Why do BTC ASIC miners have less improvements than other ASICS.

[mikeywith]

 
  I mean the SHA256 ASICs in general develp slower and less efficiently than other algorithms.

 if we make a small compassion between SHA256 and X11 Asics made by Bitmain we get this.

X11

 D3 (Aug 2017) 19gh  1350w

 D5 (recently)     120Gh 1566w
----------------

SHA256

S9 (May 2016) 14th 1370w

S15(recently )28th 1595w

----------------

I know that these are measured in different units TH and GH but this is not my point.

the point is even though the D3 was released at longer period after the S9, the performance of the D5 is by factor of 6.3 while the S15 is has only a factor of 2 compared to the S9 (took power consumption out because they are almost exactly the same).


what is the possible technical explanation behind this? why did it take bitmain this long " assuming they release everything the moment the make it" to only have double the hashrate when they had the power of 6 d3s put in 1 D5.

I do not seem to grasp the technical part behind this , as Algorithm based ,we know the X11 is more complicated as it used 11 different hash functions and is based on SHA-3 which is supreme to the SHA-2 that SHA256 uses.

also in general, does this slow improvement indicate that we are getting closer and closer to the limit of transistor technology? are we close enough to fully utilize 7nm and then sit there for couple years without any major improvements in the ASIC mining industry?

[1715318651]

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[1715318651]

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[areyouathief]

does this slow improvement indicate that we are getting closer and closer to the limit of transistor technology? are we close enough to fully utilize 7nm and then sit there for couple years without any major improvements in the ASIC mining industry?

this ^^^
bitcoin has biggest marketcap, so strongest competition also in ASIC development
highest quality ASIC engineering means: no huge room for improvement in new bitcoin ASICs
so, all expect improvements rather from 7nm improvement than from serious ASIC redesign

interesting article here:
https://www.coindesk.com/inside-bitewei-the-20-million-bitcoin-miner-being-hailed-as-a-bitmain-rival

[Hueristic]

SHA256 is one rudimentary algorithm that was optimized years ago while x11 literally means 11 algorithms so there is much more room to improve there. Silicon improvements have had diminishing returns for years now.

[jstefanop]

ASIC development on SHA256 has been going on since 2011, with about 4-5 process node updates and 2-3 generation updates in between nodes.

Development for other algos is no older than ~2 years, and these all probably started at the very cheap 90nm node, so its very easy to get a 6x gain going from 90-45nm.

Its a little harder for SHA256 to see huge gains going from 16nm to 10 or 7. Bitcoin ASICs have pretty much caught up with the latest node tech, so there wont be any more crazy gains in the future.

[Nasdam]

ASIC development on SHA256 has been going on since 2011, with about 4-5 process node updates and 2-3 generation updates in between nodes.

Development for other algos is no older than ~2 years, and these all probably started at the very cheap 90nm node, so its very easy to get a 6x gain going from 90-45nm.

Its a little harder for SHA256 to see huge gains going from 16nm to 10 or 7. Bitcoin ASICs have pretty much caught up with the latest node tech, so there wont be any more crazy gains in the future.

I agree. the improvement of ASH256 relies more on the shrink of die now.

[philipma1957]

ASIC development on SHA256 has been going on since 2011, with about 4-5 process node updates and 2-3 generation updates in between nodes.

Development for other algos is no older than ~2 years, and these all probably started at the very cheap 90nm node, so its very easy to get a 6x gain going from 90-45nm.

Its a little harder for SHA256 to see huge gains going from 16nm to 10 or 7. Bitcoin ASICs have pretty much caught up with the latest node tech, so there wont be any more crazy gains in the future.

I agree. the improvement of ASH256 relies more on the shrink of die now.

The s-7 to the s-9

Was 250 watts a th to 100 watts a th a solid leap done in 2016 say may or June.

We won’t be seeing that improvement any more for sha 256.


Right now the m10 does 67 to 70 watts a th which is the best the 16 mn die does for btc/sha-256

The newest bitmain sha256 does about 50 watts a th I think it is 7mn.

Based on what was done with the m10  maybe those same guys can get to 35 watts a th


Lots of other asics are on 45mn and the code has not been worked on as much.

[Hueristic]

ASIC development on SHA256 has been going on since 2011, with about 4-5 process node updates and 2-3 generation updates in between nodes.

Development for other algos is no older than ~2 years, and these all probably started at the very cheap 90nm node, so its very easy to get a 6x gain going from 90-45nm.

Its a little harder for SHA256 to see huge gains going from 16nm to 10 or 7. Bitcoin ASICs have pretty much caught up with the latest node tech, so there wont be any more crazy gains in the future.

I agree. the improvement of ASH256 relies more on the shrink of die now.

Thats not what he said at all, try re-reading his post. Asic chips are running into the same issue Intel and Amd have been dealing with for years now as the proceses mature they become more cost effective for the wider market as foundries open up smaller node tech and convert lines over to larger wafers and get higher yields but these are all Diminishing returns right now. there will be no exponential increases until new (maybe graphene) substrates are used. 3 dimensional processes will also allow larger footprints but run into thermal barriers.

[smoolae]

Like a lot of other users have already mentioned, the thing is in the time that BTC ASICs have been around. Bitcoin ASICs don't have any reasonable paths to receive upgrades at the moment anymore. We just have to wait until some new discoveries are made in the field of nanotechnology before we see any big jumps in efficiency and computing power.

[swogerino]

7nm is a big improvement from Bitmain although you may not see at it like this. Intel one of the majors micro processors producers had a lot of difficulties during the last few years trying to reach 7nm and I think they are in the process of moving there right now.

It all depends on the algorithm , the d5 sounds like a good improvement but I am sure after very few months it will not be profitable compared to S15 which will still be after a few months. Don't get played by bitmain and their crap marketing division. Stay with sha256 , it is the safest bet.

[chup]

...because kids are growing faster than adults, don't they? 

[mikeywith]

...because kids are growing faster than adults, don't they? 

they don't, everyone grows a day older every 24 hours.

[astraleureka]

X11

 D3 (Aug 2017) 19gh  1350w

 D5 (recently)     120Gh 1566w
----------------

SHA256

S9 (May 2016) 14th 1370w

S15(recently )28th 1595w

Bitmain's chips are also not very efficient compared to competitors. They lost their original chip designers and have been working with weaker knowledge internally.