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Author Topic: How big this market really is?  (Read 14924 times)
Vaculin
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January 04, 2019, 02:36:39 AM
 #1

Circle Executed $24 Billion in OTC Trades in 2018

source : https://cointelegraph.com/news/circle-executed-24-billion-in-otc-trades-in-2018


There are a lot of transactions through OTC and based on the above article OTC transactions are not reflected in the cryptocurrency market https://coinmarketcap.com/ since there is OTC does not require 3rd party like crypto Exchanges.

I was thinking, maybe there are bigger transactions done through OTC combine, compared to the total marketcap now which is $130,315,196,527 •

What's your thoughts on this?




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January 04, 2019, 02:43:07 AM
 #2

Oh definitely. If a certain person or entity is planning on buying a huge amounts of bitcoin(we're talking multiple millions-billions), chances are they won't use exchanges like Binance due to the liquidity probably not being enough. Instead, they do OTC probably with the people who handle exchanges, and probably with big-scale miners.

Unfortunately I don't think there's an accurate way of knowing how much bitcoin is being traded through OTC, besides these companies publicly announcing them.

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January 04, 2019, 02:47:57 AM
 #3

Unfortunately I don't think there's an accurate way of knowing how much bitcoin is being traded through OTC, besides these companies publicly announcing them.
I know it's impossible to determine the exact figure but I believe it's higher compared to the total amount being traded in all combine exchanges.

What's your opinion?




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January 04, 2019, 02:56:25 AM
Merited by dbshck (2)
 #4

Circle Executed $24 Billion in OTC Trades in 2018

source : https://cointelegraph.com/news/circle-executed-24-billion-in-otc-trades-in-2018


There are a lot of transactions through OTC and based on the above article OTC transactions are not reflected in the cryptocurrency market https://coinmarketcap.com/ since there is OTC does not require 3rd party like crypto Exchanges.

I was thinking, maybe there are bigger transactions done through OTC combine, compared to the total marketcap now which is $130,315,196,527 •

What's your thoughts on this?

the market cap is a meaningless number
it has always been meaningless. will people just stop referring to it

anyone can surpass the market cap using just $5

yep
make an altcoin with 5 trillion coins. buy one for $5 and automatically have $25TRILLION market cap

yep thats how empty and foolish the market cap measure is
it does not deserve any attention, so dont give it any attention

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Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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January 04, 2019, 03:15:29 AM
 #5

Unfortunately I don't think there's an accurate way of knowing how much bitcoin is being traded through OTC, besides these companies publicly announcing them.
I know it's impossible to determine the exact figure but I believe it's higher compared to the total amount being traded in all combine exchanges.

What's your opinion?

I really have no idea. But knowing that OTC trades are definitely trades with huge amounts of money(which is why they trade through OTC in the first place), then it's possible(while probably a bit unlikely I think).

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January 04, 2019, 03:55:51 AM
Last edit: January 06, 2019, 07:43:20 AM by HabBear
Merited by dbshck (3), Natalim (2)
 #6

There are a lot of transactions through OTC and based on the above article OTC transactions are not reflected in the cryptocurrency market https://coinmarketcap.com/ since there is OTC does not require 3rd party like crypto Exchanges.

I was thinking, maybe there are bigger transactions done through OTC combine, compared to the total marketcap now which is $130,315,196,527 •

What's your thoughts on this?

I'd argue that OTC trades aren't transactions that are worth tracking. If they don't hit the blockchain they aren't influencing supply, demand, or the price, no? These OTC trades are just the exchange moving bitcoin on paper from one person's account to another. Nothing's been exchanged, it's an accounting adjustment in the IOU that is banking acounting.

The total market cap includes the $24B that Circle claims is their OTC business because the market cap caculation is the number of all bitcoins in existence multiplied by the price per bitcoin. The market cap includes the entire value of any transaction that could conceivably occur and is not a measure of liquidity. The metric you should be using is called "the float" which is the transaction activity that occurs on a daily basis.

Why should OTC transactions be considered part of bitcoin transaction activity if they don't ever leave the wallet they're sitting in?

I don't care what Circle or Coinbase's OTC transaction activity is until it gets so large that it requires they go buy more Bitcoin in the open market over the blockchain (to handle their internal demand).

