Why always talk about coins going X% Up?

[Mr. Net]

Lets talk about coins who are going seriously down in value... like... Netcoins

https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/134

These kind of coins are often the best investments one can make... don't run after every train and try to catch it.

Netcoins have been going down for a month or two because of difficulty manipulation by coinswitching pools, this has been solved with KGW recently. Many don't know about this.

Coin is fully working and has an active community.

http://forum.netcoinfoundation.org/

This is what I call an undervalued coin!

[markm]

Well duh of course coins going down are the ones to buy, since if they don't go down they don't hit your buy offers, unless they stay exectly the same and your buy offers are on the top of the buy side of the orderbook.

But there isn't really even any need to look around for ones that are going down, since once you find any that are likely to go back up again if they go down you can just flood the buy side with a whole slew of lower and lower and lower buy offers and move on. You'll know they are going down when your buy offers get bought.

Similarly for going up: as your buy offers get bought, place the coins you bought on the sell side, making a similar huge scattering of offers higher and higher and higher. You'll know the coin going up when your sell offers get bought. If you don't already have sell offers then you don't need to know the coin is going up, except maybe so you can consider whether to scatter buy offers lower and lower and lower ready to ctch it when it goes back down.

Again assuming you think it will go back up again after it goes down.

This of course works best on reputable exchanges in which good long term coins are not few and far between among piles and piles of crap that will just go down and die.

-MarkM-

[Mr. Net]

Well duh of course coins going down are the ones to buy, since if they don't go down they don't hit your buy offers, unless they stay exectly the same and your buy offers are on the top of the buy side of the orderbook.

But there isn't really even any need to look around for ones that are going down, since once you find any that are likely to go back up ahain if they go down you can just flood the buy side with a whole slew of lower and lower and lower buy offers and move on. You'll know they are going down when your buy offers get bought.

-MarkM-

Well you would need a bit of spare BTC to have some buyorders all the way down... But I am talking about coins that have gone down like... almost 90% (Netcoins), you don't see that to often unless the coin has a serious flaw or some scam going on.
And that are the ones you need to pick, question is, where to buy... wait for it to go even further down?

Edit: Its interesting to see the buyorders stacking up here: http://bter.com/trade/net_cny

[markm]

The problem of where to buy is why to scatter the offers.

Best are reliable up and down coins like DeVCoin, it regularly goes down to somewhere in the 55 to 30 satoshis per coin range and up to over 175 or over 200 or even over 300 once upon a time. It went down to 27 once.

So I simply have a buy offer at each and every satoshi of price from 1 satoshi all the way up to the current spread, and sell offers from way up over 200 someplace all the way down to the last place my highest buy offer was sitting.

It makes a nice regular income, and jumps from 30 or less to 200 or more are quite enough profit considering I don't have to screw around with dubious crap coins that aren't even on reputable exchanges.

The problem of where to sell is solved the same way the problem of where to buy is: buy all over the buy side and sell all over the sell side. No matter how far it goes out of the boring mid-range you profit.

Also on Vircurex having bitcoins on the exchange earns you income from the fees the exchange charges, so the more bitcoins you have sitting there in offers the more you earn.

Thus hail-Mary lowball offers that are insanely lowball still earn something even if the price never does go down to 1 satoshi or 2 satoshis or 3 satoshis or whatever.

Since you can save on fees by signing up using a referral URL here is my referral URL:

https://vircurex.com/welcome/index?referral_id=597-1636

-MarkM-

[sosxc]

Sexcoin (SXC) has been going down (or sideways) for a long time and seems like a good buy.  It has an active community of developers, artists, merchants and enthusiasts building out software and infrastructure.  We've even got a sexcoin girl or two.

Most of the discussion is taking place over at sexcoinforum.org.  Check it out.

[markm]

How is Sexcoin blockchain secured though?

Its not scrypt is it? If so again its stupid to bother with crap that cannot be secured.

