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Author Topic: LNchat.org - dedicated LN community site with various built-in LN functionality  (Read 319 times)
BitCryptex
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February 18, 2019, 11:02:46 PM
Last edit: March 09, 2019, 10:09:47 AM by BitCryptex
Merited by Carlton Banks (4), suchmoon (3), JayJuanGee (1), buwaytress (1)
 #1


I would like to present you an idea with which I and Zand_ came up while we were solving his Lightning Network node problems. We would like to create a place where people could easily discuss Lightning Network related problems and projects. Some tutorials are out-of-date which makes it even more difficult to start using the Lightning Network. We would like to fix that by rewriting and keeping them in one place. I have already made two long threads on bitcointalk (Basics of the Lightning Network and The Lightning Network FAQ) which I believe helped quite a few people to understand what it is all about.

We would like to encourage people to use the Lightning Network by introducing a small fee for adding a new thread or post. There would be a section excluded from this rule for inexperienced users where they could describe a problem which makes it impossible for them to pay the fee. We would like to implement a system similar to the merit on bitcointalk. It would be great to see people thanking each other by sending a few satoshis. We are aware that some people won't be able to generate the invoice at specific time so we will handle it instead and pay out the reward on demand.

We would appreciate if you could answer a couple of our questions.

1) Which forum software would you prefer? Invision Community or Discourse?

2) Do you like the idea of paying a small fee (e.g. 1 satoshi) for making a post?

3) What do you think is an appropriate cost for posting a thread vs a comment?

4) What other functionality would you like to see in the site?

5) What features do you think could be added to further incentivize use of the site?

6) Which name do you prefer? lnchat.org or lightningchat.org? Both domains have been already bought by us

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JayJuanGee
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February 19, 2019, 06:29:56 PM
 #2


I would like to present you an idea with which I and Zand_ came up while we were solving his Lightning Network node problems. We would like to create a place where people could easily discuss Lightning Network related problems and projects. Some tutorials are out-of-date which makes it even more difficult to start using the Lightning Network. We would like to fix that by rewriting and keeping them in one place. I have already made two long threads on bitcointalk (Basics of the Lightning Network and The Lightning Network FAQ) which I believe helped quite a few people to understand what it is all about.

We would like to encourage people to use the Lightning Network by introducing a small fee for adding a new thread or post. There would be a section excluded from this rule for inexperienced users where they could describe a problem which makes it impossible for them to pay the fee. We would like to implement a system similar to the merit on bitcointalk. It would be great to see people thanking each other by sending a few satoshis. We are aware that some people won't be able to generate the invoice at specific time so we will handle it instead and pay out the reward on demand.

We would appreciate if you could answer a couple of our questions.

1) Which forum software would you prefer? Invision Community or Discourse?

2) Do you like the idea of paying a small fee (e.g. 1 satoshi) for making a post?

3) What do you think is an appropriate cost for posting a thread vs a comment?

4) What other functionality would you like to see in the site?

5) What features do you think could be added to further incentivize use of the site?

6) Which name do you prefer? lnchat.org or lightningchat.org? Both domains have been already bought by us

Regarding the usage of lightning network for chat payments, isn't twitter going to be attempting a similar kind of experiment, potentially on a much larger scale and of course with a lot of folks who have the ability to use such lightning system and initially have no clue about either bitcoin or lightning for that matter?

https://www.coindesk.com/you-can-now-send-bitcoin-tips-over-lightning-on-twitter

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
BitCryptex
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February 19, 2019, 07:51:40 PM
 #3

Regarding the usage of lightning network for chat payments, isn't twitter going to be attempting a similar kind of experiment, potentially on a much larger scale and of course with a lot of folks who have the ability to use such lightning system and initially have no clue about either bitcoin or lightning for that matter?

https://www.coindesk.com/you-can-now-send-bitcoin-tips-over-lightning-on-twitter

It is a private project which requires users to install a Chrome extension. It allows users to tip others - similar to what we would like to introduce on LNchat. It won't affect one's ability to tweet unlike our idea of how posts and threads would have to be paid for.

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February 21, 2019, 03:49:21 PM
 #4

Shoot me if this is a stupid question, but this will only be for Bitcoin community using LN or LN itself? Not that it isn't tough enough figuring it out with Bitcoin, nor will the restriction prevent other networks (see this forum). Maybe it doesn't matter?

