Cryptos would only have value in a dystopian economy said JP Morgan

[audaciousbeing]

The position of JP Morgan had been known since the beginning of things especially when crypto started gaining the right amount of momentum and they begin to notice the continued popularity. However, their assumptions is correct in the mean time because its really going to be difficult to have the kind of economy that would give  crypto the maximum support but there is a shocker to them which is that, if there is consistency in the push of adoption, it won't be for long that there will be an area of convergence that crypto would feature and won't create any form of disruption.

[ðºÞæ]

No, in anti-utopia environment power outages would be frequent, internet almost non exist and shops without laptops and other electronic equipment closed. 
Bartering would thrive and be king, a roll of toiled paper has a lot of value.

[South Park]

@pooyah87. It is also quite ironic that an institution like JP Morgan brought up the thought of a dystopian economy when their kind are the kind of parasites that feed on the people and bring dystopia.

Do we thank them for giving bitcoin its value hehehe?

It is interesting that the more they express their opinion about bitcoin they also reveal their fear and why bitcoin exist at all, if governments around the world managed their economies in a responsible way and did not print money as if they wanted to crash their economies then there will not be any kind of need for bitcoin and I will not see any point for decentralization when a government has conducted itself in such a responsible way, but since opposite is what it's happening then I see the need for something like bitcoin, it seems to me that it really bothers them that they are the reason bitcoin exists.

[timerland]

Thank Satoshi that bitcoin was invented because JP Morgan and friends are making the dystopian economy real hehehe.

However, bitcoin already has value, does that imply that we are already in a dystopian economy? Will a higher value also imply that we are deeper into dystopia? Have they run out of fud ideas?



Investment bank JPMorgan Chase has said that cryptocurrencies would only have value in a dystopian economy.

In a recent note to its clients, the firm said that it was skeptical of the value of cryptocurrencies apart from in a “dystopia” where investors have lost confidence in “all major reserve assets (dollar, euro, yen, gold) and in the payments system,” according to a report from Business Insider on Monday.

The banking giant further said that, though cryptocurrencies have a low correlation to traditional asset classes such as shares and bonds, they are not the best bet for diversification. “Low correlations have little value if the hedge asset itself is in a bear market.”

JPMorgan also reportedly said earlier this week that, with prices so low, bitcoin is worth less than the cost to mine it.

Source https://www.coindesk.com/cryptocurrencies-would-only-have-value-in-dystopian-economy-jpmorgan

As you say, they make a completely invalid point, because bitcoin already has value that is brought by supply and demand. Them suggesting bitcoin would only have value in crises is blatant BS, as essentially they are ignoring bitcoin's current price/value completely.

The thing is that bitcoin, given its independent status and decentralized nature will probably perform quite well in "dystopian economies". As people lose faith in fiat, like in countries like Venezuela where people's trust in the Bolivar has been completely shattered, bitcoin's demand should theoretically increase as people look for alternative means of transacting, that also comes with the long term store of value aspect.

But that doesn't mean bitcoin can't be useful as a hedge, a currency, and as a store of value in periods of "normal economic activity". People use bitcoin to transact globally every single day. Bitcoin is also used as an investment hedge against the fiat economy, for example, just to name a few uses.

[Wind_FURY]

It's nothing but another FUD campaign by the banksters, who are most probably running out of narrative to make Bitcoin look worthless, useless, and evil.

Hodl Bitcoin, short banksters.

[BitHodler]

As people lose faith in fiat, like in countries like Venezuela where people's trust in the Bolivar has been completely shattered, bitcoin's demand should theoretically increase as people look for alternative means of transacting, that also comes with the long term store of value aspect.

There has been a spike in BTC volume in Venezuela, but it's still too insignificant to take seriously. It could also be caused by local market makers exploiting the premiums, so it would then be speculative volume.

I wonder if there are actual examples of usage as currency within any of the shaky countries we keep reading about. If we had to believe news outlets countries as Venezuela became crypto hotspots, but that's not the case at all.

I'm sure that most of the alternative currency use within these shaky countries is related to the US Dollar rather than whatever crypto currency. It makes a way better currency than anything else for them.

[davis196]

WTF?JP Morgan Chase said?A bank can't "say" anyhting.
Some JP Morgan Chase banker or clerk said this,but he remains anonymous.Is he the new Jamie Dimon?
Bitcoin doesn't have to replace reserve currencies,in order to have and maintain it's value.

[Wind_FURY]

As people lose faith in fiat, like in countries like Venezuela where people's trust in the Bolivar has been completely shattered, bitcoin's demand should theoretically increase as people look for alternative means of transacting, that also comes with the long term store of value aspect.

There has been a spike in BTC volume in Venezuela, but it's still too insignificant to take seriously. It could also be caused by local market makers exploiting the premiums, so it would then be speculative volume.

I wonder if there are actual examples of usage as currency within any of the shaky countries we keep reading about. If we had to believe news outlets countries as Venezuela became crypto hotspots, but that's not the case at all.

I'm sure that most of the alternative currency use within these shaky countries is related to the US Dollar rather than whatever crypto currency. It makes a way better currency than anything else for them.

I believe it's because less people have access to Bitcoin and Bitcoin exchanges.

Make it more accessible, would you still believe that more Venezuelans would prefer to hold the Bolivar than Bitcoin?

[exstasie]

There has been a spike in BTC volume in Venezuela, but it's still too insignificant to take seriously. It could also be caused by local market makers exploiting the premiums, so it would then be speculative volume.

I believe it's because less people have access to Bitcoin and Bitcoin exchanges.

Make it more accessible, would you still believe that more Venezuelans would prefer to hold the Bolivar than Bitcoin?

