[Talk with Vitalik] Does ETH need transaction fee?

[Suyeah]

I always think it's unreasonable to have high transaction fee per transactions, and is researching about EOS's model: Account Registration fee + 0 transaction fee. I recently met Vitalik in a conference at HK, and tried to ask him about his POV.


Me: When we want to make large number of transactions, it is almost free of charge. For example, if I make transaction with 1000 RMB on Alipay, nothing will be charged. But on Ethereum network, we need to pay gas for each transaction and contract execution

Vitalik Buterin: Yes, you are right. And this is why we think scalability is quite important. No matter we take shading or off-chain technology to improve the scalability, it will reduce the gas to some point when the transaction fee is low enough.

Me: However, there will be some cost?

Vitalik Buterin：If the transaction fee is as low as 0.00043 USD, does anybody care?

Me：Regarding to this question, EOS takes the mode of “deposit membership fee”, how do you think about it?

Vitalik Buterin： I have to criticize EOS about this! It will actually cause large number of nasty problems if you only need to deposit money at the very beginning, but don’t pay for any transaction later.

Me：What kind of problem? Can you make an example?

Vitalik Buterin：First of all, you actually pay even with the mode of “deposit membership fee”. Before i saw the statistics, if you compare Ethereum with EOS, the result is that you need to pay 15,000 USD on Ethereum, but 100,000 USD membership fee on EOS, which is much higher.

Secondly, users don’t know how many transactions they will make in the future. For example, it is impossible to know you will make 3 or 30 transactions per month. On Ethereum network, users pay gas when they make transaction, which is under their control. But for EOS, people need to pay “membership fee”, and also can’t pay with the frequency as they like.Don’t you think this is kind of taxation?

Thirdly, because blockchain resources are limited, if we choose to bid for that, undoubtedly it will be the best distribution method.




Frankly I like EOS's model more, what is your point of views towards ETH transaction fee?

[sixexgames]

Did you publish this interview somewhere? Personally, I like the Ethereum model, but maybe that's just because it's what I'm used to and I don't send THAT MANY transactions to want to pay a big upfront cost.

[batang_bitcoin]

I'm an ethereum supporter and investor and I'm not on EOS.

I'm not sure with that "deposit membership fee" model with EOS but what's good with its innovation. I see a lot of projects that are building their own resource through EOS' network. About the transaction fee, he's correct about the low fee that's under one dollar.

[Black Coffee]

finally I understand and from the conversations that you do with vitality, I personally prefer ethereum. so we only pay for every transaction that we do and we don't need any fees outside of the transaction.

[Suyeah]

Well, I am with Vitalik that Ethereum uses cost for allocating the limited resources. But that actually caused barrier for many Dapps, say whenever I am playing a game, I need to pay money everytime I take an action. People will never want it.

[batang_bitcoin]

Well, I am with Vitalik that Ethereum uses cost for allocating the limited resources. But that actually caused barrier for many Dapps, say whenever I am playing a game, I need to pay money everytime I take an action. People will never want it.

I don't like that as well.

Doing something for modifying or taking an action that requires you pay for gas fee, well that's different thing of paying a transaction fee of transfers.

[Hanebel]

I have no problems with ETH's transaction fee. It is so negligible to consider it. And yes, I agree, we don't know how often or how seldom we transact with Ethereum network.

[shinratensei_]

I'm an ethereum supporter and investor and I'm not on EOS.

I'm not sure with that "deposit membership fee" model with EOS but what's good with its innovation. I see a lot of projects that are building their own resource through EOS' network. About the transaction fee, he's correct about the low fee that's under one dollar.

I guess that membership has the same mean as to become a node or a delegate. If you wanna be a delegation and you must pay some fees. This what i can get from OP.
Whatever about how much fees as long as it cost under 10 cents and that's not a big problem.

[BitcoinHodler]

ETH model simply is not going to work because it is quite a limiting model based on blockchain and it will suffer. the most obvious thing is the scaling problems that it has always had which is showing themselves in fees. without fees a blockchain based token like ether is going to be spammed to death in less than a week and there is nothing they can do about it.

if they go off-chain solution then there is no point in ETH to even exist anymore because bitcoin already has off-chain solutions for a much more powerful and more secure smart contracts already in place and it is on top of bitcoin so that is a big perk right there.

[tuthienloc92bk]

Thank you for your share. I think Vitalik can develop Ethereum to become faster and expandable. With the number of projects adopting Ethereum, less transaction fees will incentivize them alot.

[cryptogeek101]

I always think it's unreasonable to have high transaction fee per transactions, and is researching about EOS's model: Account Registration fee + 0 transaction fee. I recently met Vitalik in a conference at HK, and tried to ask him about his POV.


