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Author Topic: If you were in charge of Bitcoin 2.0 what would you change?  (Read 987 times)
HopeHK (OP)
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December 15, 2018, 03:54:06 AM
 #1

At this point, as masterfully as Bitcoin was created, it has some limitations of course. 

My question is:  Could it be done better, or is it just matter of trading one feature for another (i.e. speed for decentralization)?
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December 15, 2018, 06:52:44 AM
 #2

You don't necessarily have to sacrifice something (If done right). If we take increasing blocksize vs SegWit.

SegWit have no downsides while increasing the blocksize could give us centralization to a certain degree as the blockchain size increases over the years.

We're far from having Bitcoin 2.0 but BIPs are definitely being put on the table and constantly being worked on so with time, the limitations will you're talking about will start to fade.

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December 15, 2018, 07:02:49 AM
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 #3

You don't necessarily have to sacrifice something (If done right). If we take increasing blocksize vs SegWit.

SegWit have no downsides while increasing the blocksize could give us centralization to a certain degree as the blockchain size increases over the years.

We're far from having Bitcoin 2.0 but BIPs are definitely being put on the table and constantly being worked on so with time, the limitations will you're talking about will start to fade.

SegWit came with the effective blocksize increase, but it was small enough to not cause any harm. The main goal of segwit wasn't scalability though, it was a fix for signature malleability that now allows developers to work on new features more easily.

At this point, as masterfully as Bitcoin was created, it has some limitations of course. 

My question is:  Could it be done better, or is it just matter of trading one feature for another (i.e. speed for decentralization)?

If you are suggesting that Bitcoin is inherently flawed and that there's a need for a brand new protocol, than look at altcoins - many of them are promising exactly that with their hashgraphs, tangle, DPOS and other buzzwords. The fact that they have no users and are plagued with bugs and other problems only means that it's too early to bury Bitcoin. It might very well be that there can be nothing better than Bitcoin's protocol.

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December 15, 2018, 07:08:25 AM
 #4

SegWit have no downsides while increasing the blocksize could give us centralization to a certain degree as the blockchain size increases over the years.

any kind of change will always have both downsides and upsides. so it is wrong to say SegWit didn't have any downsides! because it did. for example the fact that it is opt-in makes it an inefficient block size increase. and also the complexity of it has been a problem for services to adopt it.

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December 15, 2018, 07:27:57 AM
 #5

If I was in charge of Bitcoin 2.0,I wouldn't change anything in the code.
I will register bitcoin as a trademark and I would sue all the forked bitcoin cash,gold,diamond,unlimited,etc. forks for using the word "bitcoin". Grin
I won't charge btc users and companies for using that word,but all the forked altcoins will have to change their names or die.

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December 15, 2018, 08:04:59 AM
 #6

The developers have decided to go to second layer solutions now and I think this was a very smart move, because you still have the rock solid security of the core protocol <on-chain> for large transactions and then a less mature platform <off-chain> for smaller micro transactions.

The decision to reduce the security for on-chain transactions was genius, because it gives people an alternative method to transfer coins if anything fails on the off-chain side.  Cool

We do not need Bitcoin 2.0 if we just shift development onto second layers.  Wink 

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December 15, 2018, 08:24:13 AM
 #7

At this point, as masterfully as Bitcoin was created, it has some limitations of course. 

My question is: Could it be done better, or is it just matter of trading one feature for another (i.e. speed for decentralization)?

If we were to build it from scratch again, confidential transactions would be ideal. While the fully transparent ledger is good for some things, it's not ideal for transactions where privacy is necessary.

Speed and scalability are always going to be the weak points of decentralized systems. They're inefficient and redundant, and speeding up block times just worsens orphan rates, lowering transaction security.

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December 15, 2018, 08:51:24 AM
 #8

I believe franky1 will love this topic, and will have a lot to say. Especially because of his perceived "incompetence" of the Core developers in maintaining the development of a secure, censorship-resistant cryptocurrency.

Who would be your candidates as lead developers of Bitcoin 2.0?

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December 15, 2018, 12:42:53 PM
Last edit: December 15, 2018, 01:28:41 PM by franky1
 #9

You don't necessarily have to sacrifice something (If done right). If we take increasing blocksize vs SegWit.

SegWit have no downsides while increasing the blocksize could give us centralization to a certain degree as the blockchain size increases over the years.

