're trying to make.

I think your understanding of why DT exists differs from the original intention. Care to tell us why you think DT was made in the first place? Do you have any idea why theymos made DT and now says he doesn't like at all how it works?

I am not saying that DT is worthless. I am saying that it should be gone now. Obviously a top-down structure (once again) proves to not function as intended. Also, there are a high amount of critics of DT in the forums and most of them do not care about Meta section.

I include DT, because it's such a strong anomaly that the whole trust system builds around it while that anomaly exists. This is why people who fully acknowledge the possibility to make a fully custom trust list, often do not do it.

I also trust almost everyone in the DT1, so it's convenient for me to add DefaultTrust instead of writing all those users there myself. I can exclude DT1 users I do not trust.

Now just figure out what means that DT is a strong anomaly in the trust system.

People should use custom lists and they should be encouraged and incentivized to do so.

Encourage them: drop a link to Trust settings once in a while

That's not how a systematic problem gets fixed.

How can I see someone's trust list without including them to my trust list?

See https://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz, or for the uncompressed version from 3 days ago: https://pastebin.com/3CiX1T9p

For the parsed format, check out https://anduck.net/files/bct_trustlists.txt. Also shows who includes/excludes who.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I include DT, because it's such a strong anomaly that the whole trust system builds around it while that anomaly exists. This is why people who fully acknowledge the possibility to make a fully custom trust list, often do not do it.

I sort of understand that statement, maybe 70% of it.  The other 30% makes my head spin.

Contrary to what a lot of other members think, I don't get off on being on DT2 and in fact it's a pain in the ass half the time.  But since bitcointalk doesn't even moderate scammers, there needs to be some mechanism through which unwitting members can avoid being scammed and bad behavior can be punished, so to speak. 

I completely agree that the trust system is screwed up, and I think I've said that for as long as I've been here.  If Theymos were to ditch the default trust system here tomorrow, and my feedback no longer carried as much weight, I'd be fine with that--as long as there was something in place to warn people about scammers, account dealers, identity thieves, trust abuse, extortion, etc.  If you asked me how many DT2 members exist I couldn't tell you, but I know it's a lot.  But there are only a handful of them active in handing out negs when they think someone deserves it.  The rest are just members that some DT1 peeps trust.  I'm assuming your gripe is because of Vod's feedback, and he's one of the active ones.

So, if we eliminate the whole DT system right now without having a function that the active DT1/DT2 members serve, what would happen?  All the cockroaches would have a field day, that's what.  I hear lots of gripes but no suggestions about alternatives, and I'll admit I can't think of a different system that would be better either.  I used to like the Scammer Tag thing that was in place when I was a lurker, but I do believe Theymos won't be going back to that. 

[Anduck]

Contrary to what a lot of other members think, I don't get off on being on DT2 and in fact it's a pain in the ass half the time.  But since bitcointalk doesn't even moderate scammers, there needs to be some mechanism through which unwitting members can avoid being scammed and bad behavior can be punished, so to speak. 

Diluting the DT list (=adding more DT users) would reduce that PITA.

I'm assuming your gripe is because of Vod's feedback, and he's one of the active ones.

Vod threatened to red-rate me unless I changed my rating. Threatening to abuse DT position, and then abusing it, has nothing to do with one's activity. DT are currently free to abuse as long as they keep it mild and "legit", and sadly some DT members take advantage of that possibility. Be a friend of 100, bully 1, and those 101 will be sticking together and ignore the wrongdoing (or find some unreasonable excuse). It's exactly the same as in politics. Nobody would care if that structure was not pushed on people by default. Such a structure should not exist in trust system, as trust system should not have any means of top-down authority whatsoever. This sort of mixture of trust network and moderation, that the current trust system sadly is, is not excelling at being a trust system or functional moderation.

So, if we eliminate the whole DT system right now without having a function that the active DT1/DT2 members serve, what would happen?  All the cockroaches would have a field day, that's what.  I hear lots of gripes but no suggestions about alternatives, and I'll admit I can't think of a different system that would be better either.  I used to like the Scammer Tag thing that was in place when I was a lurker, but I do believe Theymos won't be going back to that. 

I think the "Force custom lists" idea by theymos is the best step forward. I think that a less dramatic change would be to dilute DT, add a lot more DT1 members, and see what happens.

[S_Therapist]

I think the "Force custom lists" idea by theymos is the best step forward. I think that a less dramatic change would be to dilute DT, add a lot more DT1 members, and see what happens.

A forced custom list will solve the problem you are talking about but what will happen to the newbies? It has been mentioned by theymos too.
What DT exactly is doing? Trying to save people like us a.k.a people who are not familiar with the forum. The majority of the persons will be harmed by either way if no DT is there, IMO. I guess account aged 1 year don't know how the trust system works, in some cases, even some Legendary too. How newbie will save them then?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Diluting the DT list (=adding more DT users) would reduce that PITA.

Please explain to my pea brain how this would be so.  Also, how would this affect the ability of DT members to warn others?  Also also, I thought you wanted to get rid of the DT system altogether.

Vod threatened

Yes, I know you've said this ad nauseam across multiple threads.  Sorry I brought it up.

I think the "Force custom lists" idea by theymos is the best step forward. I think that a less dramatic change would be to dilute DT, add a lot more DT1 members, and see what happens.

I did see that thread, and I'm not sure how forcing newbies to create a trust list would work, and they're the ones most likely to fall for scams around here, IMO.  As to adding more DT1 members--did I miss how those would be chosen?  Theymos would have to pick them, since he doesn't like the voting strategy, so it just seems like the DT system would end up being more of a clusterfuck than it already is, unless the DT1 members had to keep very strict trust lists.  Diluting the DT2 pool seems like it would end up with more people with more power, more headaches, more internecine squabbles, more bitching about wrongly-left feedback, and more chaos.

