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Author Topic: How long until governments outlaw bitcoin usage?  (Read 14621 times)
fetokun
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March 30, 2011, 11:39:28 AM
 #41


But do you think that bitcoin would be able to keep its value if outlawed and persecuted?

I mean if every site would have to hide behind Tor or something in order to accept donations or payments in bitcoins it would become almost impossible for the non-geek public.
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March 30, 2011, 11:57:32 AM
 #42

It's impossible to answer such question.

It depends on which stage it gets outlawed, among many other things. If outlawed now, for example, I think it would bring much more awareness than damage, and maybe it would even raise the value of bitcoins.

And by the way, I don't think it'll be outlawed in every country of the world. As said in another thread, if a few countries allow its use and the technology really manages to do good to these countries' economies, that would push for abolishing prohibition elsewhere.

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March 30, 2011, 02:21:10 PM
 #43


But do you think that bitcoin would be able to keep its value if outlawed and persecuted?


The threat of prosecution will certainly dampen the value, as well as the rate of spread, of Bitcoin; but will ultimately fail to destroy it.  Politicos aren't stupid, they look at these kind of things deeply before acting.  If they attempt it, they would have to know that it's a stall tactic.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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March 30, 2011, 03:26:41 PM
 #44

The threat of prosecution will certainly dampen the value, as well as the rate of spread, of Bitcoin; but will ultimately fail to destroy it.  Politicos aren't stupid, they look at these kind of things deeply before acting.  If they attempt it, they would have to know that it's a stall tactic.

http://www.bitterwallet.com/what-does-the-ip-in-ip-address-stand-for-ask-stephen-timms/27968

They know nothing about what they imagine they can control.
fetokun
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March 30, 2011, 03:32:08 PM
 #45

The threat of prosecution will certainly dampen the value, as well as the rate of spread, of Bitcoin; but will ultimately fail to destroy it.  Politicos aren't stupid, they look at these kind of things deeply before acting.  If they attempt it, they would have to know that it's a stall tactic.

http://www.bitterwallet.com/what-does-the-ip-in-ip-address-stand-for-ask-stephen-timms/27968

They know nothing about what they imagine they can control.

I don't know if this makes me feel more safe or more scared!
mewantsbitcoins
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March 30, 2011, 05:03:21 PM
 #46

If most BitCoin usage is legal I think it'll be OK in the long run. This is why I wish we'd kick the people selling serial keys and the Silk Road guys out of the forum. Of course they can still do what they're doing, but there's no need to advertise them in the main forum.

I'm reluctantly in favor of this sentiment.  The last thing we need is a DNS-mediated shutdown of the Bitcoin site.  We also need mirrors.

If p2p dns project takes off, it may not be a problem in the future.

Regarding "illegal stuff", I too, have to reluctanly be in favor of moving these activities out of sight for the general public.

sortedmush, I completely agree with what you say, but you are forgetting who you are dealing with. Take a look around you - majority of people are irrational, they can not be reasoned with. The talking box in their homes told them that some things are "bad" and "illegal" and so they accept it as universal truth without thinking about it. If they come here and see these things they will turn around and walk away.
I am not saying these topics should be banned or anything like that, but maybe a wise thing to do would be to talk about these matters in some obscure coner of this forum, or maybe do not put the thread back at the top of the list after answers are submitted. This way newcomers won't be scared away and people with interest can still find what they are looking for and debate.
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March 30, 2011, 05:39:58 PM
 #47

Take a look around you - majority of people are irrational, they can not be reasoned with.

Quite an arrogant statement. Have you actually talked to another human in person? Have you tried explaining yourself or your ideas in layman's terms so they can relate to you? Most people are very intelligent if you figure out how to talk to them in their own language. Declaring that they can not be reasoned with is your ignorance and shows you to be lazy intellectually. It will cause you stress in your life. You will not understand why other people do what they do. You will shroud yourself in your paranoia about their intentions, further running away from your perceived problem. People will just look at you like you are hiding something and therefore infer that you must have bad intentions. People fear secrets.
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March 30, 2011, 05:50:00 PM
 #48

Take a look around you - majority of people are irrational, they can not be reasoned with.