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January 04, 2019, 04:15:05 AM
 #7

Unfortunately I don't think there's an accurate way of knowing how much bitcoin is being traded through OTC, besides these companies publicly announcing them.
I know it's impossible to determine the exact figure but I believe it's higher compared to the total amount being traded in all combine exchanges.

What's your opinion?

i doubt that it is "higher". specially not overall.
however it is possible that in certain times the OTC trading volume increased in comparison to exchanges trading volume. for example at times when there are a lot of whales accumulating bitcoin but don't want anybody else find out about it and more importantly they don't want the market be affected by it.
but generally i believe the exchange volumes is still higher.

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January 04, 2019, 04:28:47 AM
 #8

i doubt that it is "higher". specially not overall.
however it is possible that in certain times the OTC trading volume increased in comparison to exchanges trading volume. for example at times when there are a lot of whales accumulating bitcoin but don't want anybody else find out about it and more importantly they don't want the market be affected by it.
but generally i believe the exchange volumes is still higher.

Agree. There are probably some weeks or probably months whereas OTC trades are higher than exchange trades, but overall in probably a whole year? While also possible, very likely not. It's not like entities do OTC trading on the daily I think.

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January 04, 2019, 06:20:20 AM
Last edit: January 04, 2019, 06:52:37 AM by Natalim
 #9

There are a lot of transactions through OTC and based on the above article OTC transactions are not reflected in the cryptocurrency market https://coinmarketcap.com/ since there is OTC does not require 3rd party like crypto Exchanges.

I was thinking, maybe there are bigger transactions done through OTC combine, compared to the total marketcap now which is $130,315,196,527 •

What's your thoughts on this?

I'd argue that OTC trades aren't transactions that are worth tracking. If they don't hit the blockchain they aren't influencing suppy, demand, or the price, no? These OTC trades are just the exchange moving bitcoin one paper from one person's account to another. Nothing's been exchanged, it's an accounting adjustment in the IOU that is banking acounting.

The total market cap includes the $24B that Circle claims is their OTC business because the market cap caculation is the number of all bitcoins in existence multiplied by the price per bitcoin. The market cap includes the entire value of any transaction that could conceivably occur and is not a measure of liquidity. The metric you should be using is called "the float" which is the transaction activity that occurs on a daily basis.

Why should OTC transactions be considered part of bitcoin transaction activity if they don't ever leave the wallet they're sitting in?

I don't care what Circle or Coinbase's OTC transaction activity is until it gets so large that it requires they go buy more Bitcoin in the open market over the blockchain (to handle their internal demand).
Thanks for the well explained thought, I know a little about banking terminology as I studied that during collage, the marketcap  includes the OTC transactions because they are still part of the supply, and IMO, the barometer here to determine how big the transaction is hard to determine if done with OTC transactions, Coinbase can make a statement but it's hard to verify it, unlike transactions that appeared in the blockchain.

Unfortunately I don't think there's an accurate way of knowing how much bitcoin is being traded through OTC, besides these companies publicly announcing them.
I know it's impossible to determine the exact figure but I believe it's higher compared to the total amount being traded in all combine exchanges.

What's your opinion?

i doubt that it is "higher". specially not overall.
however it is possible that in certain times the OTC trading volume increased in comparison to exchanges trading volume. for example at times when there are a lot of whales accumulating bitcoin but don't want anybody else find out about it and more importantly they don't want the market be affected by it.
but generally i believe the exchange volumes is still higher.

My opinion on this is that I think whales are accumulating through OTC and dump in exchanges to cause panic, and if they do the same method again and again, this will only makes them more profitable.




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January 04, 2019, 06:34:24 AM
 #10

I think the market is really big it is more bigger than what we think, and here are so many kinds of investors on the feild with a different thought and sight regarding cryptos, that is why if we look at the price of different crypto coin everything is unstable and there is no similarity due to the law of supply and demand and coin has really a different features and usage. We cannot really predict the future of the crypto because it doesn't depend on a institution or government or in every individual person. I think it depends on the whole crypto economy.

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January 04, 2019, 06:52:54 AM
 #11

I have watched a youtuber who analyzed this issue. He said that OTC traders aren't recorded and this can be a reason for the bloom of the market for this year.

But as for the market volume, I'd like to agree with this.
but generally i believe the exchange volumes is still higher.

