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Author Topic: Do you think Bitcoin matured as a currency?  (Read 1338 times)
Kakmakr
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January 27, 2019, 07:08:22 AM
 #1

In 2017/2018 with the sharp increase in the price to the ATH of $18 000+, people were saying that Bitcoin can never be a currency with that kind of fluctuation and volatility in the price.

In the 3rd & 4th quater of 2018 up to Jan 2019, we have experienced a correction from that ATH and we are seeing much less volatility in the price. <The price hovering between $3500 and $4000>

Would you say that Bitcoin has shed it's speculator skin and emerged as a true currency, after this correction? I think with most of  the speculators left the Bitcoin scene in the last year or so and Bitcoin has truly transformed into a community of people who are more interested in the technology and using the technology as a currency. <This explains the stable price>  Huh

Let's discuss, because I am very curious in what you opinions are about this.

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January 27, 2019, 07:56:59 AM
 #2

Bitcoin is currently in the currency category in the digital, even though you say up, (In 2017/2018 with the sharp increase in the price to the ATH of $18 000+) to be a legitimate currency like one country's banknotes I think it's difficult at the moment. You know all countries already have their own currencies.
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January 27, 2019, 08:19:20 AM
Last edit: January 31, 2019, 10:16:34 AM by Danielosad
 #3

I would say bitcoin maturity as a currency not so much because of the price correction and somewhat stability now but because of there are better infrastructure on ground now that makes it easier to be deployed as a means of payment. For example,there are more  Lightning networks nodes-a second-layer protocol on the bitcoin blockchain that enables faster transactions and therefore make near instantaneous payments possible , There is more merchants who accept bitcoins than there was a year ago.
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January 27, 2019, 08:21:01 AM
 #4

In the 3rd & 4th quater of 2018 up to Jan 2019, we have experienced a correction from that ATH and we are seeing much less volatility in the price. <The price hovering between $3500 and $4000>
Honestly speaking there are a long way still to go for bitcoins to be accepted as matured currency. The key factor of a currency should be it's less volatility but currently or till now predicting this from bitcoins is not wise.

bitcoins are now around $3500 but no one know what will be the price value after a week. But consider the price between dollar/euro or dollar/pound it's predictable that there will be no big difference in near future in value.

bitcoins is still something good for investment but not everyday currency. May be Lightning Network will improve the Bitcoin and change the way we see bitcoins now.

Please see why I use bitcoins every time instead of Bitcoin 🙂

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January 27, 2019, 08:32:21 AM
 #5

I am not sure of that, because there are still many traders who want bitcoin to become crypto assets. So most traders focus on investment networks, not as crypto money. Maybe you can provide real data about investment institutions that use bitcoin and the marketplace that accepts bitcoin payments? Logically, everyone wants bitcoin to be an instant investment tool not as a currency. You can also see the daily trade between Tether and Bitcoin, both of them have the same daily volume, which means they are purely trading.
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January 27, 2019, 08:35:50 AM
 #6

I am not sure of that, because there are still many traders who want bitcoin to become crypto assets. So most traders focus on investment networks, not as crypto money. Maybe you can provide real data about investment institutions that use bitcoin and the marketplace that accepts bitcoin payments? Logically, everyone wants bitcoin to be an instant investment tool not as a currency. You can also see the daily trade between Tether and Bitcoin, both of them have the same daily volume, which means they are purely trading.
But we need to focus on accepting bitcoins as currency not a trading asset. The main obstacle we have now is that the transaction fees. I hope with Lightning Network we will be able to reduce it dramatically. The perception for Bitcoin as a trading asset should be changed.

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January 27, 2019, 08:41:01 AM
 #7

in my opinion the volatility is just an undesirable characteristic that bitcoin has as a currency. but volatility is not doing anything to nullify the currency aspect of bitcoin, it still can be and is being used as a currency even at the height of its volatile stages such as 2017 and the 100% in one month towards $20k.
When you compare the asset with current fiat system then the story is different.

To purchase a product worth $100 you are going to spend the following amount of bitcoins in two different price

@3,500 Dollar you will spend 0.02857143BTC
@20,000 Dollar you will spend 0.00500000BTC

Obviously you are holding your BTC so that in future you spend less.

Now consider valuing a product with bitcoins currency. If a product worth 0.005BTC then it's always 0.005BTC when you take off the fiat valuation.

