Newbie 2tf Begging for Merit Via PM

[bill gator]

Yesterday I received the following PM:

Hello there,


It is possible that you can transfer me something of Merit points to be able to do post with images. Thank you

User Profile: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2142712

Their post history is one-liners in megathreads and generic drivel.

Interesting project maybe I am interested.

Interested in your project. With some skills in advisory.

Alternative coin other than BTC so tokens are also a kind of alts that is my personal opinion.

Investing and airdrops for sure.

I would buy a cheap car and travel across the country.

I left the user negative feedback myself, but I am wondering if some DT member is willing to tag this user. I've just now reported the PM, as well.

[asche]

This isn't reason enough for Red Tag IMHO.

Theymos himself doesn't like people getting tagged over merit stuff.

[bill gator]

Do you think that a neutral tag would be more appropriate for this kind of Merit-abuse? You may be right, but certainly there should be some consequence to abusing the merit system.

[The Cryptovator]

Do you think that a neutral tag would be more appropriate for this kind of Merit-abuse? You may be right, but certainly there should be some consequence to abusing the merit system.

Just left him neutral feedback. Seems somehow he got 1 merit last day. By considering his first mistake and user never joined any signature I feel neutral tag is appropriate for him. But if he annoy again for merit then reply on this thread and PM me, I will turn it on negative. Theymos is not much encourage to tag regarding merit issue if there is no clear evidence for trade or buy sell.

[asche]

Do you think that a neutral tag would be more appropriate for this kind of Merit-abuse? You may be right, but certainly there should be some consequence to abusing the merit system.

I'd say it would.

But if he hasn't understood the  system and is begging for merit because he doesn't know better, or even if he DOES know and still begs, that still doesn't make him untrustworthy.

That just makes him a shitposter trying to get merit the easy way.

I won't put him in the same bag as a scammer/thief/extortionist/etc.

[suchmoon]

Neutral is enough IMO. I typically tag them neutral when I get a PM like that or encounter some other form of merit begging.

You can also report the PM as begging/spam.

[TheUltraElite]

Bill,
You could tell 2tf about the Copper Membership and then point a link to that thread and tell him that buying it will allow him to post images without restrictions like a normal member. That how you could manage this newbie from PM spam and also solve their problem at the same time. If they are presistent then you can add them to ignore list and delete all PMs without any further response.

Giving a tag here whether neutral or negative in my opinion is less important than the decisive solution which I speak of. A tag is an overkill in this case because a generic shitposter is also not a valid warrant for the same.

I dont understand why you all are getting so trigger happy with tagging people for every case. Sometimes the logical method also works. Obviously if the person repeats offenses then a neutral tag would be appropriate.

[bill gator]

That how you could manage this newbie from PM spam and also solve their problem at the same time.

I could have done a lot of things, I suppose, but normally when somebody is genuinely seeking help they'll post a thread in the beginner's and help section or send a genuine PM. If that's what this user was seeking, then I would happily oblige and regularly do. I have exchanges with newbies regularly through PM, explaining guidelines, rules, expectations and processes.

Giving a tag here whether neutral or negative in my opinion is less important than the decisive solution which I speak of. A tag is an overkill in this case because a generic shitposter is also not a valid warrant for the same.

Rehabilitation is more important than punishment, is that a good summation of the point here? Even a neutral tag would be overkill in your opinion? I make a distinction between shitposter and merit-abuser, but maybe you don't see that as being the case here.

I dont understand why you all are getting so trigger happy with tagging people for every case. Sometimes the logical method also works.

Who is(are?) "you all"? I don't even leave feedback often.

Many respected DT members (Vod, The Pharmacist, Lauda, Etc.) have tagged for very similar cases, because if you are cheating and abusing a system then you are untrustworthy in the eyes of many people playing by the proper rules.

See here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3256586
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1688750


Also here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5031158
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1339290

Sometimes what you think is "logical" isn't universally agreed upon and that's okay.

Neutral is enough IMO.

Am considering changing my Merit-Begging tags to neutral at this point, it seems to be the right decision aside from cases of blatant or repetitive abuse. Appreciate the input from someone else that has received these PMs.

You can also report the PM as begging/spam.

Did that!

even if he DOES know and still begs, that still doesn't make him untrustworthy.

I disagree with that, because if he is knowingly cheating a system for personal gain at the expense of others and the integrity of the merit system then those actions are an iconic staple for being untrustworthy.

[LoyceV]

Rehabilitation is more important than punishment, is that a good summation of the point here? Even a neutral tag would be overkill in your opinion?

