No-login coin swap exchanges on TOR ?

[Lionel]

Shapeshift has been an anonymous exchange for some time, until the authorities forced them to add KYC/AML .

And this will likely happen also to all Shapeshift alternatives, like Changelly, Flyp.me, etc.

So why nobody thought about opening a Shapeshift alternative as a TOR hidden service?
That would mean the platform owners are anonymous as well and the servers location would be unknown, so that the exchange can work without KYC requirements forever.

Of course, the downside is mass adoption difficulties: not many people know about TOR, and the onion addresses are not very human-friendly.

Any thoughts?

[exstasie]

So why nobody thought about opening a Shapeshift alternative as a TOR hidden service?
That would mean the platform owners are anonymous as well and the servers location would be unknown, so that the exchange can work without KYC requirements forever.

It's a cool idea but too risky for the operators. The model of Shapeshift and other cryptocurrency swap services is to act as a market maker on the major exchanges. The prices they offer depend on current order book liquidity.

There's no way for them to avoid KYC with the exchanges if they want to offer a decent service that scales. All the authorities need to do then is shake down the exchanges for their account information. Then they can come after the operators.

[OmegaStarScream]

Running in both clearnet and darknet? Because there will be a lack of trust If it's only running in the darknet. We've seen in the past services that simply run with people's funds after having a decent userbase and because of the anonymity there, It's pretty much impossible to know the people behind these services.

I think that for now, an alternative is to use a VPN that runs through the Tor network and also use wallets that has Changelly or ShapeShift integrated like Exodus, Trezor etc. these are not asked for KYC verification (but It's very likely that it will come).

[Lionel]

So why nobody thought about opening a Shapeshift alternative as a TOR hidden service?
That would mean the platform owners are anonymous as well and the servers location would be unknown, so that the exchange can work without KYC requirements forever.

It's a cool idea but too risky for the operators. The model of Shapeshift and other cryptocurrency swap services is to act as a market maker on the major exchanges. The prices they offer depend on current order book liquidity.

There's no way for them to avoid KYC with the exchanges if they want to offer a decent service that scales. All the authorities need to do then is shake down the exchanges for their account information. Then they can come after the operators.

You mean that a "coin swap" service must be using the classic exchanges's API in order to work? So the coin swap creators are subject to KYC, because they must be registered to the exchange to use their trade API.
Well yes, for now.

But atomic swaps on the Lighting Network are becoming a reality, so you can become an exchange as well, as long as you have the wallets on your machine, and a LN daemon.
You swap directly in the blockchain, no need to use Bitstamp API or such, so a LN coin swap exchange owner does not even need to be registered on a classic exchange, let alone KYC.

[Lionel]

Running in both clearnet and darknet? Because there will be a lack of trust If it's only running in the darknet. We've seen in the past services that simply run with people's funds after having a decent userbase and because of the anonymity there, It's pretty much impossible to know the people behind these services.

I think that for now, an alternative is to use a VPN that runs through the Tor network and also use wallets that has Changelly or ShapeShift integrated like Exodus, Trezor etc. these are not asked for KYC verification (but It's very likely that it will come).

The alternative is good, for now.

Trust is a more complex topic than just saying "It's regulated, then it's trustworthy".
Exit scams happen all the time even with "regulated" services as well, in that when they scam you they just invent good excuses to justify the scam.

Take for example the regulated Bookmakers that block your accounts and cancel your winnings when you win too much, and of course they will invent credible excuses to justify that.
Now some of them, like Pinnacle, are putting the phrase "We don't block accounts" even into their adv banners on the web, so what i am saying is  a known fact apparently.

Take for example Paypal and their dispute system. It gives you a fake sense of security, because Paypal is not going to properly investigate on a dispute in order to solve that in the right way.
If i am a merchant and a user issues a chargeback and returns my item, there is not guarantee that my item comes back in one piece. And if i send them a picture of the broken item, they will still not believe me and won't investigate any further.

IMO aggressive marketing and user feedback are the only things that determine the trust level of a service or person.
At the end of the day, the "tx confirmations" are just a particular type of user feedback, right? And it works, it defines trust. No need for regulation for that.

An onion service that is marketed properly and worked well for many years, IMO would gain people's trust despite being a dark web site.

[exstasie]

I think that for now, an alternative is to use a VPN that runs through the Tor network and also use wallets that has Changelly or ShapeShift integrated like Exodus, Trezor etc. these are not asked for KYC verification (but It's very likely that it will come).

Really, you can still use Shapeshift through 3rd party wallets without Shapeshift membership? I thought these 3rd party integrations stopped working after the recent changes. Maybe I heard wrong. I can't imagine they'll sustain long term because it's a total loophole around the mandated KYC and it depends on centralized services.

I've heard some horror stories about Changelly forcing KYC on some people or confiscating their funds. I'd steer clear of them.

[Lionel]

Running in both clearnet and darknet? Because there will be a lack of trust If it's only running in the darknet. We've seen in the past services that simply run with people's funds after having a decent userbase and because of the anonymity there, It's pretty much impossible to know the people behind these services.

Right, many people have a strong bias against darknet, like "i'm sure it's a scam, just for being on the darknet".

The solution would be to make a swap exchange that runs as a Dapp for ETH , TRX, NEO wallets.
That is not considered "darknet" and would be accepted,.

The only drawback for now is lack of anonimity, in that a ETH/TRX/NEO wallet is needed to run a DApp, and those wallets reveal your IP.

So i can't wait for them to integrate some IP privacy in the wallets, that would open up a whole new world of possibilities for traders, and not only.
It would give complete freedom from cersorship to DApp creators and users.

[milewilda]

I think that for now, an alternative is to use a VPN that runs through the Tor network and also use wallets that has Changelly or ShapeShift integrated like Exodus, Trezor etc. these are not asked for KYC verification (but It's very likely that it will come).

Really, you can still use Shapeshift through 3rd party wallets without Shapeshift membership? I thought these 3rd party integrations stopped working after the recent changes. Maybe I heard wrong. I can't imagine they'll sustain long term because it's a total loophole around the mandated KYC and it depends on centralized services.

I've heard some horror stories about Changelly forcing KYC on some people or confiscating their funds. I'd steer clear of them.

For those service who have integrated Shapeshift when it comes to conversions they do already imply or required that they would really be updated.So it means you would still need to comply that
KYC process.So you wont any have choice but to use up Changely which ive been using now.They do have some issues but it do works like a charm on my part but though im transacting
small amounts because i cant risk big chunks if i do know it do have some issues.About on the idea of OP its great to have it but it do really have advantage and disadvantages which have been mentioned by
Omega above.