Mining is getting me nowhere, what about poker?

[brian123321]

You should learn to KNOW what you are talking about before commenting  what is your theory based on?I THINK or I KNOW?Oh wait its obviously you have your DOCTORATE in" I THINK" If you READ A BOOk or TWO or even understood simple Math or read up on what I posted you would know its impossible for a CPU to Handle A BILLION calculatons!LOOK IT UP! it would take a cpu years and MONTHS ON MONTHS to shuffle the deck properly it can't do it! it's not  fast enough! Why do you think no one uses a CPU TO MINE BITCOIN? it can't handle the CALCULATIONS its too SLOW It's too STUPID!It cant even solve 500,000,000 Block  in a 5 second how do you think it will solve A BILLION calculations of a card deck? don't believe me just try and use a cpu to mine  and see how long it takes you too get a best share in the MILLIONS! let me know in a couple of years when you get that share that high lol and a poker deck has over a billion possibilities the TOP OF THE LINE INTEl or AMD will take years and years some months! even a 16 core processor can't do it a Quantum computer can't even do it! Its a Mathematical FACT LOOK IT UP! but if you knew anything about what your TALKING ABOUT or even about computers in general?and the processor you would know that ::)I'm A+ certified and a Cisco network graduate I know a thing or two about computers and what I'm talking about based on EDUCATION.

Do you have no idea how much bullshit you're talking here? For the record, I'm a mathematician, so you don't have to try and impress me with claiming things about "simple Math" or "Mathematical FACT LOOK IT UP!" (what's up with the weird capitalization anyway?).

A standard 52-card shuffled eck has about 226 bits of information (2^226 possible shuffles). If I roll dice (d6, to be precise), I can generate such a shuffle with 88 dice-rolls, which definitely isn't impossible. You also state that it is impossible for a CPU to "Handle A BILLION calculations!". My quad-core CPU runs at about 4 GHz, which is 4 billion clock ticks per second. According to Intels manual, integer addition (for example: 183 + 912) has a latency of 1 cycle and integer multiplication (183 * 912) has a latency of 3 cycles. So with the 16 billion clock cycles that my 4 CPU-cores run through per second, they could, in theory, perform 16 billion additions or just over 5 billion multiplications. Per second. Now most useful calculations will be a little bit more complicated, but the order of magnitude is there.

Fortunately, generating a shuffled deck doesn't take billions of calculations. It just takes a random 226 bit number. While a good random number generator is not straight forward to make on a computer, it's perfectly possible. The computer could sample static from a disconnected line-in / mic jack on the soundcard. This static noise should provide more than enough entropy for proper random number generation.

While the number of possible deck shuffles is indeed very large (a billion doesn't even do justice to the magnitude of the number), it is rather straightforward to generate it. And it is certainly not something that would take a high end CPU "years and year some months" (huh?). As an interesting comparison, a Bitcoin private key is a 256 bit number, where there are almost 2^256 possible private keys (so about a billion times more than the number of possible deck shuffles) and our computers have no problems randomly generating those by the boatload.

By not being able to give true random odds the system is very PREDICTABLE I can win over 80% of my hands all the time and everyone else could too if they knew the system.All the poker sites use the same software my bitcoin is worth way too much to bet with poker and the poker sites around are kind of hackey and after Fulltilt and losing thousands too insolvency and gov I'm all set with  ever giving a poker site my money again FUCK THAT lol ill take a live game @ FOXWOODS FTW! except if Pokerstars cameback to the states I would gladly go back . So i wont do it on these sites don't trust any of these sites like Exchanges Ill hold my own Bitcoin THANK YOU but I do play the freerolls   and i won my first one played last month and didn't even practice and won 120 satoshi chips paid 8th place in satoshi grindabit poker FREEROLL and won a paid freeroll on seals with clubs also with over a couple hundred people playing using same methods I've always use to predict the outcomes  while on fulltilt,ultimatebet,and pokerstars,and I will use the winning to play a big tournament soon its all House money with nothing to Lose
 The system isn't rigged against anyone everyone does get the same odds kind of so to speak but it has nothing to do with the cards you are holding in how you Win .The way i play my hands aren't based on card strength 90% of the time and I WIn majority regardless of what Im holding by the way so I know what I'm talking about I'm talking from experience you don't have any true poker odds  when you only have a million possibilities to pick from instead of a billion that changes the game completely its like playing blackjack and taking out the tens its no longer Blackjack its now Spanish blackjack with different ODDS and requires a change in playing style the game completely changes its not the same.But this would take MATH SKILL to Truly  understand that even complete randomness can be predicted this is how the likes of how students from MIT beat the HOUSE! Complete randomness can be predicted but something like this is obviously WAY WAY OVER YOUR HEAD  when you can't even spell MUCH!ROFL Go back to school son.................