1) Invision but only because am familiar with that. I do find bb and SM to feel much lighter though. Tapatalk looks very nice and itself seems to be considering SOME form of tipping with crypto, among other schemes. Wonder if they considered or are considering LN (sorry if out of topic).

2) Neutral. I'd pay but not sure who else would. People might want to understand why though. Not the cost, just the principle. Explain it well and then I'm sure it's not an issue.

3) Is it possible to Pay What You Want?

4) Maybe ask volunteers to share live setup details for nodes. Then it's just copy and go for most people?

5) Same as 4 maybe.

6) lnchat

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February 22, 2019, 04:54:07 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5

Shoot me if this is a stupid question, but this will only be for Bitcoin community using LN or LN itself? Not that it isn't tough enough figuring it out with Bitcoin, nor will the restriction prevent other networks (see this forum). Maybe it doesn't matter?

1) Invision but only because am familiar with that. I do find bb and SM to feel much lighter though. Tapatalk looks very nice and itself seems to be considering SOME form of tipping with crypto, among other schemes. Wonder if they considered or are considering LN (sorry if out of topic).

2) Neutral. I'd pay but not sure who else would. People might want to understand why though. Not the cost, just the principle. Explain it well and then I'm sure it's not an issue.

3) Is it possible to Pay What You Want?

4) Maybe ask volunteers to share live setup details for nodes. Then it's just copy and go for most people?

5) Same as 4 maybe.

6) lnchat

Appreciate the feedback. The forum will be primarily geared towards the Bitcoin LN, but if there's enough interest we could eventually add sub-forums for altcoins utilizing LN (such as Litecoin, Stellar, etc...)

To answer your question on why would anyone want to pay to post on a message board. There are a couple answers to this and some of it we're still thinking through.

1) I think a lot of people find it fun, and the cost will likely be negligible for most people (we're talking a couple of satoshis, which is a fraction of a penny).

2) It could be a good way to help fund the monthly cost/upkeep of the site instead of relying on ad revenue (right now we're not at this stage and plan on absorbing all cost associated with running the site)

3) I've been considering the idea of having a pool/jackpot ticker at the top of the site displaying how many satoshis have been spent over the last day/week/month (not sure what the exact time frame will be). We would then randomly award a user on the forum with the total jackpot using a provably fair method at regular intervals (again not sure on exact timeframe). I think this would be a fun incentive and promote more user activity.

As far as your response to questions 4 and 5, I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Do you mind expanding on that?
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March 19, 2019, 04:25:31 PM
 #6

Just a quick update. We decided to purchase a license for IPB and have laid the foundation for the message board itself. We are now looking for contributors/freelancers to help integrate invoicing into the site. If anyone would be interested in helping out please reach out to either myself or BitCryptex. Thank you!
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March 19, 2019, 04:56:42 PM
 #7

Just a quick update. We decided to purchase a license for IPB and have laid the foundation for the message board itself. We are now looking for contributors/freelancers to help integrate invoicing into the site. If anyone would be interested in helping out please reach out to either myself or BitCryptex. Thank you!
In case u have not made a payment yet, u could try https://www.discourse.org/

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March 19, 2019, 08:51:24 PM
 #8

Just a quick update. We decided to purchase a license for IPB and have laid the foundation for the message board itself. We are now looking for contributors/freelancers to help integrate invoicing into the site. If anyone would be interested in helping out please reach out to either myself or BitCryptex. Thank you!
In case u have not made a payment yet, u could try https://www.discourse.org/

We considered Discourse but ultimately decided to go with IPB for practical reasons. That could always change though.
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March 20, 2019, 08:36:42 PM
 #9

I'm just going to answer the question about whether I would pay a fee for making a post, since the other questions really aren't in my area of expertise.
I personally would not be opposed to paying a low fee for making posts or threads, especially if we're talking about something like 1 satoshi.

As for the price difference between posts and threads, I think the price of making a thread should be 2 or 3 times as much as making a post.

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March 21, 2019, 10:10:20 AM
 #10

3) What do you think is an appropriate cost for posting a thread vs a comment?

Very small initially would be best....


5) What features do you think could be added to further incentivize use of the site?

