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Author Topic: Testing a 220VA Wall Socket?  (Read 401 times)
Pepe Lapiu
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February 15, 2019, 10:05:31 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:21:26 PM by frodocooper
 #21

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"

By: Albert Einstein

"I dare do all that may become a man. Who dares more is none"
- Shakespeare
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February 15, 2019, 10:24:06 PM
Merited by frodocooper (2)
 #22

You got your answer: You cannot know without getting access to the breaker panel -- either to read the breaker's label, or to reset it after tripping it.

There is no "meter" that can tell what the breaker is other than by overloading it and tripping it.

You absolutely do not want to use a transformer to convert. The cost of that and the losses would be considerable. It would be less costly to get a 120v capable PSU. ... but then you'll probably have too much current for whatever circuit you put it on. 1.8kw / 120v = 15amps, but if you put a 24/7 1.8kw load on a 15amp breaker you _will_ blow it eventually (and perhaps kill the breaker in the process). You shouldn't be running any sustained load of more than 80% of the breaker's label.  ... and 15amp is all you should assume is supporting a standard 120v outlet in the US.

Personally, I prefer to run computer equipment on 240v in any case-- because 120/240v stuff is pretty much universally several percent more efficient on 240v, plus it avoids load balance issues...

But if you don't have access to the breakers it's probably a bad idea to mine: even if your mining is properly at 80% of the rated load on the breaker, you still may manage to trip it during a brown out.  Then what?

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February 15, 2019, 10:38:10 PM
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #23

"I dare do all that may become a man. Who dares more is none"
- Shakespeare

"Roses are red, you got the answer , now lock the thread"

by: "mikeywith"

adiós

philipma1957
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February 15, 2019, 10:39:54 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:39:14 PM by frodocooper
 #24

hey pepe

I actually sympathize with you and here is why.

I lived in astoria queens new york in an apartment  long ago .

Landlord was a true a-hole.

This was back in there 1986-1992 time frame no Mining,but in 1987 we had a black out

and all of Queens and most of manhattan was without power.

My wife said to me all the food will go bad  lets see what we can do with it.
I opened up the fridge to check and it had power.

I said what the fuck how can this be?

Some how  the wire was tapped into an illegal power source.

I was in the same boat as you  since it was not hooked up to the power panels which I did have access to I knew if I tripped the circuit the free power for the fridge would stop with no way to fix it.

So I checked all my circuits and found the one plug was the only one that was a mystery.  It was not hooked up to any of the 5 apartment circuit breakers.  I had a 110volt circuit which would be 15 amp or 20 amp

fridge was 4 amps.  so I knew I had 11 to 16 amps left.  I searched for a 8 amp AC for free summer cooling and found it.  I ran the ac and the fridge know I was pulling 12 amps and that both the ac and the fridge would shut off some of the time I never tripped the circuit.

So if you  show a photo of the plug  and the stove  can figure what it should be able to do.

No photo of stove and plug no help is possible.

a variation of this https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Lighted-Extension-Watts-Wire/dp/B01FX6JSGC/

would allow you to hook up a miner and the stove to the circuit .

but to be safe you only mine while stove is off.

so say that is ¾ of the time  so the 28 th s15 becomes a 21th  machine

it earns 95 a month  with free power

to me  an s9i  is cheaper  set to 10 th use braiins software it uses 800 watts  

so ¾ of 10 th is 7.5 th which is 34.19 a month with free power.

realistically you can not do more then the one with the stove off.  you don't have access to the  breaker.

Good luck in what you decide to do.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
Pepe Lapiu
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February 15, 2019, 10:59:28 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:38:10 PM by frodocooper
 #25

[...]

Great post, thank you. You didn't even wrote anything condescending or insulting. Are you having problems fitting in here?

Your Amazon link is to a 125V cord with the typical 110V plugs on it. I don't see how that helps.

I am in North America, the building is about 30 years old. Today's usual practices call for 60A breaker for a stove. But not sure what it was 30 years ago.
I will get a picture of the socket tonight and I will post the stove amperage draw specs too.

For other posters, the heat and noise aspects of the miner are being worked on and dealt with. I just would like to find out if I can use both the miner and the stove safely on the same socket. Maybe I can restrict the stove to a single burner....not sure. We don't use the oven very often, spare for the iconic x-mas turkey.

Turning off the miner to use the stove would be a good idea. But I'm not sure the wife would know how to do tgat when I'm not around.