Quite an arrogant statement. Have you actually talked to another human in person? Have you tried explaining yourself or your ideas in layman's terms so they can relate to you? Most people are very intelligent if you figure out how to talk to them in their own language. Declaring that they can not be reasoned with is your ignorance and shows you to be lazy intellectually. It will cause you stress in your life. You will not understand why other people do what they do. You will shroud yourself in your paranoia about their intentions, further running away from your perceived problem. People will just look at you like you are hiding something and therefore infer that you must have bad intentions. People fear secrets.

Case in point, the mass hysteria about the Fukushima nuclear power plant.

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fetokun
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March 30, 2011, 05:52:45 PM
 #49

Take a look around you - majority of people are irrational, they can not be reasoned with.

Quite an arrogant statement. Have you actually talked to another human in person? Have you tried explaining yourself or your ideas in layman's terms so they can relate to you? Most people are very intelligent if you figure out how to talk to them in their own language. Declaring that they can not be reasoned with is your ignorance and shows you to be lazy intellectually. It will cause you stress in your life. You will not understand why other people do what they do. You will shroud yourself in your paranoia about their intentions, further running away from your perceived problem. People will just look at you like you are hiding something and therefore infer that you must have bad intentions. People fear secrets.

Dude, I agree so much with what you just said! 0.2BTC for that!
mewantsbitcoins
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March 30, 2011, 05:53:38 PM
 #50

Yes abstraction, everything you said about me is correct, but I do not see how this is relevant to the topic we are discussing.

If you absolutely have to do psychoanalysis and evaluation of me, you are very welcome to pm me
MoonShadow
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March 30, 2011, 07:45:50 PM
 #51

Take a look around you - majority of people are irrational, they can not be reasoned with.

Quite an arrogant statement. Have you actually talked to another human in person? Have you tried explaining yourself or your ideas in layman's terms so they can relate to you? Most people are very intelligent if you figure out how to talk to them in their own language. Declaring that they can not be reasoned with is your ignorance and shows you to be lazy intellectually. It will cause you stress in your life. You will not understand why other people do what they do. You will shroud yourself in your paranoia about their intentions, further running away from your perceived problem. People will just look at you like you are hiding something and therefore infer that you must have bad intentions. People fear secrets.

Case in point, the mass hysteria about the Fukushima nuclear power plant.

Not a good example, since the mass hysteria around Fukushima was fueled by piss-poor journalism and a government that has a history of not being quite forward with it's own failures.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Jered Kenna (TradeHill)
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March 30, 2011, 09:33:56 PM
 #52




Not a good example, since the mass hysteria around Fukushima was fueled by piss-poor journalism and a government that has a history of not being quite forward with it's own failures.

Holy shit that's not America.

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abstraction
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March 31, 2011, 12:59:10 AM
 #53

Yes abstraction, everything you said about me is correct, but I do not see how this is relevant to the topic we are discussing.

If you absolutely have to do psychoanalysis and evaluation of me, you are very welcome to pm me

I don't mean this to be about you personally, but about that mentality I see a lot around here. I'm sorry I made you an example.

My point is:
Governments are nothing more than a collection of individuals concerned with looking out for what they perceive as the greater good. They mean well, but they are (political) scientists employing a false science. As a result, they tend to be quite paranoid about new things they don't understand and since their scientific system is flawed, they can't even envision things being any other way. If we reach out to the actual people in governments and explain (in terms they can understand) how bitcoin can help solve a lot of problems AND let them save face, governments will not outlaw bitcoin because they will understand its power and they understand power very well. You might say it takes a bit of bravery to not think of the world in terms of "us vs them", but just "us".

