Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian - Merry Christmas to all!!!

[ATMD]

Those child molesting priests are examples of people who use religion as a front to cover their hidden motives, they do not represent theists in any way. In fact, I believe that they don't know or believe in God, for they would never dare to do such a thing right in front of God.

Theists are people who know that God is always in their presence, those priests are clearly atheists.

[af_newbie]

Those child molesting priests are examples of people who use religion as a front to cover their hidden motives, they do not represent theists in any way. In fact, I believe that they don't know or believe in God, for they would never dare to do such a thing right in front of God.

Theists are people who know that God is always in their presence, those priests are clearly atheists.

Aren't we all?

You are an atheist with respect to 2999+ Gods humans invented over the years.  Some of us are atheists with respect to one more God than you.

You don't believe in Osiris, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl or Mitra, do you?

[ATMD]

Aren't we all?

You are an atheist with respect to 2999+ Gods humans invented over the years.  Some of us are atheists with respect to one more God than you.

You don't believe in Osiris, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl or Mitra, do you?

This question has been answered by John Lennox in this interview

Time where he answered the question starts at around the 10:55 minute mark

Lennox is learnt in the study of ancient theology, I am not. He makes a clear differentiation between God the Creator and all those ancient gods.

[af_newbie]

Aren't we all?

You are an atheist with respect to 2999+ Gods humans invented over the years.  Some of us are atheists with respect to one more God than you.

You don't believe in Osiris, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl or Mitra, do you?

This question has been answered by John Lennox in this interview

Time where he answered the question starts at around the 09:55 minute mark

Lennox is learnt in the study of ancient theology, I am not. He makes a clear differentiation between God the Creator and all those ancient gods.

Look at you, you are running up the hills with your Jesus under your arm.  So now it is the creator, not God who will punish you in hell?

I thought you wanted to argue that you need religion or believe in God to be moral?

You are full of it like the rest of the apologetics.

Morality comes from the community, the society you grew up in.  Some of us are born with empathy, some of us learn it from our parents, our friends, other members of one's family.  Some of us end up breaking the moral rules regardless what some tombstone or a book says.

While others are good and moral people DESPITE what the scriptures say, i.e. own slaves, stone adulterers or kill gays etc.

So take your apologetic BS and shove it deep up your ass because that is where it belongs.

Be a good person, and stop being a moron.

[ATMD]

Look at you, you are running up the hills with your Jesus under your arm.  So now it is the creator, not God who will punish you in hell?

I thought you wanted to argue that you need religion or believe in God to be moral?

You are full of it like the rest of the apologetics.

Morality comes from the community, the society you grew up in.  Some of us are born with empathy, some of us learn it from our parents, our friends, other members of one's family.  Some of us end up breaking the moral rules regardless what some tombstone or a book says.

While others are good and moral people DESPITE what the scriptures say, i.e. own slaves, stone adulterers or kill gays etc.

So take your apologetic BS and shove it deep up your ass because that is where it belongs.

Be a good person, and stop being a moron.

I am not sure I understand the difference between God and the creator

To me, they are synonymous. God created the universe, some call him God, others call him the Supreme Creator, they are the same. I am not trying to shift anything.

I believe that morality is absolute, not relative. This word "empathy" is highly relative. A meat eater has no empathy for the chicken or the cow he is eating, is this empathy only applied for human beings?

[af_newbie]

Look at you, you are running up the hills with your Jesus under your arm.  So now it is the creator, not God who will punish you in hell?

I thought you wanted to argue that you need religion or believe in God to be moral?

You are full of it like the rest of the apologetics.

Morality comes from the community, the society you grew up in.  Some of us are born with empathy, some of us learn it from our parents, our friends, other members of one's family.  Some of us end up breaking the moral rules regardless what some tombstone or a book says.

While others are good and moral people DESPITE what the scriptures say, i.e. own slaves, stone adulterers or kill gays etc.

So take your apologetic BS and shove it deep up your ass because that is where it belongs.

Be a good person, and stop being a moron.

I am not sure I understand the difference between God and the creator

To me, they are synonymous. God created the universe, some call him God, others call him the Supreme Creator, they are the same. I am not trying to shift anything.