I am saying this because what you are attempting is extremely stupid and potentially dangerous.

I don't think you understand. If I blindly plug whatever into that socket without knowing the rated amperage, yes, that would be stupid and dangerous. Thought I suspect the worst that could happen is that if I go over the breaker capacity, it would just flip the breaker, end of story. I'm not too impressed with those insinuating that I'm going to burn my place down.

If I go into it blind, yes, that could be dangerous. But if I go into it knowing what the socket can handle, in spite of my inability to look at the breaker, than it might be safe.

Unless my place is very unsafely wired, the worst that could happen if I plug too much into a socket that can't handle it, is that I'll just trip the breaker. So please guys. Stop it with perpetually claiming I'm going to burn my place down.

If you don't like me, that's fine. It you don't like my attitude, that's fine too. But maybe if you are harboring so much hatred towards me, maybe you should consider not trying to help me so much anymore.
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February 15, 2019, 11:19:21 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:38:49 PM by frodocooper
 #26

Ok I'm back one more time, sorry

If your apartment is about 30 years old and you are in the US,
are you sure that you don't have aluminium wiring for the circuits?

Pepe Lapiu
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February 15, 2019, 11:25:06 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:41:01 PM by frodocooper
 #27

No photo of stove and plug no help is possible.

Stay tuned. Photo coming tonight. Same Bat-channel!

to me  an s9i  is cheaper  set to 10 th use braiins software it uses 800 watts

Well, in the future, if I can power the S15 safely and quietly, I might consider adding a S9 too. But the S9 would have to run off of 110V. Not sure if that can be done. Right now I'm more concerned with the one S15.

Ok I'm back one more time, sorry...

You need not apologize for any well meaning, thoughtful, and respectful posts.

If your apartment is about 30 years old and you are in the US,
are you sure that you don't have aluminium wiring for the circuits?

I'll check tonight and will let you know. The common way to do this is to stick my tongue in the outlet, right?
[/joking]

I'm only guessing the building is 30 years old. Could be older or newer. I'm known not to be very smart. I've surfed through life so far on my looks alone.
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February 16, 2019, 12:25:08 AM
Last edit: February 16, 2019, 05:05:15 AM by frodocooper
 #28

Ok I'm back one more time, sorry

If your apartment is about 30 years old and you are in the US,
are you sure that you don't have aluminium wiring for the circuits?

I think he is canada not usa.

usa had aluminum in some homes built in the vietnam era  due to copper shortages.

My 1972 home was all aluminum other then the 220 line for the ac.

I rewired it  because New Jersey allows a home owner to wire the house they live it.  Then have the town inspected.

One of the reasons I could mine in my house was I pulled all the aluminum  and did all 10ga 20 amp wiring  for the whole house.
Put in some extra 220 runs to the garage and to my home theater. ( for big subs)

So my house could do lots of miners  with no issues.

@ the op   I said a variation of the power cable in the link  not the cable in the link.

Since I don't know what you have for the stove.   here are a few.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L6-30P-to-2x-L6-20R-Y-Splitter-Cord-10-ft-20A-250V-12-AWG-IBX-IBX-24117/111177612963?hash=item19e2b3bea3:g:wRcAAOSw2s1Ux~St:rk:4:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L6-30P-to-2x-6-20R-Y-Splitter-Cord-10-ft-20A-250V-12-AWG-IBX-IBX-58036202/111177610408?hash=item19e2b3b4a8:g:QFwAAOSwa39Ux~hj:rk:3:pf:0

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 19, 2019, 07:37:14 PM
 #29

I'd rather have people on the Internet who give advice err on the side of caution rather than say "dude you are so smart, go for it". I want to see this magical S15 that you can sleep by. Either you're used to sleeping with a hair dryer running on your nightstand or you've made the equivalent of the 400MPG car...

Anyway, if you're just in it for the fun get an older Avalon and downclock it.

Pepe Lapiu
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February 20, 2019, 10:40:07 PM
 #30

Okay. Here's a pic of my stove wall socket:

http://s346.photobucket.com/user/pepelapiuass/media/20190219_200735_zpsvdmtl5sc.jpg.html?filters[user]=147447958&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

And if that doesn't come throught very well, here's what it looks like:

https://iguardfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Plug-In-cropped.png

The faceplate reads 50A 125v/250v.
I'm not sure the breaker matches this 50A socket.