Or have I got my math wrong again?

[Anduck]

I think the "Force custom lists" idea by theymos is the best step forward. I think that a less dramatic change would be to dilute DT, add a lot more DT1 members, and see what happens.

A forced custom list will solve the problem you are talking about but what will happen to the newbies? It has been mentioned by theymos too.
What DT exactly is doing? Trying to save people like us a.k.a people who are not familiar with the forum. The majority of the persons will be harmed by either way if no DT is there, IMO. I guess account aged 1 year don't know how the trust system works, in some cases, even some Legendary too. How newbie will save them then?

There have been scammers in DT. It amplifies their scamming power a lot when almost everyone sees them as "trusted" only because someone chose that e.g. a long time ago. Account sales happen too, which make this even worse. DT accounts are traded constantly, so how correct is that perceived trust given by DT then? Also, as I said before, scumbags will find their way on to any curated or however small list, if it gives them a position they want. It's how it works. We've seen this happening on DT, too.

One solution, the one I mentioned in that quote, is to dilute DT list heavily. Also the sole purpose of it should be defined strictly. If such a default list structure exists, it should solely be a list of people unlikely to scam others, it should be nothing more, nothing less. This would then encourage people to make their own custom trust lists while also securing newbies from getting scammed.

It's not for the forum staff / theymos to tell people who to trust. Giving an option to opt-out of that doesn't change this reality where DT has this power.

[S_Therapist]

There have been scammers in DT. It amplifies their scamming power a lot when almost everyone sees them as "trusted" only because someone chose that e.g. a long time ago. Account sales happen too, which make this even worse. DT accounts are traded constantly, so how correct is that perceived trust given by DT then? Also, as I said before, scumbags will find their way on to any curated or however small list, if it gives them a position they want. It's how it works. We've seen this happening on DT, too.

You can call me a newbie as I have joined the forum earlier on October 4, 2018. But I didn't see what you have mentioned, maybe I have missed those since the forum is bigger than we think. But I didn't miss the chance to read all the thread related to Gleb Gamow/ YuTü.Co.in/ Phinnaeus Gage and I know suchmoon has paid for the account too just to prevent any kinda scam issue. I have mentioned it here because I read the history with a lot of interest but I didn't get anywhere what you have mentioned.
Why don't you just post everything with a dedicated thread in reputation? I believe that will be worthy for sure. Everyone will see what is happening here in the name of DT. You should post the proof.

Edit-

Go read the Reputation and Scam accusations boards. Dive deep into the history. Feel free to compose a list of all the DT'ers who scammed and also try to find out when they were removed from DT if at all.

Would really appreciate having some links. Since you are an old member here, it will be pretty easier for you to link up.

[Anduck]

Diluting the DT list (=adding more DT users) would reduce that PITA.

Please explain to my pea brain how this would be so.  Also, how would this affect the ability of DT members to warn others?  Also also, I thought you wanted to get rid of the DT system altogether.

If there were more DT members, the chances that someone else had already tagged a scammer increase, etc. I assume that the "workload" for DT'ers is the source for the pain in your ass.
Whoever trusts DT would still see your warnings as "trusted feedback".
I'd prefer ditching DT completely. That doesn't mean that I couldn't suggest changes to DT.

Vod threatened

Yes, I know you've said this ad nauseam across multiple threads.  Sorry I brought it up.

It's an example of what sort of "mild, unpunishable" wrongdoings are done by DT members. I can find out many more. Often these things are discussed to the point where it's only frustrating to everyone, so maybe this fresh experiment is enough to get the point? I could bring up cases regarding or brought up by e.g. Deadterra, Lauda, mexxer-2, Lutpin, OgNasty, escrow.ms, etc. etc., but it would only end up like discussions regarding those cases ended before: in frustration, no changes (or small changes after insane amount of arguing), and wasted time.

I think the "Force custom lists" idea by theymos is the best step forward. I think that a less dramatic change would be to dilute DT, add a lot more DT1 members, and see what happens.

I did see that thread, and I'm not sure how forcing newbies to create a trust list would work, and they're the ones most likely to fall for scams around here, IMO.  As to adding more DT1 members--did I miss how those would be chosen?  Theymos would have to pick them, since he doesn't like the voting strategy, so it just seems like the DT system would end up being more of a clusterfuck than it already is, unless the DT1 members had to keep very strict trust lists.  Diluting the DT2 pool seems like it would end up with more people with more power, more headaches, more internecine squabbles, more bitching about wrongly-left feedback, and more chaos.

Or have I got my math wrong again?

It could go as you describe, but I doubt it. I'd argue that more decentralization in the DT would end up in more balanced outcome. More people with more power would mean less power per single DT user. The current amount of power that DT'ers carry is way too much compared to what is needed to simply warn newbies about scammers.

Why don't you just post everything with a dedicated thread in reputation? I believe that will be worthy for sure. Everyone will see what is happening here in the name of DT. You should post the proof.

Go read the Reputation and Scam accusations boards. Dive deep into the history. Feel free to compose a list of all the DT'ers who scammed and also try to find out when they were removed from DT if at all.

Would really appreciate having some links. Since you are an old member here, it will be pretty easier for you to link up.

For example check out https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1995886.0, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1306301.0 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1359877.0 where a DT user scammed. There are loads and loads of cases there.

It's not hard to find DT abuse (not just scams) in there. It just takes time to really go through this stuff. There are only like 60-70 pages in Reputation where this material mostly resides. Scam accusations board is the other one.

[LoyceMobile]

One solution, the one I mentioned in that quote, is to dilute DT list heavily. Also the sole purpose of it should be defined strictly. If such a default list structure exists, it should solely be a list of people unlikely to scam others, it should be nothing more, nothing less.

