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Author Topic: May tax ba ang Cryptocurrency?  (Read 2846 times)
Bttzed03
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August 19, 2019, 04:56:04 PM
Merited by darklus123 (1)
 #81

This topic is worth reviving/bumping.

@PinoyCash, you seem to be the most knowledgeable about Philippine Tax on this thread, why not create a more informative and comprehensive topic? A lot of commenters are not reading your good responses here.


Base sa pagkakaintindi ko, wala pang tax sa ngayon ang cryptocurrencies.
Ganito yan, hindi porket tahimik pa o wala pang malinaw na guideline ang BIR tungkol dito eh ibig sabihin wala ng tax. Kung kumita ka dahil sa pag-trade, pag-mina, pag-bounty, pagsali sa signature campaigns, maari pa din mapatawan ng buwis yung mga kinita mo. May iba-ibang klase ng buwis na pwede ipataw depende sa kung paano ka kumita.


I consult this thing sa isang retired judge, ang sinagot nya sa akin is ganito.. as a cryptocurrency wala but kapag ito ay ipinapalit na natin sa peso, this is considered as kita so ito ay may karampatang buwis.
This is probably because Cash basis ang tax system dito. Sa ngayon, fiat pa lang ang kinikilalang cash.
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August 19, 2019, 05:25:58 PM
 #82

This topic is worth reviving/bumping.
Indeed it is. Pero I just want to share my experience sa may barangay namin. Humingi kasi ako ng barangay clearance for verification para sa coins noon. And then, they are asking for the reason why I'm getting a barangay clearance. I told them a long story about sa verification. And then, may nabanggit dun yung barangay representative na, yang mga trading trading na yan kase, walang tax yan eh. Parang freelancer. Somewhat ganyan yung sinabi. I don't know if this should be what we follow pero ang sabi ni pinoycash all income is taxable which is true naman. Pero di rin kase stable ang kitaan dito eh. Minsan pa may mga sumasideline lang dito gamit yung forum.




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Bttzed03
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August 19, 2019, 05:44:53 PM
 #83

This topic is worth reviving/bumping.
Indeed it is. Pero I just want to share my experience sa may barangay namin. Humingi kasi ako ng barangay clearance for verification para sa coins noon. And then, they are asking for the reason why I'm getting a barangay clearance. I told them a long story about sa verification. And then, may nabanggit dun yung barangay representative na, yang mga trading trading na yan kase, walang tax yan eh. Parang freelancer. Somewhat ganyan yung sinabi. I don't know if this should be what we follow pero ang sabi ni pinoycash all income is taxable which is true naman. Pero di rin kase stable ang kitaan dito eh. Minsan pa may mga sumasideline lang dito gamit yung forum.
I'm not underestimating the knowledge of that barangay representative but her knowledge on Philippine taxation may be lacking. Hindi parehas ang classification ng trader sa freelancer.

To be more accurate, all income are taxable unless may specific provision na tax-exempt siya (may tinatawag tayo na non-taxable income). Wala pa naman nilabas ang BIR na tax-exempt ang kinikita natin sa crypto-related activities.
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August 20, 2019, 12:46:08 AM
 #84

Sana magkaroon tayo ng concrete procedure on how to file taxes with crypto kasi sa US, nag-uumpisa na sila maghabol sa mga tax evaders. lol

Quote
By the end of August, an estimated 10,000 taxpayers will receive letters from the IRS warning them that they may owe back taxes on unreported cryptocurrency earnings. While it might not be immediately obvious, you must include cryptocurrency earnings when you file federal taxes. As with tax evasion for traditional currency, anyone convicted of evading crypto taxes could face up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.

In a press release, IRS Commissioner Chuck Rettig said:

"Taxpayers should take these letters very seriously by reviewing their tax filings and when appropriate, amend past returns and pay back taxes, interest and penalties. The IRS is expanding our efforts involving virtual currency, including increased use of data analytics. We are focused on enforcing the law and helping taxpayers fully understand and meet their obligations."

The IRS considers cryptocurrency taxable just like any other property transaction. If you're paid in crypto by an employer, your earnings are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes. If you earn cryptocurrency as an independent contractor, you'll have to file a 1099. If you sell crypto, you could have to pay capital gains tax, and if you're mining, that should be reported in your gross income. While cryptocurrency may have once felt cutting edge, getting a letter from the IRS stating that you owe back taxes makes it automatically less cool.
~Source
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August 20, 2019, 04:49:57 PM
 #85

I'm not underestimating the knowledge of that barangay representative but her knowledge on Philippine taxation may be lacking. Hindi parehas ang classification ng trader sa freelancer.

