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owlcatz
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January 16, 2019, 12:25:19 AM
 #21

Merits were officially meant to help this forum with spam and shit-posting so that users would actually have to WORK to rank up.,

Giving random merits to shit posters like this is exactly the opposite of what they were meant for IMO, but hey, you are the source, not me... Roll Eyes 
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micgoossens
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January 16, 2019, 12:27:39 AM
 #22

then why would it be so wrong?
It's not unless it's a pattern of rewarding shitposters, which I don't see here.  If I thought OP was abusing the merit system, my posts would be quite different.  In my mind I picture him as a hooka pipe-smoking hippie spreading free love around as if it were the 1960s.  As I said, if he got made a merit source in the first place he's probably not a serial merit mis-user.  True, we've had a couple of those but Theymos picks them pretty well.

yeah thats true he has been MADE a source so that must count for something...., just strange to not seeing some other sources helping out a companion of the JOB "meritwork" , I think most sources are doing a great job, and I absolutely understand that its normal for one given sometimes a generous boost toward another source or GUY that " some source could like"  etc

but when a fellow SOURCE member has a moment of being generous "even not toward spammers etc" then I just cannot follow why he don't get any support from fellow MERITSOURCES ..... (its all the same team you guys) Smiley

@pharmacist, I know you do a great work around here, nothing wrong to say about that!
but some did react kind of STUPID on what Globb0 asked and did..... (still see the members that have been rewarded where all "older members")
no new guys, or beggars,  Globb0 wouldn't give them a chance.... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
bitserve
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January 16, 2019, 12:32:43 AM
 #23

not stupid for sure, but all have had there moment of generosity
In my opinion I don't think merits should be generously handed out, as it has nothing to do with a "free will gift",it's a "gift" that should be earned,giving out merits freely just for the sake of generosity shouldn't be acceptable as in no time we'll end up ranking up users who shouldn't in anyway rank up
if it is toward polite people and somewhat "true forum members" then why would it be so wrong?
So users would use "sir","ma" etc Indiscriminately all in the name of being polite could rank up huh,without actually doing anything?,hell no!

It is interesting what you say there. We can theorize about it. I would say that if certain positive (for the community) acts would be RANDOMLY rewarded, the outcome would be an overall increase of those positive acts. I mean, if good manners or a particular positive behaviour would be known to be randomly rewarded the end result would be those good manners or particular behaviour would be seen most often no matter if that particular post gets rewarded or not.

Of course if it got rewarded every time or if all sources shared the same inclination to reward those very same posts, shitposters would try to trick the system and take advantage of that knowledge.

One could even argue that, even in that case, we would at least have a more polite and well mannered community even if for the probability/certainty of obtaining a reward.

In the end, it is just balance what counts and different merit sources having different (and dynamically changing) criteria is what builds that diversified balance.

... Can we just move on FFS? Smiley

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January 16, 2019, 12:38:53 AM
Merited by bitserve (1)
 #24

but when a fellow SOURCE member has a moment of being generous "even not toward spammers etc" then I just cannot follow why he don't get any support from fellow MERITSOURCES ..... (its all the same team you guys) Smiley
Well in my particular case, I would not have merited those posts, so I don't feel the need to give my sMerits to OP.  He either needs to wait for his source supply to get replenished or ask Theymos for some more, like I did.  Know what I'm saying?  As I said, I'm not yelling at OP for meriting shitposts--but I'm also not going to offer help in this case other than with my words.

... Can we just move on FFS? Smiley
My thoughts exactly, but I'm sure OP still wants Theymos to see this.  I think.

micgoossens
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January 16, 2019, 12:47:27 AM
Last edit: January 16, 2019, 01:11:02 AM by micgoossens
 #25

not stupid for sure, but all have had there moment of generosity
In my opinion I don't think merits should be generously handed out, as it has nothing to do with a "free will gift",it's a "gift" that should be earned,giving out merits freely just for the sake of generosity shouldn't be acceptable as in no time we'll end up ranking up users who shouldn't in anyway rank up
if it is toward polite people and somewhat "true forum members" then why would it be so wrong?
So users would use "sir","ma" etc Indiscriminately all in the name of being polite could rank up huh,without actually doing anything?,hell no!

just as money or BTC, isn't anything as well to give out for free, sometimes shit happens, and sometimes those things create good vibes and closer community...... the scammers and spammers are always caught fast so no problem there, and most people that have gained those merit of Globb0 are almost all minimum full member till legendary's.... as many post go's unmerit where they should been merit, yeah now they have one the other way around and being compensated for some merit missing Wink
I guess some poster as those on that list don't deserve merits... most of them very establish members, and many higher ranked that have to work with the merit system to rank up, if they are good quality posters then why be botherd, I forgot some but those I know have many good quality posts and BEST intention toward the forum, so why would YOU say to denied them ??
 