I disagree: I want people with good judgement on DT. Not being a scammer isn't enough. Example: I don't think cryptohunter is a scammer, but he has terrible judgement.

[cryptohunter]

One solution, the one I mentioned in that quote, is to dilute DT list heavily. Also the sole purpose of it should be defined strictly. If such a default list structure exists, it should solely be a list of people unlikely to scam others, it should be nothing more, nothing less.

I disagree: I want people with good judgement on DT. Not being a scammer isn't enough. Example: I don't think cryptohunter is a scammer, but he had terrible judgement.

Bring evidence now ................... I don't think you will.  Where is my judgement terrible that makes me untrustworthy?

Where as I can demonstrate that you do not have the capacity or critical reasoning required to be a merit source. I mean how can anyone be left to judge others posts who is observably suffering from a broken mind?  Just from some of the statements you and other merit sources make you can tell that they are pretty much low functioning. If you want me to bring examples just ask and I will provide.

Actually my entire post history from.. uncovering, fighting, damaging huge huge scams and fighting for fairer distribution (even though I would have gained much more from leaving it as it was) of huge projects  only to be shouted down by a bunch of idiots who all later start complaining about how it went down and suggesting things I had presented to start with (bunch of fools).

 I help the very most weak where you and the pharmacist were trying to bully around and get banned and I know full well all of my actions will cost me probably red trust and merit withholding and could not give one shit because it just backs up my case that these systems needs to be tightened up  or destroyed.  Helping people with nothing become millionaires by helping to push forward only the projects that I see as filling in the missing pieces of the end to end fully decentralised or trustless arena we all want to see. Being asked to hold large amounts of coins for projects because they can trust me not to dump them like the dev did previously.

Honestly I would ask you to bring forth one person on the entire board with more relevant credentials for global mod or dt. Fairness and honesty and robustness against caving against pressure against other system controllers are key here.

 Not that I ask for any positions here because I am certain that where there is still free speech even one person can make a huge difference without being given positions of power.

If you can present one person with better proven judgement  over these years... and as hard as all the scammers and loud mouth turn coats have scoured my closet for skeletons they find nothing. I have been told many times projects have financed people searching for anything to discredit me as their only hope for stopping my relentless slamming of their scams. They came up with NOTHING to demonstrate I committed any wrong doing.

 I don't even just mean the gang in meta i mean every scammer and scam project who have talked trash about me but never produced ANY evidence of any wrong doing at all.  All you will find from the start is helping the weak, criticising huge scams and scammy distributional methods, pointing out and highlighting the biggest scam promoters and enablers, giving everyone fair chance of find the most profitable projects ever (that were not scams) freely and before they took off. Fighting for increased fairness and freedom for all. Yeah terrible judgement.

You have done nothing like any of that you dumb fool.. you pull stats and also try to bully the weak from what I can see... that is it and get paid to spam it all over the place..and you criticise my judgement? You are a poster boy for why the merit system is broken I could not ask for a better example. I mean you have done nothing of note, your logic is a fail over and over and you have the most earned merit on this board.

Anyway sorry to go off topic but since I am being named and accused of having judgement that makes me untrustworthy with no evidence I reserve the right to ask it is provided or it is observable he is talking nonsense.

I can not wait for this bad judgement that would preclude me from a trust position (I never asked for dt or merit source ever anyway).

[Vod]

Vod threatened to red-rate me unless I changed my rating.

I red rated you because you scammed.   

[Anduck]

Vod threatened to red-rate me unless I changed my rating.

I red rated you because you scammed.    

Don't lie.

I decided what you did wasn't untrustworthy to me

After this, you started power tripping when I provoked you. You illogically "misunderstood" me to reason your further wrongdoings and power tripping. Stop being dishonest.

Here's the real reason for you red-rating me:

I have made it neutral.  You have made yours negative.  Once of us will have to change it.  :/

Which means that you gave me the option to 1) remove my rating to you or 2) be red-rated.  I did not remove the rating, so you proceeded with option 2).

Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3869593.msg37486761#msg37486761


It's also bamboozling how you still haven't shown any acknowledgement of your illogical misunderstanding, even though it has been opened up to you various times.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I do think we could use more DT1 and, by extension, DT2 members, but we shouldn't be adding people just because we need more people. We should be adding people who would be an asset to the system, regardless of your feelings about the system in general.

If such a default list structure exists, it should solely be a list of people unlikely to scam others, it should be nothing more, nothing less.

Surely that's what green trust is for? Green trust means you are unlikely to scam others. Being unlikely to scam isn't enough to warrant a place on DT if all your trust ratings are nonsense.


I understand you want DT either diluted, changed or removed, but if you are going to derail every discussion about it back on to your personal beef with Vod, then nothing is going to change.

[Vod]

Vod threatened to red-rate me unless I changed my rating.

I red rated you because you scammed.    

Don't lie.

Blah blah blah.  You scammed an auction. I left you negative trust.

You sure are a crybaby hypocrite.  

I understand you want DT either diluted, changed or removed, but if you are going to derail every discussion about it back on to your personal beef with Vod, then nothing is going to change.

He seems to be oblivious to this.  He doesn't want DT gone - he wants his red trust removed.

[Anduck]

This is so totally offtopic, but I feel like I need to respond anyway. This Vod user just doesn't stop his harassing.

Blah blah blah.  You scammed an auction. I left you negative trust.

I've never scammed anyone. I've honored all my auctions and other business perfectly. Off you go, liar!

[suchmoon]

Diluting the DT list (=adding more DT users) would reduce that PITA.

You keep saying that and you even "applied" to DT yourself but in the last year or so you posted around a dozen trust ratings, 2 (perhaps 2.5) of which are retaliatory and others have no reference links. That's a horrible contribution to the trust system and you should not be anywhere near DT nor have any say in how it should be changed.

