why don't we have campaigns using lightning network in the forum yet?

[bitmover]

Hello. I read this topic by @LoyceV, where he talked about making a lightning network casino.

But like I said, there's no way I can do this I'm still thinking about creating a topic in Project Development to make this a community effort.

So maybe my real Crypto Resolution should be:
via Imgflip Meme Generator

Then I was thinking about how our community could promote lightning network. As this place is historically a site where new projects were born to increase Bitcoin adoption.

What is necessary to make a signature campaign that would pay users using lightning network? Is it possible with the actual wallets? I know there are some wallets already using lightning network.
Why don't we have any campaign using it? Is it more lack of knowledge, or is it still too risky to use lightning network?

Not necessarily a significant campaign, could be something different..

The idea would be to have micropayments weekly,  the channel would only be closed at the end of the campaign. It would be a nice use of the this new tech.

[NeuroticFish]

It would be a nice use of the this new tech.

While your idea is nice, LN is still beta, so it may not be safe enough for the average Joe.
And not all campaign participants are experts.
So for now I'd be happy if all campaigns would use SegWit (!), which is already old tech and still insufficiency used, and leave LN mature (and get "released") before using it for everybody.

[OmegaStarScream]

LN is not stable and should not be used on the main net. The developers themselves said so, who are we to say otherwise?

I understand that people want to experiment and push for adoption but If people lose their money in the process, that doesn't help.

[ranman09]

It would be a nice use of the this new tech.

While your idea is nice, LN is still beta, so it may not be safe enough for the average Joe.
And not all campaign participants are experts.
So for now I'd be happy if all campaigns would use SegWit (!), which is already old tech and still insufficiency used, and leave LN mature (and get "released") before using it for everybody.

Agreed, even I don't know how much I will need to open a channel and to ask a friend to do so. Let's give LN some more time. I'm sure these small things will go on automatic and then it will be easier to understand.

[globtroter]

Agreed, even I don't know how much I will need to open a channel and to ask a friend to do so. Let's give LN some more time. I'm sure these small things will go on automatic and then it will be easier to understand.

You don't have to know much to start using LN already. The easiest way (not the safest) is to use a custodial wallet.

For example: bluewallet.io (iOS and Android apps)

You top it up with a small amount of Bitcoin and can immediately send and receive lightning payments.
By default it uses a third party LND installation, meaning it's already capable of sending/receiving payments because it's well connected.

You can set it up to use your own LND hub instead.

There's also Bitcoin Lightning Wallet for Android which is quite good.

Give these apps a go (using small amounts of Bitcoin). That's how you get the ball rolling. It won't get rolling if everyone just sits there hoping for the thing to resolve itself on its own.

HTH

[LoyceV]

LN is not stable and should not be used on the main net. The developers themselves said so, who are we to say otherwise?

I understand that people want to experiment and push for adoption but If people lose their money in the process, that doesn't help.

So far, I haven't read anything about people losing money due to LN-bugs. That would indeed be very bad publicity if that happens.
However, I wouldn't mind putting a few mBTC in an experimental system. Consider it play money.
I must admit I still haven't installed a LN wallet though.

[USBitcoinServices.Com]

I think the lightning network still needs more time to keep improving and also for more people to apply in their daily tx, perhaps many people at this point in time still want to pay for BTC tx but once it gets more expensive they will choose LN for the economy and faster tx.

[hugeblack]

What will these campaigns gain from the lightning network? These campaigns are commercial and not charitable. If many people can calculate by numbers how many campaigns they can save after adopting the lightning network and risks, you may find more interest.

Many people still use Legacy addresses, although many campaigns require SegWit addresses. You can check Chipmixer joining requests.

[Lucius]

What will these campaigns gain from the lightning network?

Campaigns would get instant and very cheap transactions, which is actually the main idea around Lightning Network. But I think it would be very difficult to find quality posters that would have the necessary knowledge to use this new technology. In time when SegWit is still a puzzle for some users, LN is not a technology that will be so widely used in the near future.