I think you should use the post fees to encourage community determined quality (i.e. try to foster the type of people you want there at the start, then structure a fee schedule so that positive and negative feedback loops drive behaviour)

Some possibilities:

1. Consider making the fees a bond; people recieve some or all of their money back after some condition/s has been met (you can do this pragrammatically using bitcoin script IIRC)
     a. Users could maybe receive back bonded payments to the forum according to how much they receive in tips from others
     b. An "Account opening bond" could be set high to disincentive ban evasion, which is lost when a user is banned
     c. Set a minimum "Account open" bond, but make it possible, and publicly provable, to submit a bond higher than the minimum
  
2. Tier payments based on forum status
3. Make a status level beyond which high status users receive some proportion of the fees paid by low status users. Persistent bad actors would end up paying good actors so that they can behave badly
4. Make it reasonably easy to understand the system

Above all, moderators need to be knowledgable & fair. People won't join if they don't trust the management.


6) Which name do you prefer? lnchat.org or lightningchat.org? Both domains have been already bought by us

Neither, those names are appropriate for this custom forum software you are developing, not for an instance of a site using that tech.

I would suggest adding to your mission statement, as Lightning tech itself will eventually become too niche and esoteric as it becomes increasingly extensive, and as that enxtense is abstracted away from lightning users. Doing something that sets the pace against other bitcoin forums would have more longevity and wider appeal.

 

Vires in numeris
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March 26, 2019, 09:51:23 PM
 #11

3) What do you think is an appropriate cost for posting a thread vs a comment?

Very small initially would be best....


5) What features do you think could be added to further incentivize use of the site?

I think you should use the post fees to encourage community determined quality (i.e. try to foster the type of people you want there at the start, then structure a fee schedule so that positive and negative feedback loops drive behaviour)

Some possibilities:

1. Consider making the fees a bond; people recieve some or all of their money back after some condition/s has been met (you can do this pragrammatically using bitcoin script IIRC)
     a. Users could maybe receive back bonded payments to the forum according to how much they receive in tips from others
     b. An "Account opening bond" could be set high to disincentive ban evasion, which is lost when a user is banned
     c. Set a minimum "Account open" bond, but make it possible, and publicly provable, to submit a bond higher than the minimum
  
2. Tier payments based on forum status
3. Make a status level beyond which high status users receive some proportion of the fees paid by low status users. Persistent bad actors would end up paying good actors so that they can behave badly
4. Make it reasonably easy to understand the system

Above all, moderators need to be knowledgable & fair. People won't join if they don't trust the management.


6) Which name do you prefer? lnchat.org or lightningchat.org? Both domains have been already bought by us

Neither, those names are appropriate for this custom forum software you are developing, not for an instance of a site using that tech.

I would suggest adding to your mission statement, as Lightning tech itself will eventually become too niche and esoteric as it becomes increasingly extensive, and as that enxtense is abstracted away from lightning users. Doing something that sets the pace against other bitcoin forums would have more longevity and wider appeal.

 

Appreciate the feedback. You definitely bring up some interesting points but most of this would probably have to implemented sometime down the road (particularly the bonded payments, don't fully understand what you mean there so maybe you could elaborate on that a bit). We first want to get the site up and running with some of the more basic features (invoicing for posts/comments, merit based tipping system, etc). Your 2nd and 3rd idea are excellent and probably wouldn't be too difficult to incorporate.

As far as the name goes, I get what you're saying, but at this time we're not trying to brand this as a custom software that will be sold or licensed out (even though I think there is a lot of potential once the network matures and adoption grows). For now it's just a fun project to get like minded individuals together and to be able to test out LN capabilities in a message board environment.
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March 27, 2019, 10:21:42 AM
 #12

(particularly the bonded payments, don't fully understand what you mean there so maybe you could elaborate on that a bit). We first want to get the site up and running with some of the more basic features (invoicing for posts/comments, merit based tipping system, etc).

Pre BIP: Solving for spam and other abuse with an HTLB - Alistair Mann I think one of the replies in the thread suggests how lightning could be used, IIUC


I would suggest coming up with a comprehensive incentive scheme in case the site becomes popular. If you make small but significant changes, users will complain and sour the goodwill towards your management no matter how you handle it. Or hope you stay small until you make any significant changes, but you may not feel like changes are justifiied if the site doesn't catch on.

Vires in numeris
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