I hope it make sense.

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January 27, 2019, 08:45:44 AM
 #8

A bit less volatility and more stability will always help bitcoin to be perceived
as a true currency and there will always be market movements just like every
other traded entity.

I dont thjnk thus is a permanent thing though. I think because of its decentralised
technology and that it can attract a lot of speculators it is teetering on the edge
of a bullrun. A lot of people are passively waiting for the signal.
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January 27, 2019, 09:00:19 AM
 #9

I am not sure of that, because there are still many traders who want bitcoin to become crypto assets. So most traders focus on investment networks, not as crypto money. Maybe you can provide real data about investment institutions that use bitcoin and the marketplace that accepts bitcoin payments? Logically, everyone wants bitcoin to be an instant investment tool not as a currency. You can also see the daily trade between Tether and Bitcoin, both of them have the same daily volume, which means they are purely trading.
But we need to focus on accepting bitcoins as currency not a trading asset. The main obstacle we have now is that the transaction fees. I hope with Lightning Network we will be able to reduce it dramatically. The perception for Bitcoin as a trading asset should be changed.
Yes because at the moment the majority of Bitcoin users make Bitcoin an asset, maybe only a few percent fully use Bitcoin as a currency. Now this is what must be improved because when more and more people make Bitcoin as a currency, the growth of Bitcoin users can be assumed to increase.
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January 27, 2019, 09:31:40 AM
 #10

in my opinion the volatility is just an undesirable characteristic that bitcoin has as a currency. but volatility is not doing anything to nullify the currency aspect of bitcoin, it still can be and is being used as a currency even at the height of its volatile stages such as 2017 and the 100% in one month towards $20k.
When you compare the asset with current fiat system then the story is different.

To purchase a product worth $100 you are going to spend the following amount of bitcoins in two different price

@3,500 Dollar you will spend 0.02857143BTC
@20,000 Dollar you will spend 0.00500000BTC

Obviously you are holding your BTC so that in future you spend less.

Now consider valuing a product with bitcoins currency. If a product worth 0.005BTC then it's always 0.005BTC when you take off the fiat valuation.

I hope it make sense.

This should not stop people from using the currency. If you buy back most of the coins that you spend, then this will not influence you. I convert all the fiat that I would have spend on expenses and entertainment into bitcoins and then I use it. This way it helps to oil the merchant network and it stimulate the demand for coins.

The Lazlo excuse is getting old now and most people know how to use this to their advantage. <Buy at a low price and spend it when it is worth more or just replace it quickly>

The thread was created to highlight the fact that reduced volatility, strengthen the currency use case for this technology.  Wink

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January 27, 2019, 09:48:34 AM
 #11

first let me say that bitcoin is still very new so talking about whether it is matured or not is a bit strange in my opinion.

in any case i think we can have two different approaches to this question which i think will modify and clarify the direction of answers in this topic.
one approach is to talk about how people treat bitcoin, another approach is ignoring what people do and focusing on what bitcoin CAN do.

so far i feel like all the replies, specially when you focus on the price and how people spend, are taking the first approach meaning how people treat bitcoin. while that is more than fine but it doesn't really tell us much about whether bitcoin itself is matured as a currency or not.

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January 27, 2019, 11:51:21 AM
Merited by Lucius (1)
 #12

In 2017/2018 with the sharp increase in the price to the ATH of $18 000+, people were saying that Bitcoin can never be a currency with that kind of fluctuation and volatility in the price.

In the 3rd & 4th quater of 2018 up to Jan 2019, we have experienced a correction from that ATH and we are seeing much less volatility in the price. <The price hovering between $3500 and $4000>

Would you say that Bitcoin has shed it's speculator skin and emerged as a true currency, after this correction? I think with most of  the speculators left the Bitcoin scene in the last year or so and Bitcoin has truly transformed into a community of people who are more interested in the technology and using the technology as a currency. <This explains the stable price>  Huh

Let's discuss, because I am very curious in what you opinions are about this.


In my opinion the technology is almost complete, it only needs offline transactions and wallets lightning network support. Most of the work remains in the habits of people, especially those living in countries where their fiat is so convenient they still use it even in physical form.