So far, I haven't read anything about people losing money due to LN-bugs. That would indeed be very bad publicity if that happens.

I know the topic is over a year old, but there were reportedly cases where users lost BTC using LN (mostly due to ignorance), but also because of a bug that "allowed the spending of ‘fake’ coins on the network".

https://news.bitcoin.com/mishap-sees-user-lose-30000-btc-on-lightning-network/

[LoyceV]

I know the topic is over a year old

It turns out there was already at least one LN-casino when I typed that. And I've played around with LN quite a lot since then.

I think currently paying many users at once using LN would be a lot more work than just paying them all on-chain. It would be very cool for an automated system though, I imagine posts being paid within seconds of posting them!

[badykvik]

why don't we have campaigns using lightning network in the forum yet?

probably the LN developers have not picked interest in offer bounties.

What is necessary to make a signature campaign that would pay users using lightning network?

You need some coin/token reserve to share to participants, you the an announcement thread, you need signature codes and a bounty manger.

Not necessarily a significant campaign, could be something different..

Yes, it can be other campaign as well.

The idea would be to have micropayments weekly,  the channel would only be closed at the end of the campaign. It would be a nice use of the this new tech

.
The idea is good and it shall receive interests from members here.

[DarkDays]

The vast majority of companies that have a campaign on here don't even access lightning on their website, so why they suddenly implement it as part of a campaign here on the forum?

Just because something is new, and potentially useful, doesn't mean it should be through in wherever possible. There are knowledge gaps and technical hurdles in place that would make it unwieldy right now, hence why most people don't bother with it.

[Stedsm]

I still see people getting too confused while a lot still don't understand the main concept behind LN and its uses. While trying to promote any service through LN, the major thing would be that the company, the manager they hired to manage a campaign here as well as the users participating in it are all capable of knowing and understanding everything about LN before they start. I don't see much talks about LN but would love to learn it in an easy way (yes, I don't know yet how to use it).

--snip--
I imagine posts being paid within seconds of posting them!

Something like Yobit and automated to have much quicker payments than them? (I've just used their name as an example btw)  

[o_e_l_e_o]

Something like Yobit and automated to have much quicker payments than them?

That's not an accurate comparison. The YoBit campaigns (YoBit and Cryptotalk) were co-ordinated from a centralized platform, upon which users had to create an account. Any payments that were made could be made instantly to their "account balance", without ever having to perform an on-chain or a Lightning Network transaction. It's the exact same underlying idea as trading on a centralized exchange - your trade confirms instantly because nothing ever has to touch the blockchain. All that is updated is the centralized service's internal database. It's fast for your account to be credited, sure, but you still have to perform a normal bitcoin transaction to withdraw the coins, and until you do withdraw them then they aren't yours.

A Lightning network transaction on the other hand can be just as fast with the added bonus of not being reliant on a centralized third party to keep control of your coins.

[LoyceV]

Something like Yobit and automated to have much quicker payments than them?

Yobit's campaign was automated already, but indeed, I meant much faster.

As far as I know, they paid ever 4 hours. I'm not sure how much of the posts they checked, but it would be easy to add to a scraper that checks all new posts.
I'd like to setup a bot that instantly pays all LN-requests (under a few sats only) posted anywhere on the forum, but the command line LN payment processing is what stopped me. This topic (although totally unrelated) demonstrates how fast for instance a payment could be processed after a post.

[hatshepsut93]

I think the answer is simple - there's not much incentive right now to use LN for this type of transactions. They happen less frequently - once per week, they don't need to be instant and delays are a common occurrence, on-chain transaction fees are very low right now, and even if they were higher, it wouldn't be a big problem, because you can pay all participants in a single transaction, and transaction outputs add very little to the size. Plus a lot of campaigns (like the one we are both enrolled in) pay their participants to some sort of online account.