We're far from having Bitcoin 2.0 but BIPs are definitely being put on the table and constantly being worked on so with time, the limitations will you're talking about will start to fade.

SegWit came with the effective blocksize increase, but it was small enough to not cause any harm. The main goal of segwit wasn't scalability though, it was a fix for signature malleability that now allows developers to work on new networks more easily. and to allow upgrades without consensus more easily

fixed that for you

bitcoin needs to go back to true consensus. not the trojan back door they just opened. many many people outside a certain group are noticing that bitcoin is now weaker security because of this new backdoor.
yes the certain group will promote that it makes their job of activating features easier. but it also makes malicious actors who also use the same method easier.

if you care about bitcoin security. you should not be thinking about whats easiest for a certain dev team. but whats most secure for a decentralised user to fight off code changes that the decentralised users may not want.

...
as for scaling BITCOIN. instead of moving users OFF the bitcoin network. into vaulted co-permissioned factory managed networks of unaudited payments and requiring watch towers, etc. how about just trying to actually stop making bitcoin other network compatible. and instead make bitcoin actually scale beyond 7tx/s(600k tx a day)
satoshi himself expressed the numbers back in 2009-10 that the limitation is 600k tx a day.. mempools are always containing transactions, people are waiting more than 1 block. thus obviously segwit has not fixed, offered or given any scaling benefit to solve the issue.
segwits purpose to to make bitcoin compatible with other networks so that people dont use bitcoin

lastly
although segwit fake counts bytes of a baseblock. to bypass a rule.
the rule was put inplace for hard drive storage count.
hard drive bytes per transaction of actual full nodes have shown that segwit has NOT helped bring more transactions per hard drive byte storage.
blockchain stats have shown the average transaction count decline
and th updates have also made is so bloated spammers used to be able to bloat a block with just 5tx of 4k sigops. can now bloat a block of 5tx of 16k sigops. which is not helpful. its the opposite of helpful

...
for those trying so hard to promote LN
LN is not a layer 2 of bitcoin.
LN was not designed to be a feature for bitcoin.
bitcoin had to be altered to fit LN

LN is a separate network for multiple coins. meaning what will happen for them people that want to be fullnodes to monitor channels locks to avoid double spends. is they will end up needing to be masternodes where they will have to monitor litecoin, vertcoin, bitcoin and other LN compatible coin lock mechanisms

LN does not help reduce hard drive bloat. instead its just taking users away from 100% sole control push transactions and moved it into another network that will require masternode watchtower factories who will charge to be the vaults of onchain funds to then pass out unaudited channel payments of 12 decimals. so that they can charge a fee for their service

people need to really understand not just the rose tinted empty promises. but also the stark realities of proposals. just taking a proposal as good because "trust a dev" is not a good mindset of a decentralised network

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December 15, 2018, 12:56:22 PM
 #10

I believe franky1 will love this topic, and will have a lot to say. Especially because of his perceived "incompetence" of the Core developers in maintaining the development of a secure, censorship-resistant cryptocurrency.

Who would be your candidates as lead developers of Bitcoin 2.0?

if you at least once got out of the mindset of needing 'candidates as lead developers' you would then see what decentralisation really means.

where anyone could then propose new features. and without mandated activation dates or coercion. devs actually think about the bitcoin communities needs and make code and release code that would get activated when the community see the true benefits of letting it activate.

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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December 15, 2018, 01:42:19 PM
 #11

I would change the fact that I was in charge because that is not decentralized and that is not then bitcoin as it should be. Not to mention if bitcoin were to be centralized I would be a completely useless person to have in charge.

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December 15, 2018, 02:00:55 PM
 #12

in my opinion, BTC today is perfect, only a segwit problems that will help with transactions in a block.

I hope, BTC transactions can be used for every feature in the mobile.
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December 15, 2018, 02:28:45 PM
 #13

What kind of development team has stated that it wants to run Bitcoin 2.0?

I think people need fast and cheap transactions. Now the transaction rate is very long

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December 15, 2018, 05:22:53 PM
 #14

SegWit have no downsides while increasing the blocksize could give us centralization to a certain degree as the blockchain size increases over the years.

any kind of change will always have both downsides and upsides. so it is wrong to say SegWit didn't have any downsides! because it did. for example the fact that it is opt-in makes it an inefficient block size increase. and also the complexity of it has been a problem for services to adopt it.

