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Author Topic: [Brainstorm] How do we verify/validate newbie/unknown bidders in larger auctions  (Read 446 times)
teeGUMES
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December 05, 2018, 10:27:53 PM
 #21

As ognasty mentioned we'd have to crack down hard on the people that have been proven to shill bid or host unfair auctions. As long as everyone keeps on accepting it there's no point in arguing about how to handle newbie accounts. After all, I assume the main issue is that we believe the newbies to be shill bidders, correct?

Not necessarily "believe all newbies to be shill bidders" but rather for if there is a newbie bidder we have somewhere to point them.. right now its a free for all and its just he said she said / who can yell "shill bidder" the loudest. Auctions are free game here with the ability to edit posts and whatnot, its up to us to control an patrol round these parts. AKA I think we do a pretty good job without moderation, but for someone that isn't around all the time they should have some sort of FAQ/Guideline that they can look at for proper bidding etiquette.
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December 05, 2018, 10:37:44 PM
 #22

As ognasty mentioned we'd have to crack down hard on the people that have been proven to shill bid or host unfair auctions. As long as everyone keeps on accepting it there's no point in arguing about how to handle newbie accounts. After all, I assume the main issue is that we believe the newbies to be shill bidders, correct?

You are 100% correct! However if I see a newbie bidding in certain people's auctions who I trust I wouldn't think twice about it. Others definitely give me an uneasy feeling, so I won't bid or stop bidding. Ultimately it just affects them because they lose out on serious bidders.

Me personally,  I will not levey a blatent accusation without 100% certainty. I'm a little bit more tactful in my words, I think that's just the Southerner in me.

I will not be much help in resolving this issue, but I was lending credence to that there is a problem. Wish I had an idea of how to help solve this.
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December 05, 2018, 11:17:31 PM
Merited by Anduck (1), Hhampuz (1), Kryptowerk (1)
 #23

Everyone is focusing on newbie accounts, and yet, this very website we are all using facilitates the buying/selling of established usernames for profit.  If people want to effectively shill bid, they would be foolish to use a newbie account because it's very easy to obtain one of these established accounts. So, in all practicality, all of these rules are only saying that we care about the lazy and sloppy shill bidders only. 

This rule work for me:

Only buy/bid if you think the price is good

If it smell fishy don't bid. More auctions will come.
If the seller have to pump an auction the product is not worth the money.


This is the only way to actually address the problem if you assume that there are established accounts conducting shill bidding.  Unfortunately, it also means people are less likely to participate in serious price discovery when using this site (due to lack of trust described above). 
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December 06, 2018, 12:30:12 AM
Merited by Hhampuz (1)
 #24

I think everyone who runs an auction should just have a rule that works for them.

Personally, when I first came here, I was terrified of auctions. Took me a long time to even bid on one actually. Tongue

Mine will now state something like "I and I alone reserve the right to refuse to accept any bid for any reason, regardless of who you are, trust or otherwise - This does not mean you should be hesitant to bid, but if you are, just PM me first, I don't bite!".

Thanks! Smiley
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December 06, 2018, 02:32:15 AM
 #25

I love selling to newbies! i think all of us as collectors should try to welcome newbies. Without them our collections are worthless. 

Shill bidding is usually obvious.  I stop bidding on those auctions.

To err is human, to moo is bovine...
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December 06, 2018, 02:43:40 AM
 #26

Maybe auctioneer stating publicly whether a newbie/suspicious bid is accepted or not, and/or if it needs some private stuff before bid gets accepted, would be a good practice. This would make it clear for other participants and auctioneer could e.g. vouch/clear the legitimacy of a bid this way.

But as mentioned, shill/newbie bidding can be pretty hard to spot as accounts get traded etc..

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December 06, 2018, 03:30:30 AM
 #27

As a newbie, I would not have any collectibles if I was made to buy a copper membership before bidding.

Its a fine line between discouraging shill bids and discouraging new collectors.

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December 06, 2018, 03:38:43 AM
 #28

As a newbie, I would not have any collectibles if I was made to buy a copper membership before bidding.

Its a fine line between discouraging shill bids and discouraging new collectors.



Why not? copper membership is like 0.0035BTC.

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December 06, 2018, 03:55:56 AM
 #29


Why not? copper membership is like 0.0035BTC.

Really? okay, did not know it was that cheap and I probably will.

Its more the idea of "pay to play" that I wouldnt have liked.
I think it was Digicoinuser that sold me my first coin and PMing the auctioneer first worked well.

You are all a great community here and very welcoming.
Please dont get too hung up on shill bidders to the point you exclude new users.
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December 06, 2018, 04:11:56 AM
 #30

Copper membership: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=credit;promote

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December 06, 2018, 06:31:41 PM
Merited by krogothmanhattan (1)
 #31

Spending $13 usd for a copper membership will NOT prevent shilling.

That tactic is a cheap decoy, simply to bid up 1BTC+ auctions.    Roll Eyes



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December 06, 2018, 07:03:54 PM
 #32

Spending $13 usd for a copper membership will NOT prevent shilling.

That tactic is a cheap decoy, simply to bid up 1BTC+ auctions.    Roll Eyes

Exactly. And if someone wants to scam in auctions (especially higher valuable), much more elaborate tactics, like bought established accounts will be used. There have been quite shady cases where auction shilling has conducted, in one form or another. These cases should not be forgotten so easily, because they obviously know what they did and what for. I.e. it's not an accident when someone hypes up or encourages others to bid on some auction when the person is concealed to be the seller too.

A good practice for the bidder is to establish some sort of level of knowledge of ballpark proper prices of the auctioned items and then bid accordingly.

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