I believe the S15 is rated at 10A so I think if I assume the breaker to be 50A, that still leaves me with plenty of juice to use the stove. However, just to be safe I will limit the stove use to a single burner at a time and unplug the miner if we are to use the oven. Or maybe just turn the miner to economy mode when using the oven.
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February 21, 2019, 03:34:35 AM
Last edit: February 22, 2019, 09:58:22 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (3)
 #31



Nice pic (awful sharing site). Unfortunately that doesn't reveal us the wires used or the breaker, but at least you know the plug can take 50a. Cheesy

I will bet its the NEMA 14-50.



If you pay attention you will notice the power you need comes from the two most separate straight holes (not all three), and the round one is ground which is always nice. As you can see the flat in the middle is irrelevant, it only provides 110v if you connect it with either of the other two.

I guess you could just split it with one of these:



Parkworld 692095 RV 50 AMP Splitter, NEMA 14-50P Male Plug to (2) 14-50R Female connectors (with Lighted) 1 Plug to 2 Socket Y Adatper

As for the stove, you still don't get it. Its not that you won't have "juice" for it, heck, the stove will be fine (or at worst just trip the breaker). But turning it on and off WILL harm the PSU of your delicate miner, and stoves go on/off a lot when in use.

Well you could always get something like this to connect your Miner and hope it can protect your PSU...



If you buy this (or similar), do not use the included plug adapter (at those loads it melts), and do not plug it into a 110v socket. Either wire an European socket or get an sturdy adapter that can take 20a or more. I know it says it can convert 110v into 220v but you don't want to use it that way to avoid tripping the breakers or burning the place.

Pepe Lapiu
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February 21, 2019, 04:52:49 AM
Last edit: February 22, 2019, 10:01:06 AM by frodocooper
 #32


Which image sharing site do you recommend?

Unfortunately that doesn't reveal us the wires used or the breaker, but at least you know the plug can take 50a. Cheesy

I'm trying to find what kind of wattage the stove pulls. If I can find that, it will get us closet to guessing what the breaker is.

I will bet its the NEMA 14-50.

Yup, you got it.

I guess you could just split it with one of these...

Nah, I think I'm just going to get a hot plate that runs on 110 and dedicate the stove socket only to the miner.

If in the future I decide to get a second miner (S15 or S9 maybe) you think that plug can power two of them?

As for the stove, you still don't get it. Its not that you won't have "juice" for it, heck, the stove will be fine (or at worst just trip the breaker). But turning it on and off WILL harm the PSU of your delicate miner, and stoves go on/off a lot when in use.

So I can't have the stove turned on an off. But it could power two S15 miners drawing about 10A each?

Well you could always get something like this (https://www.amazon.com/Simran-AR-5000-5000-Watt-Stabilizer-Transformer/dp/B00526JQ4S/ref=sr_1_4) to connect your Miner and hope it can protect your PSU...

Nope, it's getting to be on the expensive side now. But if I go with the stove and S15 on the same socket, I'll get the 3000W for under 100$.

Would I need to have both the stove and miner running off of that box? Or can I split the power before the box and only have the miner running on the box?
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February 21, 2019, 05:11:48 AM
 #33

So after all these advices, you are going with guessing.

Well good luck..

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February 21, 2019, 05:38:03 AM
Last edit: February 22, 2019, 10:02:00 AM by frodocooper
 #34

So after all these advices, you are going with guessing.

Well good luck..

What are you talking about?

If I can find out that the stove is rated xxA, it's a pretty safe bet that the breaker would also be xxA or more. And yeah, I would love to not guess and have a look at the breaker panel. But I don't.

I submitted my projections based on the information supplied by you guys on this thread. Do you have a constructive comment to add?

I don't care how smart you think you are. I find your attitude particularly offensive. If you have actual knowledge to share please do so. If you just want to foam at the mouth every time you claim to want to help me, never mind and move on.
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February 21, 2019, 05:52:37 AM
 #35

I have already shared you knowledge.
You're the impolite one here, not listening to us.

Guessing is not a thing to do in electrical engineering!

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February 21, 2019, 05:53:12 AM
Last edit: February 22, 2019, 10:03:20 AM by frodocooper
Merited by Pepe Lapiu (1)
 #36

No, only the miner(s). It's to protect the miner(s) from the stove going on and off. You will see (and hear) the fluctuations made by the stove and other appliances when you use it. Using multiple (one for each miner) could be troublesome as they will generate (electric) noise to each other. I guess you could buy the 8000w one to feed stable electricity to 4 miners.