Complete randomness can't, by its very definition, be predicted.

What can be predicted, sometimes, are sloppy implementations by casino operators. Regardless of the game or the bet or the system, if the operator isn't careful in properly implementing the software, it can be exploited. But this doesn't mean that it is fundamentally impossible to create a fair game that can't be cheated, unlike what you like to claim.

What school did you go too? If I were you I would seriously ask for my MONEY BACK!! Also to know never to send my kid to that school!lol Didn't they teach you to read about what you talk about first or too Learn something read about it?instead of talking out your ass!Since your too dumb to try and learn what your talking about I'll do the work for you a shuffle has a number variance of 8.0658x1067 way over a billion I never said it had a Billion just way overit it and way over your petty little pentium capabilities you obviously know nothing about computers Your still trying to compare REAL world numbers with random numbers generated by a computer and dice and cards are 2 different completely sets of odds and probabilities 12 random against against 52  which is over 4 times greater real Math GENIUS there A computer has to always live by a PROGRAMMED SET OF RULES as true  randomness doesn't have to ever but maybe if you read anything on psuedo number generators instead of talking out your ass because you know jack shit!! lol and read and learn how they actually work you might realize it will never be the same ever....Learn something and maybe you will EARN something DUMB ASS.........
http://www.cigital.com/papers/download/developer_gambling.php
http://www.khanacademy.org/math/applied-math/cryptography/crypt/v/random-vs--pseudorandom-number-generators#!( watch the VIDEO)
http://voices.yahoo.com/random-number-generators-vs-pseudo-random-number-generators-3495601.html
http://www.random.org/randomness/
http://www.lauradhamilton.com/random-lessons-online-poker-exploit
http://voices.yahoo.com/random-number-generators-vs-pseudo-random-number-generators-3495601.html

You do realize it is possible to argue your point without insulting people right?  When you insult people you lose credibility.  Just my 2 cents.

[brian123321]

You should learn to KNOW what you are talking about before commenting  what is your theory based on?I THINK or I KNOW?Oh wait its obviously you have your DOCTORATE in" I THINK" If you READ A BOOk or TWO or even understood simple Math or read up on what I posted you would know its impossible for a CPU to Handle A BILLION calculatons!LOOK IT UP! it would take a cpu years and MONTHS ON MONTHS to shuffle the deck properly it can't do it! it's not  fast enough! Why do you think no one uses a CPU TO MINE BITCOIN? it can't handle the CALCULATIONS its too SLOW It's too STUPID!It cant even solve 500,000,000 Block  in a 5 second how do you think it will solve A BILLION calculations of a card deck? don't believe me just try and use a cpu to mine  and see how long it takes you too get a best share in the MILLIONS! let me know in a couple of years when you get that share that high lol and a poker deck has over a billion possibilities the TOP OF THE LINE INTEl or AMD will take years and years some months! even a 16 core processor can't do it a Quantum computer can't even do it! Its a Mathematical FACT LOOK IT UP! but if you knew anything about what your TALKING ABOUT or even about computers in general?and the processor you would know that ::)I'm A+ certified and a Cisco network graduate I know a thing or two about computers and what I'm talking about based on EDUCATION.