To be more accurate, all income are taxable unless may specific provision na tax-exempt siya (may tinatawag tayo na non-taxable income). Wala pa naman nilabas ang BIR na tax-exempt ang kinikita natin sa crypto-related activities.
Tama ka dyan. Pero, wala kasing specific guidelines para sa atin, and sa traders if may tax ba talaga to. Pero, sana to clear things out sana maglabas si BIR ng guidelines regarding trading in exchanges, tutal di na naman mangmang ang Pinas sa mga ganitong uri ng transaction. 




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August 20, 2019, 09:43:58 PM
 #86

Kung sa mga mataas ang kita maaari pero kung tayo na maliliit lang ang kinikita gaya ko siguro dapat super liit lang if ever na magkaroon ng tax dito sa Pilipinas. Pero hindi pa ba sapat ang mga tax na binabayaran ng mga company na gumagamit ng bitcoin siguro naman like coins.ph ay may tax or permit silang binabayaran at doon pa lang ay okay na at hindi na sila maghahabol.
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August 20, 2019, 10:54:48 PM
 #87

I'm not underestimating the knowledge of that barangay representative but her knowledge on Philippine taxation may be lacking. Hindi parehas ang classification ng trader sa freelancer.

To be more accurate, all income are taxable unless may specific provision na tax-exempt siya (may tinatawag tayo na non-taxable income). Wala pa naman nilabas ang BIR na tax-exempt ang kinikita natin sa crypto-related activities.
Tama ka dyan. Pero, wala kasing specific guidelines para sa atin, and sa traders if may tax ba talaga to. Pero, sana to clear things out sana maglabas si BIR ng guidelines regarding trading in exchanges, tutal di na naman mangmang ang Pinas sa mga ganitong uri ng transaction. 
Madalas ang BIR kapag super laki ng kinikita mo sigurado ako hahabulin ka niyan at kailangan mo talagang magtax dahil baka mafreeze ang account mo sa banko ganyan ginagawa nila. Pero pasalamat pa rin tayo dahil hindi pa rin sila naglalabas ng order na kailangang magbayad ng tax ang mga nagbibitcoin dito sa Pilipinas.
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August 20, 2019, 11:24:00 PM
 #88

Kung sa mga mataas ang kita maaari pero kung tayo na maliliit lang ang kinikita gaya ko siguro dapat super liit lang if ever na magkaroon ng tax dito sa Pilipinas. Pero hindi pa ba sapat ang mga tax na binabayaran ng mga company na gumagamit ng bitcoin siguro naman like coins.ph ay may tax or permit silang binabayaran at doon pa lang ay okay na at hindi na sila maghahabol.
Hopefully they will not anymore go after our earning in crypto because every time we cash out our income to php we pay for the big charges, it's coins.ph that are making a lot of money from us, so the government should increase their tax on them.

It's very complicated for us to report our income in crypto as the value fluctuates, I'm thinking of a tax like "VAT" format where every time we spend we are already paying a tax on it, so same with cashing out in local exchange, they charge us, that should be our tax, or maybe if the government are still not satisfied, they just add a tax during conversion so we don't have to report individually.

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August 21, 2019, 01:42:01 AM
 #89

@Bttzed03, thank you so much for bringing this topic up.

According to National Internal Revenue code "Lahat ng income galing man sa kahit na anong klaseng legal na paraan ay taxable."

Hindi nga masyadong klaro ang binigay na laws ng BIR subalit ayon sa kanilang pamunuan na ang pag tatax sa crypto income ay naka depende sa kung papano kinlasify ng BIR ang iyong bitcoin transaction. Pde itong maging capital tax gains or income tax.

But then again malaking part ng pag consider sa iyong possible tax yung tax reform. As long as you are gaining not more than 20,000 pesos monthly . You are not liable to pay your "Income Tax" in accordance to law. At when it comes to capital gains tax I will summarize it for everyone to atleast get an idea.

You are entitled to pay capital tax gains if:
-Binenta mo yung crypto asset mo
-Bumili ka ng producto gamit ang iyong asset.
Yan lng nalalaman ko sa ngayon.

