[300 PH][BTC PPS 100%][EN/CN/RU] Sigmapool.com

[MoparMiningLLC]

There it is, confirmed that they don't pay out any transaction fees that one makes on just about any other pool in the world.

Run, run far away from this pool, which really looks to just be a small server farm.

which is why I find it amazing that so many forum users are running sig banners for this pool - even forum people that represent other pools.

[1714563771]

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[1714563771]

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[OgNasty]

While I think complaining about users paying the Bitcoin network fee and trying to claim that is somehow the pool lying about charging fees is a bit of a stretch, keeping transaction fees should be noted somewhere if that is what is occurring.  I have sent Sigma a message asking him to make this point clear on his site, at the very least with an asterisk next to his 0 fees claim explaining his logic.  Hopefully we see some more transparency here in the coming days/weeks, or I may shut down the signature campaign. 

[rifleman74]

While I think complaining about users paying the Bitcoin network fee and trying to claim that is somehow the pool lying about charging fees is a bit of a stretch...

How is that a bit of a stretch?  You're being charged money to withdraw from the pool, do you call that a gift to the Bitcoin network or something else?

[MoparMiningLLC]

it would also go a bit better if the fee was listed and if it was detailed that they keep the transaction fees. To advertise as a "no-fee" pool is more of a stretch then us complaining about their fees and lack of being straight forward about their fees. Either way, I wont use the pool as even with the 5% bonus they provided due to no transaction fees and paying network fees the payments are smaller than any other pool.

[kano]

While I think complaining about users paying the Bitcoin network fee and trying to claim that is somehow the pool lying about charging fees is a bit of a stretch, keeping transaction fees should be noted somewhere if that is what is occurring.  I have sent Sigma a message asking him to make this point clear on his site, at the very least with an asterisk next to his 0 fees claim explaining his logic.  Hopefully we see some more transparency here in the coming days/weeks, or I may shut down the signature campaign.  

There's still the issue of running a PPS pool and the REQUIRED balance and fees to reduce the risk of it going broke and the losses for those mining if that happens.
Try to remember back 6 & 5 years ago how that went with MtRed and BitAffNet ... ... ... ... ...

However, "no fees" is a plain and simple lie and you know it.
A 100% PPS pool payout is keeping transaction fees.
Charging a payout fee for all payouts is also a fee.

There is no stretch, you clearly are only interested in being paid for a campaign.
So clearly you can be easily bought ...

[OgNasty]

There is no stretch, you clearly are only interested in being paid for a campaign.
So clearly you can be easily bought ...

I’ve watched you whine about every other pool here for years in your own self interest. Forgive me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt.

I’ve requested the issue be addressed, and I will wait and see how it is. That is the rational adult thing to do.

[pussyhunter6969]

regardless of hate some senior members having towards you, i really like the project.

can you please add anonymous mining mode just like ckpool ?

[rifleman74]

I’ve watched you whine about every other pool here for years in your own self interest. Forgive me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt.

I’ve requested the issue be addressed, and I will wait and see how it is. That is the rational adult thing to do.

Nah, the rational adult thing to do is to be "paid" first for a sig banner and then ask questions later.  

[HagssFIN]

Og, I think it would be a wise choice to quit the signature campaign.

[kano]

I’ve watched you whine about every other pool here for years in your own self interest. Forgive me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt.

I’ve requested the issue be addressed, and I will wait and see how it is. That is the rational adult thing to do.

LOL
Trying to justify why you readily accepted payment to have a sig that lies and didn't check it beforehand

You now know it's a lie ... or you're an idiot who doesn't know anything about bitcoin pools ... you tell me which one it is

Edit: P.S. Provide one, not every pool like you have said, just one link here on the forum that is me "whine about every other pool here for years in your own self interest"
You ran a (dubious) pool so you 'supposedly' know how pools work ... so you know your sig is a lie.

[MoparMiningLLC]

I’ve watched you whine about every other pool here for years in your own self interest. Forgive me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt.

I’ve requested the issue be addressed, and I will wait and see how it is. That is the rational adult thing to do.

we have all asked for them to address it, they skirt it and avoid it.

[OgNasty]

Og, I think it would be a wise choice to quit the signature campaign.

The goal shouldn't be shutting down a signature campaign, the goal should be transparency.  If they are making claims that are suspect, we should see that they are addressed, either with a change to their advertisement claims, or by changing their service to meet their claims.  That is positive change I would like to be a part of.  I've sent them a message requesting more information that has not yet been responded to.  If they have not responded to my message with some sort of an action plan in the next 24 hours, I will determine my action going forward.  One thing I will not do is make a knee jerk reaction.