Bitcoinaire
AlcoHoDL
Cryptotourist
kenzawak
ivomm
bitcoinPsycho
VB1001
buwaytress
exstasie
Icygreen
Steamtyme
RealMachasm
kurious
somac.
Kylapoiss
vapourminer
bitserve
Totscha
d_eddie
julian071
xhomerx10
Phil_S
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LFC_Bitcoin

Did forgot Some as well.....
micgoossens
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January 16, 2019, 12:54:40 AM
 #26

nicely said bitserve, understand the pharmaman as well ..... (he gets it, but not wanna get in the mix, nothing wrong with that, little pity but understandable)

hope someone give him some merit out of camaraderie Wink

hey good night in here 

#support Globb0 a bit THX
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January 16, 2019, 01:08:58 AM
Merited by suchmoon (7), The Pharmacist (3), vapourminer (1), bitserve (1)
 #27

I dont come out of the hole'n the Wall much..  I don"t care for the endless ad campaigns, trolls and the "I know better than you because I am screaming louder" mentality that I find prevalent in many posts out "here". Imho the merit system is obviously flawed despite theymos and the "meta" crew's best intentions. It's either a semi-functional beta at best or a self perpetuating circle jerk at worst.

I do tend to be of the mind set that something is better than nothing however and do appreciate the hard work involved for some. That being said, I am having a issue with this thread for some reason. When people start telling other people how to think my censorship hackles rise and the warning bells start clamoring.

Here is a example. These two have made such a impression on me with some of their thoughtful and insightful post's over the years that I ended up putting them on my DT list. I have had no trades with them or any other interactions but I still feel as though they are "trustful". I haven't searched through ever single post nor will I, but I do wonder however if they feel they have earned the 2300+ merits that the community has bestowed upon them. I suspect there might be some doubt.

-snipped_
That's not really how it works.

-snipped-
I agree with you, but there's limits.

My point is here are two well respected members telling other people how to think and act..   I am not sure it could be more of an anti-thesis of what bitcoin is all about if it tried. The merit system has to be more than just rewarding the same 1% of people who make quality post's. This is a subjective proposition that has to be intuited at the users discretion. It has to be a way to engage and draw new participation or we will end up in a very small echo chamber. It's to the point that I almost refuse to merit legendary members at all unless it is truly profound or cutting edge. I try and bestow what little merit I gain to newbies trying to gain a foothold so as to entice more participation as a whole or to member who I feel are close to ranking up a level.

I think Globbo's point was to reward and encourage decency and politeness...plain and simple. That seems admirable and a good use case for merits if I have ever heard one.

Just my two sats.
tc
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January 16, 2019, 01:17:45 AM
Merited by suchmoon (7), vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1), khaled0111 (1), Coin-1 (1), Toxic2040 (1)
 #28

My point is here are two well respected members telling other people how to think and act..   I am not sure it could be more of an anti-thesis of what bitcoin is all about if it tried. The merit system has to be more than just rewarding the same 1% of people who make quality post's. This is a subjective proposition that has to be intuited at the users discretion. It has to be a way to engage and draw new participation or we will end up in a very small echo chamber. It's to the point that I almost refuse to merit legendary members at all unless it is truly profound or cutting edge. I try and bestow what little merit I gain to newbies trying to gain a foothold so as to entice more participation as a whole or to member who I feel are close to ranking up a level.

I think Globbo's point was to reward and encourage decency and politeness...plain and simple. That seems admirable and a good use case for merits if I have ever heard one.
This is where me, and you disagree completely. I don't care who I send merits too, as long as their post is deserving. I don't factor in trust or any other outside factors other than the post that I'm looking at. Does this user normally make good posts? If so I might go, and look at some of their others, and merit them individually. But, I won't let that stop me meriting a user 1, 2 or 10 times in a row. I don't care about the 1% mentality, but I do appreciate those that take the time to look for unrecognized posters among the community. The fact is there are some exceptional posters within this forum, and they deserve as much recognition as others. What I don't agree with is rewarding members for being polite. That's ridiculous from my point of view. However, I do agree that's nice to merit those who don't get merit often, but I'll only do that if their post is up to standard. I think it's true that a lot of the merit is recycled between the same members, but you know why? Because they're constantly putting out good content that deserves merit. I don't have a problem with that. However, having said that what other users do with their merit is up to them. They don't need to look for verification or approval. They can come up with their own guidelines, and use their own initiative when giving it out. I also don't have a problem with that.

