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Author Topic: Plagiarism as a result of cultural differences  (Read 592 times)
bitserve
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January 14, 2019, 12:33:42 PM
Last edit: January 14, 2019, 12:48:40 PM by bitserve
Merited by dbshck (6)
 #21

I think the clarification of what is meant by "plagiarism" stated later in the rules is pretty clear no matter what culture they are from.

~snip~
33. Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.[e]

~snip~
33. This includes both copying parts or the entirety of other users' posts or threads and copying content from external sources (e.g. other websites) and passing it as your own.

~snip~

Also, since I am a typical dumb American, I am monolingual. Therefore, I am not certain if a translated copy of the rules are available on the local boards. However, I believe many of the local boards do have a stickied post that gives users some idea what the rules are. If this is lacking, perhaps a push to make sure rules are available in as many languages as possible is in order. The challenge is finding capable users willing to do it.


I can say a copy of the translated rules in the local Spanish board does exists. I have not read it, but I can say the translation of "plagiarism" to Spanish would not really cover what I have seen in the bans appeals about plagiarism. I mean, reusing an inconsequential phrase from another post, that constitutes no original work of a certain value (ie, something that could be covered by copyright/intellectual property) would be no plagiarism.

Most (if not all) of the examples of banned users for "plagiarism" I have seen could obviously be considered complete shitposting though. And it is also obvious they don't offer anything of value to the forum (at least in those posts)... but it is not that they are attributing to themselves another person intelectual property just because of paraphrasing a worthless phrase/statement.

Not that I have ever do that (AFAIK) but I really learned what is considered "plagiarism" here by reading about those bans appeals that really surprised me on first instance.

I will now read the Spanish translation and see if it is clear enough or if some additional clarification would be needed to better be safe than sorry.

P.S.: After checking the translation of the rules in the Spanish local forum I see only rules up to 28 have been included:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=705523.0

There's nothing about plagiarism at least in the OP. Please someone correct me if I am wrong as I barely frequent the local forum.

Don't know the situation of other local subforums.

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January 14, 2019, 12:53:28 PM
Last edit: January 15, 2019, 08:05:46 AM by DdmrDdmr
Merited by dbshck (4), Welsh (3), Anduck (1)
 #22

<...>
In the Spanish local set of rules, rule number 33 (33. Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.[e]) is not included ... Rules stop at number 28, an thus lack the last 5 added rules in the translation. This is due to the fact that the post that includes the rules has not been edited since March 2017.
The author of the translation has barely been active during 2018, and thus has not been updating the post. I brought this to the attention of the local moderators, but have not since heard back.

The above non-sync between the rules written in English and those translated into local languages also happens on other local boards (last time I checked), and I posted about it here some time ago.

There are certain important threads whose ownership perhaps should be either be that of “the forum”, or at least transferrable by the moderator for cases such as these (with the pertinent tries to get the OP to sync the post himself as a first instance).

Edit: Created a thread on the matter (see Local Board forum rules asynchronisms), thread that currently lacks any flow of posts. Maybe it is not perceived as much of an issue.

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January 14, 2019, 01:28:37 PM
Last edit: January 14, 2019, 01:54:01 PM by bitserve
 #23

<...>
In the Spanish local set of rules, rule number 33 (33. Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.[e]) is not included ... Rules stop at number 28, an thus lack the last 5 added rules in the translation. This is due to the fact that the post that includes the rules has not been edited since March 2017.
The author of the translation has barely been active during 2018, and thus has not been updating the post. I brought this to the attention of the local moderators, but have not since heard back.

The above non-sync between the rules written in English and those translated into local languages also happens on other local boards (last time I checked), and I posted about it here some time ago.

There are certain important threads whose ownership perhaps should be either be that of “the forum”, or at least transferrable by the moderator for cases such as these (with the pertinent tries to get the OP to sync the post himself as a first instance).


That really looks like something that should be fixed.

