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Author Topic: [Infographic]: Guide on possible reasons to leave a -ve/+ve trust feedbacks.  (Read 925 times)
CryptopreneurBrainboss
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January 22, 2019, 10:38:33 AM
Last edit: February 26, 2019, 01:20:10 PM by CryptopreneurBrainboss
Merited by dbshck (8), Welsh (5), DdmrDdmr (2), OgNasty (1), tyz (1), bill gator (1), xtraelv (1)
 #1

PS: Topic is opened for accessment and corrections. Infograph will be updated constantly as new reasons for leaving or not leaving feedbacks surfaces

What are Trust Feedbacks:
These are feedbacks users leave on other users account to serve as a warning or save sign to trade with that user.

Bitcointalk doesn't have an official rule guiding the leaving of feedbacks but we have numerous guidelines by experience users. If you aren't familiar with the trust system, the below thread will be a great place to start.

[Explained] How DT system works
[Explained] How Trust Score is calculated
[Explained] Importance of Custom Trust List
[Updated]--[Infographic] Leaving Feedback vs Custom Trust List
★Keep your role on Default Trust(DT) selection★

More threads will be uploaded...

Reason for this thread
Additionally, it may be interesting to see all four combinations for trust feedback:
-   Use positive feed back for.
-   Don’t use positive feed back for.
-   Use negative feed back for.
-   Don’t use negative feed back for (OP).

Note: If you can't see the image clearly, CLICK HERE to read the contents in formal text.


Image link: http://i.imgur.com/tQVi7tz.jpg

Terms used explained:
Farming means buying and selling
Swapping means exchanging e.g exchanging of +ve. trusts
[Optional] means debatable reasons

In addition
I'd like to add to this topic: before leaving feedback, ask yourself if your feedback makes the forum better, and (if applicable) is it worth destroying someone's reputation?

Before you leave a negative feedback,
You should be able to explain why this is true:
Quote from: theymos
Negative - You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer.

Mdayonliner also has a good discussion thread about this.

If it is your intention to enlighten others on the use of the system, perhaps promote the 3rd option. I personally see Neutral as a tool for notes on the account/users behavior whether positive or negative, but not a scam/trade dispute.

Note: The moment you start leaving negative feedbacks on other users accounts, you'll make enemies and probably get false red tags so you have to read these quotes on how false negative feedback (red tags) can be handled

The best way to handle it is to appeal the red trust with the person who wrote it. However, the only way the person's red tag shows up on the trust numbers for an individual depends on their trust settings. Otherwise, it just shows up under the section "untrusted feedback." Most people have not fiddled with their trust settings, so it is set on default trust with a depth of 2. If you have customized your trust setting and want to see what your score looks like under the default settings, just go to a page with a post of yours in a section that displays the trust scores. Then after the url just add ;dt. If the tag doesn't show up on default trust, I wouldn't be too concerned about it, although these false tags may be more of a concern if there is a big move for people to start to customize their trust lists. For example, on my untrusted feedback I have someone accusing me of spreading a fictitious disease to newbies.  Cheesy

First thing you need to do - stop worrying about ludicrous retaliatory feedback. It's unavoidable but it has no effect on you and you shouldn't waste time appealing it. Trust is not moderated. You will not get it removed unless the sender agrees to do that (in rare cases extreme trust spam may be removed but don't count on that).


Credits:
OP's of quotes above
xtraelv: Discussion about acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Community values. DT

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January 22, 2019, 02:23:28 PM
 #2

There have been so much attention on trust system and feed back lately.
The trust system has specified members that are meant to handle it.
Let me guess we have left the merit discussion era now we now have to deal with constant trust system discussion

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January 22, 2019, 02:34:47 PM
Merited by dbshck (4), Steamtyme (1)
 #3

Making an infographic like this makes it look official, which it's not.  If I'm not mistaken, we're still having a discussion about what's acceptable and what's not as far as leaving trust, and I disagree with a couple of the ones on this, like not giving negs for certain rule violations like harassment.  Plus the "unless on rare occasions" qualifier sort of makes that suggestion near meaningless.  I also don't agree that negs should be left for merit issues unless it's particularly egregious and even then it's a judgement call I don't think Theymos approves of.

