Bitcoin can replace the credit card today

[Come-from-Beyond]

Seems ppl don't undestand blockchain size issue. The problem is bandwidth, not storage space. VISA processing volume (10'000 tps) requires 10'000 transaction/s * 200 bytes/transaction * 8 bit/byte = 15 Mbps connection, assuming 200 bytes per transaction, average transaction requires more bytes.

[S4VV4S]

I think the BTC card is what Neo-Bee are trying to do.

If you deposit BTC in your wallet and it is available then when you swipe your card it only takes seconds (I am guessing).

[tkbx]

The blockchain is already 15 GiB. Bitcoin can't replace credit cards if we don't solve this problem.

What are you, living in 1995?

15 GB is not large. Any one of my 60 games on Steam are that size or bigger.

But it was about 2GB a year ago. At this rate, it will require a NAS with several dozen 4TB hard drives in RAID by the end of 2016.

[EvilPanda]

I think you all might be forgetting a key word here??? CREDIT!!!!!!!


spend BTC now pay later? I dont think so.

This!
Maybe you should change the title to debit cards

[CoinMode]

Ripple.  Solved.

Have fun living with Google as your ultimate overlords. Surely, a company that admitted they spy on you daily...

[IrishFutbol]

Points you left out:

1. Credit card companies make money on interest, and can provide rewards programs to customers.  Bitcoins can't.  Advantage - Credit Cards.

2. Credit cards allow someone to know how much money they can spend.  Bitcoin prices are volatile, and need to be converted back to USD to determine their value.  Advantage - credit cards.

3. Theft and fraud - Someone steals my credit card, and the bank is SOL as long as I report it when I notice it.  Someone steals BitCoins, the owner is SOL.  Advantage - credit cards.

Points you're taking an awfully biased approach on.

1. Your chargebacks point is horribly limited in scope.  As a consumer, I prefer the charge back over the non-charge back option.  Consumer Advantage - credit cards.  Business advantage - depends on whether or not the business is large enough to operate their own credit card and earn the interest/fees associated with this.

2. Time of transaction - A pending transaction with a bank is slightly more reliable than a pending transaction with a random person.  For online purchases (excluding instantaneous downloads), it may not be an issue, but this would never work in retail stores, or for online products that people would instantly receive.

[Automatic]

The blockchain is already 15 GiB. Bitcoin can't replace credit cards if we don't solve this problem.

Pretty sure it can, can't it? All you need is current location of all the coins, you don't need the history of it, you just need the history to calculate the current location.

[amspir]

The blockchain is already 15 GiB. Bitcoin can't replace credit cards if we don't solve this problem.

Why is this a problem?   Consumer flash memory devices that can hold 16G can be found for less than $10.  This eventually gets cheaper.   Mass produced devices can hold a ROM of the current history of the blockchain for even cheaper.

[Joshuar]

Points you left out:

1. Credit card companies make money on interest, and can provide rewards programs to customers.  Bitcoins can't.  Advantage - Credit Cards.

2. Credit cards allow someone to know how much money they can spend.  Bitcoin prices are volatile, and need to be converted back to USD to determine their value.  Advantage - credit cards.

3. Theft and fraud - Someone steals my credit card, and the bank is SOL as long as I report it when I notice it.  Someone steals BitCoins, the owner is SOL.  Advantage - credit cards.

Points you're taking an awfully biased approach on.

1. Your chargebacks point is horribly limited in scope.  As a consumer, I prefer the charge back over the non-charge back option.  Consumer Advantage - credit cards.  Business advantage - depends on whether or not the business is large enough to operate their own credit card and earn the interest/fees associated with this.

2. Time of transaction - A pending transaction with a bank is slightly more reliable than a pending transaction with a random person.  For online purchases (excluding instantaneous downloads), it may not be an issue, but this would never work in retail stores, or for online products that people would instantly receive.

That's why we need a Coin with 3 seconds transaction times...

[zureman90]

The blockchain is already 15 GiB. Bitcoin can't replace credit cards if we don't solve this problem.

Read Satoshi's original paper, chapter 7:

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Explains how to prune the blockchain, to about 5MB/year. (removing transaction hashes, only keeping the merkle root hash in the end)
Now we just have to wait for devs to implement it!

Bandwidth is another thing.. Come-from-beyond has a good point, but if internet speeds keep rising, I personally think by the time BTC gets to 10000transactions/s this will be high enough.
A lot of home connections are already able to easily keep up with that speed.

[runam0k]

Points you left out:

1. Credit card companies make money on interest, and can provide rewards programs to customers.  Bitcoins can't.  Advantage - Credit Cards.
You are paying for those rewards (and more!) indirectly i.e. the payment processing costs charged to the merchant and reflected in prices.  CC companies make money on interest but they also spend an enormous amount on infrastructure, staff, etc.  I think you're overestimating the value of the "rewards".

2. Credit cards allow someone to know how much money they can spend.  Bitcoin prices are volatile, and need to be converted back to USD to determine their value.  Advantage - credit cards.
True, but Bitcoin is still in its infancy.  The price will stabilise over time.  Agree that it's a chicken and egg scenario though.

