Bitcoin Forum
November 18, 2019, 03:24:12 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.18.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitmain Release new 7NM Chip and Antminer S17 & T17  (Read 1087 times)
mikeywith
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 588
Merit: 1490


be constructive or S.T.F.U


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 01:58:41 AM
 #21

The idea of ordering in two months and getting it in four months has me thinking I can not upgrade to m10s.

But the freaking trump tax is a mofo.

I am not in the U.S so tax is not a problem at all, however i was planning to grab some S9s but after seeing this i really need to do more calculations, once these s17 hit the market, price for everything else will likely drop, i will probably be able to get used S9 for like 100$ instead of 140-160$ from China if not less.

but again the price for the S17 will be key , also should the bull run kick in a bit early "unlikely" every miner on plant will rise in price, so it's really a though decision that requires a good sleep and a cup of coffee.

1574047452
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574047452

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574047452
Reply with quote  #2

1574047452
Report to moderator
The Bitcoin Forum is turning 10 years old! Join the community in sharing and exploring the notable posts made over the years.
1574047452
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1574047452

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1574047452
Reply with quote  #2

1574047452
Report to moderator
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1972



View Profile
February 19, 2019, 04:53:57 AM
Last edit: February 19, 2019, 06:32:21 AM by frodocooper
 #22

I am not in the U.S so tax is not a problem at all, however i was planning to grab some S9s but after seeing this i really need to do more calculations, once these s17 hit the market, price for everything else will likely drop, i will probably be able to get used S9 for like 100$ instead of 140-160$ from China if not less.

but again the price for the S17 will be key , also should the bull run kick in a bit early "unlikely" every miner on plant will rise in price, so it's really a though decision that requires a good sleep and a cup of coffee.

my s15 has worked well so I am not sure what I am going to do now.

more s9's are out

m10's are now in a maybe stage.

Well if we do more build outs I will order something. Right now I think I need to push pause for a little bit.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
minefarmbuy
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 602
Merit: 149


We are not retail.


View Profile WWW
February 19, 2019, 02:23:50 PM
 #23

With any luck Trump will see the tariffs are negligent and just noise. I believe we still have another month left of them trying to find an agreement. Typically we've been coaching on planning for the tariff through the year as most farms we work with only need a few units a month for pace sake. Some mix in de minimis units others don't. Essentially with planning if the tariffs cease you're hardware budget increases by almost a 1/3 but still not sure when that will happen as a wall is more priority and economy right now.. . .

If the "S17" is coming in a few months hopefully puts the s15 under de minimis otherwise your still looking at the same units essentially. I don't see a $221 drop in the s15 happening to soon and will be very surprised if the new units drop before Q3. Very happy to be wrong though.

Premier asic sourcing minefarmbuy.com #mineon
Twitter:@minefarmbuy -LN Tips-
Email: info@minefarmbuy.com PGP:1A1C A4D4 CE04 F57E 1C0C 5240 592A 09BF CCB4 F0C3
Steamtyme
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 826
Merit: 1463


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT5HPhO - Newb Vid


View Profile WWW
February 19, 2019, 02:42:40 PM
 #24

Well I'm not sure how the de minus is calculated, when coupons are involved. Bitmain did just dump a lot of coupons into accounts, up to 395 for a S15 and 300 for the T15.

Definitely changes things a bit, and makes me think these units may be closer than we think.

sidehack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2240
Merit: 1505

Curmudgeonly hardware guy


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 03:44:09 PM
Merited by frodocooper (2), philipma1957 (1)
 #25

The biggest issue with Trump tariffs is I'm not sure Trump has figured out that China's not paying the tax, Americans are. He's proven over the years to be pretty good at skirting paying taxes so he probably has a poor understanding of how they work.

If the miner has a built-in PSU with hard-wired connections, it could mean there's no string regulator per board. Depending how rails are handled in the PSU, that could mean less ability to fine-tune to each board's maximum efficiency but it would still increase the efficiency of the overall machine by 5-10%.

When figuring the efficiency of a miner based off the chips' operating point, you gotta add about 10% to the string regulator, about 60W for fans and controller, and then another about 10% in the power supply. That'll get you close at least. If there's no string regulator it cuts your conversion losses about in half. Sucks if something breaks, and that PSU will be useless for anything else ever, but hey it gets you a few extra watts in the meantime.

Bitmain could have done a more efficient string regulator from the start, considering they've been pushing at least 45A per board for a while now, if they'd switched to a dual-phase design (could have knocked that 10% down to around 6%) but that would have cost just a little more and taken more board space, and since they're all about density at the expense of everything else (especially reliability), and since increasing the parts cost shaves another 1-2% off the profit margin, I guess they figured it was a bad idea. But by replacing a generic PSU hookup with a model-specific PSU they get to boost efficiency, save on parts cost, maintain density and sell you two things at once.

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
Currently in development - 200+GH USB stick; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1972



View Profile
February 19, 2019, 04:01:22 PM
 #26

Sidehack I was not going to buy another s11 or s15 or t15.