All in all, this is premature.  You probably want to help and likely are looking for merits, but an infographic of this stuff isn't needed right now.  Just my opinion.


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January 22, 2019, 05:52:46 PM
 #4

Hello @The Pharmacist this thread was a respond to DdmrDdmr reply on my previous thread.  He asked for a thread that combines all aspect of leaving trust feedbacks. The intention was not to make it sound official but as a guideline. If you check my post history I have been gaining interest in the trust system and asking questions up and down. I thought it'll be nice to produce solutions to the questions I asked so others won't have to ask the same questions. I'm keeping a close eye on the DT discussion and will be updating the infograph as new reasons for leaving negative,positive or not leaving any trust feedbacks are suggested by the experience members like yourself.

I just made it easier through a infograph so other can understand and stop asking the same questions I did when I picked interested in the trust system.

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January 22, 2019, 06:00:18 PM
 #5

Conceptually it is more complete now, and in line with what could eventually be a good idea to have around. The thing is, DT guidelines are difficult to establish right now: There are different currents of thinking (and acting), and that leads to it being premature for them to be written as holy sacred tablets yet.

I suggested adding the four depicted concepts on your original post (see [Guide]: How not to use the negative feedback aka red tag), since it was only showing one leg of the table (“How not to use the negative feedback”), not four.

I did state that:
“The way I see it now, there is no clear official guidelines for leaving feedback (which I think there sort of should), and there are multiple discussion threads trying to determine or establish them. I guess @theymos wants it to be rather community led, but I see quite a lot of confusion still around it all.”

Meta is where all the DT stuff is being cooked, and therefore we need to wait for the chefs to finish the dish for a better grasp of the outcome …

I would rather that the forum itself either created an official set of guidelines, or that it’s members clearly establish a consensus (and not simply by 51%) on them. The former is more appealing to me, as it would be above individual interests and criteria. Since it is all a bit tits-up right now, I would wait until there is some clear consensus; otherwise what you’ve written seems more “official” than a post with an opinion, and is bound to get too bold at this stage.

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January 22, 2019, 06:42:56 PM
 #6

@OP,
I've read the whole infographic, but what I didn't get here is: why should someone get a negative feedback if they take an account as a collateral? It's their choice to lend someone after taking one's account as a collateral (I'm talking about bitcointalk forum account as it does have a value which lender decides at the time of lending) so how can it be considered a practice of account-farming?

Sorry if there's something already decided in Meta and I'm unaware, please draw me towards the fact based on which you've added the said thing in your infographic. I know it's not official, but still I'm curious.  Smiley

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January 22, 2019, 07:10:00 PM
 #7

@OP,
I've read the whole infographic, but what I didn't get here is: why should someone get a negative feedback if they take an account as a collateral?

Before I go on to answer your question, first let me make you understand what the forum consider aa a collateral
What is considered collateral?

Collateral is something that can easily be resold to cover the loan value plus interest should the loaner default on the loan.

Therefore if you accept accounts as collateral you're encouraging account farming which the DT members frown at.  Accepting an account as collateral means you're attaching a price to that account which can be sold to cover up your loan value which is considered as account farming and all accounts involved will be red tag.

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January 23, 2019, 01:46:46 PM
 #8

@OP,
I've read the whole infographic, but what I didn't get here is: why should someone get a negative feedback if they take an account as a collateral?

Before I go on to answer your question, first let me make you understand what the forum consider aa a collateral
What is considered collateral?

Collateral is something that can easily be resold to cover the loan value plus interest should the loaner default on the loan.

Therefore if you accept accounts as collateral you're encouraging account farming which the DT members frown at.  Accepting an account as collateral means you're attaching a price to that account which can be sold to cover up your loan value which is considered as account farming and all accounts involved will be red tag.

So? Who says that our accounts are not worth anything? What's wrong if an account (that is long used and not that alt-type account) is given as a collateral not to cover up the loan value but to justify that the person who is giving their all-time dedication and work to that account believes he/she can put his/her account on stake and get a loan for some time? Sorry, I'm literally not supporting account farming, but giving value to anything (be it even BTC that is evaluated based on people's sentiments, or our accounts here) and deciding what to lend and risk with the borrower totally depends on lender's thinking as well as collateral-acceptance standards.