Segwit's goal wasn't the blocksize increase, so it's wrong to criticize it for it. And being opt-in is the result of softfork, and softforks are great because they are much less disruptive than hardforks, so there's almost no risk of chain splits.

It's also wrong to say that SegWit was complex, all you had to do is update your wallet software and create a new SegWit-compatible wallet. Some services did this only after a few days or a week after the fork, big services like Coinbase just didn't care about their customers, which resulted in huge fees later in 2017.

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December 15, 2018, 06:57:02 PM
Last edit: December 15, 2018, 07:17:11 PM by franky1
 #15

Segwit's goal wasn't the blocksize increase, so it's wrong to criticize it for it. And being opt-in is the result of softfork, and softforks are great because they are much less disruptive than hardforks, so there's almost no risk of chain splits.

It's also wrong to say that SegWit was complex, all you had to do is update your wallet software and create a new SegWit-compatible wallet. Some services did this only after a few days or a week after the fork, big services like Coinbase just didn't care about their customers, which resulted in huge fees later in 2017.

no risk of chain splits......................
........ apart from the one caused in august 2017 to actually get segwit activated

for years peopl have been begging for devs to scale bitcoin. devs came up with a scaling roadmap. segwit was the stepping stone for that.. so critisizing segwit for not helping scale bitcoin is warranted.
segwits goal was to make using normal bitcoin transaction formats 4x more expensive.
segwits goal was to make bitcoin more compatible with a separate network thats not a blockchain and not a feature for bitcoin. segwits goal was to open a backdoor so devs can now push things into bitcoin without consensus

so step one of actually scaling bitcoin. get rid of the hideous witness scale factor, which will achieve:
1. transaction bytes being again counted correctly and fully
2. transactions not being pushed up in price
3. the 4mb 'weight' actually being fully utilisable
4. we may actually see transaction counts finally surpass the 600k a day limit thats been around for nearly 10 years now

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December 15, 2018, 07:28:58 PM
 #16

Segwit's goal wasn't the blocksize increase, so it's wrong to criticize it for it. And being opt-in is the result of softfork, and softforks are great because they are much less disruptive than hardforks, so there's almost no risk of chain splits.

It's also wrong to say that SegWit was complex, all you had to do is update your wallet software and create a new SegWit-compatible wallet. Some services did this only after a few days or a week after the fork, big services like Coinbase just didn't care about their customers, which resulted in huge fees later in 2017.

no risk of chain splits......................
........ apart from the one caused in august 2017 to actually get segwit activated

What chain split? Segwit reached the 95% threshold and activation went off without a hitch. There was never any network partition -- no orphaned chains post-fork, no lost transactions, nothing.

If you're talking about Bitcoin Cash, that was a new protocol that copied Bitcoin's ledger and launched at block height 478558. It was no more a "chain split" than any of the other dozens of Bitcoin forks (like Bitcoin Diamond and Super Bitcoin) were.

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December 15, 2018, 07:35:05 PM
 #17

What kind of development team has stated that it wants to run Bitcoin 2.0?

I think people need fast and cheap transactions. Now the transaction rate is very long

There's no team in particular, just hypothetical.  Some great insights in this thread though, wow.
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December 15, 2018, 07:42:28 PM
 #18

I wouldn't change anything. Bitcoin is working just fine as it is. I also wouldn't want to be the person in charge, because it would kill decentralization and make ma a target. Things could have been much worse for Bitcoin if Satoshi remained active and at some point CIA or some other agency tracked him down. We never know how things would work out if just one thing was different. If there was no Mark Karpeles and his scam exchange, maybe Bitcoin would be worth 50000 dollars now?
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December 15, 2018, 07:45:55 PM
 #19

I'm too technically disabled to make an informed comment on this but if I were planning something -

If I were truly committed to it being used as an actual currency I would've gone for XMR's ongoing trickle of inflation. Human nature won't change and people will hoard something that deflates. That also clears up any doubts about the end of the block reward.

I would've started off with Satoshis as the base unit, or units made up of 100 Satoshis. I know unit bias is stupid. People are stupid.

I'll leave all the other aspects to better educated people.



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December 15, 2018, 07:54:36 PM
 #20

If I were Satoshi 2.0, I would ensure that further fork of Bitcoin doesn't happen anymore. I know early adopters of bitcoin won't like my side of wishful thinking as that would prevent them from coming into unplanned wealth which forks have always provided for them.

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