Start by getting to know the people in your local community and figuring out ways to solve their problems in general. You will develop a good name for yourself and people will give you the benefit of the doubt when you present new ideas (like bitcoin).

Dude, I agree so much with what you just said! 0.2BTC for that!
I rewarded you for your generosity. Thank you.
MoonShadow
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March 31, 2011, 01:55:55 AM
 #54

My point is:
Governments are nothing more than a collection of individuals concerned with looking out for what they perceive as the greater good. They mean well, but they are (political) scientists employing a false science

They most certainly do not all mean well.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
CryptikEnigma
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March 31, 2011, 02:15:02 AM
 #55

My point is:
Governments are nothing more than a collection of individuals concerned with looking out for what they perceive as the greater good. They mean well, but they are (political) scientists employing a false science

They most certainly do not all mean well.

Strongly agree with creighto.
mewantsbitcoins
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March 31, 2011, 02:41:35 AM
 #56

Quote
Governments are nothing more than a collection of individuals concerned with looking out for what they perceive as the greater good

Grin

Your point is invalid.
As any other group of individuals(or any living beings for that matter), they are looking out just for themselves. That is why as long as we have a centralized system which is in control of one group, other group will suffer.
Also, have you ever considered that if someone constantly has to "explain" what to do, maybe the one who is explaining should be doing the job?
"Outlaw Bitcoin"? Well, maybe.. But idea is alive and I don't think it can be stopped. I am glad this is happening now and there is enough talent around the globe to pull this off. 10-20 more years of the crap they call education these days and we'd be doomed as a race.

As to your advice, I don't want to know people in my local community at least not what has become of communities. Majority of them are nothing but ignorant oxygen wasters and the quicker we stop pretending that everyone is equal, the quicker things start getting better. Everybody should get the same opportunity at succeeding, but that's a whole different discussion.

We are here for different reasons and have different visions where Bitcoin could take us, so my advice is to keep your emotional outbursts to yourself - they aren't helpful. We have one common goal - we want Bitcoin to succeed, so lets help each other out where we can and keep out of each other’s way where we can't.
Bitcoin has it's good and bad sides, but it is not for you nor me, nor polititians to decide what is good and what is bad. It is for people to decide.

Have a nice evening
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March 31, 2011, 04:25:31 AM
 #57

If you like jumping in front of a parade you too can be a politician.
Anonymous
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March 31, 2011, 05:02:41 AM
 #58

An interesting thought experiment. Put up a standing bounty for dirt on politicians. Be it sexual ,drugs or other peccadillo's. Eventually the dirt file would mean any move against bitcoin would result in mutually assured destruction.

If you have dirt on the majority of politicos in a given area suddenly you have leverage. All they care about is their public image and will go to any lengths to protect it. Thats why cops make the best drug dealers imo.


MoonShadow
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March 31, 2011, 05:07:51 AM
 #59

An interesting thought experiment. Put up a standing bounty for dirt on politicians. Be it sexual ,drugs or other peccadillo's. Eventually the dirt file would mean any move against bitcoin would result in mutually assured destruction.

If you have dirt on the majority of politicos in a given area suddenly you have leverage. All they care about is their public image and will go to any lengths to protect it. Thats why cops make the best drug dealers imo.




Now that's an idea.  Like a crowdsourced version of insurance.256

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Anonymous
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March 31, 2011, 05:47:26 AM
 #60

An interesting thought experiment. Put up a standing bounty for dirt on politicians. Be it sexual ,drugs or other peccadillo's. Eventually the dirt file would mean any move against bitcoin would result in mutually assured destruction.

If you have dirt on the majority of politicos in a given area suddenly you have leverage. All they care about is their public image and will go to any lengths to protect it. Thats why cops make the best drug dealers imo.




Now that's an idea.  Like a crowdsourced version of insurance.256

Yes. When do we start it ?

bitcoinleaks     Smiley
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