I think this article is worth reading para naman ma intidihan nyo kahit papano.

https://philippines.bc.events/news/taxation-of-cryptocurrencies-in-the-philippines-how-are-virtual-currencies-regulated-93106

Ito din yung draft ng BSP regarding virtual currency's guidelines specifically ICOs
http://www.sec.gov.ph/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/MC-Rules-for-ICOs.pdf
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August 21, 2019, 02:42:29 AM
 #90

I agree with what @mirakal just said na ang dapat patawan ng tax ay ang mga exchanges or the companies like coins.ph as they are the median on where we get our income from crypto. Getting some tax over every transactions from every individual will really benefit the government that much at yung na gain na tax saan naman nila gagamitin, if ever sa ikabubuti ng crypto industry dito sa Pinas then I have no grudge para dyan.

Hope that the government will give us the specific details how they'll entitled giving tax over crypto.

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August 21, 2019, 03:16:41 AM
 #91

I agree with what @mirakal just said na ang dapat patawan ng tax ay ang mga exchanges or the companies like coins.ph as they are the median on where we get our income from crypto. Getting some tax over every transactions from every individual will really benefit the government that much at yung na gain na tax saan naman nila gagamitin, if ever sa ikabubuti ng crypto industry dito sa Pinas then I have no grudge para dyan.

Hope that the government will give us the specific details how they'll entitled giving tax over crypto.
Sa ngayon tax free pa talaga sya even on stock market, so habang tax free pa sya enjoy lang muna naten and wag tayo masyadong mapressure kase ok naman ang government naten wag lang basta basta magtitiwala. Sa coins.ph wala naman tax na binabawas aside from their own fees and rates, and even banks kahit na alam nila na galing ito sa coins.ph wala naman silang binabawas so meaning we are still free from paying taxes. 

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August 21, 2019, 03:39:13 AM
 #92

I agree with what @mirakal just said na ang dapat patawan ng tax ay ang mga exchanges or the companies like coins.ph as they are the median on where we get our income from crypto. Getting some tax over every transactions from every individual will really benefit the government that much at yung na gain na tax saan naman nila gagamitin, if ever sa ikabubuti ng crypto industry dito sa Pinas then I have no grudge para dyan.

Hope that the government will give us the specific details how they'll entitled giving tax over crypto.
Sa ngayon tax free pa talaga sya even on stock market, so habang tax free pa sya enjoy lang muna naten and wag tayo masyadong mapressure kase ok naman ang government naten wag lang basta basta magtitiwala. Sa coins.ph wala naman tax na binabawas aside from their own fees and rates, and even banks kahit na alam nila na galing ito sa coins.ph wala naman silang binabawas so meaning we are still free from paying taxes. 
I don't know if it's tax free, and I don't take about stocks as I am only more active in crypto trading and other means of earning money in crypto.
There's only no clear regulation about crypto income tax but as a general rule, if you earn you have to pay taxes of what you earn, but as long as there's no proper procedures to remit, I think we can use it as an excuse.

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August 21, 2019, 07:00:27 AM
Last edit: August 21, 2019, 09:02:42 AM by maxreish
 #93

Sa ngayun wala pa akung naririnig o nabasa na balita mula sa pamahalaan natin na mayron o magkakaroon na ng tax ang mga kagaya natin kumukita sa cryptocurrency, kung sakali man na ipag utos ito ng pamahalaan ay okey lang naman din para sa akin.

Pero ang sigurado dito ang pinapatawan ng tax ay ang mga exchange katulad ng COINS.PH at mga iba pang katulad nito.
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August 21, 2019, 08:13:57 AM
Last edit: August 21, 2019, 08:30:16 AM by Bttzed03
 #94

.
Tama ka dyan. Pero, wala kasing specific guidelines para sa atin, and sa traders if may tax ba talaga to. Pero, sana to clear things out sana maglabas si BIR ng guidelines regarding trading in exchanges, tutal di na naman mangmang ang Pinas sa mga ganitong uri ng transaction. 
The general rule is merong tax lahat ng income maliban na lang kung may batas na walang tax, yan ang nakasaad mismo sa National Internal Revenue Code ng Pilipinas. Ang hindi lang malinaw sa ngayon ay kung anong classification nito.