-MarkM-

[Mr. Net]

Sexcoin (SXC) has been going down (or sideways) for a long time and seems like a good buy.  It has an active community of developers, artists, merchants and enthusiasts building out software and infrastructure.  We've even got a sexcoin girl or two.

Most of the discussion is taking place over at sexcoinforum.org.  Check it out.

Yea, I have looked at SXC, don't see why they fell so much in value... kind of same with netcoin.

It seems like people get distracted by all these new coins with no real infrastructre, I think we will see a comback on these qualitycoins like Netcoins, Megacoins, Hobonickels, Sexcoins, devcoins...

[markm]

On Vircurex the API limits you to 100 or so offers.

I have thousands upon thousands of offers so yes I had to do it manually.

In the beginning it meant 16 hour days typing in offers.

But once they are in place it is only when they get accepted by a counterparty that I need to type stuff in, basically putting back on the other side of the orderbook whatever got sold or bought.

Even on Vircurex there are some total garbage coins, for example even when DOGE came along and showed how pathetically vulnerable scrypt is, so little hash power that almost overnight a stupid meme could conjure up enough hashing power to have trashed any of them, Vircurex for some reason did not throw out the crappy low hashing power scrypt coins to replace them all with DOGE (which would have left only Litecoin and DOGE), instead keeping all the crappy pathetic little low hashpower ones that maybe (presumably?) once upon a time had looked like they might actually have some chance of securing their blockchains.

So basically I focus on the merged mined ones with decent hashpower.

Even some of those though are kind of low hashpower, they need to be merged on more of the merged mining pools.

-MarkM-

[btc4ever]

RonPaulCoin is way off its initial highs.

This coin took off like a firecracker initially but has since been suffering from a lack of promotion and advancement by the dev.

However, it has potential with the libertarian community and I can very well imagine physical RPC being sold at liberty festivals all over the country for decades to come.  There is some (limited) activity over on the ronpaulcoin forums, and I did see someone there proposing to make some aluminum physical coins, which I would buy, and gives me some more hope for the coins future.

The total quantity 2.1 million is 10 times less than bitcoin.  So availability will always be limited compared to something like dogecoin or infinitecoin.  Also, there was no pre-mine and it had a very fair launch.

I do hope they put Ron Paul's face back on the logo though.  Taking it off was a mistake.

[markm]

How does RonPaulCoin secure its blockchain though?

So many coins are garbage scrypt coins that the default assumption tends to be that chances are any mentioned coin is just yet another garbage scrypt coin with trivial pathetic hashing power thus totally insecure...

-MarkM-

[sosxc]

Yes it is scrypt.  What do you have against scrypt?  Litecoin uses it, amongst many others.  To my mind, scrypt is presently the closest thing to Satoshi's original vision... lots of people are able to participate in mining scrypt coins and it has been relatively stable without having to buy new hardware every 2 months like in the sha256 world.

The SXC client did have some problems with sync'ing the blockchain for a while, and development slowed to a crawl, but there has been a shakeup and now there are new people working on both the development and promotion side, so things are happening again and I sense more excitement in the community.  That is also why I think it is a good buy and I am holding for at least the next year to see where it goes.

How is Sexcoin blockchain secured though?

Its not scrypt is it? If so again its stupid to bother with crap that cannot be secured.

-MarkM-

[btc4ever]

Hey, just wanted to say that I like this thread.  Good idea.

In the past I did pretty well by mining coins that had been "abandoned" or were not yet listed on any exchange and had a low difficulty.  Coins like infinitecoin, sexcoin, starcoin, quarkcoin.    IFC was really great because it had super low difficulty for a few months before it got rediscovered and went through the roof, and it has stayed relatively stable since that time.  SXC also went to the moon, but then it crashed back down to earth.

So anyway, yeah there is a lot to be said for buying (or mining) coins that seem abandoned, especially if you see any redeeming features or signs of hope for them, or are willing to put in the work to innovate and promote the coin yourself.

[roslinpl]

Lets talk about coins who are going seriously down in value... like... Netcoins

https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/134

These kind of coins are often the best investments one can make... don't run after every train and try to catch it.