Globbo's motive might be generous, and admirable. However, that doesn't mean anyone else has to agree. If he is a merit source then he can wait for his merit to replenish like the rest of us merit sources. However, asking for merit to distribute themselves when its not even to good quality posts isn't something I'd expect from anyone. Sure, good quality posts are subjective, but I think most would agree that some of the posts are low quality content at best.

micgoossens
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January 16, 2019, 01:19:11 AM
 #29

I dont come out of the hole'n the Wall much..  I don"t care for the endless ad campaigns, trolls and the "I know better than you because I am screaming louder" mentality that I find prevalent in many posts out "here". Imho the merit system is obviously flawed despite theymos and the "meta" crew's best intentions. It's either a semi-functional beta at best or a self perpetuating circle jerk at worst.

I do tend to be of the mind set that something is better than nothing however and do appreciate the hard work involved for some. That being said, I am having a issue with this thread for some reason. When people start telling other people how to think my censorship hackles rise and the warning bells start clamoring.

Here is a example. These two have made such a impression on me with some of their thoughtful and insightful post's over the years that I ended up putting them on my DT list. I have had no trades with them or any other interactions but I still feel as though they are "trustful". I haven't searched through ever single post nor will I, but I do wonder however if they feel they have earned the 2300+ merits that the community has bestowed upon them. I suspect there might be some doubt.

-snipped_
That's not really how it works.

-snipped-
I agree with you, but there's limits.

My point is here are two well respected members telling other people how to think and act..   I am not sure it could be more of an anti-thesis of what bitcoin is all about if it tried. The merit system has to be more than just rewarding the same 1% of people who make quality post's. This is a subjective proposition that has to be intuited at the users discretion. It has to be a way to engage and draw new participation or we will end up in a very small echo chamber. It's to the point that I almost refuse to merit legendary members at all unless it is truly profound or cutting edge. I try and bestow what little merit I gain to newbies trying to gain a foothold so as to entice more participation as a whole or to member who I feel are close to ranking up a level.

I think Globbo's point was to reward and encourage decency and politeness...plain and simple. That seems admirable and a good use case for merits if I have ever heard one.

Just my two sats.
tc


Excuse me and sorry for having NO sendable merit left

Your way when out of MERIT.... +5WO merits


Many sources just filling up each other, I also always think not everybody “as myself” can always talk high tech quality Posts.....

But many do their very very best expressing theirselfs in english, not the mother language, and just have the best intentions and longterm perspectives for BTC, that with Some politenes and good humor ..... isn’t that Nice for the BTC community as well?

Again good night me out
The Pharmacist
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January 16, 2019, 01:31:49 AM
 #30

I do wonder however if they feel they have earned the 2300+ merits that the community has bestowed upon them. I suspect there might be some doubt.
Oh I'm sure there a lot of doubt.  I have no control over who gives me merits, though.  Foxpup in particular seems to have a hard-on for my posts, but I didn't ask for them, I don't know him, and I don't think I've had so much as a single PM from him.

My point is here are two well respected members telling other people how to think and act..  
I wasn't trying to do that, but I'm exercising my own right to not merit OP's post and I'm just giving my opinion.  I'm opinionated for sure, but OP is free to do as he pleases with his sMerits and I couldn't stop him if I wanted to.  I tried to get across that I have no beef with him, but obviously I'm not communicating it well.

It's to the point that I almost refuse to merit legendary members at all unless it is truly profound or cutting edge. I try and bestow what little merit I gain to newbies trying to gain a foothold so as to entice more participation as a whole or to member who I feel are close to ranking up a level.
I have said almost the exact same thing recently, that I do my best to favor the lower-ranked members who 'need' the merit to rank up, and if you look at my merit-giving history you ought to be able to see that I try to spread the love around as far and wide as I can.  I don't think what you'll see is me constantly meriting the same members over and over.  There's nothing I'd like more than to have a bunch of great posts by Newbie to Sr. Member accounts, but those are scarce in the sections I frequent.  

When I try to find good posts in sections like Bitcoin Discussion or Economics, it's really tough.  The sad fact is that most people just write one line responses to the thread's title, usually in terrible English, and often it's the more senior members who write the thoughtful posts--I see it again and again.  But hey, glad you came by to voice your opinion which I considered thoughtful and thus (in my eyes) worthy of some merit.  Everyone has their own standards.