Kung sa mga mataas ang kita maaari pero kung tayo na maliliit lang ang kinikita gaya ko siguro dapat super liit lang if ever na magkaroon ng tax dito sa Pilipinas. Pero hindi pa ba sapat ang mga tax na binabayaran ng mga company na gumagamit ng bitcoin siguro naman like coins.ph ay may tax or permit silang binabayaran at doon pa lang ay okay na at hindi na sila maghahabol.
Magkaiba ang tax ng Coinsph at yung tax mo bilang crypto trader/investor.



I agree with what @mirakal just said na ang dapat patawan ng tax ay ang mga exchanges or the companies like coins.ph as they are the median on where we get our income from crypto. Getting some tax over every transactions from every individual will really benefit the government that much at yung na gain na tax saan naman nila gagamitin, if ever sa ikabubuti ng crypto industry dito sa Pinas then I have no grudge para dyan.

Hope that the government will give us the specific details how they'll entitled giving tax over crypto.
Magkakaiba ang klase ng tax. Meron ng business tax na pinapataw sa Coinsph. Iba naman ang para sa mga kinikita ng individual traders.



Sa ngayon tax free pa talaga sya even on stock market, so habang tax free pa sya enjoy lang muna naten and wag tayo masyadong mapressure kase ok naman ang government naten wag lang basta basta magtitiwala. Sa coins.ph wala naman tax na binabawas aside from their own fees and rates, and even banks kahit na alam nila na galing ito sa coins.ph wala naman silang binabawas so meaning we are still free from paying taxes.  
Where did you get the idea na tax free ang income from stock market trading/investing? It is subject to Capital Gains Tax or Income Tax, or Percentage tax depending on the classification.

The law maybe silent on tax on income from cryptocurrencies but it does not mean na tax-exempt na siya. Kagaya ng sinabi ko sa previous comment, lahat ng income ay subject sa tax maliban na lang kung merong batas na nagsasabing tax-exempt ito.



Hindi nga masyadong klaro ang binigay na laws ng BIR subalit ayon sa kanilang pamunuan na ang pag tatax sa crypto income ay naka depende sa kung papano kinlasify ng BIR ang iyong bitcoin transaction. Pde itong maging capital tax gains or income tax.
Actually wala pang regulation na nilabas ang BIR. Yung mga nabanggit sa article ay opinyon pa lang ng author sa mga posibleng classification ng bitcoin/crypto.
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August 21, 2019, 03:39:59 PM
 #95

Hopefully they will not anymore go after our earning in crypto because every time we cash out our income to php we pay for the big charges, it's coins.ph that are making a lot of money from us, so the government should increase their tax on them.

It's very complicated for us to report our income in crypto as the value fluctuates, I'm thinking of a tax like "VAT" format where every time we spend we are already paying a tax on it, so same with cashing out in local exchange, they charge us, that should be our tax, or maybe if the government are still not satisfied, they just add a tax during conversion so we don't have to report individually.
Any hirap naman yung may tax pa sa converting assets. Sa coins palang luging lugi na tayo kase ang layo ng buy and sell rate. Pero mga exchange kase usually sila nagbabayad ng tax kase kumikita yung coins out of its millions of users.




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August 21, 2019, 08:56:58 PM
 #96

Sa akin lang naman wala pa naman kumatok sa bahay namin para magbigay ako ng tax, Kasi di naman nila alam kung anu ang trabaho mo at naka hide din ang lahat ng information natin so paano nila malalaman yun. Kaya nga sobrang hirap talaga natin mahanap kung ganun man at kung katulad lang naman tayo sa ibang freelancer na naka lagay ating mga info yun pwede siguro.
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August 21, 2019, 09:39:20 PM
 #97

Just wondering, ang cryptocurrencies ba ay may tax? Ayon sa Taxation Law ng Pinas, kapag kasi ang isang freelancer ay lumagpas ang kinita sa PHP250,000 sa loob ng isang taon ay may kaukulan na itong tax.

Luma na itong thread pero mukhang wala pa din nakakasagot ng maayos, depende pa din kasi yan. If freelancer ka tas yung pinambabayad sayo is Bitcoin then labeled sya as income kaya lalapag sya sa ating Income Tax na nag-iistart nga sa 250,000 which is 20% of the excess of 250k, para malinaw Income ito hah ibig sabihin kahit naka tanggap ka ng 125,000 in Pesos tas 125,000 pesos in BTC suma tutal 250,000 an income mo for that year.