I believe that morality is absolute, not relative. This word "empathy" is also highly relative. A meat eater has no empathy for the chicken or the cow he is eating, is this empathy only applied for human beings?

When was last time you killed someone who worked on Saturday?  If you did not, you are the walking, breathing proof that morality is not absolute.  Full stop.

[ATMD]

God does not kill us for working on Sabbath. God loves us, why would he do that?

I do not believe in a God who murders people, promotes slavery, supports rape etc either 

[af_newbie]

God does not kill us for working on Sabbath. God loves us, why would he do that?

I do not believe in a God who murders people, promotes slavery, supports rape etc either  

Don't change the subject.  I said "you", not "God".

If the morality is absolute and true as provided by God in the Bible, you should be killing everyone who works on Saturday or is gay.

If you don't, you are either immoral or get your morality from somewhere else, i.e. your morality is not absolute.

Just admit that morality is not absolute and it does change over time.

When was the last time we burned someone at the stake for criticizing the church?  Why are we not doing it now?
When was the last time we delivered electroshocks to gay people?  Why are we not doing it now?

[CoinCube]

God does not kill us for working on Sabbath. God loves us, why would he do that?

I do not believe in a God who murders people, promotes slavery, supports rape etc either  

Don't change the subject.  I said "you", not "God".

If the morality is absolute and true as provided by God in the Bible, you should be killing everyone who works on Saturday or is gay.

If you don't, you are either immoral or get your morality from somewhere else, i.e. your morality is not absolute.

Just admit that morality is not absolute and it does change over time.

I would suggest instead that you consider admitting that morality is absolute and eternal.

Sin ultimately is just error. We often forget this and get confused by our own emotions and feelings about particular errors that upset us more then others or from having a strong desire for error.

[af_newbie]

God does not kill us for working on Sabbath. God loves us, why would he do that?

I do not believe in a God who murders people, promotes slavery, supports rape etc either  

Don't change the subject.  I said "you", not "God".

If the morality is absolute and true as provided by God in the Bible, you should be killing everyone who works on Saturday or is gay.

If you don't, you are either immoral or get your morality from somewhere else, i.e. your morality is not absolute.

Just admit that morality is not absolute and it does change over time.

I would suggest instead that you consider admitting that morality is absolute and eternal.

Sin ultimately is just error. We often forget this and get confused by our own emotions and feelings about particular errors that upset us more then others or from having a strong desire for error.

I will if you provide me with one absolute moral code.  Go ahead.  I give you 15 minutes.  Go.

[CoinCube]

I will if you provide me with one absolute moral code.  Go ahead.  I give you 15 minutes.  Go.

Immanuel Kant
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."

Jesus
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Hillel the Elder
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

Slightly varying accents all describing the same foundational absolute.

See: A Discussion on Superrationality

[mOgliE]

Immanuel Kant
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."

Jesus
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Hillel the Elder
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

Slightly varying accents all describing the same foundational absolute.

Hmm... You just litteraly saif that morality is relative...

Your sentences say "don't so to others what you don't want them to do to you". Which means each people will have a different definition of what should and should not be done as each person will consider something as acceptable or not...

Example: I consider ok to take parts of what's mine for the need of others. Some people do not consider it ok. Who is right here? Following your maxime no one is right or wrong, it just depends if you accept it or not.

[ATMD]

Don't change the subject.  I said "you", not "God".

If the morality is absolute and true as provided by God in the Bible, you should be killing everyone who works on Saturday or is gay.

If you don't, you are either immoral or get your morality from somewhere else, i.e. your morality is not absolute.

Just admit that morality is not absolute and it does change over time.

When was the last time we burned someone at the stake for criticizing the church?  Why are we not doing it now?
When was the last time we delivered electroshocks to gay people?  Why are we not doing it now?

I don't believe that I should be killing anyone for working on Saturday. Murder is immoral. Morality does not change over time, murder is always immoral and will always be.

Examples of absolute morality?
Do not commit murder
Do not steal
Do not lie
Do not cheat
Do not cause harm to others

These morals never change. Even a billion years from now, they remain true.