Edit:
Which is actually odd. You would think that the Economics section in particular would be a great place for in depth analysis, and discussion relating to that.
Sometimes it is, which is why I read a lot of threads there.  Hydrogen starts quite a few threads with interesting news article quotes and sparks the discussion with his input on the article.  Sometimes I give him merits (he's a Hero member, BTW), sometimes not, but I'm always looking for relative newcomers who make good posts in threads like his--and those are kind of rare.  The Economics section is one of the ones where a lot of garbage posters go to unload their one liners for whatever bounty they're in, just like BD but not quite as bad.

What can I say, I'm picky when it comes to giving out merits but I think I should be.  That was the whole point behind the inception of the merit system.  I'm pretty sure Theymos didn't create it just for shits & giggles.

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January 16, 2019, 01:35:07 AM
 #31

When I try to find good posts in sections like Bitcoin Discussion or Economics, it's really tough.  The sad fact is that most people just write one line responses to the thread's title, usually in terrible English, and often it's the more senior members who write the thoughtful posts--I see it again and again.  But hey, glad you came by to voice your opinion which I considered thoughtful and thus (in my eyes) worthy of some merit.  Everyone has their own standards.

Which is actually odd. You would think that the Economics section in particular would be a great place for in depth analysis, and discussion relating to that. I believe Bitcoin Discussion is one of the most merited areas of the forum from memory. However, I can't be sure about the Economics section. New members will always have their facts skewed, and some of their knowledge mixed up. That's natural, and we've all been through it. But, we should also be looking for members who start great discussion. Of course, it needs to somewhat constructive, and not just a simple question that triggers the discussion. 

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January 16, 2019, 01:37:24 AM
Merited by bitserve (1)
 #32

My point is here are two well respected members telling other people how to think and act..

I didn't intend it like that. Simply telling the OP how their post sounds like to me. You should be more worried if I stop injecting my opinion where nobody asks for it - that would mean I'm probably cooking up some world domination plan by being nice to people Smiley

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January 16, 2019, 01:52:57 AM
Merited by Welsh (2), vapourminer (1)
 #33

This is where me, and you disagree completely. I don't care who I send merits too, as long as their post is deserving. I don't factor in trust or any other outside factors other than the post that I'm looking at. Does this user normally make good posts? If so I might go, and look at some of their others, and merit them individually. But, I won't let that stop me meriting a user 1, 2 or 10 times in a row. I don't care about the 1% mentality, but I do appreciate those that take the time to look for unrecognized posters among the community. The fact is there are some exceptional posters within this forum, and they deserve as much recognition as others. What I don't agree with is rewarding members for being polite. That's ridiculous from my point of view. However, I do agree that's nice to merit those who don't get merit often, but I'll only do that if their post is up to standard. I think it's true that a lot of the merit is recycled between the same members, but you know why? Because they're constantly putting out good content that deserves merit. I don't have a problem with that. However, having said that what other users do with their merit is up to them. They don't need to look for verification or approval. They can come up with their own guidelines, and use their own initiative when giving it out. I also don't have a problem with that.

Globbo's motive might be generous, and admirable. However, that doesn't mean anyone else has to agree. If he is a merit source then he can wait for his merit to replenish like the rest of us merit sources. However, asking for merit to distribute themselves when its not even to good quality posts isn't something I'd expect from anyone. Sure, good quality posts are subjective, but I think most would agree that some of the posts are low quality content at best.

Well..we can agree to disagree then. Look, I will admit readily that - 1) Begging for merit is a no no, though I am not sure that's the case here.  2) Meriting sh*t posts shouldn't happen as much as it does. 3) I am as guilty as the next person of sending my merits to generally the same circle of people for the reasons you mentioned above. They make quality content and I enjoy it and like to show my appreciation.

This is the root of the problem I feel, I like to call it the Peter Pan syndrome for lack of a better name. I have found over the years that many "adults" seem to forget the shear joy and freedom that the child mind enjoys. There are no barriers or stigma to corral your thought's or excitement. I find that the legendary and the giant's who's post's we gravitate toward's tend to forget how large the entry barrier is to participation is around here. Its intimidating for many to write down their thought's and have them criticized out in the public. This is not blame..its just a statement of what I consider fact. So when I see a new poster I tend to merit their post even though it might be below the threshold I think necessary to have earned a merit. The same goes double when I see someone do something kind or generous. I for one would like to see more of this.  ymmv.
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January 16, 2019, 02:14:25 AM
Merited by The Pharmacist (2)
 #34

Globb0 attitude is fun. Merits should flow, and giving smerits as an incentive could be better than always sustain an eternal circlejerk. But if he is a Merit Source, this attitude should be questioned. The idea is that a Merit Source sends merits for great posts that were useful, not to random posts for fun.

Merit source is a task, not a bonus.