As to kano, I am not an idiot, nor is my motivation financial.  Don't make the mistake of thinking we are similar.  

[kano]

The goal shouldn't be shutting down a signature campaign, the goal should be transparency.  If they are making claims that are suspect, we should see that they are addressed, either with a change to their advertisement claims, or by changing their service to meet their claims.  That is positive change I would like to be a part of.  I've sent them a message requesting more information that has not yet been responded to.  If they have not responded to my message with some sort of an action plan in the next 24 hours, I will determine my action going forward.  One thing I will not do is make a knee jerk reaction.

As to kano, I am not an idiot, nor is my motivation financial.  Don't make the mistake of thinking we are similar. 

Indeed we are not similar.
You can be bought (and very easily)

Few people consider using a small part of their brain, to do VERY simple math, a knee jerk reaction.

Yeah it might be a tough one for you, or a knee jerk reaction to notice it, but indeed (100 - payout fees) is less than the current ~101.7

Though knowing that current ~101.7 number would require a (very) little amount of knowledge of how bitcoin mining works.

[rifleman74]

The goal shouldn't be shutting down a signature campaign, the goal should be transparency.  If they are making claims that are suspect, we should see that they are addressed, either with a change to their advertisement claims, or by changing their service to meet their claims.  That is positive change I would like to be a part of.  I've sent them a message requesting more information that has not yet been responded to.  If they have not responded to my message with some sort of an action plan in the next 24 hours, I will determine my action going forward.  One thing I will not do is make a knee jerk reaction.

As to kano, I am not an idiot, nor is my motivation financial.  Don't make the mistake of thinking we are similar.  

Time's up.  Pop Quiz hot shot...what do you do?

[OgNasty]

The goal shouldn't be shutting down a signature campaign, the goal should be transparency.  If they are making claims that are suspect, we should see that they are addressed, either with a change to their advertisement claims, or by changing their service to meet their claims.  That is positive change I would like to be a part of.  I've sent them a message requesting more information that has not yet been responded to.  If they have not responded to my message with some sort of an action plan in the next 24 hours, I will determine my action going forward.  One thing I will not do is make a knee jerk reaction.

As to kano, I am not an idiot, nor is my motivation financial.  Don't make the mistake of thinking we are similar.  

Indeed we are not similar.
You can be bought (and very easily)

Few people consider using a small part of their brain, to do VERY simple math, a knee jerk reaction.

Yeah it might be a tough one for you, or a knee jerk reaction to notice it, but indeed (100 - payout fees) is less than the current ~101.7

Though knowing that current ~101.7 number would require a (very) little amount of knowledge of how bitcoin mining works.

Look, I get that your goal is to remove all competition so you can keep eating off miners.  You are clearly financially motivated.  I am not, as I couldn't care less about the few bitcents I'm paid for running this campaign.  Seeing you insult me and act like those funds are somehow important to me shows that 1) you don't know what the fuck you're talking about & 2) you are so scared and hell bent on trying to remove any perceived competition from your pool whatsoever, you will insult innocent members who are trying to help people grow here.  How truly pathetic.  I had no idea you were so fearful of competition.  I guess this bear market has been harder on pool operators than I noticed.  Probably explains why the brains of your operation went a different route with his pool.

I'll say it again, if there are claims that you or anyone is threatened by, you can make a clear case on what you would be satisfied with, and I will work with the pool to get any questionable claims removed, or further explained for transparency.  If anyone would like to make suggestions on steps the pool should take to correct questionable advertising claims, I would love to hear them so that I can work to have the changes implemented.  If you want to cry about competition and insult people out of fear that your free lunch is threatened, you're only damaging the attempts to bring transparency to this pool and delaying any action, which is not appreciated by anyone.

I have received communication regarding this issue and am suggesting that any questionable claims be clearly explained on the site.  Notably, it should say that users pay the network fees for their payouts and that the pool keeps the network transaction fees from solved blocks.  Is there anything else I missed?

I am opening a different thread.  Since Kano says I am an idiot and don't have the right to post in this thread.

Pretty typical.  If you have any recommendations for how to properly resolve this issue, feel free to PM me.  I'm not getting any constructive responses from kano, so clearly he isn't interested in bringing anything positive to this thread and just wants a platform to whine and call names.

Kano saying this pool needs that reserve  to have a low chance 0.1%  of going bankrupt is deceptive.

In fact  he has even deceived his own self and simply refuses to see or agree to what I am saying.

