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Author Topic: Escrows and forgotten sections  (Read 319 times)
Rambotnic
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January 09, 2019, 10:17:15 PM
 #1

Part one.

Let me start in first place for the escrow services here in our forum.
The problem with escrows is something that should be considered.
Im talking about the many topics in the currency exchanges where people want 3rd party escrows and offer other websites/platforms to be used as escrow.
Bitcointalk have our own escrows, yes, they are not official but, they are bitcointalk escrows.
I suggest everyone who create topic about buying/selling and requesting escrow to be FORCED to use forum escrow.
Any other suggestions to 3rd party platforms/websites to act as escrow, should be removed/deleted.
Why ? Because if someone wants to use localbitcoins or bitfy or whatever other escrow platform/agent/website, he is free to open topic/sale/exchange on their platform.
Trades/sales/exchanges requiring escrow, should be handled by our escrows.
Many people get scammed from people redirecting to fake or not trusted escrow services/platforms.
We have enough trusted people who can act as escrow for our forum, and by posting ad/sale/exchange in our forum, people should be using our forum escrows.
That will help the forum, members, escrows and everyone around who is willing to do secure trade to receive and provide more trust to the people who provide us security.
Not in last place financial it will motivate the trusted escrows to be more active and provide fastest and better services.

Part two.
In last place lets talk a little bit about the forgotten sections and especially one of it.
And im talking about the altcoin  marketplace ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=161.0 )
This section is more than forgotten from moderated activity and 99% of the post there belong to different section.
Most of users there spam the altcoin marketplace with spam and the section itself becoming useless with every single day.
Yes i know Moderators are people just us and they work and need time to handle thousands of requests/spams but we need someone motivated with free time who can handle the problems.

*More sections full with spam and off-topic will be added to this topic in future.

Any other suggestions about the escrows and the forgotten sections are always welcome to make our place a better place.
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January 09, 2019, 11:04:39 PM
 #2

They are just escrows, not bitcointalk escrows. It is up to you whether to trust them or not.

Quote
Q: Why haven't you banned <insert scammer username here> who is an obvious scammer?
A: Possible (or real, not for me to decide) scams are not moderated to prevent moderator abuse. If we start picking out which ones we call "scammers" and ban, we would make a lot of decisions based on biased opinions.

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Rambotnic
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January 09, 2019, 11:28:08 PM
 #3

They are just escrows, not bitcointalk escrows. It is up to you whether to trust them or not.

Quote
Q: Why haven't you banned <insert scammer username here> who is an obvious scammer?
A: Possible (or real, not for me to decide) scams are not moderated to prevent moderator abuse. If we start picking out which ones we call "scammers" and ban, we would make a lot of decisions based on biased opinions.

Yes they are bitcointalk escrows because they provide escrow service in bitcointalk.
I already said they are not official but still they provide service in bitcointalk only so they are bitcointalk escrows.
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January 10, 2019, 02:31:06 AM
Merited by minerjones (1)
 #4

Yes they are bitcointalk escrows because they provide escrow service in bitcointalk.
I already said they are not official but still they provide service in bitcointalk only so they are bitcointalk escrows.
So what are you trying to achieve here?
You can't force someone or both party to use escrow, though I recommend it. You can't also force someone to not to be scam, it's their choice not using escrow so do it's their fault.

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January 10, 2019, 03:18:10 AM
 #5

Yes they are bitcointalk escrows because they provide escrow service in bitcointalk.
I already said they are not official but still they provide service in bitcointalk only so they are bitcointalk escrows.

If I run translation services here, will I become "Bitcointalk translators" then?
No hard feelings but the term is a bit misleading to me.

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January 10, 2019, 07:41:26 AM
 #6

You cannot compel one or decide for them which escrow service they should trust and use,lest you do that and the transaction goes awry,they come back to blame the forum
It's your decision to choose an escrow in your trade,the forum only just provides that option to make it safer and keep users safe from scam escrows,it doesn't mean we'll get them to use it by compulsion
And just so you know no escrow service is to be 100% trusted,you still need a tiny bit of sceptism when using such services

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January 10, 2019, 10:15:08 AM
 #7

You keep calling them 'bitcointalk escrows', but they are not 'bitcointalk escrows'. There is no agreement between bitcointalk and the escrows to offer those services. They have not been appointed by theymos or someone else to offer the services nor are they forced to do so. They dont pay a fee to bitcointalk (as far as I know) or work for the forum directly so you cant refer to them as 'bitcointalk escrows'. They are just trusted users, using the site to offer their services. You can do the same thing and you wouldn't be a 'bitcointalk escrow' or a 'non-bitcointalk escrow'.

If you sell your PC over ebay - should I call you an Official Ebay PC Dealer?