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January 23, 2019, 07:39:34 PM
 #9

@OP,
I've read the whole infographic, but what I didn't get here is: why should someone get a negative feedback if they take an account as a collateral?

Before I go on to answer your question, first let me make you understand what the forum consider aa a collateral
What is considered collateral?

Collateral is something that can easily be resold to cover the loan value plus interest should the loaner default on the loan.

Therefore if you accept accounts as collateral you're encouraging account farming which the DT members frown at.  Accepting an account as collateral means you're attaching a price to that account which can be sold to cover up your loan value which is considered as account farming and all accounts involved will be red tag.

You're making it sound like taking a BTT as collateral will cause you to instantly get red trusted. - Unless you have examples of this - i wouldn't say that this is the case.

Rather if you take an account as collateral, and the user does not pay back, and you then proceed to sell it, that's kind of flawed upon.

I'd say that, especially with high tier accounts, offering account (rather the reputation behind the account) does not instantly =/= Selling the account in the case of them not paying back their loan.


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January 24, 2019, 03:28:29 AM
 #10


You're making it sound like taking a BTT as collateral will cause you to instantly get red trusted. - Unless you have examples of this - i wouldn't say that this is the case.

Correct me with a recent example of BTT account used as a collateral and it wasn't red tagged.  I believe just  accepting or giving a BTT account as a collateral can be consider as account farming as the main intention of a collateral is base on the fact of loaner default so you have something to turn to.

Let me explain myself, if a user accepts or give a BTT account as collateral what he's saying is that I'm adding price value to that account and you should sell it if I can't pay back the loan to cover up. Correct me if I'm wrong.

DT members frown at any issues relating to account farming. Although this issues are still been discussed and if adjustment are made I'll update this infograhic. This is just a temporary guide based on current reasons users are leaving trust feedbacks

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January 24, 2019, 04:15:15 AM
 #11

Going through this infographic,i came across your statement which says a user can get a red trust for being an escrow without a track record
Is that correct and should that be so,i know it's safer,and we're encourage to use the forum's official escrow service and also reputable members but is it not the decision of those engaged in the transaction to decide who acts as escrow in their transaction whether or not that person has a track record,but is trusted by both of them,and such person should not get red tagged,I think this makes sense, but I stand to be corrected
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January 24, 2019, 04:19:10 AM
 #12

Correct me with a recent example of BTT account used as a collateral and it wasn't red tagged.  I believe just  accepting or giving a BTT account as a collateral can be consider as account farming as the main intention of a collateral is base on the fact of loaner default so you have something to turn to.

Here is the example for you.

Terms:
1. You must have valid collateral. Altcoin and reputed bitcointalk profiles are only valid collateral to me.

User is Green trusted.
 
It will be zero value collateral for lender but it still it has much value for account owner. Any reputable person will not like to part the account for few dollars.

This should be debatable for which amount of loan and a positive trust should be given. Users are giving/receiving +ve trust for paying petty loan amount ,look like more of trust farming.


Going through this infographic,i came across your statement which says a user can get a red trust for being an escrow without a track record
Is that correct and should that be so,i know it's safer,and we're encourage to use the forum's official escrow service and also reputable members but is it not the decision of those engaged in the transaction to decide who acts as escrow in their transaction whether or not that person has a track record,but is trusted by both of them,and such person should not get red tagged,I think this makes sense, but I stand to be corrected

Then do the private deal (escrow), no need to start your escrow service thread.
You can check the trust of  [ur=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1432468l]mdayonliner[/url] who got -ve trust for jumping in escrow deal of $100K without any experience.

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CryptopreneurBrainboss
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January 24, 2019, 06:36:59 AM
 #13

I know it's safer,and we're encourage to use the forum's official escrow service

No this statement is wrong. The forum doesn't have an official escrow. And the reason most account are tagged for offering a escrow without track record is to prevent  scam. You have to prove you can be trusted before applying to be an escrow.

Possible Solution:
OP you mentioned Offering escrow without a track record.
Do you mean no previous escrow track record or no previous deals/trades at all on Bitcointalk?
Theoretically, if a user wanted to become an escrow here, what would he need to do if he doesn't have a track record?