3. Theft and fraud - Someone steals my credit card, and the bank is SOL as long as I report it when I notice it.  Someone steals BitCoins, the owner is SOL.  Advantage - credit cards.
There is a justice system, you know?  Go get your coins back.  Don't want to risk it, then only trade with reputable merchants or merchants that use escrow or indeed arrange your own escrow or insurance.  Your costs don't need to be added to my bill.

Points you're taking an awfully biased approach on.

...

2. Time of transaction - A pending transaction with a bank is slightly more reliable than a pending transaction with a random person.  For online purchases (excluding instantaneous downloads), it may not be an issue, but this would never work in retail stores, or for online products that people would instantly receive.
Double-spending is very difficult. I suspect most merchants will happily proceed with zero confirms for all but high value transactions if they can be certain an appropriate tx fee was paid).

My thoughts.

I'd add one very simple point: the CC companies make billions of dollars every year.  Think about how they do that.  They are ruthless.  Clue: it's by tricking you into thinking you get a good deal.

I remember in the UK a year or two ago we had CC companies intentionally changing the monthly due date for repayments to catch people out that had set up standing orders to pay their bills on time!

[~Coinseeker~]

Ripple.  Solved.

Have fun living with Google as your ultimate overlords. Surely, a company that admitted they spy on you daily...

Where can I donate more tin foil to your cause?   

[runam0k]

Ripple.  Solved.

Have fun living with Google as your ultimate overlords. Surely, a company that admitted they spy on you daily...

Where can I donate more tin foil to your cause?   

Is Ripple still going?  I thought it was exposed as an exploitable mess of IOUs?

[hypostatization]

Confirmation speed, transactions per second, volatility, non-reversible payments, and absence of credit... not there yet.

I love the idea of non-reversible payments, but it represents a major transition for consumers. Consider the most successful Bitcoin markets, black market sites, and their reliance on escrow. Although reversible payments can be a source of fraud, they are also used for consumer protection. I see the fraud limiting aspect of non-reversible payments benefiting sellers more than buyers. Mass scamming is incredibly easy for merchants, in absence of consumer protection. FE (finalizing early: releasing funds from escrow before the exchange of goods or services has been completed) has been a cornerstone of fraud in many marketplaces.

Credit is also valued by many people. It is out of philosophical alignment with the Bitcoin community, but not the majority of consumers.

Affecting cultural change is just as vital as making technical improvements. Bitcoin also does not have a stellar reputation, yet, and that is part of the change that needs to occur.

Beyond just 'can Bitcoin replace X?', clearly explaining why Bitcoin is better than X is necessary. Libertarian platitudes do not hold widespread traction.

Does Bitcoin offer a better end-user experience than a Starbucks mobile payment app? Mass adoption includes those users.

I think Bitcoin has potential to be enormously successful---without immediate need to overthrow and replace alternate payment systems.

[Predatorian]

Bitcoin cannot replace the credit card today, simply because of it's 10 minute transaction time. Impractical in real world situations especially since it takes a few seconds(1-3) for you to be able to transfer money on a credit card, unlike Bitcoins 10-40minute wait...

This.

[AmDD]

Bitcoin cannot replace the credit card today, simply because of it's 10 minute transaction time. Impractical in real world situations especially since it takes a few seconds(1-3) for you to be able to transfer money on a credit card, unlike Bitcoins 10-40minute wait...

This.

Incorrect. The amount of money/time needed to fool the network with a 'fake' transaction is worth way more than the $5 coffee your trying to buy. Even if you are buying something like a massive house for a million dollars, if you cant wait 10-30min for the transactions to confirm then you have some serious priority issues.

Also a 'faster' network will need more confirmations to be as secure as a 'slower' network. Ex: a network with 1min block times vs bitcoin with 10min block times: The faster network would require 10 confirms to be as secure as 1 confirm on the bitcoin network.

EDIT: I also believe that the time to actually transfer funds with a credit card in in the area of weeks, not seconds. The merchant has to sit on the transaction for a pretty long time before they actually get money from the CC company.

[amspir]

EDIT: I also believe that the time to actually transfer funds with a credit card in in the area of weeks, not seconds. The merchant has to sit on the transaction for a pretty long time before they actually get money from the CC company.

A merchant is also hindered in that the CC is soft, a customer can dispute and possibly reverse the transaction in the future.  It requires that the merchant have a credit relationship with the payment processor.  The merchant also pays a significant fee not traditionally passed on to the CC customers, but to all customers.

Customers may prefer the CC, because it provides reversible transactions and hidden fees not directly paid by the CC user.  Using the collected fees, the CC company gets to play silly games with points and cash-back programs to attract customers that are paid by all customers of the merchants.

Merchants will be the one to drive adoption, due to the advantage of much lower fees and irreversible transactions, and a merchant can accept payments without establishing credit with a payment processor.

[HappyFunnyFoo]

Bitcoin wouldn't replace the credit card because no merchant in their right mind would forgo payments in USD for BTC with BITC's price volatility.  Are you guys serious?  BTC behaves more like a commodity or store of value than a currency.  Everyone hoards it.

[Swordsoffreedom]

The blockchain is already 15 GiB. Bitcoin can't replace credit cards if we don't solve this problem.

Forgot how did Maakus project go on ultimate blockchain compression

[igorr]

Bitcoin is not legally regulated and can not be used as a means of payment