I usually don't tag accounts for PM begging, but I do report them. That sometimes leads to a temporary ban.

My 2 Satoshis: I've tagged 2 Merit beggers:

Unsollicited PM asking to buy my account or 800 Merit.
Trying to buy (and resell) Merit.

PM merit begging.
I am willing to remove this once you have earned 12 Merit. Note that I don't mean just mean receiving 12 Merit, the merited posts have to deserve the Merit too (and I'll be the judge of that). Once you qualify, PM me and refer to this trust rating.

Both have more tags by now.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

2tf did get a single merit for this post, which is on a local board.  Can anyone translate it and perhaps check to see if it's plagiarized?

I do find it very suspicious that one minute he's PMing people begging for merits and the next minute he actually gets one.  And yes, I do think begging for merits via PMs is neg-worthy.  That's been the standard for some time now.

[bill gator]

I thought it was suspicious as well, but the OP of that thread seemed to just be dishing out merit to everyone that posted within it. It's possible that 2tf saw this and posted something generic just to squeeze out a single merit. Using a generic translator, that seems to be the case, but as far as plagiarism I am unsure.

It sounds like there's a lot of disagreement about whether or not feedback over merit abuse is appropriate, but I was under the impression from the start that this was something we weren't going to tolerate.

I usually don't tag accounts for PM begging

How often does this happen to you? If you don't mind me asking.

Both have more tags by now.

That tends to be the case These kinds of users are likely to attract tons of negative feedback over a period of time.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

It sounds like there's a lot of disagreement about whether or not feedback over merit abuse is appropriate, but I was under the impression from the start that this was something we weren't going to tolerate.

DT members haven't been consistently tagging suspected merit abusers, and part of the reason for that is because Theymos doesn't really want us to.  Begging for them by PM'ing members crosses a line IMO, but others may disagree.  There are no rules as far as tagging merit sales/trading/begging, just Theymos's opinion on it.  I've received maybe a handful of PM requests for merits, and I'm pretty sure I've negged each one.

Also, there's a difference between someone just saying "can you pls give me merit" vs. a member asking that you review one of their posts to see if it's merit-worthy.  The latter case doesn't deserve a neg IMO, and it's something I'm actually quite happy to do (review a member's posts).

Neutral feedback is useless in these cases, because it doesn't send any sort of message to the beggar, doesn't prohibit them from continuing to beg, and doesn't punish them in any way for doing something wrong.  Most of us know why Newbies need 1 merit and why it's so important to them--it's so that they can start advertising in their signature, and that usually presents in the form of shitposting.  If a member has to resort to begging for a single merit, their post quality is probably going to be very sub-par.

[LoyceV]

How often does this happen to you?

It doesn't happen that often.

[bill gator]

Begging for them by PM'ing members crosses a line IMO, but others may disagree.

I support this statement. It's obnoxious when I get all excited seeing that [1] next to My Messages and then it's just somebody trying to make me an accomplice in their attempt to game the system, Bastards.  

Also, there's a difference between someone just saying "can you pls give me merit" vs. a member asking that you review one of their posts to see if it's merit-worthy.  The latter case doesn't deserve a neg IMO, and it's something I'm actually quite happy to do (review a member's posts).

As you may be aware I used to run a thread for members to do exactly this and present me (and others) with posts/threads of theirs they believe were worthy for a "merit-review"; terrible word for it, but you likely understand what I mean. I encourage users to send me posts of theirs that they believe are under-merited. I only ever merit posts that I would merit naturally, but I am thankful when a post I have overlooked is brought to my attention; I am not an efficient lurker.

Neutral feedback is useless in these cases...

Neutral feedback is "useless" in most cases, but in this case it at least stands as a marker for anyone making a future evaluation of this user. For instance, if something like this ever happens again I'm sure they will receive a negative. Their posting will be more heavily scrutinized.

[VINSIN]

bill gator, when you get a brain for such a post, that actually helps no one. and you could yourself just give him a bad feedback ....

please don't become cryptohunter with 100 new stupid threads daily thanks

btw he shouldn't be tagged for it, the kiddo asked for 1 merit...i am sending all the time i can 1 merit to newbies lol...

there are at least in the last couple of days 10 1 line messages by legendary members that received merit for...where is the point of this shit at this moment!?

how a newbie can get any attention if he after 1 year here, he is still a newbie, because everyone is just avoiding his posts...

@the pharmacist, yeah you are right there, there is a difference between asking to review for merit and just ask. totally fair and i get your point.

but it's just noted shouldn't be taken in consideration.

why?

because you as known user, you'll always have your posts read. He as newbie, he will never. i hope you see my point of view

[Cameron1Love]

This isn't reason enough for Red Tag IMHO.

