Lightning Network records are booming

i don't see anybody talking about this here. Lightning Network has been growing constantly ever since last year's SegWit activation. currently the capacity is nearly 500BTC which is close to $2 million.

there are 4600 nodes with 15000 channels. and there are lots of shops that are accepting payments through LN. most notably Bitrefil which has been one of the oldest shops accepting bitcoin payments through LN. node capacities are now going as high as 27.8BTC and the transaction fees are less than 1 satoshi!

reference: https://1ml.com/

Quote from: pooya87 on December 22, 2018, 02:00:28 AM

i don't see anybody talking about this here.

This is true. And I find it intriguing.

I guess it's because it's the type of thing that'll gradually sneak up in increments rather than landing in your lap with a bang. If developers were savvy, and shallow, enough enough of them would collectively agree to have a 'launch'.

I've had a couple of fiddles and couldn't get anywhere with failed routings. It may need a SPV type of upgrade/downgrade to draw more people. I don't know what the current status is.

Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2018, 02:27:55 AM

It may need a SPV type of upgrade/downgrade to draw more people. I don't know what the current status is.

i have been looking at Electrum github for a while now. it has a Lightning branch with 559 new commits and they have been actively working on it. i am still not sure how it would work but it certainly can be a good addition to have if completed. it seems like your Electrum can act as an LN node on its own but there are still problems since it is an SPV node.
here is the branch: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/tree/lightning
and a summary of the situation: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/2557#issuecomment-438718104

Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2018, 02:27:55 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on December 22, 2018, 02:00:28 AM

i don't see anybody talking about this here.

Ah, the classic altcoin-pumping method! Cheesy

It's been coming in dribs and drabs. I think it's too early to expect much -- we're definitely not there yet in terms of usability for average users. The bear market has also sort of crushed all excitement about anything.

Not so much attention is drawn to this network which is bringing the experience of bitcoin to the world with or without internet. I recently saw a write up about it and it blows my mind what Lightning Network is doing.

Is that necessarily a good thing though? I mean It's nice to see that and all but we have to not forget that the developers themselves asked to not use LN in mainnet yet. If something wrong happens and people lose their money, they will start shouting that LN is broken while It's only their fault.

Yes LN is under the radar in this big bloodbath , When the market turns Green everyone will focus on the Potential of LN , adoption and technology in it . Next bull run will be a very organic and solid one which will go parallel with the development of Blockchain technology.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on December 22, 2018, 07:29:34 AM

True, but there's no way to stop them. They're pioneers and we should appreciate their willingness to gamble. The people using LN now are much like the people using Bitcoin in its early days. The software was buggy and unreliable, and the whole design was experimental.

The old adage always applies: "Don't put in more than you can afford to lose!"

Lightning Network is criminally underrated because it doesn't have a marketing team, unlike shitcoins and tokens. Developers are following Satoshi's ""If you build it, they will come" approach, and I think it's the best approach, because it doesn't create any false hopes and illusions.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on December 22, 2018, 07:29:34 AM

I doubt that the victims would be shouting, because they know the risks they are taking, but Bitcoin's opponents will not lose an opportunity to throw mud at Bitcoin. But crypto history has examples of communities tolerating software screw-ups, so it wouldn't damage Lighting in the long run, unless there is some fundamental problem, which is unlikely.

i saw a pretty cool demo posted on reddit earlier today: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/a8g1o0/daniel_alexiuc_buying_beers_with_lightning/

the wallet (wallet of satoshi) hasn't been released yet but the UI looks awesome. as we can see, LN is significantly faster than chip credit card payments so there's so much potential for brick-and-mortar commerce.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on December 22, 2018, 07:29:34 AM

wasn't the warning for many months ago?
anyways it doesn't have to be a bad thing. we can not progress without people using the applications (LN implementations) and test them so that the bugs come out. besides all the shops that i know of are selling small stuff so the money changing hands is not that much.
people always FUD bitcoin anyways and there has been bitcoins that were lost to wallet bugs in the past and will be more in the future too. so even if some losses occur on LN it still wouldn't be a new thing.

