Bloomberg: Japan Gauges Interest in Bitcoin ETF as Pundits Talk Down US Approval

[mich]

Exciting time to be alive-

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bloomberg-japan-gauges-interest-in-bitcoin-etf-as-pundits-talk-down-us-approval-rumors



Citing a person familiar with the matter, the publication reports that the Financial Services Agency (FSA) is testing interest in an ETF with a view to potentially giving the instrument the green light to trade on domestic markets.

The move would place Japan in direct contrast to the United States, where regulators are risk-averse on ETFs but permit physical Bitcoin futures trading, something the FSA has rejected.

This, Bloomberg notes, came due to the Japanese regulator “concluding that such products would achieve little besides stoke speculation.”

Appetites for an ETF worldwide remain mixed. While some cryptocurrency advocates argue their acceptance would help Bitcoin’s image and popularity, others from within the industry claim the increased speculation and lack of physical Bitcoin ownership involved would have a detrimental effect.

Discussing the U.S. stance on ETFs, securities lawyer Jake Chervinsky stood firm on his opinion that lawmakers were unlikely to change tack anytime soon.

Speculation had arisen that the ongoing government shutdown in Washington could see the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) give an ETF automatic approval.

“It's true that a proposed rule change is auto-approved if the SEC doesn't make a decision by the deadline, but in reality it would never happen,” he wrote Saturday, clarifying:

    “The SEC has enough staff to put out a decision, even if it's a one-pager saying ‘denied for reasons to be explained later.’”

Intercontinental Exchange’s Bakkt platform is still slated to begin offering Bitcoin futures on the U.S. market later this month, a move which Nasdaq has said it will copy in 2019.

[avikz]

I really don't know what exiting time is ahead even if Japan proposes to accept ETF business in their country. Japan is well know for its over regularion. They have imposed tax slabs ranging from 15% to 55% for cryptos which is effectively creating an obstacle for mass adoption. I am sure no real impact will be seen even if Japan decides positively for ETF.

Appetites for an ETF worldwide remain mixed. While some cryptocurrency advocates argue their acceptance would help Bitcoin’s image and popularity, others from within the industry claim the increased speculation and lack of physical Bitcoin ownership involved would have a detrimental effect.

I totally agree with the quoted statement here. In US, a majority of the proposed ETFs were synthetic in nature. That means no physical bitcoins were supposed to be traded. So they were essentially proposing a speculation game without the need of physical bitcoin. It may indeed be proved detrimental to the health of bitcoin market.

While I don't oppose physical ETFs, I strongly belive that synthetic ETFs should not be allowed. It won't have any positive impact on the market.

[Herbert2020]

I really don't know what exiting time is ahead even if Japan proposes to accept ETF business in their country. Japan is well know for its over regularion. They have imposed tax slabs ranging from 15% to 55% for cryptos which is effectively creating an obstacle for mass adoption. I am sure no real impact will be seen even if Japan decides positively for ETF.

i am not sure how much are the taxes on bitcoin but i am taking your word for it. but i am sure about one thing and it is the fact that you are missing the fact that this tax is for when you "invest in bitcoin" not when you use it "as a currency". in other words if you are a trader who buys and sells bitcoin and takes profit then you have to pay whatever% tax on it but if you use bitcoin as a currency to purchase stuff then the tax on it is 0. for example you can receive your salary in bitcoin and end up having 20BTC and not pay anything for taxes.
and that helps with adoption  A LOT.

[avikz]

I really don't know what exiting time is ahead even if Japan proposes to accept ETF business in their country. Japan is well know for its over regularion. They have imposed tax slabs ranging from 15% to 55% for cryptos which is effectively creating an obstacle for mass adoption. I am sure no real impact will be seen even if Japan decides positively for ETF.

i am not sure how much are the taxes on bitcoin but i am taking your word for it. but i am sure about one thing and it is the fact that you are missing the fact that this tax is for when you "invest in bitcoin" not when you use it "as a currency". in other words if you are a trader who buys and sells bitcoin and takes profit then you have to pay whatever% tax on it but if you use bitcoin as a currency to purchase stuff then the tax on it is 0. for example you can receive your salary in bitcoin and end up having 20BTC and not pay anything for taxes.
and that helps with adoption  A LOT.

True! There is no EXTRA tax if someone is using bitcoin as a currency. The tax bracket mentioned in my reply, is mainly imposed on the traders. But my area of argument is absolutely different and tax information is just a parameter of it.

I am saying, synthetic ETF will not do any good to the market. If we really want to see impact on the market, we need physical ETF. Otherwise, it really makes no sense to have an operational ETF anywhere in the world.

[jseverson]

but if you use bitcoin as a currency to purchase stuff then the tax on it is 0. for example you can receive your salary in bitcoin and end up having 20BTC and not pay anything for taxes.
and that helps with adoption  A LOT.

Umm, not necessarily. If the store you purchased from pays proper taxes, they'll charge you for it; it will be inclusive with the price.

If you receive your salary in Bitcoin, and you're required to pay income tax, you still have to pay the appropriate taxes. Income is income no matter which form of currency you receive it in.

While I don't oppose physical ETFs, I strongly belive that synthetic ETFs should not be allowed. It won't have any positive impact on the market.

A physical one would certainly be better for prices, but even non physical ones might be able to shine a light on Bitcoin as a sound investment. I still don't know which camp I'm in, but I'm pretty sure there won't be any approved anytime soon.

[dothebeats]

I don't see anything great about ETFs except for a price bump that it could potentially bring to the table if ever it gets approved. Investors would have easy access to coins that was never in circulation, creating an entirely new market separating bitcoin from ETFs and creating new money for the rich as well. Also, this could also be a reason for yet another run for manipulation and insider trading, so I'm kinda wary of ETFs being approved, too.

[squatter]

Citing a person familiar with the matter, the publication reports that the Financial Services Agency (FSA) is testing interest in an ETF with a view to potentially giving the instrument the green light to trade on domestic markets.

The move would place Japan in direct contrast to the United States, where regulators are risk-averse on ETFs but permit physical Bitcoin futures trading, something the FSA has rejected.

This, Bloomberg notes, came due to the Japanese regulator “concluding that such products would achieve little besides stoke speculation.”

If that's their basis for rejecting futures markets, why would they want to allow an ETF? How is it any less based in speculation?

I really don't know what exiting time is ahead even if Japan proposes to accept ETF business in their country. Japan is well know for its over regularion. They have imposed tax slabs ranging from 15% to 55% for cryptos which is effectively creating an obstacle for mass adoption. I am sure no real impact will be seen even if Japan decides positively for ETF.

Indeed, I'm sure their over-regulation is the reason Japan's share of global volume has plummeted. It might have a positive effect on US regulators' position towards future ETF approval, but I doubt it would greatly affect the market.