The reason behind "permanent" banning?

[encycrypto]

Recently, I read the following thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5104259.0

...and felt bad for its OP. It looks a bit harsh and cruel to permanently ban an account for spamming, plagiarism, or whatever the (similar) reason is. It's like a lifetime prison! Even if the thief is caught stealing, it doesn't give him a lifetime imprisonment, instead he's freed after 2, 3 or 5 years. Why can't we apply the same rule here? Most stupid people won't understand anything without a ban (no matter how many warnings they are given). However, going for a lifetime ban for this still looks very harsh.

IMO, lifetime bans should be replaced with something like 90-days ban. This much duration is enough to make someone realise the mistake!

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[owlcatz]

Recently, I read the following thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5104259.0

...and felt bad for its OP. It looks a bit harsh and cruel to permanently ban an account for spamming, plagiarism, or whatever the (similar) reason is. It's like a lifetime prison! Even if the thief is caught stealing, it doesn't give him a lifetime imprisonment, instead he's freed after 2, 3 or 5 years. Why can't we apply the same rule here? Most stupid people won't understand anything without a ban (no matter how many warnings they are given). However, going for a lifetime ban for this still looks very harsh.

IMO, lifetime bans should be replaced with something like 90-days ban. This much duration is enough to make someone realise the mistake!

Your opinion is understandable, however, you or I do not make the rules. It's a privately owned forum, deal with it. 🤷‍♂️

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Don't feel bad for people like that.  They didn't read the rules before they plagiarized content, and you shouldn't even have to know there's a rule in place on a forum to know better.  The rule is there, and so is the consequence for breaking the rule.  In case you haven't noticed, plagiarism here is like an epidemic, and the punishment for doing it doesn't need to be softened--plus this topic has come up before and the general consensus was that lifetime bans were appropriate.  Theymos didn't change a thing.

That particular ban appeal that you linked to was so full of heartfelt emotion and a cry for mercy....and you fell for it.  Members who pull this shit aren't being honest right from the start and don't expect them to learn their lesson.  They'll just keep trying to figure out ways to not get caught, because there's a reason why they resort to copy/pasting:  they don't know how to write, or have nothing to say, and they have to write something in order to get paid from the bounty they're in.  It's just laziness mixed with dishonesty, and that kind of behavior does not need to be tempered with mercy.

This is not the justice system, and any comparisons between the rules of an internet forum and any given legal system are just plain wrong.

[LTU_btc]

Why this case is special? User break forum rules more than once and received punishemt. It's harsh, but fair. It's his fault that he didn't read forum rules.
I don't think agree that ban duration for plagiators should be implemented. Plagiarism is a cancer of this forum and we should find against it severly. It's public secret that many of banned users just continue using forum from new account, or they just buy rsnked account. And from what I see ban evasion is another problem - such users rarely get caught and banned.
BTW, in general only copy-pasters and malware spammers don't get second chance. If user break other rules he usually get ban for 2 weeks, month or more.

[encycrypto]

Why this case is special?

I'm not talking about that particular case, I'm talking in general here.

That particular ban appeal that you linked to was so full of heartfelt emotion and a cry for mercy....and you fell for it. 

Yup, I guess so.

[suchmoon]

Ban is not a prison sentence. The user is free to do whatever they want except to post on ONE site of millions on the internet. This is like being banned from Walmart in Rochester, NH for shitting in the middle of a grocery aisle. Fully deserved and adequate.

[DooMAD]

It looks a bit harsh and cruel to permanently ban an account for spamming, plagiarism, or whatever the (similar) reason is. It's like a lifetime prison! Even if the thief is caught stealing, it doesn't give him a lifetime imprisonment, instead he's freed after 2, 3 or 5 years. Why can't we apply the same rule here? Most stupid people won't understand anything without a ban (no matter how many warnings they are given). However, going for a lifetime ban for this still looks very harsh.