[Vod]

I've never scammed anyone. I've honored all my auctions and other business perfectly. Off you go, liar!

I'm not going to let a scammer call me a liar, bozo.   

[Anduck]

Diluting the DT list (=adding more DT users) would reduce that PITA.

You keep saying that and you even "applied" to DT yourself but in the last year or so you posted around a dozen trust ratings, 2 (perhaps 2.5) of which are retaliatory and others have no reference links. That's a horrible contribution to the trust system and you should not be anywhere near DT nor have any say in how it should be changed.

If I was Satoshi, would you then listen to these ideas I present?

Look at the first post of this thread. See what makes this DT list and what the DT users do.
DT should not be a group that requires whatever active spam/scambusting you're looking for.

[suchmoon]

If I was Satoshi, would you then listen to these ideas I present?

Look at the first post of this thread. See what makes this DT list and what the DT users do.
DT should not be a group that requires whatever active spam/scambusting you're looking for.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm talking about (1) abuse/retaliatory feedback and (2) feedback predominantly without references. This is useless and harmful to the trust system. Nothing to do with satoshi or scambusting.

If you got nothing to contribute to the system then don't. But if you're making a mockery of it - I think that disqualifies your opinion on the subject, just like a bounty shitposter isn't qualified to provide input on post quality and merits.

[Anduck]

If I was Satoshi, would you then listen to these ideas I present?

Look at the first post of this thread. See what makes this DT list and what the DT users do.
DT should not be a group that requires whatever active spam/scambusting you're looking for.

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm talking about (1) abuse/retaliatory feedback and (2) feedback predominantly without references. This is useless and harmful to the trust system. Nothing to do with satoshi or scambusting.

If you got nothing to contribute to the system then don't. But if you're making a mockery of it - I think that disqualifies your opinion on the subject, just like a bounty shitposter isn't qualified to provide input on post quality and merits.

I'm not putting words in your mouth? Wtf. Is that a default line you open up with when you want to make an insulting reply?

My ratings are not sent because of received feedback itself. Hence not retaliatory, I've told you this already, but you keep calling them retaliatory.
Reference is not required. Many times the reasons for a rating are complex and not referenceable.

Trust system is used in so many ways. Another reason why DT is skewing it up, as the same applies to DT.

[cryptohunter]

Diluting the DT list (=adding more DT users) would reduce that PITA.

You keep saying that and you even "applied" to DT yourself but in the last year or so you posted around a dozen trust ratings, 2 (perhaps 2.5) of which are retaliatory and others have no reference links. That's a horrible contribution to the trust system and you should not be anywhere near DT nor have any say in how it should be changed.

Who says? you? LOL


I would say ANY person fighting against the systems being improved to be fairer, more reliable and producing valuable data for analysis are the people that should be kept away from trust positions in the first place.

What possible motive can anyone have for fighting against making the systems more robust and reliable and transparent.

Now if there were strict criteria for DT to follow it none of these arguments would be happening. First time they don't abide with the criteria and mandate boom they are gone. Of course they would need to be legends or heros and have a long history of fair behaviour and trustworthy behaviour. Any grey area squabbles would be too risky to start handing out red because unless you actually got scammed or have a clear case to provide that demonstrates they are untrustworthy then it will not be worth losing your DT over.

There should not be persons saying or having opinions on how it should be changed or not changed. There should be proposals that are weighed on their merit. There needs to be systems proposed and then debate on whether and why they are an improvement and if they can be coded into the design of the forum.

"Many times the reasons for a rating are complex and not referenceable" -suchmoon anduck

Give an example??


"just like a bounty shitposter isn't qualified to provide input on post quality and merits" -such moon

100% agree with most of that and that ANYONE GETTING PAID2POST should not be allowed  into a position of power controlling PAID2POST through merit and trust.  That is a good move for a start.  That takes out most of the sig spammers in meta here.

I always love it when you pop up to help confirm the we need to debate ways to improve the systems you and others seem to control right now. Stick around suchmoon your contributions are sorely missed in meta lately. Bring the others back here too that are poster boys for the fact the systems of control need criteria and a mandate or be abolished.

[suchmoon]

I'm not putting words in your mouth? Wtf. Is that a default line you open up with when you want to make an insulting reply?

whatever active spam/scambusting you're looking for.

Where did I say that I'm looking for that? Rhetorical question. I didn't say that.

My ratings are not sent because of received feedback itself. Hence not retaliatory, I've told you this already, but you keep calling them retaliatory.

LOL yeah these ratings completely accidentally just happened after you got into fights with these users.

Reference is not required. Many times the reasons for a rating are complex and not referenceable.

Trust system is used in so many ways. Another reason why DT is skewing up it, as the same applies to DT.

I'm not saying you can't use the trust system that way. Knock yourself out. Anything short of massive spam is allowed. I'm saying you shouldn't be in DT and your opinion on the subject is quite useless due to your abuse and bias. I don't expect you to see it that way, so carry on.

"Many times the reasons for a rating are complex and not referenceable" -suchmoon

Give an example??

Are you drunk? Edit: LOL, don't answer that. I just realized who I replied to. Another moron unable to figure out who said what, easy to get confused.

[Anduck]

Reference is not required. Many times the reasons for a rating are complex and not referenceable.

Trust system is used in so many ways. Another reason why DT is skewing up it, as the same applies to DT.

I'm not saying you can't use the trust system that way. Knock yourself out. Anything short of massive spam is allowed. I'm saying you shouldn't be in DT and your opinion on the subject is quite useless due to your abuse and bias. I don't expect you to see it that way, so carry on.

See the trust system guidelines here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211858.msg2221664#msg2221664

I'm not putting words in your mouth? Wtf. Is that a default line you open up with when you want to make an insulting reply?

whatever active spam/scambusting you're looking for.

Where did I say that I'm looking for that? Rhetorical question. I didn't say that.