I got 18 x 340 coupons
I got 18 x 250 coupons
I got 18 x 190 coupons

I will get a s11 and a t15.  For testing.

If my one s15 psu dies I can use the psu from the s11

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
NotFuzzyWarm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988
Merit: 1361


Evil beware: We have waffles!


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 04:01:46 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2019, 12:16:37 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (1)
 #27

Well I'm not sure how the de minus is calculated, when coupons are involved. Bitmain did just dump a lot of coupons into accounts, up to 395 for a S15 and 300 for the T15.

Definitely changes things a bit, and makes me think these units may be closer than we think.

De minimis is based on the Invoice value. Since coupons are directly reflected in the final total value on the invoices they can easily put you under de minimis but -- remember that you MUST be under the $800 mark PER-DAY - NOT just per-order! IF you have 2 or more orders from the same company that are cleared by US customs on the same day and they total over $800 you will be screwed.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1972



View Profile
February 19, 2019, 04:20:07 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2019, 12:17:15 AM by frodocooper
 #28

De minimis is based on the Invoice value. Since coupons are directly reflected in the final total value on the invoices they can easily put you under de minimis but -- remember that you MUST be under the $800 mark PER-DAY - NOT just per-order! IF you have 2 or more orders from the same company that are cleared by US customs on the same day and they total over $800 you will be screwed.

this is why I ordered all my m10's 1 at a time and waited until it was in my house for the next order.

As for s15 becoming a de minimis  using a 340 coupon I don't know if that will be true.

seems like it  1020 - 340 = 680 plus shipping

I simply do not know how bitmain will write up the invoice.

using a 340 coupon the t15 is  710-340 = 370 plus shipping

using a 240 coupon the s11 is 512-240 = 270 plus shipping

since all psu's are the same looks like buying a s11 for 270 could be a smart move.

my coupons are good in 7 days I will be buying some gear from them.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
digital$
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 226
Merit: 11


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 05:49:34 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2019, 12:17:54 AM by frodocooper
 #29

ill be doing the same ie. buying gear also.  for me the coupon is restricted to a $195 for S11 units.  T15 eligible for $300 and S15 $395
minefarmbuy
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 602
Merit: 149


We are not retail.


View Profile WWW
February 19, 2019, 05:59:19 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2019, 12:19:14 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (3)
 #30

De minimis is based on the Invoice value. Since coupons are directly reflected in the final total value on the invoices they can easily put you under de minimis but -- remember that you MUST be under the $800 mark PER-DAY - NOT just per-order! IF you have 2 or more orders from the same company that are cleared by US customs on the same day and they total over $800 you will be screwed.

Duties are determined by unit cost when regarding the coding used by CBP and should be taken from the unit line of invoicing.

De minimis value is in relation to the maximum value of merchandise in one shipment per person per day.

Neither of these take in account discount or in this case coupons and would essentially be left to be determined by CBP or freight company for most (who don't file their own customs filings). Neither of which I would recommend to leave outside of our own/your control. Even getting three s9j's has been problematic as most have been delivered by each and through interpretation is multiple shipments, thankfully we try and run with the freight company we have the best the relationship with as often as we can.

Still though make it rain with coupons, Bitmain wants to liquidate and lead market. I would just do sale pricing for a month and a half call it good. Coupons good till end of Q1 tell me my earlier estimate of Q4 is way off. Bitmain is going to want their market share back and it will be up to other manufacturers to compete.

The psu though has been problematic, hopefully they figure that out and we can stop spamming new customers with a product alert to run 220v. A a home miner with 240v myself and limited resources I'll be looking at units I won't have to step my power down for.

Premier asic sourcing minefarmbuy.com #mineon
Twitter:@minefarmbuy -LN Tips-
Email: info@minefarmbuy.com PGP:1A1C A4D4 CE04 F57E 1C0C 5240 592A 09BF CCB4 F0C3
digital$
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 226
Merit: 11


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 06:04:18 PM
 #31

my limited understanding is these units are rated 220-240V ?  im also running 240V here in South Africa
OgNasty
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3094
Merit: 1735


I 💚 Bitcoin


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 06:30:07 PM
 #32

My s15 does 27th at 1555 watts using a regulated 220 volt transformer.

So same psu pulling 1555 watts say 36 a th = damn!

The idea of ordering in two months and getting it in four months has me thinking I can not upgrade to m10s.

But the freaking trump tax is a mofo.

That s17 does seem like a bit of a game changer.  Would be great if they didn't force us to buy crappy PSUs along with them.

philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1972



View Profile
February 19, 2019, 09:24:37 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2019, 12:20:06 AM by frodocooper
 #33

okay we (not me but some bitcointalk members) have had a few psu's die on 240 volt setups and not on the 220 volt setup's

I ran a thread for reports on the s15's reliability and only 2 maybe 3 psu's died.

I found this item which should do 2 s15's safely  as it really does keep volts very close to 220volts.

but it is woefully wired (14 gauge) and I can only recommend running 1 s15.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norstar-5000-Watt-Step-UP-and-Down-Voltatge-Regulator-Transformer-Converter/332955089461?