So

1) I don't mine here and won't mine here.
2) I don't believe Kano intentionally acted to deceive anyone.
3) I think he is simply applying the formula blindly.
4) I think he believed I accused him of intentional deception
5) I do not think kano  post the solution to the formula to deceive people on purpose

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5109937.msg49738589#msg49738589

I have new thread

My intentions is to show that the formula called be solved correctly

and used incorrectly.

Not to show kano was trying to fool people into not mining with this pool.

Perhaps he wasn't trying to deceive people into not mining with this pool and he's just not very smart.  That seems to contradict his own statements, but maybe I'm just too dumb to post here too.  I'll post on your thread asking for suggestions on changes to their advertising and see if maybe a kano-less conversation (if he isn't already crying there as well) could perhaps lead to some positive changes.

EDIT - oops it's locked.

EDIT #2 - I have removed the "no fee" claim from the signature advertising campaign and messaged all participants that they should immediately remove this claim as well while we await updates to be made to the website.

[MoparMiningLLC]

I have received communication regarding this issue and am suggesting that any questionable claims be clearly explained on the site.  Notably, it should say that users pay the network fees for their payouts and that the pool keeps the network transaction fees from solved blocks.  Is there anything else I missed?

these are the two points which they do not make very clear. To call it "fee-less" simply because they withhold the transaction fees and the "network" charges a fee is misleading and something they should clarify.

but either way - with them not paying the transaction fees and then having to pay the network fee - even with their 5% bonus for first 30 days,  they end up being one of the lowest paying pools for pps.

and now after looking further - there are other issues which makes their site unclear and not straight forward - for the 5% bonus, they show it as an amount of BTC per TH/s

however, if you look at the payments - it is not a BTC per TH/s bonus but instead the total bonus for that day and is in fact 5% of the daily earnings - so really, they just need to clarify that the bonus they display is not the BTC per TH/s  but total BTC bonus.

That being said, they net out to be of the lowest paying pps pools that I have used, so not worth it in my opinion to mine here.

[kano]

...
Probably explains why the brains of your operation went a different route with his pool.

Unlike you, my sig always tell the truth ... no one pays me to put it there

...
Is there anything else I missed?

The obvious point that you had no issue with being part of a signature campaign that you could EASILY check, but the campaign was lying and you went ahead anyway.
But the even more obvious point for those unable to overcome the challenge of working out how a pool works, multiple people (including Sigmapool) have posted that information here in the past already, so you didn't even bother to check the Sigmapool thread on the forum where the signature campaign was ...

EDIT #2 - I have removed the "no fee" claim from the signature advertising campaign and messaged all participants that they should immediately remove this claim as well while we await updates to be made to the website.

No updates to the web site will make the claim true.
The only way to make the claim true is to charge no fees ... which Sigmapool have stated, from the start, here in this thread, that they do charge fees
... which is what lead to the whole discussion here about the requirements of running a PPS pool.
Feel free to go tell Meni Rosenfeld that he doesn't know what he's talking about also

[Artemis3]

I have removed the "no fee" claim from the signature advertising campaign and messaged all participants that they should immediately remove this claim as well while we await updates to be made to the website.

This is the right thing to do, be clear on the terms so people can trust you. This might be something about the Russian culture to "stretch" words in the name of advertising... Many posts back I suggested this thread should change its title, namely remove the 0% FEE. and perhaps modify the PPS 100% to show the actual number.

Incidentally, this pool has yet to appear in the pinned BTC Mining Pools List thread, i was expecting to see it listed there with the real numbers, but nothing so far.

So can anyone clarify what the real numbers for this pool are?

[mikeywith]

... which is what lead to the whole discussion here about the requirements of running a PPS pool.
Feel free to go tell Meni Rosenfeld that he doesn't know what he's talking about also

The pool going broke or not is not something i would discuss, from miner's point of view specially those looking for PPS the pool is considered to have the lowest fees at the moment, and given the fact it's PPS the moment something goes wrong one can easily switch to another pool.

having said that, i do think it's 100% unethical and deceiving to claim something that's not true, the pool does NOT have 0% fees and that has to be clearly stated, and since block fees are not constant, mentioning that they are keeping the block fees is good enough.

I will give the OP 2 days to fix that or else i will have to tag them for "scamming users by keeping block fees without mentioning it".

tho i do hope they would fix it, as it's only good for everyone's own benefit to have pools competition.

[MoparMiningLLC]

... So can anyone clarify what the real numbers for this pool are?

I have posted the real numbers in several posts - having left 5 miners on their pool for enough time to get 5 payouts.