We have a disproportionately high number of thieves here, though.  And it's likely that many of them would re-offend shortly after being allowed back.  Some might argue, with the punishment as harsh as it is, they should really pay more attention to the rules and not do it to begin with.  Plus, the fact that many of them are now resorting to word-substitutes means they absolutely know what they are doing is wrong.  They're taking deliberate actions to avoid getting caught.  Then they claim they didn't know about the rule.  Don't fall for it.  Enough people have been made an example of, but some people are still doing it.  The opportunity is there for people to learn from the mistakes of others, but they aren't.  That's on them.

[stompix]

It's like a lifetime prison! Even if the thief is caught stealing, it doesn't give him a lifetime imprisonment, instead he's freed after 2, 3 or 5 years.

Stop with this stupid comparison.

When you go to prison you are locked up, you can't go to a movie, you can't go on a trip, you can't see your family whenever you want, in some cases, you can't even get laid or you get laid without wanting to.

The only punishment a banned user is getting here is that he can no longer post on this forum.
Unless they were 3 month old babies when they created their account they did manage to get around in life without an account here. And guess what, 7 billion people do the same!!!!

So stop with the drama, it's not like we're sentencing him to the electric chair or even formatting his porn drive.

That particular ban appeal that you linked to was so full of heartfelt emotion and a cry for mercy....and you fell for it.  

Yup, I guess so.

Probably in less than one week, he will be back on the forum selling his cards and coupons, nobody leaves this forum for real.

[encycrypto]

Seems like a lot of Chips men didn't like my example, oh well, I thought that I was doing just hilariously fine. A little bit of funny stuff and sarcasm within a post shouldn't have hurt much.

I just read the last somewhat similar thread related to the topic we're currently discussing, and it seems like there was a poll that time asking if the permanent ban should be removed. Funny, only like 26% people voted that it should remain as is, and about 74% voted that it should be changed.

[suchmoon]

Seems like a lot of Chips men didn't like my example, oh well, I thought that I was doing just hilariously fine. A little bit of funny stuff and sarcasm within a post shouldn't have hurt much.

I just read the last somewhat similar thread related to the topic we're currently discussing, and it seems like there was a poll that time asking if the permanent ban should be removed. Funny, only like 26% people voted that it should remain as is, and about 74% voted that it should be changed.

This? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5087992.0

Temporary ban - which is what you're proposing here - wasn't even suggested there. Signature ban would be an interesting option and I would support it, although I think it's a bit of a waste of effort considering that 99%+ of plagiarizers would likely stop posting or would re-offend and get banned for real.

But until and unless we get the sig ban option, permaban it is.

[bones261]

Seems like a lot of Chips men didn't like my example, oh well, I thought that I was doing just hilariously fine. A little bit of funny stuff and sarcasm within a post shouldn't have hurt much.

I just read the last somewhat similar thread related to the topic we're currently discussing, and it seems like there was a poll that time asking if the permanent ban should be removed. Funny, only like 26% people voted that it should remain as is, and about 74% voted that it should be changed.

This? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5087992.0

Temporary ban - which is what you're proposing here - wasn't even suggested there. Signature ban would be an interesting option and I would support it, although I think it's a bit of a waste of effort considering that 99%+ of plagiarizers would likely stop posting or would re-offend and get banned for real.

But until and unless we get the sig ban option, permaban it is.

Yes, the signature ban may help with sig sliging. However, what solution should we implement for thread bumping bots? Don't some of these get busted because the bots use the same content later on to post fake conversations? A signature ban may hurt them a little because they can't earn a side income from sig slinging. However, they are getting paid to spread prepackaged bullshit to ann threads. Oh well, maybe it doesn't matter because the people running thread bumping services are usually crafty enough to modify their bots and create an army of accounts.

[DireWolfM14]

It's like a lifetime prison! Even if the thief is caught stealing, it doesn't give him a lifetime imprisonment, instead he's freed after 2, 3 or 5 years.

This is not a very good comparison.  Don't think of it as a prison sentence, think of it as getting fired from a job.  If you get caught stealing from your employer or violating their conflict of interest rules you will get fired from that job, and it's very unlikely that you'll be hired back by that company.

Anyone who is caught plagiarizing on this forum is welcome to seek out membership at a number of other cryptocurrency related forums, and if they're smart they won't make the same mistake there.

