Primedcie actually cheating

[ullikah]

I know this accusation has been made a few times and has been repelled as many times because the site owner has cleverly build him self a positive reputation on Bitcoin Talk.

However after playing on Primedice for a substantial while now I do accuse Primedice of cheating.
I do believe the cheating occurs on selected players and not generally on all players to make it look less obvious.

The owner, calling him self "advisor" goes "under cover" as "Partyboy04" and not with his actual account "EDWARD" on Primedice and spies on players tactics only to use that information against them in the Primedice dice engine which goes essentially against "provably fair" and can be seen as active cheating in game.
Usually the dice engine is then behaving apparently "as usual" for a while until the player makes a bet higher than X amount.
From that point on it is impossible for the player being cheated on to win any bet and even if it goes against all odds to still loose a bet.
This is even more interesting that this happens when the "advisor" was logged in as "Partyboy04" on Primedice.

Cheated me out of coins several times now within the last couple of years by, I suspect, very likely monitoring my game and manipulating the dice results directly live in game from a back-end login.
Also I do not believe that the provably fair test on dicesites is neutral since I have seen deviations with results using the calculation script on my Xampp local host.
At this point its open to speculation whether the dicesites server my exchange database information with casino servers or not.
I have a whole collection of screenshots to show for this by now as I started keeping track of occurrences, also in some cases by the means of recording sessions with OBS.
Unfortunately I do not have an upload or attach image option for this post to present some examples otherwise I would.

I am aware that my accusations will be put down as false and no such thing is happening however I would not have any reason to claim being cheated on on Primedice if it wouldn't have happened more than just once.

[TheNewAnon135246]

Please show 1 example where the Primedice engine is cheating. You can upload screenshots on https://imgur.com and post the links.

[ullikah]

Doesn't look this unusual? Maybe you'd like to calculate the odds of that your self.

Also these kind of dice results actually came twice with 2500 bets total after changing seeds.

http://root.1basisweb.com/privat/Primedice-cheating-2.png

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DASG8uq6FnALjUlA_7EIs4_CMeqeyGTT/view?usp=sharing - Copy on google drive
(let see if this will also be censored "for security reasons")

[s0lidus]

Doesn't look this unusual? Maybe you'd like to calculate the odds of that your self.

Also these kind of dice results actually came twice with 2500 bets total after changing seeds.

Lol, you should have placed x10 payout bets instead and roll low. All I see in this screenshot is that you are extremely unlucky. This can't be considered as valid proof.


Anyway, if you're having doubts, why don't you change client seed manually everytime before you place bet?

[HCP]

Are you saying that it isn't possible for there to be that many rolls in a row under 10? I can assure you that the probability of that occurring, whilst "small", is definitely non-zero.

Did you check the client and server seeds and whether the provably fair results line up? Or is this just another "ZOMG the odds are so small, they must be cheating!!!!1!!1!1!!!!" type thread?

[ullikah]

Its funny. When I look at all your signatures of who has replied to my post.

You are probably all connected and no one of you wants to admit that there is an actual cheat going on here because that would mean that all of you would be affected.

I don't expect any other response from your kind.

Truth is a red streak of this kind has a chance of less then 10000000:1 occurring only once but if it happens twice within 2500 rolls in a seed it SCREAMS "cheat".
But then admitting to that would mean for you guys to having to question "provably fair" business, right?
That can't happen, no.
So crawl back into Edwards back side.

FYI I work in online marketing and I will soon start using my experience and collected materials and start a campaign that will cost a lot more than what he got from that cheating...
From an ordinary online casino I expect to be screwed over. they even tell you they will in there T&C's.
But from a "provably fair" dice I expect real random and fair play.

Also... No I'm not going to post all my evidence here. That would mean giving all my aces away and render them useless.

[HCP]

Its funny. When I look at all your signatures of who has replied to my post.

You are probably all connected and no one of you wants to admit that there is an actual cheat going on here because that would mean that all of you would be affected.

"connected"? ChipMixer isn't even in the Casino business... and the others are for non-Primedice casinos that would actually benefit if Primedice went out of business... so your logic is a bit flawed there.

