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Author Topic: Testing a 220VA Wall Socket?  (Read 396 times)
Pepe Lapiu
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February 14, 2019, 03:18:26 AM
 #1

Hey. I have a 220VA wall socket for my stove. But I don't get access to the breaker box. How can I verify the amperase of that plug?
I want to make sure I can run both the stove and an Antminer on it. So I need to know what kind of wattage I can get out of it. Are there some sort of tester or meter I can plug in?
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February 14, 2019, 03:34:09 AM
Last edit: February 14, 2019, 10:30:37 PM by frodocooper
 #2

Not going to lie this just sounds like a bad plan.

There is really no way to find out your breaker size, without testing it for a trip. This is not ideal as it's a safety not a toy.

So unless you know for sure that everything was installed strictly to code, and you know the local electrical standards, there is no way to be certain. Not likely but they could put a 15 amp breaker there or a 100 amp breaker, one would trip all the time being undersized and the other wouldn't provide any protection.

Perhaps you could explain your situation and what's available and we could toss you some ideas.

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February 14, 2019, 05:11:57 AM
 #3

First, learn the basics. It's 220 Volts, not volt amperes.

Second, get the access to the breaker box.

Third, keep measuring the voltage and turn off one MCB at the time to figure out which MCB is feeding your stove electric socket. When you successfully cut off the electricity, you'll know which MCB it is.

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February 14, 2019, 07:01:47 AM
Last edit: February 14, 2019, 10:33:06 PM by frodocooper
 #4

First, learn the basics. It's 220 Volts, not volt amperes.

LOL. The A in 220 VA refers to alternative, not amps. And here normal wall plugs are referred to as 110 VA....or sometimes just 110 V.

Second, get the access to the breaker box.

That's not an option.

... Perhaps you could explain your situation and what's available and we could toss you some ideas.

I live in an apartment. With no access to the breaker box. So if I want to mine with an Antminer S15, I have two options:

1) Buy a step- up converter to get 220 V out of the regular 110 V wall socket. Not a great idea as this would cost more what with the cost of the converter. And it's probably going to cost more in power too.

2) Share the stove's 220 V socket between the miner and the stove. I have to make sure the stove can still run if I want to keep the wife for one more week. I could also get a 110 V hot plate and let the 220 V socket supply only the miner. But if I can have both the full use of the stove and the miner running, I might keep the wife around for an other two weeks.
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February 14, 2019, 12:18:58 PM
Last edit: February 14, 2019, 10:35:03 PM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (3)
 #5

I live in an apartment. With no access to the breaker box. So if I want to mine with an Antminer S15, I have two options:

1) Buy a step- up converter to get 220 V out of the regular 110 V wall socket. Not a great idea as this would cost more what with the cost of the converter. And it's probably going to cost more in power too.

2) Share the stove's 220 V socket between the miner and the stove. I have to make sure the stove can still run if I want to keep the wife for one more week. I could also get a 110 V hot plate and let the 220 V socket supply only the miner. But if I can have both the full use of the stove and the miner running, I might keep the wife around for an other two weeks.

You are wrong on both. Either forget the stove, or forget the mining. Also you might find the same type of socket for clothes dryer or air conditioner. A step up transformer is big no, if the miner needs 8a with 220v the transformer would need at least 18a (or more), i think 110v circuits are usually capped at 15a (tho there are exceptions) but you would need to inspect if your house wiring and breakers can handle that load (and the transformer won't be cheap either). Remember, if you have a 20a circuit, the max that can handle is 16a constant load (80% rule), so no.

Do you know of the importance and delicacy of running an asic miner? Imagine you buy a 220v air conditioner, how do you plug it? You cannot share the "stove" circuit, you need a separate circuit from the breaker box.

So you say you have "no access" to the breaker box, what do you do if you make a short circuit? The breaker box must exist somewhere.
If you can use a gas stove instead, that would release the stove socket. Buy that if you still want to run an asic miner. You are worried about your wife? Wait until she hears the noise...

Technically its not impossible to "share" the circuit, but everytime you turn on and off the stove you are likely going to damage the PSU on the miner, so don't. Perhaps take apart the socket and put a small sub breaker in there. It could be useful if that circuit is, say, 50a rated and your stove only needs 20a or so.

What country is this anyway?