I personally have a little tolerance for plagiarism.  It's theft, plain and simple.

[r1s2g3]

OP, look like you are caring for user who do not care for the forum. There are so many users who got banned , created another account ( ban evasion) and second account again got banned for the reasons same as first one.
Hilariousandco already have thread about the alternative punishment instead of permanent ban, feel free to contribute there.

[tranthidung]

It looks a bit harsh and cruel to permanently ban an account for spamming, plagiarism, or whatever the (similar) reason is. It's like a lifetime prison!

Before starting a topic like this, you should read or re-read the pinned topic first.
Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ
The rule #33 (last one) is:

33. Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.[e]

And, theymos emphasized that even years after the publishing day of posts, if plagiarism found, users will get permanent ban.
I will quote the original post of theymos later, when I saw it again, not found ATM.  I don't remember where I read it

Recent weeks, one user raised a request to un-ban for permanent banned users if they improved over time (or something like this, if I remembered well).
Alternatives to Permabans for plagarism (by hilariousetc)

I have to hangout now, sorry.  

[suchmoon]

Yes, the signature ban may help with sig sliging. However, what solution should we implement for thread bumping bots? Don't some of these get busted because the bots use the same content later on to post fake conversations? A signature ban may hurt them a little because they can't earn a side income from sig slinging. However, they are getting paid to spread prepackaged bullshit to ann threads. Oh well, maybe it doesn't matter because the people running thread bumping services are usually crafty enough to modify their bots and create an army of accounts.

I think the sig ban should be an option only for high-rank accounts (Sr. Member and above?) that have something to lose. It's obviously meaningless for Newbies.

Alternatively the penalty could be zeroing-out offender's merits (basically deranking to newbie and taking away the sig), except if the offender has fewer than N (e.g. 100 or 250) merits - in that case permaban. This would take care of repeat offenders without having to track if it's their 1st/2nd/nth offense. Most would be unlikely to ever earn N merits again.

[awawo]

Plagiarism is very serious offense just like terrorism is, because you are stealing someone else hard work without acknowledging the original owner of the content. And if you take your time to go through the forum rules you will see that their are other measures of punishing member, such as temporary ban and first time and second time offender which come with stipulated time ban. I think this should be enough warning for forum member who endorsed in the act of plagiarism.

[mu_enrico]

Permanent bans are common in the internet forums by the way. Do you know what is scarier? You as a person is also permanently banned from using this forum.

But,

Sometimes people here are more forgiving, and let the culprits start over with new accounts. They will be fine as long as they really change their behavior. But, from what I see, I lost faith in humanity. "People don't change."

[virendarnagpal]

Copy pasting is like making fool of others.  Any effort In a greed to earn money / merits by breaking forum rules, if not dealt with properly will be at the  cost of others who are doing some labor to complete this job.  
So punishment is must; which is permanent ban presently.  
Though I do not seen any chance but may be the punishment (perma ban) changes in future if the administrators think any change to be beneficial for the forum.  

[TalkStar]

IMO, lifetime bans should be replaced with something like 90-days ban. This much duration is enough to make someone realise the mistake!

Honestly if you try find difference between real life prison & lifetime ban from forum than you have to understand the result of punishment first.

 In real life people get punishment for a period of time. Where he signs a  lot of agreements during his bail. Thats why if he commit any further crime in future will get more punishment according to his agreement.

But in forum if anyone did the same thing twice you have nothing to do. Because its not possible to take legal actions against him. So its the best choice to give anyone lifetime ban. Otherwise there's always a chance for another scam.

[Xal0lex]

And, theymos emphasized that even years after the publishing day of posts, if plagiarism found, users will get permanent ban.
I will quote the original post of theymos later, when I saw it again, not found ATM.  I don't remember where I read it

It's written in the topic Writing a welcome message.

Plagiarism: If you copy some text from somewhere, then you should have a good reason for it, and you must link to the source. Doing otherwise is plagiarism. Changing a few words around doesn't matter. If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, even if we find it years after you did it.