Truth is a red streak of this kind has a chance of less then 10000000:1 occurring only once but if it happens twice within 2500 rolls in a seed it SCREAMS "cheat".

See, now you are introducing new claims... you never mentioned previously that this had happened twice within 2500 rolls, nor did you show any evidence to back up this new claim.

At best we have a screenshot that shows a sequence of 7 rolls less than 10. Not only can screenshots be doctored, but we have no way to know if the seeds remained the same throughout this sequence. Additionally, one streak calculator I found, calculated the probability of that streak appearing in 2500 events as 0.02%... which is 5000:1, which is quite small, but still a lot higher than 10,000,000:1. I guess it has a lot to do with how you are actually calculating the probability of a certain event occurring.

Hell, I had a sequence once, betting at 10% chance of win, where I got a losing streak of like 130+ !!?!   The largest win streak using those odds (which would be equivalent to your losing streak) was somewhere in the mid-10's... like 13 or 14 from memory... so I don't think 7 is a particularly outrageous loss streak at those odds.

But then admitting to that would mean for you guys to having to question "provably fair" business, right?
That can't happen, no.

One thing that can't be doctored is a properly implemented "provably fair" system. The maths involved in the hashing etc makes it impossible to cheat this system... However, if you can show some flaw in Primedice's "provably fair" system that would allow them to cheat... then I think the community as a whole would be VERY interested... and the website would lose all credibility.

Also... No I'm not going to post all my evidence here. That would mean giving all my aces away and render them useless.

That is your choice, but if you don't show us evidence there is no way for us to back your claims. Do you really expect anyone to take your side (regardless of their affiliations or "connections" or neutrality as the case may be) unless you show some concrete evidence to back up your claims? We are just supposed to believe your claims based on what you say and a screenshot?

While I'm sure you honestly consider it a scam, without some hard evidence, there is no way I, or anyone for that matter, can really corroborate or back your claims.

[suchmoon]

FYI I work in online marketing and I will soon start using my experience and collected materials and start a campaign that will cost a lot more than what he got from that cheating...

If you really had proof it would make far more sense to talk to a lawyer instead of posting vague threats. You're pretty much admitting that you're just an angry loser.

[marlboroza]

Primedice has this system:
Client seed + server seed + nonce. That is impossible to cheat unless they alter results.

These are bet ID's:

https://primedice.com/?iid=28824660593&modal=bet
https://primedice.com/?iid=28824676513&modal=bet

Client seed: BTC-AAT
Nonce(first bet): 2409
Nonce(second bet): 2410
Server seed(hashed), 1. bet: 61c155e32717a217d484078aef5a437e009ede025219a027d9d719cbe34cc6d8
Server seed(hashed), 2. bet: 61c155e32717a217d484078aef5a437e009ede025219a027d9d719cbe34cc6d8
(Logically the same)

Server seed is active. Change client seed to reveal server seed if you want someone to go trough this or lock thread.

[ullikah]

FYI I work in online marketing and I will soon start using my experience and collected materials and start a campaign that will cost a lot more than what he got from that cheating...

If you really had proof it would make far more sense to talk to a lawyer instead of posting vague threats. You're pretty much admitting that you're just an angry loser.

That's why Primedice is registered with in Curacao / Curacao Gaming Association.
You can register, for a respectable price, register your gambling business, no matter how dodgy because the legislation of Curacao permits it.
That essentially makes Primedice (and otheres) legally untouchable even if they would openly admit to cheating.
So yeah the only way is to publicly warn about them via a well planned online campain.

[ullikah]

Primedice has this system:
Client seed + server seed + nonce. That is impossible to cheat unless they alter results.

These are bet ID's:

https://primedice.com/?iid=28824660593&modal=bet
https://primedice.com/?iid=28824676513&modal=bet

Client seed: BTC-AAT
Nonce(first bet): 2409
Nonce(second bet): 2410
Server seed(hashed), 1. bet: 61c155e32717a217d484078aef5a437e009ede025219a027d9d719cbe34cc6d8
Server seed(hashed), 2. bet: 61c155e32717a217d484078aef5a437e009ede025219a027d9d719cbe34cc6d8
(Logically the same)

Server seed is active. Change client seed to reveal server seed if you want someone to go trough this or lock thread.