In theory if your circuit is truly 50a (60a in breaker and wiring is what the spec says) and you are using no stove, then you should be able to safely put 4. It would be nice if you could measure, get an ampere meter clamp to see for yourself, i would not be surprised if the S15 pulls less than 10a, probably 8a or less like the S9s, or even less in low power mode.

There are several image sharing sites, imgur is one of the most popular.

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February 27, 2019, 02:11:53 AM
Last edit: February 27, 2019, 10:26:24 AM by frodocooper
 #37

I want to see this magical S15 that you can sleep by. Either you're used to sleeping with a hair dryer running on your nightstand or you've made the equivalent of the 400MPG car...

It's not rocket science. If your fan has to push through a bunch of restrictions, it's going to make more noise than without restrictions. So removing the exhaust side grills should help a very little bit on the noise side. And it will allow for better air flow, or the same air flow at slower fan speed. Furthermore, a single fan pushing air through a tightly packed case is going to have to turn faster to provide sufficient airflow. Adding a fan pulling air on the exhaust side should allow me to turn them down to around 4000 RPM instead of the stock 6000 RPM.

What I am planning is similar to this:
https://www.silent-miner.eu/

My big 6" Vortex squirrel fan will be pushing air in while the stock fans will be relocated on the exhaust side to pull air out with a fan controller on them. I'll have to test fan speeds to see what works just as well as the stock configuration.

And of course none of this is going to completely silence the rig.  It will still be noisy, albeit less noisy. But next I will do similar to what philipma1957 did. I will build a box with a 1 foot layer of carpet pieces around the miner - a soundproof box of sort. Just try to run a vacuum cleaner rolled up in a pile of carpets and see how quiet it gets.

But in truth, even if I just replace the stock fans with my squirrel fan, that would already push more air and be a great deal more quiet. I had my squirrel fan running all night at full speed right next to my bed last night. Slept like a baby too but I will look to make it even more quiet.
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February 27, 2019, 04:36:42 PM
Last edit: February 28, 2019, 12:36:14 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #38

That's a bad design. make sure you keep some airflow around the miner, not just the hashboards. The controller above is notorious for breaking from overheat due to people sealing the airflow within the fans while ignoring the rest.

Attach your fan to a larger box, and put the miner freely inside that box. The miner inside should not be in contact with the box or duct. And you might as well leave the PSU in there, just like the newer S15 does anyway. Wood is good, and you could cover the walls inside with sound proofing fabric. Using a bit of sound insulated duct at the ends also helps.

I have seen another design where the air is following little Z like maze before going out. But there is an important design change, the holes are larger and of rectangular shape half covered, not round duct like. The maker describes it as a "nozzle" effect, noise cancelling but air flowing.

I'm actually worried your squirrel fan would make the others move, ie, generate electricity... Which is the same reason people should not let a fan spin when dusting off electronics with an air blower (they will generate and send electricity down the wire possibly damaging things).

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February 27, 2019, 08:10:32 PM
Last edit: February 28, 2019, 12:36:34 AM by frodocooper
 #39

... I'm actually worried your squirrel fan would make the others move, ie, generate electricity... Which is the same reason people should not let a fan spin when dusting off electronics with an air blower (they will generate and send electricity down the wire possibly damaging things).

I'm not sure what you mean here. The S15 runs on 220v and the squirrel fans runs on 110v. So they will be on two different circuits.
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February 27, 2019, 08:57:03 PM
Last edit: February 28, 2019, 12:37:00 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #40

I'm not sure what you mean here. The S15 runs on 220v and the squirrel fans runs on 110v. So they will be on two different circuits.

Not that... It depends how strong your fan is. if it moves the others by airflow alone, they generate electricity. A generator is the same thing as an electric motor, more or less. If you pass current, it makes the axis rotate. If you rotate the axis fast enough, it generates current. You don't want current flowing back into your controller board/psu.

Take a tester to measure voltage, plug it to a disconnected fan to the ± pins. Now make that fan move by pointing another fan to it, and see the results.

I never quite understood why asic miners used this tunnel design with two fans pushing/pulling one another, but it seems Bitmain has improved the design, perhaps after the R4 experience.

If both fans are moving about the same amount of air, there shouldn't be a problem. But i don't know how powerful your squirrel fan is. I think it would be ideal to just remove the small fans, as you originally intended. Problem is you need feed back rpms to the controller so it doesn't complain, at least until Braiins OS is ported to the S15.

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