From what I have seen, Theymos is usually way more receptive to specific viable solutions than unsolvable problems. For example, the way he handled the WO thread "issue" was absolutely perfect for everyone involved. And that was WAY more complex and even involved some considerable effort on his part and some minor changes to the forum.

So maybe if you or some of the other well standing members that are also involved in the Spanish forum would offer to fill the "position" it could be a straightforward process. Of course assuming dserrano is not really interested anymore or welcomes some help in there.


P.S.: dserrano5 - Last Active:   October 17, 2018, 04:46:01 AM - I don't think he is really that much interested anymore from what I see.

P.S.2: My mistake I see that the moderators of the Spanish local subforum are:

VGO - Last Active:   November 09, 2018, 08:22:03 PM
frankcuestein - Last Active:   January 01, 2019, 08:58:23 PM

Still not that much interested I guess, except maybe for frankcuestein.

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January 14, 2019, 01:35:23 PM
Merited by dbshck (2)
 #24

@DdmrDdmr
I asked long ago about the possibility to have multiple owners of one thread, but I haven't heard since. We don't have a local section, only a thread in the other languages and the OP is a newbie with 2 posts and last active back in march 2012. I thought since this is our official thread, it could be changed an updated a if someone share the ownership with the OP.
It can be a solution in your case too.

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January 14, 2019, 02:41:07 PM
 #25

I really respect the cultural differences each country have but is the 3rd group really the one hanging here in the forum? In all of your examples of cultural differences all of them are about students doing school work in each of their respective country, do you think the same understanding still applies in the forum where they just copy/paste posts just to complete a bounty requirement? I don't think so, I don't even think that the plagiarizers we have are students still studying in school in the first place. The best thing that this forum can do I guess is what you just have suggested which I doubt will really make a change at all to these kind of people.

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January 14, 2019, 03:44:54 PM
Merited by dbshck (2)
 #26

@DdmrDdmr
I asked long ago about the possibility to have multiple owners of one thread, but I haven't heard since. We don't have a local section, only a thread in the other languages and the OP is a newbie with 2 posts and last active back in march 2012. I thought since this is our official thread, it could be changed an updated a if someone share the ownership with the OP.
It can be a solution in your case too.

A moderator should be able to update those posts.

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January 14, 2019, 04:05:47 PM
 #27

In all of your examples of cultural differences all of them are about students doing school work in each of their respective country, do you think the same understanding still applies in the forum where they just copy/paste posts just to complete a bounty requirement?

Even the 'cultural' description on those students are wrong from my pov. I never remember we've been taught to not respect individual works or feels we should be uncomfortable when we cite someone on our papers. As collective as we are, individuals works are still respected ,even when we engage in online discussion.

One of the largest forum in my country, which is more 'carefree' than Bitcointalk still does not allow plagiarism. Even on Facebook, when some user posts a status that is similar to the status of somebody else, we 'bully' them. There is no cultural differences, we know plagiarism is bad.



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January 14, 2019, 07:40:57 PM
 #28

Even the 'cultural' description on those students are wrong from my pov.
I mean, even if your culture has no such thing as plagiarism, I would still think the old saying "When in Rome" would apply. When you want to get involved in a new community, it is wise to learn their customs before doing so.

However, given the vast number of "Why was I banned" threads that appear in Meta, and that >99% of them are because of plagiarism, I do think a red text warning below the "Post" and "Preview" buttons would be helpful.

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January 14, 2019, 07:54:06 PM
 #29

~snip~

Even the 'cultural' description on those students are wrong from my pov. I never remember we've been taught to not respect individual works or feels we should be uncomfortable when we cite someone on our papers. As collective as we are, individuals works are still respected ,even when we engage in online discussion.

One of the largest forum in my country, which is more 'carefree' than Bitcointalk still does not allow plagiarism. Even on Facebook, when some user posts a status that is similar to the status of somebody else, we 'bully' them. There is no cultural differences, we know plagiarism is bad.
I'm glad that you brought that up, I was afraid of mentioning this as I might offend a lot of people but I'm from an Asian country and the university I went to has a really big punishment for plagiarism, we even had a seminar on plagiarism and proper citation before we started on doing our research paper. So this Turnitin article has bugged me a lot as it made it look like most Asian countries don't know what plagiarism is. I guess Turnitin doesn't even proofread and fact check their own articles anymore which is pretty hypocritical on their part.

