Ledger Live

[Princemachiavelli]

Hey everyone.

Posting here as it eventually relates to bitcoin.

Ledger live is a huge problem when synchronizing with Zcash. The ledger device and ledger live’s firmware are up to date. I have been mining and I know this is an issue as I have been in contact with their support team but no luck. Anyone else have these kinds of issues or anything related to this ?  This issue needs to be addressed immediately by the ledger community because ETF’s cannot be pushed back anymore and this may be the introduction of mass adoption soon.

And I need to trade my coins hahah

[Princemachiavelli]

I don't use Zcash, but most synchronizing problem happen because you use VPN, Proxy, Tor or your IP blocked by CloudFlare & you messed up with security configuration if you use Linux OS.

But according to reddit page, it says you're not supposed to mine to a HW wallet. Fortunately, user gikach gave a handy guide to transfer your coin manually. Even though i won't recommend jaxx.io wallet as it's buggy/have security bug.

Solution that worked for me:

    Found mnemonic code converter for zec here https://github.com/Coinomi/bip39, download it.

    Enter your seed words in "BIP39 recovery phrase", choose Zcash from Coin dropdown.

    Found your address and copy correspondent Private Key

    Use jaxx.io wallet, chrome plugin in my case (I've tried zcash4win wallet too, but no luck, got errors).

    Go to Tools->Transfer Paper wallet->Transfer ZEC Paper Wallet->Enter Private Key-> All my zec here.

    Transfer zec to exchange-> done

Thank you. Also another question does the ledger live resets itself and you have to re add the accounts again ?

[Rath_]

Thank you. Also another question does the ledger live resets itself and you have to re add the accounts again ?

In what situation would it reset? Accounts are detected automatically, even after wiping your Ledger and re-entering the same seed on a different device. Keep in mind that exposing your private key is dangerous and you should consider re-initializing your wallet again (generate a new seed).

[Princemachiavelli]

Thank you. Also another question does the ledger live resets itself and you have to re add the accounts again ?

In what situation would it reset? Accounts are detected automatically, even after wiping your Ledger and re-entering the same seed on a different device. Keep in mind that exposing your private key is dangerous and you should consider re-initializing your wallet again (generate a new seed).

The ledger USB doesn’t reset. It’s the ledger live that resets.

So what I do is I add the accounts that I have from my ledger USB to the ledger live. For some reason about 2 months later everything is deleted and I had to start over adding the accounts onto ledger live.

[HCP]

The ledger USB doesn’t reset. It’s the ledger live that resets.

So what I do is I add the accounts that I have from my ledger USB to the ledger live. For some reason about 2 months later everything is deleted and I had to start over adding the accounts onto ledger live.

The only reasons that I can think of that Ledger Live account data went missing from within the app are because:

1. The Ledger USB was wiped and setup with a new seed (and therefore new accounts/addresses)
2. The Ledger Live "wallet data" was not found or corrupted (ie. a new/different user account was being used, or the folder with Ledger Live database had been removed, or the Ledger Live database had become corrupted etc)

I opened my Ledger Live app for the first time in months today... and all my data was still there... even after I ran the update to 1.2.7... so I'm not sure what happened on your PC.

[Princemachiavelli]

The ledger USB doesn’t reset. It’s the ledger live that resets.

So what I do is I add the accounts that I have from my ledger USB to the ledger live. For some reason about 2 months later everything is deleted and I had to start over adding the accounts onto ledger live.

The only reasons that I can think of that Ledger Live account data went missing from within the app are because:

1. The Ledger USB was wiped and setup with a new seed (and therefore new accounts/addresses)
2. The Ledger Live "wallet data" was not found or corrupted (ie. a new/different user account was being used, or the folder with Ledger Live database had been removed, or the Ledger Live database had become corrupted etc)

I opened my Ledger Live app for the first time in months today... and all my data was still there... even after I ran the update to 1.2.7... so I'm not sure what happened on your PC.

I think another issue would be mining to the hardware wallet. Because I mine zcash and I think the issue here is the ledger live not able to synchronize to the mining transactions. I think this forced itself to wipe out. Because on the ledger USB I have has not wiped out but the ledger live wiped out

[Lucius]

I think another issue would be mining to the hardware wallet. Because I mine zcash and I think the issue here is the ledger live not able to synchronize to the mining transactions. I think this forced itself to wipe out. Because on the ledger USB I have has not wiped out but the ledger live wiped out

Problem with Zcash mining and HW is fully explained in second post, and you should not try to use Nano S for that purpose for now. Solution is to use some other wallet for receiving mining transaction and then send larger amounts of Zcash to Ledger Nano S.

You say that your Ledger device is up to date with firmware and you use latest Ledger Live, but be sure that you use latest Zcash app. Remove all app from your Ledger Live and then install first Bitcoin app and then Zcash app. I am not sure is this can help to see your Zcash balance in Ledger Live, but it is worth to try.

[Princemachiavelli]

I think another issue would be mining to the hardware wallet. Because I mine zcash and I think the issue here is the ledger live not able to synchronize to the mining transactions. I think this forced itself to wipe out. Because on the ledger USB I have has not wiped out but the ledger live wiped out

Problem with Zcash mining and HW is fully explained in second post, and you should not try to use Nano S for that purpose for now. Solution is to use some other wallet for receiving mining transaction and then send larger amounts of Zcash to Ledger Nano S.