A better solution is you install your own sub-breaker panel from the main panel and redo your circuits "locally" (inside the apartment), exactly what you don't want to do, you must. It is weird that whoever built that apartment, didn't do it that way.

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February 14, 2019, 01:39:38 PM
Last edit: February 14, 2019, 10:35:44 PM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #6

LOL. The A in 220 VA refers to alternative, not amps. And here normal wall plugs are referred to as 110 VA....or sometimes just 110 V.

Nope. VA stands for volt-amperes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt-ampere

If you want to be specific and define that it is AC voltage, correct way to mark it is 220 VAC.

Also,
you are being annoyed for no reason.
I'm trying to help you here ...

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February 14, 2019, 03:14:25 PM
Last edit: February 14, 2019, 10:36:57 PM by frodocooper
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 #7

Haggs is correct on all accounts. You may have noticed under his Avatar the words "Electrical Engineer". People enjoy helping here, so try not to gt annoyed or lose your patience as we become less likely to continue engaging.

I live in an apartment. With no access to the breaker box. So if I want to mine with an Antminer S15, I have two options:

You forgot the very reasonable 3rd option. Buy a Miner without an integrated PSU. You have to buy gear appropriate for your situation, in this case I would suggest buying something like an S9, or an Avalon 841. I know the Avalon has settings to improve efficiency and pull less power, and I believe there is firmware for the S9 to achieve the same results. In any case I'm going to assume your electricity costs are part of rent, and that efficiency isn't your concern.

If you go that route you can use any PSU that runs on 110V, utilizing the other available circuits in the apartment. Getting to the apartment a little more, most of the ones I lived in prior had a sub panel tucked in the closet or a kitchen cabinet. Are you sure there isn't a little 60 or 100 amp panel hiding somewhere? IS it a problem to ask your landlord to figure out what you have for circuits in the home? I mean how many 110 and what size (as some home circuits do have 20 amp breakers on 110).

Technically its not impossible to "share" the circuit, but everytime you turn on and off the stove you are likely going to damage the PSU on the miner, so don't. Perhaps take apart the socket and put a small sub breaker in there. It could be useful if that circuit is, say, 50a rated and your stove only needs 20a or so.

I'm going to advise against this. Just placing a breaker inline hidden/jammed in the socket is just a wiring mishap waiting to go wrong.

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February 14, 2019, 06:25:43 PM
 #8

The answer is, these LOUD INDUSTRIAL MINERS are not meant to be run in a home let alone an apartment.

This is just a terrible idea all the way around
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February 14, 2019, 08:05:39 PM
Last edit: February 14, 2019, 10:37:36 PM by frodocooper
 #9

LOL. The A in 220 VA refers to alternative, not amps. And here normal wall plugs are referred to as 110 VA....or sometimes just 110 V.

it's alternating not alternative.

it's wrong to say the least , VA = watts  "excluding power factor"

you can argue that it stands for alternative but then again there is no point of stating the obvious, my grandmother would have figured that you are not getting 220v on DC to run your stove.

anyway, answer to your question is, there is no way to know. you can simply run them both, if the MCB trips you will know it can't handle both, call whoever has access to it and they will get it back up and running after you have unplugged the miner of course.

the other concern to me would be the wire size from the plug to the MCB, not sure it will be able to handle that much current. it could get hot and trip the breaker or might just burn the house down, so be careful.

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February 14, 2019, 08:19:31 PM
 #10

How about a photo of the receptacle?

And how about mining while you sleep?

Thus the stove is turned off.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 14, 2019, 08:22:27 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:12:18 PM by frodocooper
 #11

The answer is, these LOUD INDUSTRIAL MINERS are not meant to be run in a home let alone an apartment.

I spend a lot of years and money in the past water cooling custom built computers to make them run silently and over clocked to the max. My last project was a 1500W rig with water cooled CPU, motherboard, and 3x graphic cards in SLI configuration, all over clocked to the tits and as noisy as a mouse farther.

I think I can get the S15 to run really quiet in my bedroom next to my bed. See my other thread about this.
I think I might even be able over clock the S15 a little bit and still get it to run silent. The one hurdle to over clocking is not the noise, but the power available.

How about a photo of the receptacle?

I'll do that when I get home tonight.

And how about mining while you sleep?