To me, it sounds like you're implying that DT'ers need to have loads of rating activity / spam/scambusting. So you brought up how I have only "around a dozen trust ratings" and therefore not qualified. Why did you mention my "around a dozen" ratings when you talked about how I am not qualified, if you don't mean that more ratings activity is needed for DT member?

If you want to answer, you can answer me via PM. We should stop derailing this thread.

[cryptohunter]

I'm not putting words in your mouth? Wtf. Is that a default line you open up with when you want to make an insulting reply?

whatever active spam/scambusting you're looking for.

Where did I say that I'm looking for that? Rhetorical question. I didn't say that.

My ratings are not sent because of received feedback itself. Hence not retaliatory, I've told you this already, but you keep calling them retaliatory.

LOL yeah these ratings completely accidentally just happened after you got into fights with these users.

Reference is not required. Many times the reasons for a rating are complex and not referenceable.

Trust system is used in so many ways. Another reason why DT is skewing up it, as the same applies to DT.

I'm not saying you can't use the trust system that way. Knock yourself out. Anything short of massive spam is allowed. I'm saying you shouldn't be in DT and your opinion on the subject is quite useless due to your abuse and bias. I don't expect you to see it that way, so carry on.

"Many times the reasons for a rating are complex and not referenceable" -suchmoon

Give an example??

Are you drunk? Edit: LOL, don't answer that. I just realized who I replied to. Another moron unable to figure out who said what, easy to get confused.

LOL although you can not see the perfect irony in that last statement. I find it quite hilarious. Thank you again for all the smiles you bring me.


Typical suchmoon tactic.

1. yes I was skimming this thread whilst writing out another reply to another thread. So all you need to say is

I did not say that it was anduck have a look.

I will say okay yes. I agree it was not you. I take back that you said it. There you go.... answered later in post scroll down.


NOW though.

You seem to have read my entire post but like suchmoon always does is just ignore the central and most important point that he does not want to answer.

So I will ask him again so there can be no missing it.


WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT THE SYSTEMS OF MERIT AND TRUST GIVEN A MANDATE AND CRITERIA SO THAT THEY PROVIDE RELIABLE, VALUABLE DATA THAT IS FAIRLY APPLIED TO ALL.

WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT TO SEE THESE SYSTEMS IMPROVED?


Keep in mind your post regarding good poster is meaningless without clear definition.


Now feel free to accept my public apology that I misread that other quote as yours . I still think that is wrong... if you can not say exactly why they got red trust you must not leave red trust especially in such a subjective system. So I am in agreement on that part.

After you have done that answer my central point in uppercase above.  I am guessing you will NOT.

Anduck stop being such a pussy as soon as suchmoon confronts you. This is not derailing the topic. These are examples of the DT system in action. It should all be discussed here not on PM.  Well that is if you believe you are telling the truth and that is it relevant to the discussion in the manner you are presenting it does. Of course alone they are only individual experiences but if true can demonstrate that improvements can and must be made.

If you think you are right. Then no need to slink away to PM. If you are right you are right. Simple as that.  Transparent open discussion is key to this board.

Derailing how?? how much more relevant  can prime examples concerning the DT system be  to this thread? we are discussing if we can improve the system right?

Suchmoon has no real power on an open discussion board because nobody does ..only the truth has power. If you get red trust, if you get no merits if you get banned. It does not really matter because you still exist and so does the truth so it can never stop being presented either by yourself or by close friends who can join who will insist on the truth being heard.

Now I agree being bogged down in to much anecdotal individual experience is not giving the full picture if you are presenting something you believe is true and both relevant to the topic then no need to slink off to PM just because suchmoon turns up. We need to find the issues and devise a solution to these issues.

[OgNasty]

Diluting the DT list (=adding more DT users) would reduce that PITA.

You keep saying that and you even "applied" to DT yourself but in the last year or so you posted around a dozen trust ratings, 2 (perhaps 2.5) of which are retaliatory and others have no reference links. That's a horrible contribution to the trust system and you should not be anywhere near DT nor have any say in how it should be changed.

If I was Satoshi, would you then listen to these ideas I present?

Look at the first post of this thread. See what makes this DT list and what the DT users do.
DT should not be a group that requires whatever active spam/scambusting you're looking for.

We listen to your ideas now. However, you could be the Queen of Sheba and we’d still say they were misguided.

[Anduck]

We listen to your ideas now. However, you could be the Queen of Sheba and we’d still say they were misguided.

My ideas largely align with theymos' ideas. (e.g. here). Main thing being that DT needs to change or go. How am I misguided?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Because theymos wants to change the system to improve it for everyone. You want to change the system so you are no longer red-tagged.

[OgNasty]

We listen to your ideas now. However, you could be the Queen of Sheba and we’d still say they were misguided.

My ideas largely align with theymos' ideas. (e.g. here). Main thing being that DT needs to change or go. How am I misguided?

You think anyone who is trustworthy should be in default trust. That shows you don’t even understand the system. Trustworthy people have a high trust rating, while those with GOOD JUDGEMENT IN THEIR RATINGS should be in the default trust network. You’ve been shown to have questionable views in regards to auctions and also poor judgement in giving feedback. You’re now lashing out at the system because you refuse to see those 2 truths regardless of how many people take the time to try to point it out to you, further demonstrating your reason for exclusion and the functionality of the current system.

[Anduck]

You think anyone who is trustworthy should be in default trust. That shows you don’t even understand the system. Trustworthy people have a high trust rating, while those with GOOD JUDGEMENT IN THEIR RATINGS should be in the default trust network. You’ve been shown to have questionable views in regards to auctions and also poor judgement in giving feedback. You’re now lashing out at the system because you refuse to see those 2 truths regardless of how many people take the time to try to point it out to you, further demonstrating your reason for exclusion and the functionality of the current system.