Theymos himself doesn't like people getting tagged over merit stuff.

Basic answer, Merit begging is not tolerated here in this forum. But if victims not complain that is smooth and suspect persons is still doing this activity.

[mikeywith]

because you as known user, you'll always have your posts read. He as newbie, he will never. i hope you see my point of view

not true, in the past month or two i got more merit than most  known members of high ranks, simply because i was posting quality posts, helping members solve their problems and providing them with valuable information.

this is all it takes to get all the merit you want/need. there is no excuse for not getting a single merit for a whole year, it only shows you are not a valuable asset to the forum.

i agree with you that there are many useless posts getting merit just for the sake of who posted them, but that's just a minority of distribution, which is never enough to be an excuse for not getting merit.

having said that i totally disagree with tagging the user for asking/begging for merit, just report his message.

[VINSIN]

because you as known user, you'll always have your posts read. He as newbie, he will never. i hope you see my point of view

not true, in the past month or two i got more merit than most  known members of high ranks, simply because i was posting quality posts, helping members solve their problems and providing them with valuable information.

this is all it takes to get all the merit you want/need. there is no excuse for not getting a single merit for a whole year, it only shows you are not a valuable asset to the forum.

i agree with you that there are many useless posts getting merit just for the sake of who posted them, but that's just a minority of distribution, which is never enough to be an excuse for not getting merit.

having said that i totally disagree with tagging the user for asking/begging for merit, just report his message.

Well, you're a sr. member. You have more power, people give you more authority. Indeed that's true, as example my thread giiving merit to good posts was deleted because i added 2 jokes, troll accepted and trolling lauda is accepted.

I still somehow believe that lauda should be trolled a lot, tho i am starting to change my opinion about this user (offtopic post).

Regarding your view, it's hard, it's really hard. And the worst is that ranks now really matters more than this idiots DT can believe or merit farms. Some users are not just made to do posts. Some users joined in 2014 and all they did is a post. If they post a trade post now, if they don't accept to send first, by default they will get red trusted. Ok maybe you can say now that users that have did no post have no trust, but the same happen with the users that registred a year ago and did only ico/alts interest posts or questions whatsoever that had no reward or interest to get a merit what the fuck, will come a sr. sold member from 2014 and say, you send first you're a newbie (even if the newbie has 300 posts and no merit).

Well it's fucked, I am quite sure Theymos and cyrus will find a way to solve this problem and make this forum great again because i really believe that it can be great.

I will post a proof soon to show how the escrow system is wrong because of how the escrows "don't want to spend their free time"

[mikeywith]

Well, you're a sr. member. You have more power, people give you more authority. Indeed that's true, as example my thread giiving merit to good posts was deleted because i added 2 jokes, troll accepted and trolling lauda is accepted.

dude i became Sr.Member like last week or so, last month i was not even a full member, only a handful of people here know me, nobody gives a shit about me, but my posts are TOP QUALITY and by default have to get merit, and so they do !.

as for your post, if i was a mod , i would have deleted it , why would you bribe people with merit to troll someone you dislike? i had a similar thread like yours, it's still there, going strong , because i asked for quality posts only. bro, really you complain about merit yet you will give merit to people for trolling lauda? this forum is much bigger than lauda or anybody else, make good use of it, don't stress yourself over a few members you dislike.  good luck

op sorry for going off-topic. if this bothers you i'll delete it.

Thanks

[VINSIN]

Well, you're a sr. member. You have more power, people give you more authority. Indeed that's true, as example my thread giiving merit to good posts was deleted because i added 2 jokes, troll accepted and trolling lauda is accepted.

dude i became Sr.Member like last week or so, last month i was not even a full member, only a handful of people here know me, nobody gives a shit about me, but my posts are TOP QUALITY and by default have to get merit, and so they do !.

as for your post, if i was a mod , i would have deleted it , why would you bribe people with merit to troll someone you dislike? i had a similar thread like yours, it's still there, going strong , because i asked for quality posts only. bro, really you complain about merit yet you will give merit to people for trolling lauda? this forum is much bigger than lauda or anybody else, make good use of it, don't stress yourself over a few members you dislike.  good luck

op sorry for going off-topic. if this bothers you i'll delete it.

Thanks

well you don't get that, if i want to merit people for tagging lauda is a choice of mine, i can do that without making it public as literally saying it.

and 2 weeks ago you were sr. member, just checked your merit history, tho this is irellevant, anything over newbie or jr member will get more visibility