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Author Topic: When traditional markets fall, alternative markets fall harder  (Read 516 times)
Vilrex
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December 26, 2018, 04:34:11 AM
 #1

If you compare the dow jones, or the S&P 500 to the bitcoin chart you can notice that the stock's have been in a rally since 2009 right when bitcoin was just created, this means that the crypto currency space has never experienced a stock bear market, because stocks have been bullish since 2009 and right now they are starting to fall and I believe there will be a bigger crash than the one that happened in 2008-2009, based on this we can say that all the thousand's of bitcoin "deaths" where just mere corrections, like when bitcoin went from 30$ to 2$ when it went from 1200$ to 200$ and now from 20k to 3k all of the previous corrections where with a bullish stock market, but now the stock market for the first time since 2009 is beginning to plunge and is taking cryptos down with it, something that hasn't happened in the previous btc "deaths"

This makes me believe that this time crypto may never come back at all, like when tulips crashed in the 1600's or when the thousand of .com stocks never recovered (like pets.com) etc this means that this time bitcoin and other crypto currencies may NEVER come back to a ATH like it has happened before, what we learnt from previous bubbles caused by a new emerging technology eg the .com bubble with the rise of the internet is that the majority of companies (this time coins) die off and I believe right now bitcoin is so old, rusty with high tx times and high fees that it is possible it may become the MySpace of crypto, having said this it is also really posible that cryptos stop existing at all, because there are coins that really don't need a blockchain and are just pump ICO'S that have no real purpose, the only thing that its left is the blockchain technology by itself that dosnt really need to have a token with value attached to work, the world could adopt the blockchain technology without the need to have a pump token attached to it.

this is my opinion right now, I think blockchain technology is here to stay but I put into a debate if crypto tokens will be here to stay.
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December 26, 2018, 12:41:25 PM
 #2

The main issue in this regard with the crypto market is that the only channel to investing is through FIAT such as USD. If there's an economic crash in the US and people try to cut their investments then there will be less dollars to flow in to crypto. Within crypto there would likely be no the same struggles, that's why low cap alts that only seem to trade BTC/alt don't have too much fluctuation in times like this.

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December 26, 2018, 12:41:30 PM
 #3

The previous btc price crashes were due to the crypto market being very small and very manipulated.
Now the market is still manipulated,but it's way harder than before.Bitcoin isn't old and rusty.BTC transactions aren't that expensive.All the comparisons between bitcoin and myspace,shitty dot-com companies and tulips are nonsense.Bitcoin will recover,because the crypto whales will pump it again.  
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December 26, 2018, 01:06:56 PM
 #4

ten years crypto survives that is still young for a product, there is still a lot of potential that can be produced, so you are wrong if you say that cripto is outdated, it really feels very difficult bitcoin prices can reach the highest price again like in late 2017, I am sure that bitcoin can survive, it is incomplete if blockchain technology is separate from crypto, both of which will still exist because both of them can still fulfill what is needed by today's society

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December 26, 2018, 01:18:45 PM
 #5

Bitcoin isn't just any tech,its a well laid down one that survived even when other cryptocurrencies prior to it couldn't,yeah it's volatile and we all know it,sometimes it's volatility could take it to rock bottom but it tends to spring up one more time
Relating it to the stocks with no evidence seems untrue to me, bitcoins have had previous bears and according to you the stocks were bullish then,if they usually went hand in hand then the bitcoin and the stocks ought to be experiencing the same market situation since the bitcoin came on scene,the only relationship between the bitcoin and the stocks this year is that in general this year has been bad for all investors market.

The blockchain technology definitely is going to be adopted worldwide and is here to stay just like you said, but it's doing so with the bitcoin
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December 26, 2018, 01:37:35 PM
 #6

Your assumption will only be true if and only if the stock market won't never be back to being bullish again which I doubt will happen. All this phases including the 10 year bull run of the stock market are just cycles that is bound to happen again, market phases like this are only happening in a long period but it doesn't mean we are stuck in a bearish market for all eternity. Just so you know even if we are in the bear market the gains this cryptocurrencies are yielding are all outperforming stocks in the market making it more appealing to be traded that is why prices are so volatile as a lot of people are taking profit out from it.