Its not a problem to those of us whose fiat became garbage overnight and you need a pile of paper that you can't even get in the first place to buy common stuff... Here we are 80%ish cashless, with heavy debit card use. And indeed some elderly can't figure how to use a debit card, they lived in a time where our fiat was even stronger than the USD at times... There is this old saying about going to Miami (FL) just to buy groceries and buy twice as needed... (Its cheap, give me two!). So you can imagine that generation here purchasing things like Cars with a few banknotes (think Saudi Arabia lifestyle), after all this country in the 60ies was the world's first oil exporter...

I felt a bit like that two years ago when i visited a neighbor country, and i saw people paying with cash in a supermarket. It gave me nostalgia of how things used to be 10 or 20 years ago... But on the other hand if feels alien (and scary) to use banknotes and coins, i feel like i need to protect them for emergencies as they became scare here last year, and the banks still force you a small limit (around 40¢ in USD) to withdraw cash per day.

So as far as electronic money, we are almost there. I don't feel weird about those european countries talking about going cashless (even before talking about cryptocurrencies) it might perhaps become normal soon worldwide.

Also i don't think the price of a bitcoin is indicator of maturity, unless you mean it remains stable against a solid asset like gold. The USD is still fairly stable but because its going down (like all fiat), bitcoin should (slowly) always be increasing its price, not unlike gold. But to me this is a perception on the people, it is humanity that needs to mature toward Bitcoin, not the other way around.

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January 27, 2019, 12:12:05 PM
 #13

It's possibly less of a currency than it's ever been in recent ish times.

The groundwork is definitely being laid for it to happen in a way it wasn't before. The people actually using it don't seem to be very interested in leaving speculation behind and the businesses attempting to offer it for the purposes of commerce seem to be contracting. That is of course partially related to beariness but even when it was vastly higher than now there was little to no mention of renewed merchant interest. 2014 was the peak of that probably, and it did not kick off.

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January 27, 2019, 12:15:18 PM
 #14

In 2017/2018 with the sharp increase in the price to the ATH of $18 000+, people were saying that Bitcoin can never be a currency with that kind of fluctuation and volatility in the price.
In the 3rd & 4th quater of 2018 up to Jan 2019, we have experienced a correction from that ATH and we are seeing much less volatility in the price. <The price hovering between $3500 and $4000>
Would you say that Bitcoin has shed it's speculator skin and emerged as a true currency, after this correction?

I do not think you should only watch last ATH and the correction that followed after that, but to remember all past pumps and correction. I think today's situation is not much different from 2013 and 82.6% drop or maybe 2015 and 86.7% drop, after which we have long period of stability. Now we are in bear market or crypto winter, and probably this kind of situation will take whole year or even more.

It is hard to believe that volatility is gone, it is just temporarily frozen until a new opportunity appears and price is skyrocket again. I personally hold back my crypto spending now just because of what is Pamoldar write, it is not same to spend at 20k $ or at 3.5k $ - It is quite obvious that at a higher price you get more in fiat value, and spend less in crypto.

However for people who invest few years ago in BTC at 200$, spending is today an attractive option despite the relatively low price. It only confirms that BTC can be great store of value, but also currency - the advantage is to combine both possibilities at the right time.

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January 27, 2019, 01:04:39 PM
 #15

I am not sure of that, because there are still many traders who want bitcoin to become crypto assets. So most traders focus on investment networks, not as crypto money. Maybe you can provide real data about investment institutions that use bitcoin and the marketplace that accepts bitcoin payments? Logically, everyone wants bitcoin to be an instant investment tool not as a currency. You can also see the daily trade between Tether and Bitcoin, both of them have the same daily volume, which means they are purely trading.
But we need to focus on accepting bitcoins as currency not a trading asset. The main obstacle we have now is that the transaction fees. I hope with Lightning Network we will be able to reduce it dramatically. The perception for Bitcoin as a trading asset should be changed.
In simple lightning networks can indeed be used as an alternative transaction, but not fully running transparently. Because you will see LN with blockchain not having an honest confirmation value.
Next, let's look at data on coin dance, from 110 countries that accept bitcoin (legal), there are 23 countries that position bitcoin as a commodity, 52 countries that make bitcoin as a currency, 8 countries that position property and 2 countries position money. The data cannot be used as the main reference, because we do not know how big their daily transactions are with bitcoin whether they use it as a commodity or currency.
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January 27, 2019, 01:55:40 PM
 #16

In 2017/2018 with the sharp increase in the price to the ATH of $18 000+, people were saying that Bitcoin can never be a currency with that kind of fluctuation and volatility in the price.
In the 3rd & 4th quater of 2018 up to Jan 2019, we have experienced a correction from that ATH and we are seeing much less volatility in the price. <The price hovering between $3500 and $4000>
Would you say that Bitcoin has shed it's speculator skin and emerged as a true currency, after this correction?