You'd have to do other activities that would make you deemed trustworthy by someone. Then that person would approach you to act as an escrow for them. Then if you did a good job for them, they would recommend you to other people. After a while, you would have a good track record and have many to vouch for you. At that point, you can offer it yourself. That's my guess, at least. It kinda has to drop in your lap, at first.


Example of situation users was tagged for trying to sell btt account collected as collateral. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5037540.0

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January 24, 2019, 06:55:51 PM
 #14

Example of situation users was tagged for trying to sell btt account collected as collateral. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5037540.0

You still missed the point, User is tagged for trying to sell  the account  that is collected as collateral. User was not tagged for accepting the account as collateral. Only disadvantage is that you can still accept account as collateral but you cannot liquidate it. If borrower is valuing it's own account then definitely borrower will pay the loan.

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January 24, 2019, 07:06:07 PM
 #15

Here is a reply from someone who has been in the trust system for a very long time and currently a DT member. You can visit my thread on the reputation board for more clarification

No offends guys but I haven't be clarified my questions haven't been answered. If you say an account used for collateral should be tagged for account farming when should the red tag be given? After lone default (to prevent account selling) or immediately it's offered as collateral   and should all accounts involved be tagged for account farming?
Both the lender and the user should be immediately tagged.

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January 30, 2019, 12:23:34 PM
 #16

Honestly, I think it will be better if you present your contents in formal text, rather than infographics.
The infographics is hard to see, and space-consumed.

CryptopreneurBrainboss
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January 30, 2019, 03:15:07 PM
 #17

Honestly, I think it will be better if you present your contents in formal text, rather than infographics.
The infographics is hard to see, and space-consumed.

It could be because of your mobile phone screen, have you tried zooming the image?  Also you can view image from the direct link or use this code to make image bigger
Code:
[IMG width=200]http://i.imgur.com/tQVi7tz.jpg[/img]
Change 200 to a bigger number when writing a reply and preview then you'll get a bigger image

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January 31, 2019, 02:31:29 AM
Merited by dbshck (6), tyz (1), CryptopreneurBrainboss (1), Coolcryptovator (1)
 #18

Honestly, I think it will be better if you present your contents in formal text, rather than infographics.
The infographics is hard to see, and space-consumed.

This is simple enough that it could be made with BBcode:

GUIDE ON LEAVING POSITIVE/NEGATIVE FEEDBACKS

   
    LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK
       
    • 1. For Successful receiver of paid signature allocations.
    • 2. For Successful trade such as escrow, loan, buying/selling of goods & services.
    • 3. To users dedicating their time to fight scam project and fake icos.
    • 4. To users dedicating their time/skills to improve forum. [optional]
    • 5. If you trust users.
     
       
      DON'T LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK
         
      • 1. For successful account farming.
      • 2. For successful merit farming/swapping.
      • 3. For successful trust farming/swapping.
      • 4. Based on other users feedbacks, they could be wrong.
      • 5. Without valid evidence. [optional]
       
         
        LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACKS
           
        • 1. For attempted or succesful fraud or theft.
        • 2. For account farming & taking.
        • 3. For merit farming/swapping.
        • 4. For trust farming/swapping.
        • 5. For abuse of bounty/airdrop/giveaways/merit/trust/escrow.
        • 6. For offering escrow without a track record.
        • 7. For providing fake or insufficient collateral & late loan repayments or loan defaults.
        • 8. For trades (Lending or borrowing) to gain "reputation".
        • 10. For shilling/advertising MLM or ponzi.
        • 11. For scam, fake ICOs & other projects.
        • 12. For selling gambling scripts/Spreading malware.
        • 13. For constant fund or merit begging.
        • 14. For leaving fake negative feedbacks.
        • 15. For fake translations and hacked account.
         
           
          DON'T LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACKS
             
          • 1. Based on other users feedbacks, they could be wrong.
          • 2. For posting an unpopular opinion.
          • 3. For owning an alt account.
          • 4. For promoting altcoins or other projects.
          • 5. For criticizing others and religious statements.
          • 6. Without reference or it'll be considered fake or an accusation.
          • 7. For disliking or disagree with user statements.
          • 8. For violation of common forum rules such as Ban evasion, plagiarism, copy and paste, excessive thread bumping, harassment, trolling etc unless on rare occasions.
          • 9. For anything without solid evidence or very strong circumstantial evidence.
          • Note: Don't turn leaving of negative feedbacks into a job or hobby, only leave one when necessary.
           