[mOgliE]

I don't believe that I should be killing anyone for working on Saturday. Murder is immoral. Morality does not change over time, murder is always immoral and will always be.

Examples of absolute morality?
Do not commit murder
Do not steal
Do not lie
Do not cheat
Do not cause harm to others

These morals never change. Even a billion years from now, they remain true.

Lol, thanks Captain Obvious. You might not have thought about that but moral is exactly like fogs. Of course when you're in the center it's quite obvious where you are, but when do you decide when you're out of the fog? Where is the border? Where is the limit?

Killing someone without reason is a crime, quite obvious thanks. Now what about killing someone to save two people? What about stealing the rich to feed the poor?

Real life example: You find someone in your house at night while your kids are sleeping. What is considered as ok per your moral code? Hitting him? Shooting him? Well moral here is blurry and always difficult to deal with.
If the guy is armed with a knife and seems looking for trouble, everyone will be ok with you shooting him and it will be considered as self defense. Now what if the guy is drunked and obviously just a student having a heavy party who made a stupid bet? You still have the right to be scared so what is ok?


Of course 98% of the cases are simple. The problem is with the 2% perticular cases. That's the ones difficult where moral isn't all white or black.

[ATMD]

I don't believe that I should be killing anyone for working on Saturday. Murder is immoral. Morality does not change over time, murder is always immoral and will always be.

Examples of absolute morality?
Do not commit murder
Do not steal
Do not lie
Do not cheat
Do not cause harm to others

These morals never change. Even a billion years from now, they remain true.

Lol, thanks Captain Obvious. You might not have thought about that but moral is exactly like fogs. Of course when you're in the center it's quite obvious where you are, but when do you decide when you're out of the fog? Where is the border? Where is the limit?

Killing someone without reason is a crime, quite obvious thanks. Now what about killing someone to save two people? What about stealing the rich to feed the poor?

Real life example: You find someone in your house at night while your kids are sleeping. What is considered as ok per your moral code? Hitting him? Shooting him? Well moral here is blurry and always difficult to deal with.
If the guy is armed with a knife and seems looking for trouble, everyone will be ok with you shooting him and it will be considered as self defense. Now what if the guy is drunked and obviously just a student having a heavy party who made a stupid bet? You still have the right to be scared so what is ok?


Of course 98% of the cases are simple. The problem is with the 2% perticular cases. That's the ones difficult where moral isn't all white or black.

Sorry m0gliE, I wasn't referring to your post at all. I was answering af_newbie's question for examples of absolute morality.

Self-defense is not murder, murder is premeditated attempt to take someone's life, absolutely immoral. No gray area.

[JSRAW]

There is no such thing absolute truth/morality, including the very statement itself. Everything changes according to timeline or circumstances.

[af_newbie]

I don't believe that I should be killing anyone for working on Saturday. Murder is immoral. Morality does not change over time, murder is always immoral and will always be.

Examples of absolute morality?
Do not commit murder
Do not steal
Do not lie
Do not cheat
Do not cause harm to others

These morals never change. Even a billion years from now, they remain true.

Lol, thanks Captain Obvious. You might not have thought about that but moral is exactly like fogs. Of course when you're in the center it's quite obvious where you are, but when do you decide when you're out of the fog? Where is the border? Where is the limit?

Killing someone without reason is a crime, quite obvious thanks. Now what about killing someone to save two people? What about stealing the rich to feed the poor?

Real life example: You find someone in your house at night while your kids are sleeping. What is considered as ok per your moral code? Hitting him? Shooting him? Well moral here is blurry and always difficult to deal with.
If the guy is armed with a knife and seems looking for trouble, everyone will be ok with you shooting him and it will be considered as self defense. Now what if the guy is drunked and obviously just a student having a heavy party who made a stupid bet? You still have the right to be scared so what is ok?


Of course 98% of the cases are simple. The problem is with the 2% perticular cases. That's the ones difficult where moral isn't all white or black.

Sorry m0gliE, I wasn't referring to your post at all. I was answering af_newbie's question for examples of absolute morality.

Self-defense is not murder, murder is premeditated attempt to take someone's life, absolutely immoral. No gray area.

So the Bible, Quran and Talmud are all wrong.  Thanks for agreeing.  Now, go burn these texts and try to be a better person than the people who wrote these books.