Netcoins have been going down for a month or two because of difficulty manipulation by coinswitching pools, this has been solved with KGW recently. Many don't know about this.

Coin is fully working and has an active community.

http://forum.netcoinfoundation.org/

This is what I call an undervalued coin!

we are definietly talking about both. Ups and downs.

There are many coins that price go down and up as well.

And as you can see even when bitcoin price go down people talk really a lot

[markm]

What is wrong with scrypt is that is can be PWNed by a bunch of kids armed only with CPUs and/or GPUs. (Not so much CPUs anymore, but the argument applies to all coins that deliberately make themselves vulnerable to attack by refusing to use the most efficient technology available to secure them.)

DOGE proved that a stupid meme can conjure up enough hashing power almost overnight to overpower even Litecoin.

So basically any scrypt coin with hashrates as low as DOGE's or Litecoin's or lower is insecure. If both were merged mined together maybe that might be better but really even that doesn't really amount to much since the meme attack apparently works partly by attracting miners away. So even if both were merged together another stupid meme might well turn out to be able to conjure up enough hashing power almost overnight to PWN them both.

Other "CPU coins" and "GPU coins" are in even worse shape in a sense, but currently scrypt is the most fragmented hashing type, hundreds of coins all weakening them all by diverting hashing power instead of by merging it.

All the non merged mined SHA256 coins are just as pathetic, they are all attacks just waiting to happen.

Heck not even all the merged mined coins, even though they can be merged mined, have decent hash rates, because so many pools fail to merge all of them so some are hardly merged by any pools at all, or even not by any public pools at all.

-MarkM-

[btc4ever]

I agree that scrypt hashing power is highly fragmented.  That's simply because there are lots of scrypt coins out there, and that's because scrypt has proven to be popular with miners.

But it sounds to me like your argument is basically that scrypt is bad because none of the scrypt coins are as popular as bitcoin.

I understand you prefer merge mined coins, and that's fine.  It probably makes good investing sense to buy merge mined coins with lots of hashpower especially when they are available cheap.

For myself, I have pretty much mined everything rather than buying.  And the low hashrate of some of the altcoins have enabled me to get many coins cheaply that later rose in value and difficulty.  So it worked out well for me.

In the end, I think that any coins that hang around and develop a lasting following will develop enough hashpower to be resistant to 51% or they will move to a merge mine scenario or take other measures.   Things will balance out.  So I don't worry about that aspect much, and I don't see being script based as a liability for a coin, other factors being equal.

Another point is that the popularity of scrypt amongst miners probably helps in wider initial adoption and distribution of the coin, which is critical for network effects.

[markm]

Mostly it gets on board a whole population of scammers who don't give a shit that the thing is insecure they just want to dump it.

For a currency that is not good at all.

-MarkM-

[RobFordWotWot]

Nearly every coin is going down lately.

Percentage gains are percentage gains are percentage gains.

With different block rewards, radical price differences, and numerous other things percentages are the only way to discuss market movement that makes any bit of sense.

As above so below.

[Mr. Net]

Nearly every coin is going down lately.

Percentage gains are percentage gains are percentage gains.

With different block rewards, radical price differences, and numerous other things percentages are the only way to discuss market movement that makes any bit of sense.

As above so below.

Yea, I meant that no one seems to talks about coins who are going down, like if they hope people wouldn't notice...
Kind of funny if you think about it.

[bratan2]

I put the note about Worldcoin
This coin is very low at now.

[BrewCrewFan]

Nearly every coin is going down lately.

Percentage gains are percentage gains are percentage gains.

With different block rewards, radical price differences, and numerous other things percentages are the only way to discuss market movement that makes any bit of sense.

As above so below.

Yea, I meant that no one seems to talks about coins who are going down, like if they hope people wouldn't notice...
Kind of funny if you think about it.

People talk about  whatever coin going up because they just bought into it while it started climbing, they already have the sell order set and hope enough people buy high and hit the sell order they just set.

Usually when you see someone posting about a coin going up, you way to late.