Exactly what I'm pointing at. You posting my bets here again where everyone can see them in my screenshoot anyways already doesn't make your defense of this any better. Also what is YOUR interest in insisting that there wasn't cheating going on again? You want to explain that?

There used to be an article about exactly like this on coingreed.com. My last information is that coingreed.com was pressured into taking that article off from their web site by someone. They didn't elaborate.
Looking at the technical side what you say about client seed and server seed and nonce is how it should be.
However the rolls are being pre-generated server side and stored in a database and used until the player changes seeds. Anyone with database access can change numbers server side in an blink of an eye.
The coingreed.com article explained in detail how it is possible to manipulate the active roll sequence in a way which makes the manipulation undetectable and the changed number sequence look like part of the pre-generated sequence. One may wonder why and how coingreed.com got pressured into taking that particular article down.

The ONLY way to prevent any cheating from happening is to have the dice numbers encrypted using server seed hash and client seed and a server seed associated secret key (also encrypted) and stored in the browser session and with every roll each number is being decrypted browser side with javascript/angularjs/reactjs using same information after requesting server seed associated secret key.
The client seed as well as the encrypted rolls never make it to the server but also cannot be decrypted without the encrypted server seed associated key which can only be decrypted server side.
Just means that all seeds and rolls become invalid on browser shut down or hard reload which destroys the session. This is not happening on any of the existing dice sites and that is why provably fair is actually a complete bullshit as long as admins can manipulate results server side.

[suchmoon]

~

What are you babbling about? Do what marlboroza said and post the server seed or verify the rolls yourself: https://primedice.com/verify/overview

[ullikah]

Its funny. When I look at all your signatures of who has replied to my post.

You are probably all connected and no one of you wants to admit that there is an actual cheat going on here because that would mean that all of you would be affected.

"connected"? ChipMixer isn't even in the Casino business... and the others are for non-Primedice casinos that would actually benefit if Primedice went out of business... so your logic is a bit flawed there.

Truth is a red streak of this kind has a chance of less then 10000000:1 occurring only once but if it happens twice within 2500 rolls in a seed it SCREAMS "cheat".

See, now you are introducing new claims... you never mentioned previously that this had happened twice within 2500 rolls, nor did you show any evidence to back up this new claim.

At best we have a screenshot that shows a sequence of 7 rolls less than 10. Not only can screenshots be doctored, but we have no way to know if the seeds remained the same throughout this sequence. Additionally, one streak calculator I found, calculated the probability of that streak appearing in 2500 events as 0.02%... which is 5000:1, which is quite small, but still a lot higher than 10,000,000:1. I guess it has a lot to do with how you are actually calculating the probability of a certain event occurring.

Hell, I had a sequence once, betting at 10% chance of win, where I got a losing streak of like 130+ !!?!   The largest win streak using those odds (which would be equivalent to your losing streak) was somewhere in the mid-10's... like 13 or 14 from memory... so I don't think 7 is a particularly outrageous loss streak at those odds.

But then admitting to that would mean for you guys to having to question "provably fair" business, right?
That can't happen, no.

One thing that can't be doctored is a properly implemented "provably fair" system. The maths involved in the hashing etc makes it impossible to cheat this system... However, if you can show some flaw in Primedice's "provably fair" system that would allow them to cheat... then I think the community as a whole would be VERY interested... and the website would lose all credibility.

Also... No I'm not going to post all my evidence here. That would mean giving all my aces away and render them useless.

That is your choice, but if you don't show us evidence there is no way for us to back your claims. Do you really expect anyone to take your side (regardless of their affiliations or "connections" or neutrality as the case may be) unless you show some concrete evidence to back up your claims? We are just supposed to believe your claims based on what you say and a screenshot?

While I'm sure you honestly consider it a scam, without some hard evidence, there is no way I, or anyone for that matter, can really corroborate or back your claims.