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January 11, 2019, 10:04:50 PM
Merited by minerjones (1)
 #8

You keep calling them 'bitcointalk escrows', but they are not 'bitcointalk escrows'. There is no agreement between bitcointalk and the escrows to offer those services. They have not been appointed by theymos or someone else to offer the services nor are they forced to do so. They dont pay a fee to bitcointalk (as far as I know) or work for the forum directly so you cant refer to them as 'bitcointalk escrows'. They are just trusted users, using the site to offer their services. You can do the same thing and you wouldn't be a 'bitcointalk escrow' or a 'non-bitcointalk escrow'.

If you sell your PC over ebay - should I call you an Official Ebay PC Dealer?
They may not have agreement between bitcointalk but they are the only people with feedback which can be trusted to be called bitcointalk escrows.
That's why they are not official but still our last hope to not being scammed.
Also consider the last complains about how people being scammed via bitfy, paxful and so, i believe our escrows proven from years is much better than 3rd party websites and their back coors.
No one will be appointed by theymos as escrow because if something goes wrong, this will affect theymos itself for promoting them as official escrows.

Yes they are bitcointalk escrows because they provide escrow service in bitcointalk.
I already said they are not official but still they provide service in bitcointalk only so they are bitcointalk escrows.

If I run translation services here, will I become "Bitcointalk translators" then?
No hard feelings but the term is a bit misleading to me.


Yes you will, but not official one same as the escrows.

But why everyone ignore the fact about the forgotten sections and everyone talk about the escrows ?
The problem with spam is huge and the moderators are not enough.
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January 12, 2019, 04:52:10 AM
 #9

You are trying to bridge very different ideas with your thread.

1st part - The term for these escrows is "Forum Trusted Escrow" hopefully that clears up the need for naming them. The reason they are used and the term is what I find floating in the Marketplace is because they have longevity, and a proven trackrecord for providing trustworthy escrow services.

Now the truth of that is it means nothing if 1 day one of them decides to take the funds and run, exit scams have happened. It was before my time afaik.

I point that out as people still need to pay attention to what they are doing and who they are trusting with their funds. This is because the forum doesn't moderate scams, because it involves a lot of resources and time; not to mention what you perceive as a scam may be legitimate business elsewhere. So due diligence is everyones responsibility.

Now your point of making people do this or that really flies in the face of less regulations within the forum. It is already widely accepted as the way business is done here to use escrow. All you can do is make a point of asking about it when it would be necessary, or not trading without it. You may want to look through a couple of these topics.

Prevention is better than a cure. Please escrow. This is stickied in the marketplace goods section.

[WTS] Posting guidelines for physical goods This was a topic I made, when I was probably feeling similar to yourself.


2nd Part- This problem is solved by using the report button. I get it's there's really not much fun involved it's repetitive and not overly rewarding (unless you take satisfaction in it). Unfortunately that's all that can be done for that problem, but it can bring about a great change. This can show that more moderators are needed by showing the hard facts of how many posts need to be moderated daily.

No need for more sections unless you are trying to enlist people to join you on a reporting campaign. It may be inline with what they are doing in the Spambusters thread.

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January 12, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
 #10

You keep calling them 'bitcointalk escrows', but they are not 'bitcointalk escrows'. There is no agreement between bitcointalk and the escrows to offer those services. They have not been appointed by theymos or someone else to offer the services nor are they forced to do so. They dont pay a fee to bitcointalk (as far as I know) or work for the forum directly so you cant refer to them as 'bitcointalk escrows'. They are just trusted users, using the site to offer their services. You can do the same thing and you wouldn't be a 'bitcointalk escrow' or a 'non-bitcointalk escrow'.

If you sell your PC over ebay - should I call you an Official Ebay PC Dealer?
They may not have agreement between bitcointalk but they are the only people with feedback which can be trusted to be called bitcointalk escrows.
That's why they are not official but still our last hope to not being scammed.
Also consider the last complains about how people being scammed via bitfy, paxful and so, i believe our escrows proven from years is much better than 3rd party websites and their back coors.
No one will be appointed by theymos as escrow because if something goes wrong, this will affect theymos itself for promoting them as official escrows.

Yes they are bitcointalk escrows because they provide escrow service in bitcointalk.
I already said they are not official but still they provide service in bitcointalk only so they are bitcointalk escrows.

If I run translation services here, will I become "Bitcointalk translators" then?
No hard feelings but the term is a bit misleading to me.


Yes you will, but not official one same as the escrows.

But why everyone ignore the fact about the forgotten sections and everyone talk about the escrows ?
The problem with spam is huge and the moderators are not enough.