The point of this is to demonstrate your ability to give out merit usefully.
 

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January 16, 2019, 04:38:39 AM
 #35

Best solution right now, if you can't wait like other merit sources for your merit to replenish before you start meriting again and don't have earned smerits to send then Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source. I'm sure your follow merit sources will be glad to help merit those posts you report there.

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January 16, 2019, 04:51:43 AM
Last edit: January 16, 2019, 05:36:57 AM by Coolcryptovator
 #36

Best solution right now, if you can't wait like other merit sources for your merit to replenish before you start meriting again and don't have earned smerits to send then Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source. I'm sure your follow merit sources will be glad to help merit those posts you report there.
It's not going to happen. As I mentioned on my first reply he is spending merit on shitpost then how you expect that he could find good post. Will you encourage to send merit on this kind of post ? I don't think even any others merit sources will consider to send merit such as shitpost. Problem isn't about merit budget, problem is he sending merit on shitpost.

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bones261
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January 16, 2019, 05:08:10 AM
 #37

Best solution right now, if you can't wait like other merit sources for your merit to replenish before you start meriting again and don't have earned smerits to send then Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source. I'm sure your follow merit sources will be glad to help merit those posts you report there.
Its doesn't going to happen. As I mentioned on my first reply he is spending merit on shitpost then how you expect that he could find good post. Will you encourage to send merit on this kind of post ? I don't think even any others merit sources will consider to send merit such as shitpost. Problem isn't about merit budget, problem is he sending merit on shitpost.

I wouldn't exactly call them "shitposts." People are just posting their guess on what a price should be to participate in a contest. However, I agree with you. They are not exactly merit worthy. I shouldn't complain too much though, since Globb0 did give me 2 merits for my guess.  Grin Not exactly my best work. Perhaps if Mic runs another contest, he can give out a bonus if people put some kind of rationale on exactly why they picked the price.(He's done that before.) I'm a sucker in giving merits to people who post charts along with some TA.

......
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CryptopreneurBrainboss
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January 16, 2019, 05:32:36 AM
 #38

Its doesn't It isn't going to happen. As I mentioned on my first reply he is spending merit on shitpost then how you expect that he could find good post.

Don't forget that thread is like a court so when he report 2-3 posts and they're all shitpost as you said he'll either be reported by other merit sources to be removed as a merit source or given suggestions by other reputed merit source on what quality post are.   Right now I'll say it could be, he's meriting post just because he agrees to it or maybe he wanted to finish his remaining merits before starting this topic to replicate The Pharmacist's success. I can't really tell though.

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January 16, 2019, 06:04:40 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #39

Its doesn't It isn't going to happen. As I mentioned on my first reply he is spending merit on shitpost then how you expect that he could find good post.

Don't forget that thread is like a court so when he report 2-3 posts and they're all shitpost as you said he'll either be reported by other merit sources to be removed as a merit source or given suggestions by other reputed merit source on what quality post are.   Right now I'll say it could be, he's meriting post just because he agrees to it or maybe he wanted to finish his remaining merits before starting this topic to replicate The Pharmacist's success. I can't really tell though.
We need to remember that QuestionAuthority was removed from merit source for giving merit to the shit post(s),so if this is the case OP also can get the same result.I hope OP's merit transaction will be watch out by Hawk eye (theymos) after reading this thread.

Just see what kind of posts QuestionAuthority was merited
1.30 merits for this
could really handle some merit!
2.30 for this
I'm here! Cheesy
3.30 for this awesome post
nice
and lot more if you see the next replies on that thread itself.I thought these merit transaction will be reversed by theymos but not yet happened.

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January 16, 2019, 06:17:04 AM
 #40

Its doesn't It isn't going to happen. As I mentioned on my first reply he is spending merit on shitpost then how you expect that he could find good post.

Don't forget that thread is like a court so when he report 2-3 posts and they're all shitpost as you said he'll either be reported by other merit sources to be removed as a merit source or given suggestions by other reputed merit source on what quality post are.   Right now I'll say it could be, he's meriting post just because he agrees to it or maybe he wanted to finish his remaining merits before starting this topic to replicate The Pharmacist's success. I can't really tell though.
We need to remember that QuestionAuthority was removed from merit source for giving merit to the shit post(s),so if this is the case OP also can get the same result.I hope OP's merit transaction will be watch out by Hawk eye (theymos) after reading this thread.

Well, the QA case was a little different. QA basically solicited the giveaway of merits and gave each participant in the WO thread 50 merits each. In this current case, only 2 merits were given for each post and the people made posts to participate in the contest, not to get merits.  We will see.

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