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January 15, 2019, 06:01:05 AM
 #30

Plagiarism is not a crime but it could lead to other things like copyright infringement. Being permanently banned without the person knowing that it’s not allowed is somewhat unacceptable to the person.

But still being a human, we should respect that we shouldn’t just copy other people’s stuff and post it as your own. But people just don’t acknowledge it, that’s where the problem comes. Not recognizing the author or the owner is subject to infringement.

The hardwork of a person no matter what it is, an article, an experiment, a scientific research, etc. You wouldn’t know what they have gone through to make that and not acknowledging it and just plain copying it is disheartening.

It’s not just cultural differences, it’s moral characteristic of a person on how they respect other people.




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January 15, 2019, 08:58:02 PM
 #31

I can see that bingo card we used so often in the ban appeals thread getting 10 "it's in my culture" options.

All the text you refer there is not about plagiarizing two lines with eth going up or down but, and let me quote: "ideas that are beneficial to and shared by the community are not individually attributed, but rather recognized as universal knowledge"
None of the two line bs copy paste garbage we have here is even close to that stats.

Besides, I really don't like grouping countries together and saying Asia, just how I don't like people talking about eastern or central Europeans and throwing in all the countries like all are the same. And we all know most of the copy posters here are not Chinese or Japanese and one of the countries with its own fair share is not even in Asia.

Plagiarism is not a crime but it could lead to other things like copyright infringement. Being permanently banned without the person knowing that it’s not allowed is somewhat unacceptable to the person.


Well, since on one hand, we have Confucianism how about we see the roman side of the story, Ignorantia juris non excusat  Grin

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January 16, 2019, 09:31:59 PM
 #32

I just think that more emphasise can and should be put on the problem of copy/pasting since that is The Rule and reason why so many members get banned + it creates a lot of work for the moderators of the forum dealing with banned accounts.
Highlighting the problem of copy/pasting the way I suggested or adding a warning next to the "Post" and "Preview" buttons like o_e_l_e_o and some other members did would be a nice feature i think.

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January 18, 2019, 07:41:24 PM
 #33

@DdmrDdmr
I asked long ago about the possibility to have multiple owners of one thread, but I haven't heard since. We don't have a local section, only a thread in the other languages and the OP is a newbie with 2 posts and last active back in march 2012. I thought since this is our official thread, it could be changed an updated a if someone share the ownership with the OP.
It can be a solution in your case too.

A moderator should be able to update those posts.

That means that I have to make a new post and ask a Mod to change it and every time we do a change I have bother the with the same request. I would prefer to have the right to change the initial post but the OP to still have control of if shows up one day.
I think the mods have better thins to do.

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January 18, 2019, 08:08:14 PM
 #34

Regarding point number 3, I have been on both sides of the coin, where my school forced me to literally by-heart word by word, and present stuff. And another, where they asked us not to do so at all, and use referencing, citation when presenting papers.

I have used Turnitin before, I hate it because it fucks up your university life, but I also know that it is good. Turnitin has this feature, where you could view the originality of the paper, excluding the citations and references.

BUT the forum's plagiarism policy doesn't collide with the cultural differences at all.

The forum doesn't even ask for referencing, but rather only citations(links), if you copy something. The forum is so lenient towards plagiarism cause, you have to refer to stuff in real life situations when you use the ideas from others. People should know that plagiarism is an offence, its their mistake if they don't,in 99% of the cases. Cause most of us have gone to universities and referencing and plagiarism is a big deal there.

Referencing won't make sense for a forum, but I THANK GOD we don't have that shit. Referencing one website takes time and is annoying. SO I DO NOT MIND CITING STUFF. OTHERS SHOULDN'T TOO.

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