I don't think your logic of loosing competition applies. If there is proof of one provably fair dice gambling site cheating all would have a problem since they're all using the same scripts and get under suspicion so they obviously have no interest in this to come out.

[ullikah]

~

What are you babbling about? Do what marlboroza said and post the server seed or verify the rolls yourself: https://primedice.com/verify/overview

If you read it again, not cross reading but compete, you will notice in my reply that there is a way to cheat provably fair server side and make it look like everything was coherent even if it wasn't.
The seed will only print out the manipulated sequence. That's where the actual catch is in.
And I actually took the time to elaborate a coding solution to prevent any cheating from both sides.

You know what they say. There where is temptation someone will be tempted.

[suchmoon]

~

What are you babbling about? Do what marlboroza said and post the server seed or verify the rolls yourself: https://primedice.com/verify/overview

If you read it again, not cross reading but compete, you will notice in my reply that there is a way to cheat provably fair server side and make it look like everything was coherent even if it wasn't.
The seed will only print out the manipulated sequence. That's where the actual catch is in.
And I actually took the time to elaborate a coding solution to prevent any cheating from both sides.

You know what they say. There where is temptation someone will be tempted.

Doesn't make sense but feel free to post the seed and show how the rolls have been "manipulated".

[marlboroza]

Exactly what I'm pointing at. You posting my bets here again where everyone can see them in my screenshoot anyways already doesn't make your defense of this any better.

You are not pointing anything, you are ranting in scam accusation without showing any kind of proofs. So either reveal server seed so we can check bets or move this to gambling discussion where you will be able to discuss how you were unlucky. I am pretty sure you will find lots users who will tell you "I am sorry for your lost, gamble only what you can afford to lose and you will be fine".

[ullikah]

Exactly what I'm pointing at. You posting my bets here again where everyone can see them in my screenshoot anyways already doesn't make your defense of this any better.

You are not pointing anything, you are ranting in scam accusation without showing any kind of proofs. So either reveal server seed so we can check bets or move this to gambling discussion where you will be able to discuss how you were unlucky. I am pretty sure you will find lots users who will tell you "I am sorry for your lost, gamble only what you can afford to lose and you will be fine".

@suchmoon
@marlboroza
Goes for goth of you:

1. If you can actually READ you gain a distinct advantage!!!
It seams you either don't read properly, or you don't understand what I'm saying or you have chosen to just ignore what I'm saying.

Maybe I make it bit more Clear here in a language you'll be able to grasp:
THE SERVER SEED WILL GIVE YOU THE MANIPULATED RESULTS! ITS HOW THEY COVER UP THE CHEAT!
Unless you can code PHP/javascript your self and replicate the original generation process and you remembered to copy the original server seed hash before you started the first bet you only get the already manipulated dice rolls.
The server seed hash is a SHA256, even when generated with lets say Perl or C# instead of PHP already gives a different result.

[marlboroza]

It seams you either don't read properly, or you don't understand what I'm saying or you have chosen to just ignore what I'm saying.

I don't think anyone does. Primedice has its own verification process and you should stick to it.

You don't want to show anything because of some strange unknown reason and I don't see any reason to continue this conversation.

[ullikah]

It seams you either don't read properly, or you don't understand what I'm saying or you have chosen to just ignore what I'm saying.

I don't think anyone does. Primedice has its own verification process and you should stick to it.

You don't want to show anything because of some strange unknown reason and I don't see any reason to continue this conversation.

You're right. Nobody seems to read properly anymore.
Also, when I get you right you're basically just saying "stick to the verification process of the cheater" because it so much more trustworthy.

It really is a pity that the article that used to be on coingreed.com isn't available anymore because than you could read the same from someone other than me.

[ullikah]

Also I 'd loke to add that it bewilders me that nobody seems to be bothered about the owner of Primedice going undercover with at least one alias to spy on players and ask them out about their tactics and strategies with the result that soon after those strategies stop working.

Just to curb some peoples expectations. the "let it pass it will go away" and the "just sitting it out" approach doesn't work with me. I will get louder.