Do you have no idea how much bullshit you're talking here? For the record, I'm a mathematician, so you don't have to try and impress me with claiming things about "simple Math" or "Mathematical FACT LOOK IT UP!" (what's up with the weird capitalization anyway?).

A standard 52-card shuffled eck has about 226 bits of information (2^226 possible shuffles). If I roll dice (d6, to be precise), I can generate such a shuffle with 88 dice-rolls, which definitely isn't impossible. You also state that it is impossible for a CPU to "Handle A BILLION calculations!". My quad-core CPU runs at about 4 GHz, which is 4 billion clock ticks per second. According to Intels manual, integer addition (for example: 183 + 912) has a latency of 1 cycle and integer multiplication (183 * 912) has a latency of 3 cycles. So with the 16 billion clock cycles that my 4 CPU-cores run through per second, they could, in theory, perform 16 billion additions or just over 5 billion multiplications. Per second. Now most useful calculations will be a little bit more complicated, but the order of magnitude is there.

Fortunately, generating a shuffled deck doesn't take billions of calculations. It just takes a random 226 bit number. While a good random number generator is not straight forward to make on a computer, it's perfectly possible. The computer could sample static from a disconnected line-in / mic jack on the soundcard. This static noise should provide more than enough entropy for proper random number generation.

While the number of possible deck shuffles is indeed very large (a billion doesn't even do justice to the magnitude of the number), it is rather straightforward to generate it. And it is certainly not something that would take a high end CPU "years and year some months" (huh?). As an interesting comparison, a Bitcoin private key is a 256 bit number, where there are almost 2^256 possible private keys (so about a billion times more than the number of possible deck shuffles) and our computers have no problems randomly generating those by the boatload.

By not being able to give true random odds the system is very PREDICTABLE I can win over 80% of my hands all the time and everyone else could too if they knew the system.All the poker sites use the same software my bitcoin is worth way too much to bet with poker and the poker sites around are kind of hackey and after Fulltilt and losing thousands too insolvency and gov I'm all set with  ever giving a poker site my money again FUCK THAT lol ill take a live game @ FOXWOODS FTW! except if Pokerstars cameback to the states I would gladly go back . So i wont do it on these sites don't trust any of these sites like Exchanges Ill hold my own Bitcoin THANK YOU but I do play the freerolls   and i won my first one played last month and didn't even practice and won 120 satoshi chips paid 8th place in satoshi grindabit poker FREEROLL and won a paid freeroll on seals with clubs also with over a couple hundred people playing using same methods I've always use to predict the outcomes  while on fulltilt,ultimatebet,and pokerstars,and I will use the winning to play a big tournament soon its all House money with nothing to Lose
 The system isn't rigged against anyone everyone does get the same odds kind of so to speak but it has nothing to do with the cards you are holding in how you Win .The way i play my hands aren't based on card strength 90% of the time and I WIn majority regardless of what Im holding by the way so I know what I'm talking about I'm talking from experience you don't have any true poker odds  when you only have a million possibilities to pick from instead of a billion that changes the game completely its like playing blackjack and taking out the tens its no longer Blackjack its now Spanish blackjack with different ODDS and requires a change in playing style the game completely changes its not the same.But this would take MATH SKILL to Truly  understand that even complete randomness can be predicted this is how the likes of how students from MIT beat the HOUSE! Complete randomness can be predicted but something like this is obviously WAY WAY OVER YOUR HEAD  when you can't even spell MUCH!ROFL Go back to school son.................

Complete randomness can't, by its very definition, be predicted.

What can be predicted, sometimes, are sloppy implementations by casino operators. Regardless of the game or the bet or the system, if the operator isn't careful in properly implementing the software, it can be exploited. But this doesn't mean that it is fundamentally impossible to create a fair game that can't be cheated, unlike what you like to claim.