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December 26, 2018, 06:49:54 PM
 #7

Are we really sure about this ? I mean stocks fell as hard as they have in over 10 years but we see crypto market at the same time which has been quite steady even increased recently. Of course in 2018, there was a huge drop in price but most of it was at the time when stock markets were stable and not falling, if we are only taking the part where stock markets started dropping than since that day to this day stock markets clearly fell a lot harder than stocks.

This tells us clearly that when stocks fall it doesn't affect crypto at all, not in a good way nor not in a bad way. Just becomes irrelevant after a point. Also consider the fact that bitcoin and crypto has become quite global and not just some american investment type so nasdaq could drop or not but it doesn't change anything in the world of crypto since it is more global.


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December 26, 2018, 07:07:52 PM
 #8

Bitcoin has been steadily dropping for most of 2018, amd the stock crash was just reported very recently.

And there is a very credible explanation for the recent large dip in the bitcoin market, and this was due to loss in miners.
The stock crash could have an effect, but it's not the principal factors and there is no basis to claim BTC may not rise again.

The main issue in this regard with the crypto market is that the only channel to investing is through FIAT such as USD.

I read about a football club, which opted to pay its employees using cryptocurrency, if this could be adopted by more organizations. It would boost adoption and would also separate the stock and cryptocurrency market.
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December 26, 2018, 08:00:01 PM
 #9

I'm not surprised by other people's judgments, when the bitcoin price drops sharply then the bitcoin's said to be dead, but when the bitcoin growth signal comes with a better price, they argue that bitcoin is alive again. So the death of bitcoin's never permanent, and this only applies temporarily just the same as the decline that is happening at the moment, it's only temporary.

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December 26, 2018, 08:01:39 PM
 #10

Your assumption will only be true if and only if the stock market won't never be back to being bullish again which I doubt will happen. All this phases including the 10 year bull run of the stock market are just cycles that is bound to happen again, market phases like this are only happening in a long period but it doesn't mean we are stuck in a bearish market for all eternity. Just so you know even if we are in the bear market the gains this cryptocurrencies are yielding are all outperforming stocks in the market making it more appealing to be traded that is why prices are so volatile as a lot of people are taking profit out from it.
Theres no such market that would able to retain for bearish runs. There would be always price reversals or bull run.I don't see a reason why stocks and crypto would be compared nor connected.
Each market do have its cycle but same as being said there are still people who do make money on crypto market since they do saw that earning percentage and opportunities is way better than on stocks.



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December 27, 2018, 03:59:50 PM
 #11

The main issue in this regard with the crypto market is that the only channel to investing is through FIAT such as USD.

I read about a football club, which opted to pay its employees using cryptocurrency, if this could be adopted by more organizations. It would boost adoption and would also separate the stock and cryptocurrency market.

It would be something of a start, the crypto market doesn't need to be separated from the stock market, that is already largely the case, it needs to be separated from FIAT. Paying employees is a start but having places they can actually spend their funds and it be beneficial for them is when real adoption will come.

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December 27, 2018, 06:28:12 PM
 #12

I'm not surprised by other people's judgments, when the bitcoin price drops sharply then the bitcoin's said to be dead, but when the bitcoin growth signal comes with a better price, they argue that bitcoin is alive again. So the death of bitcoin's never permanent, and this only applies temporarily just the same as the decline that is happening at the moment, it's only temporary.
I read some article that bitcoin was died 10 or 30 times since it was created,the word dead denotes how many times the prices fell too bearish not considerable time so when this happen the people will start to say bitcoin is died but later when the prices increase they will forget about it and start predicting the prices for the next months and year this is just human behaviour so don't get much of it which can confuse us.