Me: When we want to make large number of transactions, it is almost free of charge. For example, if I make transaction with 1000 RMB on Alipay, nothing will be charged. But on Ethereum network, we need to pay gas for each transaction and contract execution

Vitalik Buterin: Yes, you are right. And this is why we think scalability is quite important. No matter we take shading or off-chain technology to improve the scalability, it will reduce the gas to some point when the transaction fee is low enough.

Me: However, there will be some cost?

Vitalik Buterin：If the transaction fee is as low as 0.00043 USD, does anybody care?

Me：Regarding to this question, EOS takes the mode of “deposit membership fee”, how do you think about it?

Vitalik Buterin： I have to criticize EOS about this! It will actually cause large number of nasty problems if you only need to deposit money at the very beginning, but don’t pay for any transaction later.

Me：What kind of problem? Can you make an example?

Vitalik Buterin：First of all, you actually pay even with the mode of “deposit membership fee”. Before i saw the statistics, if you compare Ethereum with EOS, the result is that you need to pay 15,000 USD on Ethereum, but 100,000 USD membership fee on EOS, which is much higher.

Secondly, users don’t know how many transactions they will make in the future. For example, it is impossible to know you will make 3 or 30 transactions per month. On Ethereum network, users pay gas when they make transaction, which is under their control. But for EOS, people need to pay “membership fee”, and also can’t pay with the frequency as they like.Don’t you think this is kind of taxation?

Thirdly, because blockchain resources are limited, if we choose to bid for that, undoubtedly it will be the best distribution method.




Frankly I like EOS's model more, what is your point of views towards ETH transaction fee?

I think to me the whole thing boils down on the issue of scalability for the Ethereum blockchain because with a low comparative transaction fee we will all be comfortable with the process.

[Suyeah]

The core problem is not if the transaction big or small, it's about bringing blockchain into mainstream.

For example, you gave your grandpa a game account to play a game on Ethereum, and every actions need to use smart contract.

But she doesn't have ETH because she know nothing about blockchain, so she can never play the game unless she learns how to buy ETH on exchange, how to use wallet etc.


But with an account which dosen't require transaction, she can use DAPP without any knowledge about blockchain.

[Suyeah]

When we talking about when Bull, I think bringing more users in is the key.

[Suyeah]

Did you publish this interview somewhere? Personally, I like the Ethereum model, but maybe that's just because it's what I'm used to and I don't send THAT MANY transactions to want to pay a big upfront cost.

Yes I also published that on Medium, here is the link

https://medium.com/blockark-conversation-talk-to-vitalik-from/blockark-conversation-talk-to-vitalik-from-ethereum-to-yahoo-a250e7d31f6b

[martina14]

Me: However, there will be some cost?

Vitalik Buterin：If the transaction fee is as low as 0.00043 USD, does anybody care?

This is always takes place in the community. cryptocurrency is way cheaper than FIAT transfer to any country.
Though it needs to have a good amount before we can't feel the amount of gas we are paying.
Yes we will care on the 0.00043 if we are just paying 0.005USD
But still this is superb if we are talking about USD for more than 5.

[melomanskiy]

But the Buterin is right in the question of the deposit membership fee. We do not know how many transactions we will make. In my opinion, it is better to pay for the transaction after the fact than to pay the membership fee and in the future make a couple of transactions.

[sehoon]

I really support Ethereum's model. He's actually completely right about the gas fee. Like it is not really a big deal for me since it is really cheap and everyone can deal with that very little amount.

[eternalgloom]

Pretty interesting actually, I had no idea that you'd have to pay that much to become a block producer on EOS.
I've been largely ignoring most of the news regarding EOS, just because it's not a coin that I'm interested in.

I do think Vitalik is right, if the transaction costs are negligible, than no-one would bat an eye at those.

Quick question for you, why are you so interested in EOS?
Doesn't it bother you that block producers can basically reverse transactions?

[bitmover]

I always think it's unreasonable to have high transaction fee per transactions, and is researching about EOS's model: Account Registration fee + 0 transaction fee.

I don't know exactly how eos work, but ethereum needs transactions fee to prevent ddos attack.

Ethereum is supposed to be fully decentralized. Their Dapps, once running, cannot be stopped.
As a world computer, where no one can click "reboot" charging a fee for everything that is done is a way to prevent world resources to be wasted, as well as protecting the network from attacks (like a program that would just run over and over again to spam the network)

[JCviggen]

I really support Ethereum's model. He's actually completely right about the gas fee. Like it is not really a big deal for me since it is really cheap and everyone can deal with that very little amount.

it does not matter that this is a small amount, but "why do we have to pay anything at all?" We must fight for no comissions at all.