My view of what DT should be has nothing to do with my understanding of how it works currently. Also I am not "lashing out at the system" as you describe. I have given out perfectly reasonable feedbacks. Feel free to PM if you feel that some feedback I've sent is unjust, we can talk about it. And that "questionable views in regards to auctions" -- well, vendor bidding really is a common thing in various auctions around the world. I guess you can call it "questionable", but for some reason it still remains to be an acceptable thing in various auction standards. Not in Bitcointalk auction standard, obviously.

[OgNasty]

I have given out perfectly reasonable feedbacks.

SaltySpitoon   2018-12-24   If you do business with SaltySpitoon, be careful. Expect problems especially if anything disputable or surprising happens. This person uses twisted logical argumentation when it suits him. Believes prejudice in the face of facts. Finds reasoning to justify whatever activity, regardless of resulting low level of reasonableness, coherence, fairness or even correctness. Applies double standards. Portrays himself as fair and conscientious -- don't fall for that. I've not done business with SaltySpitoon.

I think the situation with Salty could have been handled more reasonably.

Not in Bitcointalk auction standard, obviously.

Then why are you trying to upend the entire trust network to suit what you believe DT should be as a result of you not adhering to the Bitcointalk auction standard as you understand it?

[Anduck]

I have given out perfectly reasonable feedbacks.

SaltySpitoon   2018-12-24   If you do business with SaltySpitoon, be careful. Expect problems especially if anything disputable or surprising happens. This person uses twisted logical argumentation when it suits him. Believes prejudice in the face of facts. Finds reasoning to justify whatever activity, regardless of resulting low level of reasonableness, coherence, fairness or even correctness. Applies double standards. Portrays himself as fair and conscientious -- don't fall for that. I've not done business with SaltySpitoon.

I think the situation with Salty could have been handled more reasonably.

Possibly.

Not in Bitcointalk auction standard, obviously.

Then why are you trying to upend the entire trust network to suit what you believe DT should be as a result of you not adhering to the Bitcointalk auction standard as you understand it?

These two things are unrelated. The feedbacks I've received merely increased my motivation to get BCT trust system improved. DT people have way too much power. Also FWIW, I've been against DT-including trust system since it was implemented, just not very vocal about it. (See #bitcoin-otc logs.)

About that auction issue,
I learned about Bitcointalk auction standard regarding vendor bids in that auction. Back then, ~3 years ago, I did not know that vendor bids are not cool here. The bitcointalk auction standard is vague and not even described anywhere. I've held countless auctions since, with no complaints. Now two DT'ers are stepping in to rate me for that vendor bid (at least publicly they state that as the reason). Do you see that as reasonable and justified? "Warning! Trade with extreme caution!"

[suchmoon]

I learned about Bitcointalk auction standard regarding vendor bids in that auction. Back then, ~3 years ago, I did not know that vendor bids are not cool here. The bitcointalk auction standard is vague and not even described anywhere. I've held countless auctions since, with no complaints. Now two DT'ers are stepping in to rate me for that vendor bid (at least publicly they state that as the reason). Do you see that as reasonable and justified? "Warning! Trade with extreme caution!"

Your trust rating has not so much to do with your self-bidding but rather with you being stubbornly defiant about it. Any reasonable person would have said "shit, I didn't realize that, sorry" and moved on whereas you're never wrong. This speaks to your poor ability to handle disputes or even minor disagreements. You're lucky to get away with two red trusts (so far).

Here we are derailing the thread again . How about you stick to your cockamamie ideas of destroying DT, those are easier to ignore.

[Anduck]

I learned about Bitcointalk auction standard regarding vendor bids in that auction. Back then, ~3 years ago, I did not know that vendor bids are not cool here. The bitcointalk auction standard is vague and not even described anywhere. I've held countless auctions since, with no complaints. Now two DT'ers are stepping in to rate me for that vendor bid (at least publicly they state that as the reason). Do you see that as reasonable and justified? "Warning! Trade with extreme caution!"

Your trust rating has not so much to do with your self-bidding but rather with you being stubbornly defiant about it. Any reasonable person would have said "shit, I didn't realize that, sorry" and moved on whereas you're never wrong. This speaks to your poor ability to handle disputes or even minor disagreements. You're lucky to get away with two red trusts (so far).

This narrative that I did not do this "shit, didn't realize that" is misleading. Go look up how it went and stop believing in third hand stories. I am not defiant about it, why would I be. Aren't my actions speaking louder? I've not done a vendor bid since that auction! So stop spreading that bullshit narrative, it has nothing to do with reality.

[suchmoon]

This narrative that I did not do this "shit, didn't realize that" is misleading. Go look up how it went and stop believing in third hand stories. I am not defiant about it, why would I be. Aren't my actions speaking louder? I've not done a vendor bid since that auction! So stop spreading that bullshit narrative, it has nothing to do with reality.

I don't need to go anywhere, I have followed your whole 20+ page thread any many detours into other threads. The overwhelming consensus has been that you're wrong but you insist that you're potentially honest somewhere outside of Bitcointalk where self-bidding is acceptable so you must be accepted as being honest here as well. I don't think that's how it works. Your self-bid was a dishonest way to cancel the auction without explicitly cancelling it, regardless of what other auction places may or may not allow.

[Anduck]

This narrative that I did not do this "shit, didn't realize that" is misleading. Go look up how it went and stop believing in third hand stories. I am not defiant about it, why would I be. Aren't my actions speaking louder? I've not done a vendor bid since that auction! So stop spreading that bullshit narrative, it has nothing to do with reality.

I don't need to go anywhere, I have followed your whole 20+ page thread any many detours into other threads. The overwhelming consensus has been that you're wrong but you insist that you're potentially honest somewhere outside of Bitcointalk where self-bidding is acceptable so you must be accepted as being honest here as well. I don't think that's how it works. Your self-bid was a dishonest way to cancel the auction without explicitly cancelling it, regardless of what other auction places may or may not allow.