That's not a bit worry. I never heard or seen an S15. But I have heard and seen a S9. And if they are equally loud, I think I can silence the S15. Noise is not the problem, power is.

Thus the stove is turned off.

At this point I might decide to get a hot plate and dedicate the socket to the miner.
I was talking to an electrical at work today who said the code here is 60 A for a stove, or 2x30 A. Not sure if that's what I have or not.



There's got to be a way I can find out how much juice I can get out of a socket without access to the breaker panel, no?

I appreciate how you guys tell me it's going to be too loud. And how I can install a sub panel and fuses.
But none of this is helpful if I can't get enough amps out of that socket.

Any way to figure out how much amperage I got without looking at the panel?
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February 15, 2019, 06:29:46 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:13:46 PM by frodocooper
Merited by HagssFIN (1), Steamtyme (1), frodocooper (1)
 #12

... Any way to figure out how much amperage I got without looking at the panel?

As said earlier, NO!

The best you could do is look at the socket for the oven and based on what type it is, make a GUESS based on the sockets max current rating.
Only possible way to test the capacity is if you can provide a variable heavy load and monitor it while increasing the load until the breaker trips. Of course after that you will need to reset the breaker so...

You need to get access to the breaker panel and look. Period.

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February 15, 2019, 06:54:40 PM
 #13

There's got to be a way I can find out how much juice I can get out of a socket without access to.the breaker panel, no?

No not really. Your only option would be to put increasingly large loads on it until you pop the breaker, then you will have a basic idea.

Is spending a bunch of money sound proofing a machine and giving up your stove to make like $100 in a year really worth it?

I just dont follow the logic behind this at all. One miner stands no chance of making you more than some pocket change over the course of the year when you calculate paying it back and the cost of all the other stuff you have to do to quiet it. My brain hurts trying to imagine a scenario where this makes any sense at all....
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February 15, 2019, 07:51:01 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:14:59 PM by frodocooper
 #14

... Is spending a bunch of money sound proofing a machine and giving up your stove to make like $100 in a year really worth it?

I just dont follow the logic behind this at all...

I'm guessing you got involved in Bitcoin and other cryptos around 2017?

So you only see bitcoin as a money making machine. And you can't imagine why anyone would mine at a lost. But in fact I was an early miner back in 2009 when Bitcoin was less than a penny and you could mine it on a desktop. Hardly nobody back then was making much money with mining. There is far more to mining Bitcoin than pure profit. But as a late adopter, I'm guessing that would be too difficult to explain it all to you.

Even if I was doing it at a lost, I'd still want to mine. And I think Bitcoin will eventually climb much higher. So I hang on for the long run.
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February 15, 2019, 08:03:20 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:16:03 PM by frodocooper
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 #15

... Even if I was doing it at a lost, I'd still want to mine. And I think Bitcoin will eventually climb much higher. So I hang on for the long run.

All fine and dandy however you are still faced with the fact that you want to run a very loud, hot, and power hungry industrial machine in an apartment where you have no access to a very vital bit of information information - namely, how much power is available to you. Sorry Life is not cooperating but you MUST have at least that very basic information before saying 'I want to mine'. The other 2 bits (loud and hot) can be dealt with but you MUST know what power is available to you. I'd like to fly and spit diamonds but guess what -- don't see that happening either...

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
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February 15, 2019, 08:05:48 PM
 #16

@NotFuzzy

Totally agreed, and as I've suggested OP already.

This is turning into a totally pointless and stupid discussion with the stubborn OP..

Peace, I'm out

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February 15, 2019, 08:15:53 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:16:35 PM by frodocooper
 #17

All fine and dandy however you are still faced with the fact that you want to run a very loud, hot. and power hungry industrial machine in an apartment where you have no access to a very vital bit of information information - namely, how much power is available to you. Sorry Life is not cooperating but you MUST have at least that very basic information before saying 'I want to mine'. I'd like to fly and spit diamonds but guess what -- don't see that happening either...

Thank you. Your thoughtful, respectful, and informative post will be evaluated and taken into consideration.
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February 15, 2019, 08:56:15 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:17:16 PM by frodocooper
 #18

There is far more to mining Bitcoin than pure profit.