What school did you go too? If I were you I would seriously ask for my MONEY BACK!! Also to know never to send my kid to that school!lol Didn't they teach you to read about what you talk about first or too Learn something read about it?instead of talking out your ass!Since your too dumb to try and learn what your talking about I'll do the work for you a shuffle has a number variance of 8.0658x1067 way over a billion I never said it had a Billion just way overit it and way over your petty little pentium capabilities you obviously know nothing about computers Your still trying to compare REAL world numbers with random numbers generated by a computer and dice and cards are 2 different completely sets of odds and probabilities 12 random against against 52  which is over 4 times greater real Math GENIUS there A computer has to always live by a PROGRAMMED SET OF RULES as true  randomness doesn't have to ever but maybe if you read anything on psuedo number generators instead of talking out your ass because you know jack shit!! lol and read and learn how they actually work you might realize it will never be the same ever....Learn something and maybe you will EARN something DUMB ASS.........
http://www.cigital.com/papers/download/developer_gambling.php
http://www.khanacademy.org/math/applied-math/cryptography/crypt/v/random-vs--pseudorandom-number-generators#!( watch the VIDEO)
http://voices.yahoo.com/random-number-generators-vs-pseudo-random-number-generators-3495601.html
http://www.random.org/randomness/
http://www.lauradhamilton.com/random-lessons-online-poker-exploit
http://voices.yahoo.com/random-number-generators-vs-pseudo-random-number-generators-3495601.html

Im going to chime in here.  As a fair warning I do not know alot about this stuff and just going responding to what the previous guy said to cause you to insult him.

Your first link shows how these people cracked the RNG (im going to refer to it as that) and were able to predict what the deck was every hand online.  Personally i was around when this came out.  This was years ago when i played online poker a lot.  I remember this story breaking on 2+2 and reading about it.  Like it also mentions on the page is that it is possible to create a random deck but the code that was used was flawed.  I believe you are arguing with the user Rannasha and he clearly said the same thing these guys said.  It is possible to create a truly random deck if it is done right.

Your second link also mentions that it is possible to use static noise or random sound to generate a truly random number.  Rannasha also mentioned this is in post.  He said a mic could be used to generate a random sound.

I found the third link to be pretty much pointless.  It also says that RNGS are arguably random as if they are not they have not found a pattern or know how to find a pattern in them yet.

Your fourth link once again mentions TRUE random number generators that once again hits on what Rannasha originally said using static noise from a mic to make a true random number

Your fifth link is the same story as your first link

And finally your 6th link is the same as your 3rd link.

So basically what you have done is proven, by the links you pasted, that what Rannasha said is not only absolutely doable it is also a true random number.

I think Rannasha owes you a tip for proving his/her point for them.  

[thejewelrytech]