That's quite an unfair description of what has happened.

[SaltySpitoon]

I have given out perfectly reasonable feedbacks.

SaltySpitoon   2018-12-24   If you do business with SaltySpitoon, be careful. Expect problems especially if anything disputable or surprising happens. This person uses twisted logical argumentation when it suits him. Believes prejudice in the face of facts. Finds reasoning to justify whatever activity, regardless of resulting low level of reasonableness, coherence, fairness or even correctness. Applies double standards. Portrays himself as fair and conscientious -- don't fall for that. I've not done business with SaltySpitoon.

I think the situation with Salty could have been handled more reasonably.

It really could not have. We resolved things the absolute best we could. We exchanged probably over 30 messages, and spoke in depth for well over a week regarding various matters. Neither of us have any misunderstandings of each other, and we both left each other appropriate feedback. I believe that this is a perfectly acceptable outcome. Those who think my judgement is wrong, likely understand Anduck's point of view, and his feedback may be exactly what those people would want to know about me. Likewise in the opposite direction. People who dont care about any of our points of view will ignore each others warnings.

For the most part, the DT system works exactly how the users want it to work. The tool in of itself is just a hierarchical post it note. The people that bring up a cause in Meta or the Reputation sections are who define what the system is used for. Why its become accepted to give negative trust to Scammers, Spammers, Account Farmers, etc are all because of years of history of people asking questions. Debates have been had over, for example, why its ok to give account farmers negative trust. Theymos didn't put any rules anywhere that said, You must mark account farmers with red feedback. Who did they scam? No one. Why is it ok to give them red trust? Well, because people find their actions undesirable and untrustworthy when it comes to accountability and building a community. That resolution came out of a lot of discussion though. The system changes that Theymos would enact are making DT as a tool more flexible for its users, not creating some sort of regulation around it.

As far as I know, the only rule when it comes to DT and the Feedback system, is that you may not spam people's feedback. Everything else is user created. When the community as a whole like like to see something change, it'll change in that direction. That doesn't mean people having a tantrum will get their way however.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

That's quite an unfair description of what has happened.

I hate to keep feeding this discussion about your neg from Vod, but what suchmoon said is completely accurate--it's just not complete, leaving out your private conversation with Vod about feedback removal.  That's a separate matter, but the self-bidding description is on point.  I've already said my piece about both things, so I'm not going to continue flogging that poor dead horse. 

Consensus pretty much is that self-bidding on an auction here is not cool.  That's what reserve prices are for.

[Anduck]

Neither of us have any misunderstandings of each other

No lies, please. You misunderstood me heavily. I told you this (2+ times), and tried to explain what I meant, but you stick to your prejudice. You refused to truly listen to what I had to say, and you kept deliberately understanding my words in the worst possible way.

Consensus pretty much is that self-bidding on an auction here is not cool.

I know this and agree completely. I've done all my auctions without vendor bids since I learned that it's not cool here.

[suchmoon]

Neither of us have any misunderstandings of each other

No lies, please. You misunderstood me heavily. I told you this (2+ times), and tried to explain what I meant, but you stick to your prejudice. You refused to truly listen to what I had to say, and you kept deliberately understanding my words in the worst possible way.

Unless there was some hidden discussion that I'm not aware of, this doesn't make any sense. Disagreeing with you doesn't mean your opponent misunderstands you. From what I've seen Salty understood you perfectly well and engaged in a lengthy discussion with you.

[SaltySpitoon]

Neither of us have any misunderstandings of each other

No lies, please. You misunderstood me heavily. I told you this (2+ times), and tried to explain what I meant, but you stick to your prejudice. You refused to truly listen to what I had to say, and you kept deliberately understanding my words in the worst possible way.

Consensus pretty much is that self-bidding on an auction here is not cool.

I know this and agree completely. I've done all my auctions without vendor bids since I learned that it's not cool here.

There would have been zero discussion about the matter for the last few years if the bolded statement was true. People make mistakes, they take actions to fix them, and its done. Unless they constantly defend their mistakes. You don't get to say, hey I'm sorry I was wrong, but actually I was right you just don't understand. I can almost guarantee there would never have been a problem with Vod, or me now, had you just said, "yeah, it was my mistake" when someone called you on it.

I absolutely completely understood your justification to me. And thought it was wrong. Its not prejudice, there are just inconsistencies in the story which lead me to believe you are not being truthful. If you are being truthful, it doesn't change anything, because it still makes me question your ability to rectify your mistakes. Being able to convince yourself that you are the victim for screwing someone else over is WAYYY more alarming to me than making a mistake due to a cultural difference. I've been trying to avoid telling you what the correct answer to the situation would have been, on the off chance that figuring it out on your own would have given a possibility of redemption.

The analogy I told you about the tourist giving people the middle finger, and whether it made sense for them to continue giving people the finger after being told of the cultural difference in meaning, was meant to spark the idea that you should have stopped defending yourself and simply given up on the idea that its ok to do something untrustworthy because of a cultural difference. When you find out you made a mistake due to a cultural difference, you say, hey sorry, this is why I thought this was ok, but I understand its different here. I'm sorry. You don't go on defending your actions and calling others out because they are misunderstanding your culture. Making a mistake and fixing it isn't a big deal. Making a mistake and continuing to try and justify your mistake for years says something about your character.

The reason I was so sure of my decision was because we fully discussed everything. I got an inside look at how your thought processing works, and thats where I found the problem. My feedback isn't meant to warn people that you are a dishonest scammer, its that there is the possibility of them getting screwed over by you, because you are exceptionally able to warp and twist what most would call common sense in order to justify your own actions, even when not a single person is on your side.