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January 04, 2019, 07:26:09 AM
 #12

I have watched a youtuber who analyzed this issue. He said that OTC traders aren't recorded and this can be a reason for the bloom of the market for this year.

But as for the market volume, I'd like to agree with this.
but generally i believe the exchange volumes is still higher.

I remember something when we talked about how the market is going on this market will be the most Millionaire maker and a lots of people get benefited by this market so we cannot say this market cannot make anyone's life more better and we will definitely accept the development in future and we may differently help for that.

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January 04, 2019, 09:54:53 AM
 #13

I have watched a youtuber who analyzed this issue. He said that OTC traders aren't recorded and this can be a reason for the bloom of the market for this year.

But as for the market volume, I'd like to agree with this.
but generally i believe the exchange volumes is still higher.

I remember something when we talked about how the market is going on this market will be the most Millionaire maker and a lots of people get benefited by this market so we cannot say this market cannot make anyone's life more better and we will definitely accept the development in future and we may differently help for that.
It has changed a lot of people's lives and too many success stories out there and so I agree with that.

I may not be a millionaire by dollars but I'm included with those people that has been changed by this market. It's still young to be considered 'too' big but its growing year by year.

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January 04, 2019, 10:09:13 AM
 #14

Circle Executed $24 Billion in OTC Trades in 2018

source : https://cointelegraph.com/news/circle-executed-24-billion-in-otc-trades-in-2018


There are a lot of transactions through OTC and based on the above article OTC transactions are not reflected in the cryptocurrency market https://coinmarketcap.com/ since there is OTC does not require 3rd party like crypto Exchanges.

I was thinking, maybe there are bigger transactions done through OTC combine, compared to the total marketcap now which is $130,315,196,527 •

What's your thoughts on this?


In the near future (probably within a few years) the market will be largely cleared. In this case, we will see the real value of the market.

However, we still have to wait for a while.

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January 04, 2019, 11:29:18 AM
 #15

How the OTC trade of circle has to do with the total market cap map? I think there is lot of trade in localbitcoin and other sites  happen and lot of happening in this forum too but not accounted at all.

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January 04, 2019, 08:58:39 PM
 #16

The OTC market is going to grow as this becomes a popular way to trade. More companies will offer this service for big investors, especially is the bakkt is continuously delayed. It has been pushed back to Q1 2019

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January 04, 2019, 10:56:18 PM
 #17

We may never know as not all OTC trades and transactions are recorded unless one party conveys how much they bought/sold in a single instance. Most whales are probably doing OTC trades when they are buying so as not to affect the tempo of the market, because if they bought directly on exchanges, there'd be a significant price increase if they decided to buy thousands of coins at once. Same in selling if they don't want to intentionally crash the market, they'd go OTC to keep things stable on the markets.

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January 05, 2019, 12:10:29 AM
 #18

Circle Executed $24 Billion in OTC Trades in 2018

source : https://cointelegraph.com/news/circle-executed-24-billion-in-otc-trades-in-2018

this is the first time i've ever seen an OTC broker publish their volume data. thanks for sharing!

$24 billion from a single broker is actually pretty impressive if you compare to the spot market and account for all the wash trading and leverage.

I'd argue that OTC trades aren't transactions that are worth tracking. If they don't hit the blockchain they aren't influencing suppy, demand, or the price, no? These OTC trades are just the exchange moving bitcoin one paper from one person's account to another. Nothing's been exchanged, it's an accounting adjustment in the IOU that is banking acounting.

the OTC market absolutely affects supply and demand. it's an avenue for buyers to accumulate and sellers to distribute, especially in large volumes. it's important because when OTC supply dries up, buyers head for the exchanges. when OTC demand dries up, sellers head for the exchanges. this can have a big effect on supply and demand.

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January 05, 2019, 12:13:26 AM
 #19

the only reason companies like circle are publishing such numbers is because say there is a 0.1% fee..

its telling investors of companies like blockstream that their 'liquid' otc swap software. made companies like DCG.co
$24,000,000 ROI on the investment of dev teams making otc software

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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January 05, 2019, 12:32:14 AM
 #20

Big amounts for sure. This market is still in its infancy and i strongly believe you will have investors investing large sums in OTC trades. I would think a billionaire would skip an exchange and deal with the owner of the exchange directly.
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