[JSRAW]

I don't believe that I should be killing anyone for working on Saturday. Murder is immoral. Morality does not change over time, murder is always immoral and will always be.

Examples of absolute morality?
Do not commit murder
Do not steal
Do not lie
Do not cheat
Do not cause harm to others

These morals never change. Even a billion years from now, they remain true.

Lol, thanks Captain Obvious. You might not have thought about that but moral is exactly like fogs. Of course when you're in the center it's quite obvious where you are, but when do you decide when you're out of the fog? Where is the border? Where is the limit?

Killing someone without reason is a crime, quite obvious thanks. Now what about killing someone to save two people? What about stealing the rich to feed the poor?

Real life example: You find someone in your house at night while your kids are sleeping. What is considered as ok per your moral code? Hitting him? Shooting him? Well moral here is blurry and always difficult to deal with.
If the guy is armed with a knife and seems looking for trouble, everyone will be ok with you shooting him and it will be considered as self defense. Now what if the guy is drunked and obviously just a student having a heavy party who made a stupid bet? You still have the right to be scared so what is ok?


Of course 98% of the cases are simple. The problem is with the 2% perticular cases. That's the ones difficult where moral isn't all white or black.

Sorry m0gliE, I wasn't referring to your post at all. I was answering af_newbie's question for examples of absolute morality.

Self-defense is not murder, murder is premeditated attempt to take someone's life, absolutely immoral. No gray area.

So the Bible, Quran and Talmud are all wrong.  Thanks for agreeing.  Now, go burn these texts and try to be a better person than the people who wrote these books.

Instead of burning why not cherry-pick every good thing from these texts? 

[af_newbie]

I will if you provide me with one absolute moral code.  Go ahead.  I give you 15 minutes.  Go.

Immanuel Kant
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."

What maxim is that?

Jesus
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Not objective, i.e. not absolute. That can really go out of hand.  The person who wrote it did not understand human psychology one bit.  Some of us are born psychopaths, some are narcissists, some of us are masochists, some of us lack empathy, some of us do not understand biology and animal suffering, including human suffering, some of us are not educated.  Do you see a problem?

Hillel the Elder
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."

Again, not objective.  What is hateful to one person might not be hateful to the other.

Dig deeper.

[af_newbie]

I don't believe that I should be killing anyone for working on Saturday. Murder is immoral. Morality does not change over time, murder is always immoral and will always be.

Examples of absolute morality?
Do not commit murder
Do not steal
Do not lie
Do not cheat
Do not cause harm to others

These morals never change. Even a billion years from now, they remain true.

Lol, thanks Captain Obvious. You might not have thought about that but moral is exactly like fogs. Of course when you're in the center it's quite obvious where you are, but when do you decide when you're out of the fog? Where is the border? Where is the limit?

Killing someone without reason is a crime, quite obvious thanks. Now what about killing someone to save two people? What about stealing the rich to feed the poor?

Real life example: You find someone in your house at night while your kids are sleeping. What is considered as ok per your moral code? Hitting him? Shooting him? Well moral here is blurry and always difficult to deal with.
If the guy is armed with a knife and seems looking for trouble, everyone will be ok with you shooting him and it will be considered as self defense. Now what if the guy is drunked and obviously just a student having a heavy party who made a stupid bet? You still have the right to be scared so what is ok?


Of course 98% of the cases are simple. The problem is with the 2% perticular cases. That's the ones difficult where moral isn't all white or black.

Sorry m0gliE, I wasn't referring to your post at all. I was answering af_newbie's question for examples of absolute morality.

Self-defense is not murder, murder is premeditated attempt to take someone's life, absolutely immoral. No gray area.

So the Bible, Quran and Talmud are all wrong.  Thanks for agreeing.  Now, go burn these texts and try to be a better person than the people who wrote these books.

Instead of burning why not cherry-pick every good thing from these texts? 

We already did that.  Modern secular laws.  We have extended these good bits based on our modern understanding of human psychology, crime and punishment.  People who wrote those texts would be pissed if they knew the moral code we follow today.

Point is, the morality is relative and is not absolute.