I have absolutely nothing invested in my negative feedback to you. Its not a fight I need to win, power tripping, or a matter of pride. If I had to say I had any attached emotion, it'd be that I'm a little irritated that you think I'm being hasty, when we've spent so much time talking. Claiming I'm misunderstanding the situation when I've given you ample time to clear up any misunderstanding, and even responded back on any unclear points I might have had is a little demeaning.


TLDR:

My tie in to why this is relevant to this thread, is that DT takes effort. I don't leave someone a negative on something iffy, and many other DT members do the same. It took hours of discussion with you before I felt comfortable doing so. I absolutely believe I gave you a fair shake and put in far more effort than is reasonably expected to coax your true intentions out. That said, DT's purpose is to give accurate/reliable feedback. You might disagree with me, but I gave people resources to investigate my claim for themselves. If they don't agree with me, they don't need to heed my advice. Thats essentially all there is to it. The same is true to your feedback about me, if they don't agree with your claim, they are free to ignore your feedback. Thats how it works, DT is just a good starting point for those who don't know who to trust yet. Give a member a few months here, and they create their own weighted trust lists, at least in their head if not by physically altering their list.

We are not going to agree with one another, and I'm perfectly alright with that. I just hope that we can agree that each other's feedback will only matter those those who choose to value it based on their own perception of its merit.



*edit* Quoting for my own future reference...

Unless they constantly defend their mistakes

I am solely saying that vendor bidding is not unethical, scam, untrustworthy or bad behavior in general, when it's applicable. Vendor bidding is done in various auctions around the world. I fully understand that it is not part of Bitcointalk auctions. I told you this many many times, but you just refuse to listen.

I don't defend my mistake. (This is obvious from my very first message regarding this.) I defend myself when people call me a scammer, because I've not scammed anyone.

Vod told me that he doesn't see anything untrustworthy in how the auction went. Even though his rating mentions the vendor bid. He misunderstood me illogically, and didn't listen when I told him how he read my words illogically. See this.

You're talking about my thought process with quite a confidence.

Your description of why you're rating me is not in line with your other output. For example, you implied that your DT position played a significant role in that event, as you felt that by rating me negatively I wouldn't need to "worry about Vod anymore".

Also, you're applying double standards as you're not red-rating someone who changed auction rules mid-auction. Yet you do a fresh red-rating to someone who didn't know about bitcointalk auction standard (and didn't change auction rules.)

[Anduck]

Unless they constantly defend their mistakes

I am solely saying that vendor bidding is not unethical, scam, untrustworthy or bad behavior in general, when it's applicable. Vendor bidding is done in various auctions around the world. I fully understand that it is not part of Bitcointalk auctions. I told you this many many times, but you just refuse to listen. You just keep on telling me how you think that vendor bidding is absolutely dishonest and that I'm bullshitting you when I say that it's actually quite common practice. I presented you various sources where you can go and educate yourself, but you refused and instead believe your prejudice.

I don't defend my mistake. (This is obvious from my very first message regarding this.) I defend myself when Vod (and you?) call me a scammer, because I've not scammed anyone.

Vod told me that he doesn't see anything untrustworthy in how the auction went. Even though his rating mentions the vendor bid. He misunderstood me illogically, and didn't listen when I told him how he read my words illogically. See this.

You're talking about my thought process with quite a confidence.

Your description of why you're rating me is not in line with your other output. For example, you implied that your DT position played a significant role in that event, as you felt that by rating me negatively I wouldn't need to "worry about Vod anymore". That is abuse of position and so called "power tripping".

Also, you're applying double standards as you're not red-rating someone who changed auction rules mid-auction. Yet you do a fresh red-rating to someone who didn't know about bitcointalk auction standard (and didn't change auction rules.)

Consensus pretty much is that self-bidding on an auction here is not cool.

I know this and agree completely. I've done all my auctions without vendor bids since I learned that it's not cool here.

There would have been zero discussion about the matter for the last few years if the bolded statement was true.

Have a try at explaining how the bold statement is untrue? I've not done a vendor bid since that auction ~3 years ago. Bitcointalk auction standard doesn't include vendor bidding. Anyway, your logic is flawed and your attempts at steering opinions or whatever with such no content sentences are pathetic.

My feedback isn't meant to warn people that you are a dishonest scammer, its that there is the possibility of them getting screwed over by you, because you are exceptionally able to warp and twist what most would call common sense in order to justify your own actions, even when not a single person is on your side.

This makes no sense. What's your beef with me? Your prejudice is what you call "common sense", now? How about digging up real common sense and stop harassing me.

[Timelord2067]

Have just come across this thread. Who do I have to thank for removing or excluding me from DT2?

[Lauda]

Have just come across this thread. Who do I have to thank for removing or excluding me from DT2?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full shows: hilariousandco, Lutpin, DarkStar_, Tomatocage, EcuaMobi have you excluded. I don't think it's an exclusion problem, but rather an inclusion one. Whoever had you included, removed the inclusion from what I can tell. Wrong thread though?

[Timelord2067]

Have just come across this thread. Who do I have to thank for removing or excluding me from DT2?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full shows: hilariousandco, Lutpin, DarkStar_, Tomatocage, EcuaMobi have you excluded. I don't think it's an exclusion problem, but rather an inclusion one. Whoever had you included, removed the inclusion from what I can tell. Wrong thread though?

Thanks for the info, I don't believe it's the wrong thread as my UID details etc form the basis of one entry of the list the tread is based around.

Tom & Hilarious are understandable. Lupin is a supprise. Dark Star & Ecuai - no idea.

[LoyceV]

I will probably do an update

Let me archive this thread, so we have a copy of DT1 and 2 before the changes.

[coinlocket$]

New topic here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095716.0 ,  This one is archived and It will be closed soon.