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on December 22, 2018, 09:06:40 AM

But crypto history has examples of communities tolerating software screw-ups, so it wouldn't damage Lighting in the long run, unless there is some fundamental problem, which is unlikely.

The fundamental problem i see is the security issues as it does not use the blockchain for the transactions inside the node and i would not use it for larger transactions and most of the people will not risk it either, a simple screw up when it comes to money wont be tolerated by the masses and it will have an impact in the future development and adaptability, yet i am waiting for complete development and the most interesting part is the atomic swaps which i am looking forward to try in the future.

Is there a wallet that the average person (i.e. not someone on this forum) can use to make a payment over LN right now?

I'm all for LN, but buying and sending bitcoin is already fairly daunting to the average non-technical person. From what I've experienced myself of LN (granted it was a few months ago I last played around with it), it requires a fair amount of knowledge and set-up which would turn a less technical user away. Until it is as easy as sending a normal transaction (i.e. scanning a QR code), it's probably not going to gather a huge amount of attention. Has there been a wallet developed (or in development) that makes it this easy yet?

Edit: Good to see your account back pooya87. Love the new avatar.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 22, 2018, 03:22:46 PM

Until it is as easy as sending a normal transaction (i.e. scanning a QR code), it's probably not going to gather a huge amount of attention. Has there been a wallet developed (or in development) that makes it this easy yet?

I don't think the developers themselves would encourage the masses to try it as it is. Even if there was something like that perhaps it would be prudent to hold it back until things were stable and ironed out.

I played with the Eclair testnet wallet last year or whatever. I'm pretty sure that did QR codes. It worked fine in the end but it took a fair bit of fiddling.

There's going to need to be a lot of adjustments before it moves from curio to mainstay. Early Bitcoin developers had the luxury of obscurity.

Let's keep LN underrated until it's stable enough and easy-to-use LN wallet are available.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on December 22, 2018, 03:22:46 PM

Is there a wallet that the average person (i.e. not someone on this forum) can use to make a payment over LN right now?

There are few wallet with that goal such as Eclair Wallet (Android and Desktop) and Zap (Desktop).

I've tried both of them on testnet few months ago and clearly it's not suitable for regular person, but it's easy for Bitcoiner who know the basic of how LN works. Eclair requires no configuration while Zap still need few configuration.
But it should be possible now on Eclair if the store/services generate QR code. For example https://www.lightningspin.com/ already show QR codes when you want to start gambling, even though i haven't tried it as it's on mainnet.

Also, link shared by figmentofmyass also show pretty much what you ask/think

Quote from: gentlemand on December 22, 2018, 03:27:48 PM

I don't think the developers themselves would encourage the masses to try it as it is.

Agreed. But until we are at stage that they do, we are unlikely to see the general excitement or buzz that pooya87 is talking about. The average bitcoin user probably doesn't know much about Lightning Network, and the average forum user is here for altcoin bounties and not much else. The level of ignorance surrounding segwit is still very high - it will be a long time before knowledge and discussion about LN is commonplace.

Quote from: ETFbitcoin on December 22, 2018, 03:59:23 PM

There are few wallet with that goal such as Eclair Wallet (Android and Desktop) and Zap (Desktop).

Thanks for that - I'll check them out after the festive season.

The video is impressive, but as he says, the wallet is not released yet. It also gives no indication about how easy and quick or complicated and time consuming it was to initially configure and connect to a node.

Its still underdevelopment and i think the developers would rather the average joe not use it as it is. That being said its great how the network is growing with devs working hard and products like casa lightning node, i am looking forward to the future of the lightning network

Generally speaking, I don't see much interest for LN (I mean, outside here) and not many talks too. Maybe a lot are not aware or think it's something that will be released in 5 years ....

The stats could look nice but since it's something new without back records... People are probably testing the water, but they could be less interested after too. Saying a lot of shops are using LN is something subjective.

For me, this is very good news, although of course - the network is not growing fast, but if such growth rates of the ligthining network are maintained, then over the next few years, the LN will be able to include to its structure many biggest online retailers and this will allow her to go global.

wow that's good news and rarely discussed, bitcoin has experienced a lot of development and for the next few years I'm sure bitcoin will become a very popular digital currency and used by many people