Pero kung yung kita mo galing sa Bitcoin galing sa trading parang sa stocks or sa pagbenta ng kahit anong equity dito naman papasok ang capital gains tax which has different rates compared to the income tax and is usually fix kahit gaano kalaki kita mo. Dapat marunong ninyong i-differentiate yan lalo na sa mga self-employed kasi kayo din aasikaso ng tax report ninyo. Well documented dapat ang mga earnings ninyo para di kayo pansinin ng BIR.

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August 22, 2019, 06:55:49 AM
Merited by Bttzed03 (1)
 #98

Luma na itong thread pero mukhang wala pa din nakakasagot ng maayos, depende pa din kasi yan. If freelancer ka tas yung pinambabayad sayo is Bitcoin then labeled sya as income kaya lalapag sya sa ating Income Tax na nag-iistart nga sa 250,000 which is 20% of the excess of 250k, para malinaw Income ito hah ibig sabihin kahit naka tanggap ka ng 125,000 in Pesos tas 125,000 pesos in BTC suma tutal 250,000 an income mo for that year.

Pero kung yung kita mo galing sa Bitcoin galing sa trading parang sa stocks or sa pagbenta ng kahit anong equity dito naman papasok ang capital gains tax which has different rates compared to the income tax and is usually fix kahit gaano kalaki kita mo. Dapat marunong ninyong i-differentiate yan lalo na sa mga self-employed kasi kayo din aasikaso ng tax report ninyo. Well documented dapat ang mga earnings ninyo para di kayo pansinin ng BIR.

Anong partikular na BIR regulation mo binase itong sagot mo? Base kasi sa previous comments, wala pang nilalabas ang BIR at ang mga nabanggit nila ay mga assumptions pa lamang. Kung assumption din yung sa'yo, mag-ingat tayo sa pagbibigay ng mga payo pagdating sa tax lalo na at wala pa palang official stance ang BIR dito.

 
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August 22, 2019, 10:04:01 AM
 #99

Pero kung yung kita mo galing sa Bitcoin galing sa trading parang sa stocks or sa pagbenta ng kahit anong equity dito naman papasok ang capital gains tax which has different rates compared to the income tax and is usually fix kahit gaano kalaki kita mo. Dapat marunong ninyong i-differentiate yan lalo na sa mga self-employed kasi kayo din aasikaso ng tax report ninyo. Well documented dapat ang mga earnings ninyo para di kayo pansinin ng BIR.
Tanong ko lang kung kailan tayo mapapansin ng BIR na may income tayo sa cryptocurrency? Kasi sa trading pwede tayong malugi and same goes with crypto-gambling. Tingin ko ang Coins.Ph pa nga ay may alam sa mga pera natin na pumapasok/lumalabas sa crypto at kadalasan sa kanila tayo magkaka-problema. I just don't see any link for us to be taxed (crypto related incomes) by the government.

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August 22, 2019, 11:28:50 AM
 #100

.
Tanong ko lang kung kailan tayo mapapansin ng BIR na may income tayo sa cryptocurrency? Kasi sa trading pwede tayong malugi and same goes with crypto-gambling. Tingin ko ang Coins.Ph pa nga ay may alam sa mga pera natin na pumapasok/lumalabas sa crypto at kadalasan sa kanila tayo magkaka-problema. I just don't see any link for us to be taxed (crypto related incomes) by the government.
Kung babasahin mo previous comments, ilang beses ng nabanggit na wala pa nga nilalabas ang BIR pero hindi ibig sabihin na hindi na subject sa tax yung mga kinita mo sa crypto-related activities. It is your duty kung ano ilalagay sa tax returns mo. Kung ano ang na-file mo, doon magbabase ang bir examiners kung sakali mang i-review nila ito. Mas maganda kung magtanong ka sa accountants kung hindi ka pa marunong.


.

Anong partikular na BIR regulation mo binase itong sagot mo? Base kasi sa previous comments, wala pang nilalabas ang BIR at ang mga nabanggit nila ay mga assumptions pa lamang. Kung assumption din yung sa'yo, mag-ingat tayo sa pagbibigay ng mga payo pagdating sa tax lalo na at wala pa palang official stance ang BIR dito.
Tama. Dapat ingat sa pagsagot. Mahirap na baka iba ang maging treatment ng BIR kapag naglabas na sila ng regulation na mag-cover sa cryptocurrencies.
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