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January 01, 2019, 01:40:02 PM
 #13

If you compare the dow jones, or the S&P 500 to the bitcoin chart you can notice that the stock's have been in a rally since 2009 right when bitcoin was just created, this means that the crypto currency space has never experienced a stock bear market, because stocks have been bullish since 2009 and right now they are starting to fall and I believe there will be a bigger crash than the one that happened in 2008-2009, based on this we can say that all the thousand's of bitcoin "deaths" where just mere corrections, like when bitcoin went from 30$ to 2$ when it went from 1200$ to 200$ and now from 20k to 3k all of the previous corrections where with a bullish stock market, but now the stock market for the first time since 2009 is beginning to plunge and is taking cryptos down with it, something that hasn't happened in the previous btc "deaths"

This makes me believe that this time crypto may never come back at all, like when tulips crashed in the 1600's or when the thousand of .com stocks never recovered (like pets.com) etc this means that this time bitcoin and other crypto currencies may NEVER come back to a ATH like it has happened before, what we learnt from previous bubbles caused by a new emerging technology eg the .com bubble with the rise of the internet is that the majority of companies (this time coins) die off and I believe right now bitcoin is so old, rusty with high tx times and high fees that it is possible it may become the MySpace of crypto, having said this it is also really posible that cryptos stop existing at all, because there are coins that really don't need a blockchain and are just pump ICO'S that have no real purpose, the only thing that its left is the blockchain technology by itself that dosnt really need to have a token with value attached to work, the world could adopt the blockchain technology without the need to have a pump token attached to it.

this is my opinion right now, I think blockchain technology is here to stay but I put into a debate if crypto tokens will be here to stay.

It is also seen to crypto if Bitcoin falls then other altcoins falls. As I see it, altcoins only tends to follow Bitcoin for their preferences. Otherwise, some of altcoins go up.
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January 01, 2019, 07:04:22 PM
 #14

Agreed that we never have seen a bearish stock market condition yet, so I think it's quite wrong to assume that the alternative markets--in this case the cryptomarket--would fall so hard than its stock counterpaarts. Experts are actually clinging on the assumption that bitcoin and crypto would excel when traditional assets fail to push forward, as cryptoassets would be seen as hedges should there be another financial crisis in the making.

 
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January 02, 2019, 11:07:24 AM
 #15

I'm not surprised by other people's judgments, when the bitcoin price drops sharply then the bitcoin's said to be dead, but when the bitcoin growth signal comes with a better price, they argue that bitcoin is alive again. So the death of bitcoin's never permanent, and this only applies temporarily just the same as the decline that is happening at the moment, it's only temporary.
I read some article that bitcoin was died 10 or 30 times since it was created,the word dead denotes how many times the prices fell too bearish not considerable time so when this happen the people will start to say bitcoin is died but later when the prices increase they will forget about it and start predicting the prices for the next months and year this is just human behaviour so don't get much of it which can confuse us.
Something that we have basically heard over and over again all these years and we will never stop hearing possibly until maybe we start seeing bitcoin being used in real life. Like you said, it is just human behavior and a normal thing for people to drift and make assumptions based on the conditions of a market.

The crypto market was already on huge correction while the stock market was still growing until recently, and I see no way the two are connected unless by just basic assumptions of someone who just want to come up with another reason to experience a crypto market death and even if they are connected, I really would not see how at this stage, investors would not be looking for where next to feed on and this looks like a pretty good market for that course. While people are thinking of a dead market, this might just be a long year of accumulation.
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January 02, 2019, 12:26:39 PM
 #16

If you compare the dow jones, or the S&P 500 to the bitcoin chart you can notice that the stock's have been in a rally since 2009 right when bitcoin was just created, this means that the crypto currency space has never experienced a stock bear market, because stocks have been bullish since 2009 and right now they are starting to fall and I believe there will be a bigger crash than the one that happened in 2008-2009, based on this we can say that all the thousand's of bitcoin "deaths" where just mere corrections, like when bitcoin went from 30$ to 2$ when it went from 1200$ to 200$ and now from 20k to 3k all of the previous corrections where with a bullish stock market, but now the stock market for the first time since 2009 is beginning to plunge and is taking cryptos down with it, something that hasn't happened in the previous btc "deaths"