Just chiming in here...
Yes, we are not bound to and do not work for bitcointalk / the forum
And many of us offer our services outside the forum as well.
Being that, I would never recommend or use a 3rd party escrow service or site that makes you sign up for more garbage.
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January 13, 2019, 08:08:29 PM
 #11

You are trying to bridge very different ideas with your thread.

1st part - The term for these escrows is "Forum Trusted Escrow" hopefully that clears up the need for naming them. The reason they are used and the term is what I find floating in the Marketplace is because they have longevity, and a proven trackrecord for providing trustworthy escrow services.

Now the truth of that is it means nothing if 1 day one of them decides to take the funds and run, exit scams have happened. It was before my time afaik.

I point that out as people still need to pay attention to what they are doing and who they are trusting with their funds. This is because the forum doesn't moderate scams, because it involves a lot of resources and time; not to mention what you perceive as a scam may be legitimate business elsewhere. So due diligence is everyones responsibility.

Now your point of making people do this or that really flies in the face of less regulations within the forum. It is already widely accepted as the way business is done here to use escrow. All you can do is make a point of asking about it when it would be necessary, or not trading without it. You may want to look through a couple of these topics.

Prevention is better than a cure. Please escrow. This is stickied in the marketplace goods section.

[WTS] Posting guidelines for physical goods This was a topic I made, when I was probably feeling similar to yourself.


2nd Part- This problem is solved by using the report button. I get it's there's really not much fun involved it's repetitive and not overly rewarding (unless you take satisfaction in it). Unfortunately that's all that can be done for that problem, but it can bring about a great change. This can show that more moderators are needed by showing the hard facts of how many posts need to be moderated daily.

No need for more sections unless you are trying to enlist people to join you on a reporting campaign. It may be inline with what they are doing in the Spambusters thread.

Actually our forum escrows is Official escrows.
There is no need Theymos to say someone is official escrow but we the people using the forum.
We are bitcointalk the users, not only the owner, and consider we trust those people from years, and they are proven legit, we can call them official.
We, the people can give them the "official" meaning, and it is better to use them instead of 3rd party's.

Also the problem is never solved by using the report button because there is not enough moderators, and the spam there is 99% of the topics, which means from 500 pages of thread about altcoin marketplace, there is more than 400 topics which have no place there.
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January 13, 2019, 08:18:04 PM
 #12

I've bought some Bitcoin from JackG on a couple of occasions. When we do the deal we both have our wallets and banking online, and we can see the progress of both sides of the transaction. The whole thing can take less than 5 minutes. How would you introduce an escrow into that, and what benefit would it give to either of us. It just seems that it would increase the risk and the cost of the deal, and slow down the whole process.


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January 13, 2019, 08:21:16 PM
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Im talking about people like monbux,philip,mj,ognasty and people known from years here.
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January 13, 2019, 08:37:14 PM
 #14

Have you ever traded anything on bitcointalk ? i guess not

bitcoin escrow is great, a few highly trusted users but most of them are either very slow/picky or expensive to be honest, and this is one main reason that some people prefer to use some other "almost" instant escrow services. " don't PM me to ask  what are those , i don't want to be accused for shilling anything, DYOR".

if both parties agree on trusting a unicorn to be their escrow then why FORCE them to use forum escrow?

edit:

indeed , there is avery good chance scammers will suggest other fake-escrow and refuse to use the forum's escrow for the simple reason of scamming you, but this is not a good enough reason to "FORCE" anyone to use any particular service.

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January 13, 2019, 09:08:01 PM
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Have you ever traded anything on bitcointalk ? i guess not

bitcoin escrow is great, a few highly trusted users but most of them are either very slow/picky or expensive to be honest, and this is one main reason that some people prefer to use some other "almost" instant escrow services. " don't PM me to ask  what are those , i don't want to be accused for shilling anything, DYOR".

if both parties agree on trusting a unicorn to be their escrow then why FORCE them to use forum escrow?

edit:

indeed , there is avery good chance scammers will suggest other fake-escrow and refuse to use the forum's escrow for the simple reason of scamming you, but this is not a good enough reason to "FORCE" anyone to use any particular service.
Have i ever traded anything on bitcointalk ? guess not ?
Actually i've traded more than you ( in value) for sure.
If they want to use different 3rd party escrows, they can go there to use their services
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January 13, 2019, 09:17:21 PM
 #16


any debate with is probably a time-wasting machine. suit yourself dude.

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January 13, 2019, 09:57:37 PM
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any debate with is probably a time-wasting machine. suit yourself dude.
really ? claims the guy who said i never traded over the forum without even checking. Cheesy
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January 14, 2019, 05:08:57 PM
 #18

How many threads you see against paxful, bitfy and other 3rd party websites on our forum Huh I believe you can see many scam topics against them.
Now think, how threads you see against monbux, ognasty, philipma, mj and the other well known escrows? Zero?
This suggestion is only for our good
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