What people are failing to realize is a processor is fully incapable of producing a random number on its own and its run on 32 bit programming to produce the random numbers which produces the seed used to produce a random outcome in a real deck of cards, there are 52! (approximately 2^226) possible unique shuffles. Also  that the seed needs to pick from a for a 32-bit random number generator and all computers are limited to being 32-bit number or 64 bit number MAX!We need a computer 4 times the power that is available today! bet even then it is just a perceived randomness nothing can simulate the real life organic factor its always going to be something like it or close but never it, meaning that there are just over 4 billion to 8 billion possible seeds and 64 bit is only 8 billion. Since a PRNG deck is reinitialized and the generator re-seeded before each shuffle, only 4 billion possible shuffles can result from  a 32 bit algorithm and 8 billion from a 64 bit computer when  around 32 billion is needed. Four billion and eight billion possible shuffles is alarmingly less than 52 a shuffle that has a number variance of 2^226 !.Do the math a 32 bit can't do it and 64 bit programming  doesn't fair much better all computers are limited by this factor there's no way around it its like trying to fill a 64 gallon jug with 226 gallons of water! no matter what they use until we are able to create minimum 226 +bit computers able to process  over 28 billion calculations!!!!! we are nowhere near that yet  white noise and what not only produce about a fraction of the possible outcomes and all these poker programs only really use a limited amount of the deck and what they can come up with is a somewhat fair for all but it will never be real poker with the odds of reality taking away all regular poker knowledge almost go out the window because you don't have the 2^226 probability your stuck with only 2^32 to 2^64 that changes everything that is why you will see over time the same card scenarios used because of these factors.It can make sure it can appear random a random couple million but not 2^226 that's a huge math difference.Computers today can never ever truly be random the math doesn't lie what you always get is perceived randomness the best a computer is ever capable of !not TRUE RANDOMNESS it can never be duplicated but only somewhat imitated..........  inlayman terms  2^226  address cant fit in a 32 bit address or 64 bit address that computers are bound too! 2^32 nor  a 2^64 processor and computer software is completely incapable of this feat so the best they can do is shuffle a   a limited amount of sequences that are able to be picked from the seed that determines the oucome of cards  4 billion and 8 billion respectively as you can see in the math it's quite obvious no computer today can achieve true random this hasn't changed over the years its the same now as it was back then we are still stuck with the same problem of not being able to achieve 2^226 as in postof link one you can see that cigital is the same company that reviews pokerstars stats and they lay out how their algorithm works they don't use 2^226 because all those cards won't come into play so what they do is use the maximum amount of cards that they can achieve true enough randomness with so its fair for all as they say but it isn't fair when you don't have 2^226 odds of hitting a ace like a real game of poker your left with a watered down randomness of 2^32 or 2^64 which is much more predictable then 2^226 . this completely changes the real game of poker because these poker programs aren't able to compute such a large number as 2^226.You take anything away by a milli percent it's not the same game it changes everything even 1 % differance changes everything but were talking almost 4 times the size of randomness differance that's huge its not the same game with these odds you will never have the same odds as in a real game in hitting your desired card so you can't possibly play things the same as in a real game the odds just aren't simply there people are doomed to fail if they play it as live poker........
 If someone wants to prove me wrong put up PROOF other words your just stating what you think? not what you know the proof is in the second link also the video shows and proves also how it is scientifically proving fact true randomness can't match nor duplicate what happens in real life it is called the random WOT  where the next move is always unpredictable and overtime psuedo generator starts to always become predictable computers are DETERMINISTIC and have to do what they are told and programmed to do with rules and true randomness has no rules this is a technological hurdle that can't  simply be overcome the math doesn't lie unless you can somehow prove 32 bit or a 64 bit address  capped at 2^32  and 2^64 can fit something as big as 2^226 in it? this case is closed.......This is how it can never be achieved by a computer and this can all be figured out by reading these things.............................
And I give respect when respect is giving if you come at me?I'll come at you!!! rash is first insults me .......then insult my intelligence by claiming to be a MATH MATHEMATICIAN! come on seriously .... lol and he couldn't figure out 2^226 is way way  larger than 4 billion which correlates too 2^32 for you slow people who haven't been paying attention remember? that he said his processor could handle the calculations so THINKS can  handle randomness? and nobody caught that!! lol  ROFL that is just TROLL GOLD and a insult to MATH..............
1GVHjQbBcQcevigT5nwShFt2mCyi8YqKrv

[bthomas8]

I've only managed to get like .25 bitcoins so far from mining ( a month) and i was thinking maybe i can grow it faster by playing online bitcoin poker.
Im a pretty decent player and of course there is a big chance of me losing, but i am willing to take the risk.

Do any of you guys do this? If so, which site do you use?

I am just going to chime in on the poster's original question.  I enjoy playing poker and have been fortunate to do well.  At this point, SealswithClubs has the players and I play there however at the same time I play at BetcoinPoker.com because I play to win btc and they have 24 GTD tournaments and a freeroll daily.  They have fewer players than seals which gives everyone a better chance of winning and some of the tournaments can play with only 3 players.  I highly recommend it if you are trying to really win btc, they also have the best software and great support.

[niki]

Hi,

if you are still working with bitcoins, there can be one more idea on how to earn them.

You can run your own bitcoin poker room with bitcoin withdraws and depositing options. Here's the bitcoin network you can join for free http://www.enterrabitcoinpoker.com/ No start-up fees, no need to get a license or establish offshore company. Just concentrate on marketing effords. Feel free to PM me for more details or write them directly at sales@enterra-poker.com

Cheers!