This makes me believe that this time crypto may never come back at all, like when tulips crashed in the 1600's or when the thousand of .com stocks never recovered (like pets.com) etc this means that this time bitcoin and other crypto currencies may NEVER come back to a ATH like it has happened before, what we learnt from previous bubbles caused by a new emerging technology eg the .com bubble with the rise of the internet is that the majority of companies (this time coins) die off and I believe right now bitcoin is so old, rusty with high tx times and high fees that it is possible it may become the MySpace of crypto, having said this it is also really posible that cryptos stop existing at all, because there are coins that really don't need a blockchain and are just pump ICO'S that have no real purpose, the only thing that its left is the blockchain technology by itself that dosnt really need to have a token with value attached to work, the world could adopt the blockchain technology without the need to have a pump token attached to it.

this is my opinion right now, I think blockchain technology is here to stay but I put into a debate if crypto tokens will be here to stay.
Cryptocurrency is different from that, there is connection between Bitcoin and the real market or stock market, whatever it is being called. Crypto market is unreliable of anything, that’s why it can be manipulated and it is highly volatile. Cryptocurrency price is based on the rate of supply and demand for it. When people starts to invest their funds, the price will also start to go up.
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January 02, 2019, 01:10:01 PM
 #17

If you compare the dow jones, or the S&P 500 to the bitcoin chart you can notice that the stock's have been in a rally since 2009 right when bitcoin was just created, this means that the crypto currency space has never experienced a stock bear market, because stocks have been bullish since 2009 and right now they are starting to fall and I believe there will be a bigger crash than the one that happened in 2008-2009, based on this we can say that all the thousand's of bitcoin "deaths" where just mere corrections, like when bitcoin went from 30$ to 2$ when it went from 1200$ to 200$ and now from 20k to 3k all of the previous corrections where with a bullish stock market, but now the stock market for the first time since 2009 is beginning to plunge and is taking cryptos down with it, something that hasn't happened in the previous btc "deaths"

This makes me believe that this time crypto may never come back at all, like when tulips crashed in the 1600's or when the thousand of .com stocks never recovered (like pets.com) etc this means that this time bitcoin and other crypto currencies may NEVER come back to a ATH like it has happened before, what we learnt from previous bubbles caused by a new emerging technology eg the .com bubble with the rise of the internet is that the majority of companies (this time coins) die off and I believe right now bitcoin is so old, rusty with high tx times and high fees that it is possible it may become the MySpace of crypto, having said this it is also really posible that cryptos stop existing at all, because there are coins that really don't need a blockchain and are just pump ICO'S that have no real purpose, the only thing that its left is the blockchain technology by itself that dosnt really need to have a token with value attached to work, the world could adopt the blockchain technology without the need to have a pump token attached to it.

this is my opinion right now, I think blockchain technology is here to stay but I put into a debate if crypto tokens will be here to stay.
Cryptocurrency is different from that, there is connection between Bitcoin and the real market or stock market, whatever it is being called. Crypto market is unreliable of anything, that’s why it can be manipulated and it is highly volatile. Cryptocurrency price is based on the rate of supply and demand for it. When people starts to invest their funds, the price will also start to go up.
indeed, because pure prices are formed from demand and supply, it is used by whales to manipulate it, on the one hand the existing bitcoiner, not much compared to the entire population of the world, but how later when many people use it, I don't think it's easy to manipulate using the current method

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January 02, 2019, 01:13:33 PM
 #18

Bitcoin has experienced several bear markets including ones that last for over a year. In fact the one we just suffered from and are still suffering from has been for longer than a year. There is a slight correlation between the two so hopefully when the s&p makes a comeback so will bitcoin

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January 02, 2019, 01:26:03 PM
 #19

I don't think that this inevitable death you are talking about will happen to Bitcoin just because we are somehow in a recession with other markets. Market cycles like this are bound to happen and the cryptocurrency market being a much weaker market compared to the stock market is just merely coincidental brought to us by the crazy price jump we had last December 2017 which causes us a massive sell-off waiting to happen. The cryptocurrency market is already a established market and I just don't see the whole market going down because the stock market is bearish right now.

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January 02, 2019, 03:18:49 PM
 #20

This is not always true and solely depends on region.

Take for example Venezuela or other problematic regions. When their economics are collapsing, the Bitcoin price is bulling and the 'local' Bitcoin price is skyrocketing. I think if we see another 2008 like crisis, the Bitcoin will hit new AHT very very quickly.

 
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