Given a choice between the two they'll prefer Bitcoin, sure. If Venezuelans had to choose between Bolivars and sacks of sugar, I'm sure they'd choose the sugar too. That doesn't mean BTC (or sacks of sugar) is what they really want. This is what they actually want:

Increasingly, the line between survival and starvation is determined not by having a job or an education, but something else.

Access to U.S. dollars.

There needs to be more than just access to Bitcoin exchanges. There needs to be actual demand for BTC among merchants, producers, etc. otherwise nobody can spend them. Venezuelans can spend USD anywhere (because people are willing to accept it, because it holds its value). So USD is king.

[P_Shep]

Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?

[ðºÞæ]

Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?

Arbitrage trading is reasonable.

[P_Shep]

Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?

Arbitrage trading is reasonable.

Surely still, somewhere down the line, someone ends up with a hyper-inflating currency?
Also, would arbitrage handle the volume?

[1Referee]

Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?

Aside from the profiteering aspect, people are stupid enough to believe that the next time will be different, and that's how they continue to have faith in something that will eventually implode completely.

I'm pretty certain that when people finally realize how toxic the Bolivar is, no one will be stupid enough to convert Bitcoin to Bolivars. One doesn't convert utter garbage to Gold, but it still happens. Ignorance is a crucial aspect within basically any dictatorial regime. It's an effective weapon. The less people know, the lower the odds are that they will figure out how to work around that system.

[Harlot]

In a recent note to its clients, the firm said that it was skeptical of the value of cryptocurrencies apart from in a “dystopia” where investors have lost confidence in “all major reserve assets (dollar, euro, yen, gold) and in the payments system,”

Says by the investment bank who only helps rich people become richer, these greedy bastards really have nothing good to say on things they are scared the most or at least see as a threat on their business. They know that these kind of assets (cryptocurrency) can upset the balance in terms of social hierarchy, they know that cryptocurrencies can create new breeds of millionaires within weeks from their personal investment and they are afraid that they will run out of business because of them.

[gentlemand]

Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?

I often wonder that but the most obvious answer is everyday expenses.

You can't spend BTC for most of life's necessities. Keep most of your money in BTC and drip feed out of it when you have to buy something vital and it's a pretty neat arrangement provided you can keep doing it.

[el kaka22]

I believe it's because less people have access to Bitcoin and Bitcoin exchanges.

Make it more accessible, would you still believe that more Venezuelans would prefer to hold the Bolivar than Bitcoin?

No, it is not about access, its about them not having anything. I talked about this somewhere else as well I think but those people in Venezuela do not have food or clothes or anything they own and have hard time living, I have seen people boiling a SHOE in a water to make it taste something and drink like soup. Now, you expect if we install 1000 bitcoin ATM all over Venezuela you can change that persons life somehow ? They do not have a bread to eat and we assume bitcoin could change their lives ?

I mean of course there were some rich people or above average people who took their money out to bitcoin to save from inflation and made money purely on inflation reasons even while bitcoin was going down but bitcoin would have helped 20%-30% of the population at best, there are about 50% of them dying right now and bitcoin is the last thing they need.

[gentlemand]

No, it is not about access, its about them not having anything. I talked about this somewhere else as well I think but those people in Venezuela do not have food or clothes or anything they own and have hard time living, I have seen people boiling a SHOE in a water to make it taste something and drink like soup. Now, you expect if we install 1000 bitcoin ATM all over Venezuela you can change that persons life somehow ? They do not have a bread to eat and we assume bitcoin could change their lives ?

I remember reading an interview with a Venezuelan who made the point that even if you had money, the supply of most things is basically no longer there. It's a double whammy of the local currency and the local distribution of everything failing at once.

[fabiorem]

We are already in a dystopian economy.

If you lend money to the bank, the interest paid is minimal.

If the bank lend money to you, the interest paid is monstrous.

[figmentofmyass]

No, it is not about access, its about them not having anything. I talked about this somewhere else as well I think but those people in Venezuela do not have food or clothes or anything they own and have hard time living, I have seen people boiling a SHOE in a water to make it taste something and drink like soup. Now, you expect if we install 1000 bitcoin ATM all over Venezuela you can change that persons life somehow ? They do not have a bread to eat and we assume bitcoin could change their lives ?

it reminds me of depression era stories i used to hear about people eating "dirt soup" and things like that. indeed, it seems silly to think that this is a strong basis for bitcoin adoption.

Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?

for the same reason traders short bull markets. they think they can outsmart the market, and for a time they might be right. eventually, they'll be run over and lose all their coins when people stampede for the exits.

[Wind_FURY]

There has been a spike in BTC volume in Venezuela, but it's still too insignificant to take seriously. It could also be caused by local market makers exploiting the premiums, so it would then be speculative volume.

I believe it's because less people have access to Bitcoin and Bitcoin exchanges.

Make it more accessible, would you still believe that more Venezuelans would prefer to hold the Bolivar than Bitcoin?

Given a choice between the two they'll prefer Bitcoin, sure. If Venezuelans had to choose between Bolivars and sacks of sugar, I'm sure they'd choose the sugar too. That doesn't mean BTC (or sacks of sugar) is what they really want. This is what they actually want:

Increasingly, the line between survival and starvation is determined not by having a job or an education, but something else.

Access to U.S. dollars.

There needs to be more than just access to Bitcoin exchanges. There needs to be actual demand for BTC among merchants, producers, etc. otherwise nobody can spend them. Venezuelans can spend USD anywhere (because people are willing to accept it, because it holds its value). So USD is king.

Yes exactly, the point was not because Bitcoin is "the best", which it really is. But if you make it very accessible, more accessible than the dollar, then volumes would surely rise.

"USD is king" because it might be easier to convert, more accessible, more people use it, easier to spend no internet required.