I do not think you should only watch last ATH and the correction that followed after that, but to remember all past pumps and correction. I think today's situation is not much different from 2013 and 82.6% drop or maybe 2015 and 86.7% drop, after which we have long period of stability. Now we are in bear market or crypto winter, and probably this kind of situation will take whole year or even more.

It is hard to believe that volatility is gone, it is just temporarily frozen until a new opportunity appears and price is skyrocket again. I personally hold back my crypto spending now just because of what is Pamoldar write, it is not same to spend at 20k $ or at 3.5k $ - It is quite obvious that at a higher price you get more in fiat value, and spend less in crypto.

However for people who invest few years ago in BTC at 200$, spending is today an attractive option despite the relatively low price. It only confirms that BTC can be great store of value, but also currency - the advantage is to combine both possibilities at the right time.

Yes, Lucius.. we have not seen the last of the wild volatility that we were used to, but for now most of the volatility has died down and much of this is due to less speculators pumping and dumping the coins.

They will return in their hoards if the SEC approve a Bitcoin ETF and then we will see even more volatility than before. The current price stability has a lot to do with less speculators in the markets and people hoarding their coins in anticipation for the next Bull market.  Wink

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January 27, 2019, 02:39:44 PM
 #17

For bitcoin to matured as a true currency in the real world financial sector I think still there are certain qualities it should gain and stability of the price is significant among many things because high volatility can be definitely point out as an obstacle for bitcoin progress because it makes majority of Organizations and clients hesitate to combine there businesses or make payments with bitcoin because in a little time it can do a big profit loss so bitcoin might need more time to matured as a mainstream currency

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January 27, 2019, 02:45:42 PM
 #18

In the 3rd & 4th quater of 2018 up to Jan 2019, we have experienced a correction from that ATH and we are seeing much less volatility in the price. <The price hovering between $3500 and $4000>

Would you say that Bitcoin has shed it's speculator skin and emerged as a true currency, after this correction? I think with most of  the speculators left the Bitcoin scene in the last year or so and Bitcoin has truly transformed into a community of people who are more interested in the technology and using the technology as a currency. <This explains the stable price>  Huh
There is still lots of speculations about the price, and i would say a lot of hodlers are still anticipating movements in the price, this is no suprise when you consider that most bought at a much higher price than it is at now, and would naturally expect profit from their investments.
The current price stability may be as a result of some other price parameter.
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January 27, 2019, 02:54:36 PM
 #19

In 2017/2018 with the sharp increase in the price to the ATH of $18 000+, people were saying that Bitcoin can never be a currency with that kind of fluctuation and volatility in the price.

In the 3rd & 4th quater of 2018 up to Jan 2019, we have experienced a correction from that ATH and we are seeing much less volatility in the price. <The price hovering between $3500 and $4000>

Would you say that Bitcoin has shed it's speculator skin and emerged as a true currency, after this correction? I think with most of  the speculators left the Bitcoin scene in the last year or so and Bitcoin has truly transformed into a community of people who are more interested in the technology and using the technology as a currency. <This explains the stable price>  Huh

You are wrong about it. Bitcoin went down to $4k for the first time in the end of November, which is the end of Q4 2018. Before that, the price was mainly between $6k and $7k. The almost 2x decrease happened fast and btc is now stuck with the new price barrier. So it hasn't been really stable. Moreover, I think that while stability would be good for bitcoin as money, the price should at least reach something like ATH. Before it happens, people will not feel motivated enough to start using the coin. Remember that many investors lost the hell lot because of the bearish trend that came all of a sudden. Bitcoin has to prove that people who kept holding didn't lose, and then we can talk about maturity.

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January 27, 2019, 03:26:06 PM
 #20

IMO, bitcoin is investment tool not currency ( yes, it has advantage as currency )
So they can't be compare because they are different.

Eventhough the government already legalize crypto, doesn't mean it has potential to replace fiat,right
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