You say that your Ledger device is up to date with firmware and you use latest Ledger Live, but be sure that you use latest Zcash app. Remove all app from your Ledger Live and then install first Bitcoin app and then Zcash app. I am not sure is this can help to see your Zcash balance in Ledger Live, but it is worth to try.

Yes the second post explains it but the particular reason for this was not synchronizing. But I didn’t realize how bad it is with ledger live wiping my account and forcing a start over. But then again I think also it’s a good thing this way I can change it up and start sending larger transactions to the ledger wallet.

Also the zcash app is up to date as well.

I think this problem also exist with any coin that’s being mined and put into the hardware wallet. I also did this mistake with bitcoin gold.

[Lucius]

Yes the second post explains it but the particular reason for this was not synchronizing. But I didn’t realize how bad it is with ledger live wiping my account and forcing a start over.

HCP explained the possible reasons for problem you have with Ledger Live, but even if it happens in some cases it's very easy to put everything back in place. Ledger Live need apps to show balance from coins (private keys) your have in your device, so you only need to install those apps again, it is maybe 2-3 min of work depending on the number of app you want to install.

However if this same problem occurs again, you will need to investigate possible causes of the problem. Maybe problem was just in Zcash, or Ledger Live data was somehow corrupted - after such situation clean install of desktop app (Ledger Live) would certainly be desirable option.

[satscraper]

Reviving this thread to not start the new one, as Ledger Live is still pretty popular among Ledger's users.

I recently came across the study made by the Moonlock research team. Saying I was alarmed doesn't even begin to cover it. While I was already aware that Ledger Live has been more than often the target for hackers, the given report highlights how advanced the techniques they use have become. Some of the latest Ledger Live clones became so advanced that have the power of stealing seed phrases and even draining entire wallets ^{which is next-level dangerous}.

Better to not use Ledger wallet and Ledger Live at all an give the mind to the better stuff.

[Lucius]

Some of the latest Ledger Live clones became so advanced that have the power of stealing seed phrases and even draining entire wallets ^{which is next-level dangerous}.
~snip~

If I understand correctly, the process of installing fake LL may be a bit more sophisticated, but the final step is still the same as before - convincing the user that they should enter their seed where they should never do so. If most people understood that they didn't need to enter their seed anywhere other than in a hardware wallet, then these types of attack attempts would be pretty pointless.

In any case, I agree that there are far more secure and advanced hardware wallets that are also air-gapped, so it's up to everyone to decide if they want to raise their level of protection to a higher level.

[satscraper]

Some of the latest Ledger Live clones became so advanced that have the power of stealing seed phrases and even draining entire wallets ^{which is next-level dangerous}.
~snip~

If I understand correctly, the process of installing fake LL may be a bit more sophisticated,

That's the whole point. The issue here is that users often believe their Ledger Live app ^{downloaded from the official source} remains genuine over time. However, malicious payload can silently replace the legitimate version with the cloned one. This fake version then tricks users into entering their SEED on html page that appears to be official. Inexperienced users are vulnerable to this kind of trick, as the clone looks identical to the real thing, making it difficult to spot the difference. Moreover,there are concerns that Ledger team have the means to extract SEED remotely. Given this, it wouldn’t be surprising if hackers eventually learn how to exploit this for their favor.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Moreover,there are concerns that Ledger team have the means to extract SEED remotely.

Just concerns?  I thought it was pretty well established that Ledger has got all of their customers' seed phrases, a fact which was revealed when they rolled out their Recover feature.

In any event, and aside from the fact that people should know better than to enter their seed phrase upon request from LL or any HW wallet software, savvy crypto holders probably shouldn't even be using Ledger devices anymore because of how shady the company has shown themselves to be.  There are plenty of excellent HW wallets on the market that I'd feel comfortable using in lieu of any Ledger device--there's just too much sketchiness and uncertainty involved with them, and it's just not worth the stress.

[Lucius]

~snip~
Inexperienced users are vulnerable to this kind of trick, as the clone looks identical to the real thing, making it difficult to spot the difference.

When I bought the LedgerX, I think the packaging had a warning about the seed in several world languages ​​- and I just looked at the packaging and there are 3 recovery sheets in it, each with a warning in English at the beginning, and in a total of 12 languages ​​- so even though it says "Confidential - Do not disclose", maybe they should have written "Do not type these words anywhere except in HW if you need recovery".

Moreover,there are concerns that Ledger team have the means to extract SEED remotely. Given this, it wouldn’t be surprising if hackers eventually learn how to exploit this for their favor.

I agree with @The Sceptical Chymist that there is no doubt about it - the only doubt is whether Ledger had access to every generated seed remotely or only to those devices where users purchased the Recovery option. If everything boils down to trust between the user and that company, then I claim that this trust has long since ceased to exist.

[satscraper]

Moreover,there are concerns that Ledger team have the means to extract SEED remotely.

Just concerns?  

They've admitted that they can do it ^{the power is definitely in their hands}. And yes, they do perform the action for users subscribed to their backup service. But whether they extend that same capability to all device owners remains an open question. As the saying goes, they’re not thieves until they’re caught. BTW, I gave up on their devices two years ago and trusted my BTC stash to Passport Core.