I ordered this one which may also do only 1 s15 but is cheaper

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Norstar-4000-Watt-Step-Up-and-Down-Voltage-Transformer-with-Voltage-Regulator/332607784072?

my hope would be it has 12 gauge wires and can really do 2 s15's  if it can do that it would be decent gear.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
minefarmbuy
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 602
Merit: 149


We are not retail.


View Profile WWW
February 19, 2019, 09:39:21 PM
 #34

I would be cautious to order till bitmain delivers a psu that performs but yes precautions are needed thanks to great insights by philip and others reporting issues. We tend to recommend a conservative approach regardless. If you're going to make hardware with an inclusive psu you better stand by the entire unit.

US power generally is crap and if you don't have better you can't run these and if you're running lines your running probably going to 240v.

Premier asic sourcing minefarmbuy.com #mineon
Twitter:@minefarmbuy -LN Tips-
Email: info@minefarmbuy.com PGP:1A1C A4D4 CE04 F57E 1C0C 5240 592A 09BF CCB4 F0C3
fanatic26_
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 294
Merit: 123


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 09:53:45 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2019, 12:20:57 AM by frodocooper
 #35

US power generally is crap and if you don't have better you can't run these and if you're running lines your running probably going to 240v.

I am a bit confused by this statement. There is nothing wrong with power in the US, other than the prices in some places.

Also 240v is rather rare in US households, you are normally getting 220v with the appropriate breaker to double up the 110v lines. I was unaware you could even get 240v to the home as i have never seen it anywhere but commercial buildings that had their own switch gear...

Also from what im reading the only people blowing up PSUs have 240v, which just like any other power can vary and spike. I can't be too upset about a piece of equipment blowing up when I knowingly run it outside of its rated capabilities.
mikeywith
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 588
Merit: 1490


be constructive or S.T.F.U


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 10:14:58 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2019, 12:22:51 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (3)
 #36

I hate to be the person that have to tell you this, sorry !

these new coupons you got have a few certain funny rules that you need to be aware of.

1- if bitcoin price go 1 cent above 4445$ those coupons will automatically expire.

2- each coupon is specified to work on a certain miner and here they are.

  160$    > only for S11
  250$    > only for T15
  340$    > only for S15

the problem is this, they will only be available on 26th Feb to 31th March, so you can't use them now, and you have to pray that BTC price doesn't move up from here anymore.

however only the 190$ that were distributed prior to today's coupons don't have those restrictions.

sidehack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2240
Merit: 1505

Curmudgeonly hardware guy


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 10:21:22 PM
 #37

240V isn't that uncommon. My shop's 120V runs a bit high (122 or so, unloaded) but I've got three-phase so my line-line is nominally 208V but typically meters out at around 212V. That'd get me about 245V if I had the same transformers at the pole in a split single phase.

Good to know about the 240V PSU issues, good to know that issue shouldn't pop up here because I might be hosting some S15s soon.

Coupons are only good on exactly one day? That seems pretty stupid. They're gonna be inundated with orders.

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
Currently in development - 200+GH USB stick; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
mikeywith
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Activity: 588
Merit: 1490


be constructive or S.T.F.U


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 10:36:31 PM
 #38

Coupons are only good on exactly one day? That seems pretty stupid. They're gonna be inundated with orders.

nop, 26th Feb till 31th march , provided bitcoin price is bellow 4445$

sidehack
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2240
Merit: 1505

Curmudgeonly hardware guy


View Profile
February 19, 2019, 10:41:18 PM
 #39

the problem is this, they will only be available on 26th Feb

Might want to clarify this sentence a bit then.

*ahem* So, how 'bout them S17 eh? Honestly I've been so busy around the shop the last few months I haven't even looked at an S15 yet, or frankly much of anything else this generation. Really need to take some time and catch up on what's coming out.

Cool, quiet and up to 1TH pod miner, on sale now!
Currently in development - 200+GH USB stick; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
philipma1957
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2646
Merit: 1972



View Profile
February 20, 2019, 01:00:55 AM
 #40

240V isn't that uncommon. My shop's 120V runs a bit high (122 or so, unloaded) but I've got three-phase so my line-line is nominally 208V but typically meters out at around 212V. That'd get me about 245V if I had the same transformers at the pole in a split single phase.

Good to know about the 240V PSU issues, good to know that issue shouldn't pop up here because I might be hosting some S15s soon.

Coupons are only good on exactly one day? That seems pretty stupid. They're gonna be inundated with orders.

yeah I run  121 or 122 on the two legs that come to my home.

they go to 243  which mostly varies lower with load.

 But I have seen it spike to 245 246 247

and my meter that shows the high voltage for the month has climbed to 251 but I never did see it just read it.

My garage /home setup no longer makes money and is used to test and setup gear for the solar arrays.  Since  I know I can spike and do not want to kill off an s15 I am trying to do some transformer testing  and get more reports if the psu has an issue past 240  or not.

the array in clifton is doing 228 volts loaded heavy (55kwatt of 90kwatt available)

IF I REALLY NEED THE  transformers the s15 and the s17 are not that good for me.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!