I call B.S on that, sorry not sorry Shocked

But as a late adopter, I'm guessing that would be too difficult to explain it all to you.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"

By: Albert Einstein

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February 15, 2019, 09:35:02 PM
Merited by NotFuzzyWarm (2), HagssFIN (2), frodocooper (1)
 #19

I'm guessing you got involved in Bitcoin and other cryptos around 2017?
So you only see bitcoin as a money making machine. And you can't imagine why anyone would mine at a lost. But in fact I was an early miner back in 2009 when Bitcoin was less than a penny and you could mine it on a desktop. Hardly nobody back then was making much money with mining. There is far more to mining Bitcoin than pure profit. But as a late adopter, I'm guessing that would be too difficult to explain it all to you.

Even if I was doing it at a lost, I'd still want to mine. And I think Bitcoin will eventually climb much higher. So I hang on for the long run.

You are so far off base its laughable when it comes to me. I have been doing this as a career for years and I run one of the largest mines in North America, and would venture to say I have more mining experience than any 50 people you would like to gather combined. You picked the wrong person to try an call out, I will clown on you until you give up if that is how you want to play it.

I am saying this because what you are attempting is extremely stupid and potentially dangerous. You came here for advice, we give you advice you dont like, so you argue and attack the people that are trying to save you from your own ignorance.

I was an early miner too, that does not make you better than anyone. As a matter of fact, most early miners I know are intelligent enough to understand what we are trying to tell you. If you just want a miner so you can feel like "part of the club" go get a USB stick miner from sidehack. You can run it on a computer, which will help you feel more comfortable since that is where you are so proud of starting from. Plus it has the bonus of reducing the chance of you burning your place down to basically nothing.

Or if your confidence in the coin is that strong, buy the amount of bitcoin it would cost you to buy the miner, then buy the $100 in coin the first month, $90 in the second, $80 in the third. That way you are mirroring the profitability of the miner without any of the hassle. Then there are no noise issues, no safety issues, and you can stop making a fool of yourself on the internet.

You are quite welcome for the ideas, good luck with them.
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February 15, 2019, 09:47:01 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2019, 11:20:31 PM by frodocooper
Merited by HagssFIN (2), frodocooper (2)
 #20

As said earlier, NO!

The best you could do is look at the socket for the oven and based on what type it is, make a GUESS based on the sockets max current rating.
Only possible way to test the capacity is if you can provide a variable heavy load and monitor it while increasing the load until the breaker trips. Of course after that you will need to reset the breaker so...

You need to get access to the breaker panel and look. Period.

I think he should also look at the wire gauge and read the code printed on it if possible. Even if the breaker is high rated the wire might not be, and that is not rare in certain countries... (Yes, it should be the opposite, a wire stronger than what the breaker is rated for, but the "3rd world" can be like that).

For that very reason, I wouldn't blindly trust a socket that says "50A" (look at the wires). Yes, in nice countries the electricians are supposed to respect the rules...

I'm guessing you got involved in Bitcoin and other cryptos around 2017?
So you only see bitcoin as a money making machine. And you can't imagine why anyone would mine at a lost. But in fact I was an early miner back in 2009 when Bitcoin was less than a penny and you could mine it on a desktop. Hardly nobody back then was making much money with mining. There is far more to mining Bitcoin than pure profit. But as a late adopter, I'm guessing that would be too difficult to explain it all to you.

Even if I was doing it at a lost, I'd still want to mine. And I think Bitcoin will eventually climb much higher. So I hang on for the long run.

The simple reason people won't mine at a loss: The money you would spend buying the miner and the electrical works and silencing, take it all to buy bitcoin now and you end with more bitcoin now than trying to mine the same amount for months or years. That is unless you are betting the price will go up later, but it is possible the miner becomes damaged before that.

Suppose your S15 and the rest the stuff costs you $1500, you could get 0.4215₿ now, or wait 383 days mining it, assuming nothing breaks in the meantime. But what about the electricity? you have to add the costs of the electricity during those 383 days, and you would have rather gotten even more bitcoin today by simply buying it. How many days would you need to mine to get that many bitcoins? Its more days, so more electricity, so more money you need to sum, this goes to infinite.

Its logical to stop the mining if it is unprofitable, or make it profitable (ie. with solar panels). If i knew what is the electricity price per kw/h or what country it is (so i can find the price by myself) i could be a little more specific.

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