          Code:
          [center][color=green][size=18pt][b]GUIDE ON LEAVING POSITIVE/NEGATIVE FEEDBACKS[/b][/size][/color][/center]

          [table]
           [tr]
            [td]
             [list]
              [center][color=limegreen][b]LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK[/b][/color][/center]
              [li][color=limegreen]1. For Successful receiver of paid signature allocations.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=limegreen]2. For Successful trade such as escrow, loan, buying/selling of goods & services.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=limegreen]3. To users dedicating their time to fight scam project and fake icos.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=limegreen]4. To users dedicating their time/skills to improve forum. [optional][/color][/li]
              [li][color=limegreen]5. If you trust users.[/color][/li]
             [/list]
            [/td]
            [td]
             [list]
              [center][color=blue][b]DON'T LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK[/b][/color][/center]
              [li][color=blue]1. For successful account farming.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=blue]2. For successful merit farming/swapping.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=blue]3. For successful trust farming/swapping.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=blue]4. Based on other users feedbacks, they could be wrong.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=blue]5. Without valid evidence. [optional][/color][/li]
             [/list]
            [/td]
            [td]
             [list]
              [center][color=red][b]LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACKS[/b][/color][/center]
              [li][color=red]1. For attempted or succesful fraud or theft.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]2. For account farming & taking.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]3. For merit farming/swapping.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]4. For trust farming/swapping.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]5. For abuse of bounty/airdrop/giveaways/merit/trust/escrow.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]6. For offering escrow without a track record.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]7. For providing fake or insufficient collateral & late loan repayments or loan defaults.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]8. For trades (Lending or borrowing) to gain "reputation".[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]10. For shilling/advertising MLM or ponzi.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]11. For scam, fake ICOs & other projects.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]12. For selling gambling scripts/Spreading malware.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]13. For constant fund or merit begging.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]14. For leaving fake negative feedbacks.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=red]15. For fake translations and hacked account.[/color][/li]
             [/list]
            [/td]
            [td]
             [list]
              [center][color=orange][b]DON'T LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACKS[/b][/color][/center]
              [li][color=orange]1. Based on other users feedbacks, they could be wrong.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=orange]2. For posting an unpopular opinion.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=orange]3. For owning an alt account.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=orange]4. For promoting altcoins or other projects.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=orange]5. For criticizing others and religious statements.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=orange]6. Without reference or it'll be considered fake or an accusation.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=orange]7. For disliking or disagree with user statements.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=orange]8. For violation of common forum rules such as Ban evasion, plagiarism, copy and paste, excessive thread bumping, harassment, trolling etc unless on rare occasions.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=orange]9. For anything without solid evidence or very strong circumstantial evidence.[/color][/li]
              [li][color=orange]Note: Don't turn leaving of negative feedbacks into a job or hobby, only leave one when necessary.[/color][/li]
             [/list]
            [/td]
           [/tr]
          [/table]

          lobcmt2
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          January 31, 2019, 02:36:21 AM
           #19

          Nope. It is not what I meant!
          I known the width option,  but it does not helpful in the case.
          You can see that Artermis3 made it clearer with BBcode. I think you should use this one rather than your infographics.
          It could be because of your mobile phone screen, have you tried zooming the image?  Also you can view image from the direct link or use this code to make image bigger
          Code:
          [IMG width=200]http://i.imgur.com/tQVi7tz.jpg[/img]
          Change 200 to a bigger number when writing a reply and preview then you'll get a bigger image

          Only one word, perfect!
          You made a good work, Artemis3.
          Unfortunately, I have only 0.5 sMerits, and can not send it to you, but I will do it later.
          snip

          CryptopreneurBrainboss
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          January 31, 2019, 04:25:07 AM
           #20

          You can see that Artermis3 made it clearer with BBcode. I think you should use this one rather than your infographics.

          Thanks for your suggestion but as you can see before you,  no one have complained of not seeing the infograph instead they all have been admitting of reading it clearly and airing their views on some reason they disagree with.  I just updated the infograph with this
          Note: If you can't see the image clearly, CLICK HERE to read the contents in formal text.
          so I believe that possible problem of other users not been able to read the infograph have been solved.

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